*Official* Marantz 2016 NR-1607, SR-5011/6011/7011 owner's thread - Page 79 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2341 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Bass is passed from the speakers to the sub by setting them to SMALL/80Hz with the crossover (ie. 80Hz) determining at what frequency the audio is crossed over to the sub. First run Audyssey to determine a proper crossover level and then for any speakers that are set to LARGE, reset them to SMALL and for any crossovers set <80Hz, reset the crossover to 80Hz, leaving any set >80Hz alone.

Hi JD


why is this 80 Hz so "important" ?
When i set my front speakers and center to small after Audyssey, i will get 40 Hz.
I have now a subwoofer in the setup and still my fronts and center are set to large after the run.
Even the sub could do 18 Hz, speakers are set to large.


But why the 80, and not 60 or 40 Hz ?


Thanks.
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post #2342 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Hi JD


why is this 80 Hz so "important" ?
When i set my front speakers and center to small after Audyssey, i will get 40 Hz.
I have now a subwoofer in the setup and still my fronts and center are set to large after the run.
Even the sub could do 18 Hz, speakers are set to large.


But why the 80, and not 60 or 40 Hz ?


Thanks.
You can use whatever crossover you prefer but THX industry standard is 80Hz and an easier suggested go to setting rather than an owner having to fuss with trying other crossover values. The AVR/AVP will set any speaker that is capable of going <50Hz to LARGE, which then is suggested to be reset to SMALL/80Hz in Manual Setup.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...crossover.html
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post #2343 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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I was under the impression that with my setup like this (and configured this way in my AVR), that I was getting ATMOS ceiling/upward firing channel info sent to these front and rear heights.



Doing some reading today and realizing that this might not be the case. So, my questions are first, can you tell me if this setup is having ATMOS discrete channel info being sent to front height and rear height? If not, what exactly is happening when I am watching atmos and AVR says atmos is playing back?
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| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #2344 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 09:24 AM
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Hey guys I currently have the SR6011, I'm thinking of upgrading to either the AV7703 or the AV8802A both are certified refurbished. I've never owned anything of this magnitude when it comes to audio and video processing so I'm getting into unknown territory here. What will I gain with quality of audio and and video quality?
My setup is in my signature line for reference.

Thanks in advance...

Sony 65" A1E | Samsung 55" UH8500
Marantz SR6011 AVR l Martin Logan motion 40's, motion 30, and motion 15 rears, Martin Logan AFX Atmos speakers atop the front L&R
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post #2345 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I was under the impression that with my setup like this (and configured this way in my AVR), that I was getting ATMOS ceiling/upward firing channel info sent to these front and rear heights.
Height speakers do get overhead audio. It's just that Atmos soundtracks tend to sound better if the overhead speakers are configured as "Top Front" and "Top Rear" nstead of "Front Height" and "Rear Height" while DTS:X soundtracks are the opposite. However this difference is most apparent when playing the two companies' demo tracks and not so much with real movie soundtracks.

Quote:

Doing some reading today and realizing that this might not be the case. So, my questions are first, can you tell me if this setup is having ATMOS discrete channel info being sent to front height and rear height? If not, what exactly is happening when I am watching atmos and AVR says atmos is playing back?
If the Info display claims to be detecting an Atmos soundtrack on the left (input) side and all of your speaker channels are illuminated on the right (output) side, then all is fine. Unfortunately, many Atmos movies simply don't use the overheads as much as enthusiasts would like.

If you haven't already, you should download and play the test and demo soundtracks which are available on the Dolby Web site at https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html

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post #2346 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Height speakers do get overhead audio. It's just that Atmos soundtracks tend to sound better if the overhead speakers are configured as "Top Front" and "Top Rear" nstead of "Front Height" and "Rear Height" while DTS:X soundtracks are the opposite. However this difference is most apparent when playing the two companies' demo tracks and not so much with real movie soundtracks.



If the Info display claims to be detecting an Atmos soundtrack on the left (input) side and all of your speaker channels are illuminated on the right (output) side, then all is fine. Unfortunately, many Atmos movies simply don't use the overheads as much as enthusiasts would like.

If you haven't already, you should download and play the test and demo soundtracks which are available on the Dolby Web site at https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
Thanks for your response. During Atmos Blu-ray playback the receiver does, in fact say ATMOS as input and all 9.2 speakers are illuminated gold/brown on the right side. So I guess it is working as designed at least from a "sound is being output" point of view. You are saying that what normally would be sent to Top Front and Top Rear will be sent to Front Height and Rear Height respectively in my setup, but not exactly the same as when the AVR is actually setup for Top Front and Top Rear?

Do you know what the AVR would be doing to those channels' signals when setup as Front and Rear Height? How might it sound different? I suppose setting my system up to Top Front and Top Rear is possible, but given that the AVR has a Front and Rear Height option, it would seem to me that they've optimized something for that setup and I should probably use it?


I'd love to see something which explains what happens to which types of signal based on all the various types of amp assignments. A crosstab would be great.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #2347 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Thanks for your response. During Atmos Blu-ray playback the receiver does, in fact say ATMOS as input and all 9.2 speakers are illuminated gold/brown on the right side. So I guess it is working as designed at least from a "sound is being output" point of view. You are saying that what normally would be sent to Top Front and Top Rear will be sent to Front Height and Rear Height respectively in my setup, but not exactly the same as when the AVR is actually setup for Top Front and Top Rear?
Correct.

Quote:
Do you know what the AVR would be doing to those channels' signals when setup as Front and Rear Height? How might it sound different? I suppose setting my system up to Top Front and Top Rear is possible, but given that the AVR has a Front and Rear Height option, it would seem to me that they've optimized something for that setup and I should probably use it?
Atmos soundtracks include "audio objects" which are not associated with specific speaker channels. The Atmos decoder decides how those objects get distributed among your physical speakers so that sounds seem to be coming from appropriate directions. Although home Atmos soundtracks do include "channels" for the 7 ear-level speakers, sounds coming from overhead are provided entirely as objects.

Dolby's Atmos test soundtracks might be somewhat misleading, since they seem to have positioned the overhead objects in locations which explicitly correspond to the locations of the "Top" category of speakers.

Quote:

I'd love to see something which explains what happens to which types of signal based on all the various types of amp assignments. A crosstab would be great.
I dunno what you mean by a "crosstab". At any rate, if you haven't already, you should take a look at Dolby's official document Dolby Atmos Home Theater Installation Guidelines

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post #2348 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Correct.

Atmos soundtracks include "audio objects" which are not associated with specific speaker channels. The Atmos decoder decides how those objects get distributed among your physical speakers so that sounds seem to be coming from appropriate directions. Although home Atmos soundtracks do include "channels" for the 7 ear-level speakers, sounds coming from overhead are provided entirely as objects.

Dolby's Atmos test soundtracks might be somewhat misleading, since they seem to have positioned the overhead objects in locations which explicitly correspond to the locations of the "Top" category of speakers.

I dunno what you mean by a "crosstab". At any rate, if you haven't already, you should take a look at Dolby's official document Dolby Atmos Home Theater Installation Guidelines
Will do and thanks again. I did know that about object based audio and guess I never put the two together. It would make sense that the speaker outputs the sound slightly differently given the speaker positions (and likely types) in different positions. Anyways - I'm looking to add a set of true in ceiling atmos speakers to the 9.2/5.2.4 setup I have now (not sure what it is considered). Guess it would wind up being 9.2.2?
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| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #2349 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Will do and thanks again. I did know that about object based audio and guess I never put the two together. It would make sense that the speaker outputs the sound slightly differently given the speaker positions (and likely types) in different positions. Anyways - I'm looking to add a set of true in ceiling atmos speakers to the 9.2/5.2.4 setup I have now (not sure what it is considered). Guess it would wind up being 9.2.2?
Atmos only supports a maximum of 4 overhead speakers, whether they're Height or Top. If you already have 4 Height speakers, then you're at the max. You can redesignate them at "Top" if you want, though, without actually moving them. If you do go with 4 in-ceiling speakers (usually put at +/- 45 degrees), those would be four Top speakers (Two Top Front and two Top Rear).

2016 equipment models supported a maximum of 7 speakers at ear level. (Height speakers are overheads, not ear-level.) With 4 overheads, Dolby calls that a 7.1.4 speaker configuration. They don't count the number of subwoofers, which does seem inconsistent. they use .1. to indicate the single LFE channel in the soundtrack. 2014 and 2015 models supported the ear-level Front Wide speaker positions for a total of 9 at ear level (9.1.2). It is still unknown if the high-end 2017 models will provide Front Wides, although there are rumors that they might.
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post #2350 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 01:35 PM
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Atmos only supports a maximum of 4 overhead speakers, whether they're Height or Top. If you already have 4 Height speakers, then you're at the max. You can redesignate them at "Top" if you want, though, without actually moving them. If you do go with 4 in-ceiling speakers (usually put at +/- 45 degrees), those would be four Top speakers (Two Top Front and two Top Rear).

2016 equipment models supported a maximum of 7 speakers at ear level. (Height speakers are overheads, not ear-level.) With 4 overheads, Dolby calls that a 7.1.4 speaker configuration. They don't count the number of subwoofers, which does seem inconsistent. they use .1. to indicate the single LFE channel in the soundtrack. 2014 and 2015 models supported the ear-level Front Wide speaker positions for a total of 9 at ear level (9.1.2). It is still unknown if the high-end 2017 models will provide Front Wides, although there are rumors that they might.
Got it - so what I would likely do is move the rear heights to the surround back channel and the atmos which will be directly above the MLP couch as the Top Rear. Does that make sense? So I would get back a 7.1 ear listening system (since I have a 5.1 as of now), with the 4 "overheads" being front heights and top rears. Is that possible?

While we're on the topic I have another related question. If I play a bluray with a 7.1 track with my current setup, how will the discrete 7.1 channels be played back over my 5.2.4 setup? Does it know to play the surround back discrete channel info from the rear heights and then matrix in the front heights like something similar to dolby digital PLIIz?

I'll be honest, I thought I had this all figured out with the older VSX-44 I had. I'm much more confused now with the SR-6011 and Dolby Surround than when my old AVR was able to tell me if I was using PLIIz or PLIIx. I knew exactly which speakers were doing what (discrete vs matrixed sound) based on the input and my own playback choice in that AVR. I know the SR-6011 is a much better AVR, just having trouble understanding what's happening in different situations.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #2351 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 01:39 PM
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Hi all,

I've just purchased SR5011 and I'm playing with configuring it now. I've connected my IPTV (1080p output) and Xbox One S (4k output).
Yet whatever i do, my Marantz unit only outputs 4k:25hz video, insted of 50hz or 60hz... Any ideas what settings i should change to get proper hz for it? After watching 4k 50hz videos on TV, i cant stand looking at low quality 25hz
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post #2352 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Got it - so what I would likely do is move the rear heights to the surround back channel and the atmos which will be directly above the MLP couch as the Top Rear. Does that make sense? So I would get back a 7.1 ear listening system (since I have a 5.1 as of now), with the 4 "overheads" being front heights and top rears. Is that possible?
Yes.

Quote:
While we're on the topic I have another related question. If I play a bluray with a 7.1 track with my current setup, how will the discrete 7.1 channels be played back over my 5.2.4 setup?
That depends.

The Movie, Music and Game buttons on the remote each generate a popup menu which lets you choose whether to play the soundtrack "as is" (using just ear-level speakers) or to apply an upmixer (Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X) or a "downmixer" (Stereo, All Zone Stereo, etc). The upmixers will expand the audio to use all of your speakers including the overheads. Stereo would use only the front main pair of speakers (plus the subwoofer if you've set the front speakers to be "Small".)

The button names are just names. They don't really imply anything about the type of soundtrack you're listening to. They're just a way to provide three alternative setup options. They do remember which sound mode you chose last for each specific input, though, so a single brief press will recall the most recent setting of that button for that input.

Quote:
Does it know to play the surround back discrete channel info from the rear heights and then matrix in the front heights like something similar to dolby digital PLIIz?
If you don't enable one of the upmixers, a 7.1 soundtrack (which provides audio only for ear-level speakers) would have its Rear Surround channels downmixed into the 5.2.4's (Side) Surround ear-level channels. The overheads would not be used at all.

If you do enable one of the upmixers, either Dolby Surround or DTS Nerual:X, the receiver will try to use all of your speakers. Their exact algorithms are trade secrets, but they are known to use phase, amplitude and frequency information to produce their results. They do seem to have some similarities to the older ProLogic and DTS Neo:X algorithms. For example, if your player device provides a "dual mono" signal (identical audio in both channels of a stereo signal so both have identical phases), Dolby Surround will cause sound to come from only the center speaker. Many people are quite unhappy that the soundfield controls provided with the various flavors of ProLogic are not available for Dolby Surround.

Quote:
I'll be honest, I thought I had this all figured out with the older VSX-44 I had. I'm much more confused now with the SR-6011 and Dolby Surround than when my old AVR was able to tell me if I was using PLIIz or PLIIx. I knew exactly which speakers were doing what (discrete vs matrixed sound) based on the input and my own playback choice in that AVR. I know the SR-6011 is a much better AVR, just having trouble understanding what's happening in different situations.
The manufacturers keep adding more and more features in order to help justify higher prices for their higher end devices. Usability doesn't always seem to be a priority, though.
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post #2353 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 02:12 PM
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Yes.



That depends.

The Movie, Music and Game buttons on the remote each generate a popup menu which lets you choose whether to play the soundtrack "as is" (using just ear-level speakers) or to apply an upmixer (Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X) or a "downmixer" (Stereo, All Zone Stereo, etc). The upmixers will expand the audio to use all of your speakers including the overheads. Stereo would use only the front main pair of speakers (plus the subwoofer if you've set the front speakers to be "Small".)

The button names are just names. They don't really imply anything about the type of soundtrack you're listening to. They're just a way to provide three alternative setup options. They do remember which sound mode you chose last for each specific input, though, so a single brief press will recall the most recent setting of that button for that input.

If you don't enable one of the upmixers, a 7.1 soundtrack (which provides audio only for ear-level speakers) would have its Rear Surround channels downmixed into the 5.2.4's (Side) Surround ear-level channels. The overheads would not be used at all.

If you do enable one of the upmixers, either Dolby Surround or DTS Nerual:X, the receiver will try to use all of your speakers. Their exact algorithms are trade secrets, but they are known to use phase, amplitude and frequency information to produce their results. They do seem to have some similarities to the older ProLogic and DTS Neo:X algorithms. For example, if your player device provides a "dual mono" signal (identical audio in both channels of a stereo signal so both have identical phases), Dolby Surround will cause sound to come from only the center speaker. Many people are quite unhappy that the soundfield controls provided with the various flavors of ProLogic are not available for Dolby Surround.



The manufacturers keep adding more and more features in order to help justify higher prices for their higher end devices. Usability doesn't always seem to be a priority, though.
Wow - your posts, especially this one have been incredibly helpful. So the Movie Music and Game buttons are really all offering the same options, they are just separate so you can make a choice under each to have recalled (per input) automatically when you press them. That makes a lot of sense and I wasn't understanding that before! I've been leaving it on Dolby Surround/STS Neural: X for almost everything. That's kind of a bummer that I have perfectly good rear heights that would work fine as rear surrounds (the final 2 channels in the 7.1 discrete output), but instead I'm getting 5.1 with 4 channels upmixed in through an algorithm. So I am definitely losing sound fidelity as compared to the original mix. Is there some way through the amp selection for me to change it in such a way that before I watch a 7.1 movie, I can have all discrete channels playing their own content? I'm guessing it would require a wiring change as well if I remember correctly to move the rear heights to surround back input on the AVR. Or, is there a way for me to somehow set a preset to tell the AVR that when the preset is chosen, the rear heights should act as surround backs?

Thanks again for your very helpful replies.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #2354 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 02:21 PM
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Wow - your posts, especially this one have been incredibly helpful. So the Movie Music and Game buttons are really all offering the same options, they are just separate so you can make a choice under each to have recalled (per input) automatically when you press them. That makes a lot of sense and I wasn't understanding that before! I've been leaving it on Dolby Surround/STS Neural: X for almost everything. That's kind of a bummer that I have perfectly good rear heights that would work fine as rear surrounds (the final 2 channels in the 7.1 discrete output), but instead I'm getting 5.1 with 4 channels upmixed in through an algorithm. So I am definitely losing sound fidelity as compared to the original mix. Is there some way through the amp selection for me to change it in such a way that before I watch a 7.1 movie, I can have all discrete channels playing their own content? I'm guessing it would require a wiring change as well if I remember correctly to move the rear heights to surround back input on the AVR. Or, is there a way for me to somehow set a preset to tell the AVR that when the preset is chosen, the rear heights should act as surround backs?
Unfortunately, there's no quick and easy way to change the configuration of your rear speakers since the "Height2" (rearmost overhead speakers) connections are separate from the "Surround Back" connections. It might be possible if you were willing to install appropriate speaker switches so you could change which speaker binding posts are connected to which speakers, but you'd also have to forgo Audyssey for one of the configurations. (Well, that's not quite true: you could save and restore the receiver settings to and from your computer, but loading a different set takes about 10 minutes.)
Quote:
Thanks again for your very helpful replies.
You're very welcome.

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post #2355 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 02:24 PM
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Unfortunately, there's no quick and easy way to change the configuration of your rear speakers since the "Height2" (rearmost overhead speakers) connections are separate from the "Surround Back" connections. It might be possible if you were willing to install appropriate speaker switches so you could change which speaker binding posts are connected to which speakers, but you'd also have to forgo Audyssey for one of the configurations. (Well, that's not quite true: you could save and restore the receiver settings to and from your computer, but loading a different set takes about 10 minutes.)


You're very welcome.
Unless of course you're using the new Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android) in which case it would only take 60-90 seconds.
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post #2356 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 06:32 PM
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I have been eyin that reciever......it is a 9.2 channel reciever as it has 2 seperate LFE channels. That has 11.2 capabilities with the external amp.


So with no external amp, it will do 5.2.4 or 7.2.2........to do 7.2.4 you need a external amp.

For sake of simplicity a lot of people use the X for the LFE....7.x.4.......


I prefer the number of subs.......mine is 5.4.2, since I have a minidsp, each sub is configurable.........but I see X used for the LFE designation a lot.


But in the 7.2.4 configuration you have all the options available and the reciever will use the correct amout of speakers based on the native input of the content, no configuration needed.



I know....I know.......it requires buying even more stuff !.....


I am considering that reciever to run 5.4.4......for now.. With my new room under planning, I will do 7.6.4........


Because 7.1.4, is a big difference from 7.10.4.............no matter the LFE designation, it is LFE, why not use that slot to tell the number of subs.

For example you could say with that reciever you have 9.2, but only be running 1 sub.......


Because manufacturers mis use the LFE, so thats not a good spec either, my current reciever is rated at .2 , because it has 2 RCA`s for the LFE, but both are identical with no seperate controls.......where your reciever is also and correctly,labeled .2 as it has 2 independently configurable LFE outputs.


Another effect of manufactures not using well defined,universal ratings.......

So in essence, your reciever is actually 11.2, with 2 channels not powered. I wonder how many people just pass over that reciever because it is mis labeled as 9.2....

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post #2357 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Unfortunately, there's no quick and easy way to change the configuration of your rear speakers since the "Height2" (rearmost overhead speakers) connections are separate from the "Surround Back" connections. It might be possible if you were willing to install appropriate speaker switches so you could change which speaker binding posts are connected to which speakers, but you'd also have to forgo Audyssey for one of the configurations. (Well, that's not quite true: you could save and restore the receiver settings to and from your computer, but loading a different set takes about 10 minutes.)



You're very welcome.

Could you give an example of a speaker switcher I could use if I wanted to go this route?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Unless of course your using the new Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android) in which case it would only take 60-90 seconds.

Good point although I've had comparatively less than ideal results with the Audyssey app vs. running calibration through the AVR. Might still be willing to try. Given that I had a switch, I could just change that and amp settings between atmos and 7.1 movie viewing.

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post #2358 of 4937 Old 06-15-2017, 07:00 PM
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*Official* Marantz 2016 NR-1607, SR-5011/6011/7011 owner's thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
I have been eyin that reciever......it is a 9.2 channel reciever as it has 2 seperate LFE channels. That has 11.2 capabilities with the external amp.


So with no external amp, it will do 5.2.4 or 7.2.2........to do 7.2.4 you need a external amp.

For sake of simplicity a lot of people use the X for the LFE....7.x.4.......


I prefer the number of subs.......mine is 5.4.2, since I have a minidsp, each sub is configurable.........but I see X used for the LFE designation a lot.


But in the 7.2.4 configuration you have all the options available and the reciever will use the correct amout of speakers based on the native input of the content, no configuration needed.



I know....I know.......it requires buying even more stuff !.....


I am considering that reciever to run 5.4.4......for now.. With my new room under planning, I will do 7.6.4........


Because 7.1.4, is a big difference from 7.10.4.............no matter the LFE designation, it is LFE, why not use that slot to tell the number of subs.

For example you could say with that reciever you have 9.2, but only be running 1 sub.......


Because manufacturers mis use the LFE, so thats not a good spec either, my current reciever is rated at .2 , because it has 2 RCA`s for the LFE, but both are identical with no seperate controls.......where your reciever is also and correctly,labeled .2 as it has 2 independently configurable LFE outputs.


Another effect of manufactures not using well defined,universal ratings.......

So in essence, your reciever is actually 11.2, with 2 channels not powered. I wonder how many people just pass over that reciever because it is mis labeled as 9.2....


I'm planning on getting 2 of these speakers to use as in ceiling atmos:




and powering them with this:



With this configuration setup in my 6011:



Difference in my setup is that the surround backs are actually up high setup in rear height position. Thinking this should work.

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post #2359 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 12:40 AM
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I would step up a little for those ceiling speakers.......Not a huge amount, but a couple levels from those, especially with your proposed locations.



I am running 7 matched speakers, so the ceiling speakers have 2,6.5 woofers and a horn loaded tweeter.



If you are not going to put those speakers almost directly overhead, they will have some directivity issues,especially with a non pivoting tweeter.


Mine are front main width and approx. 20 inches in front of my ears and I had to give them 6db of gain just to get them to blend with a 8 foot tall ceiling.......I have moved them a couple times now and will be locating them a little closer together and a little closer to directly overhead.



The dolby set up states to approx. keep them the same width as the mains, the whole equilateral triangle thing, but I believe they work better if you use the equilateral triangle based on distance from your ears to the ceiling.


Something like this....... https://www.parts-express.com/bic-ac...eaker--303-484


It has a 8 inch woofer and a pivoting tweeter, and is still affordable.......

I have a entire Bic system and it sounds pretty good, it is certainly not Martin logan vanquish quality, but for the price, they get the job done.


I would also consider some sort of switch like you propose and consider getting 4 of those bic speakers in the ceiling, a little in front of your seating position and a little in back of the seating position.....with approx. 6 foot spread to center you in the ceiling soundfield.


You might already have some small cheap speakers, but I would put some overhead and move them around first before mounting those in ceiling speakers........or see if there is a small hole in the in ceiling speakers and move them around on the ceiling first before cutting them in to see what you prefer.

That dolby atmos layout has a lot more flexibility than you would think.........my speakers are about even with the front of my seats,so 20 ish inches in front of the ears and since they have no directional/pivotable tweeter they need to be 6db hot to just blend, I might bump them up another db until I move them another 6-10 inches closer to in line with my ears.

As mentioned above, also moving them closer together and centering them off the seating, rather than the room as they also seem very sensitive to width location with a non directional/pivoting tweeter.......the pivoting tweeter should help with that in your case, something I would seriously consider in a ceiling speaker that will only be approx. 48 inches above ear level..........Imagine how directional it would be if you sat 48 inches back from your mains....


Also biology has a little say too..... we are designed to hear on a ground plane,our ear shape is conductive to that, it is not shaped well to pick up over head sounds.........next time you have the stereo on, set it for 2.0/2.1 and while the music is playing take your head and point it at the speakers looking straight down at the floor and see how much it changes.........



Sorry for the long post, but these are just some observations I have made playing around with the Atmos overheads over the last 6 months.


From mine and other peoples observations in my room with the different speaker locations on the ceiling seems to be 24-36 inches in front and behind the ears, with a pivoting directional tweeter to be a highly desirable feature. And with most people crossing over around 100hz, as large as possible woofer up there to get that 100-500hz bass overhead.

2, 6.5 inch woofers that I have is about the same as a single 8 incher for bass and I feel a little more punchy bass up there in 100-500hz would not be a bad thing, but they seem to be enough to do the job. I imagine a pivoting tweeter would give a little more wiggle room up there, but with a fixed tweeter they will be very location dependent/sensitive.

Some of the better designs seem to feature multiple directional tweeters......but those fall outside what I am willing to pay and I believe a 8 incher like the bic with a directional single tweeter will do 98% of what the more expensive multiple tweeter designs will do, with a little time spent getting that ideal location.


Keep in mind this is for a single row of seats, I am sure 2 rows will change things...........

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post #2360 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Could you give an example of a speaker switcher I could use if I wanted to go this route?
Sorry, I have no personal experience with speaker switches, although I've seen them in use. Maybe someone else can suggest an appropriate solution.

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post #2361 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 01:40 AM
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For 2 weeks now i run a 3.1 setup, coming from 5.x.4 with also a VOG.


I must say, for every format (Atmos/DSU - DTSX-NeuralX- Dolby Digital, DTS and Stereo) 3.1 sounds amazing, never not getting what i expect, and i had this a lot with the 5.x.4 VOG setup.
Expecting sounds coming from above but often a bit disapointing.


Now the effects are spot on with more detail, think this is du to having 3 speakers doing the job for +5, and all up front.
For now do not think i will go back to 5.1.4, this is very easy on the mind, never a worry if the setup is ok for DTS(X), Dolby(Atmos), Auro, or whatever ......
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post #2362 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Could you give an example of a speaker switcher I could use if I wanted to go this route?

Good point although I've had comparatively less than ideal results with the Audyssey app vs. running calibration through the AVR. Might still be willing to try. Given that I had a switch, I could just change that and amp settings between atmos and 7.1 movie viewing.
Keep in mind that ideally the Surround Back speakers should be on the floor not in the ceiling so simulating 7.1 --> 5.1.4 is likely to provide a better experience than hearing rear surround audio up in the air behind you.
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post #2363 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Keep in mind that ideally the Surround Back speakers should be on the floor not in the ceiling so simulating 7.1 --> 5.1.4 is likely to provide a better experience than hearing rear surround audio up in the air behind you.


I thought about this actually. With my prior avr, I was running 7.1 and I feel the true 7.1 formats in that setup with the rear heights sounded better than the upmixing happening now. Could just be a levels thing but I rarely hear effects behind me anymore during those movies where I used to. I'll stick with it for now and maybe bump the channel levels of the rear heights slightly.

BTW - I think I'm going go with these for the in ceiling atmos and mount then 12" behind the main couch sitting positions. Any more than that and they'll be on top of a fan.


| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #2364 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 10:23 AM
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remote control using the SR5011 remote

Hello

I have the SR5011 and the CD6005, reading the manuals it gives me the impression that I can control the CD 'play' using the SR5011 remote control, by hooking up the remote out on the amp to the remote in on the CD and putting the little switch switching to external,

This doesn't work, plugged in a RCA cable but no luck, I'm missing something or ?

Tanks for any help

Minty
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post #2365 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minty95 View Post
Hello

I have the SR5011 and the CD6005, reading the manuals it gives me the impression that I can control the CD 'play' using the SR5011 remote control, by hooking up the remote out on the amp to the remote in on the CD and putting the little switch switching to external,

This doesn't work, plugged in a RCA cable but no luck, I'm missing something or ?

Tanks for any help

Minty
Correct, this is how the manual indicates it should work. Try manually powering on the devices in a specific order: TV, pause 5 seconds, AVR, pause 5 seconds, CD6005. Then try pressing the CD source button before pressing a button to operate the CD6005. You may simply want to invest in a Harmony remote which would be able to control all of your components.
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post #2366 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I thought about this actually. With my prior avr, I was running 7.1 and I feel the true 7.1 formats in that setup with the rear heights sounded better than the upmixing happening now. Could just be a levels thing but I rarely hear effects behind me anymore during those movies where I used to. I'll stick with it for now and maybe bump the channel levels of the rear heights slightly.

BTW - I think I'm going go with these for the in ceiling atmos and mount then 12" behind the main couch sitting positions. Any more than that and they'll be on top of a fan.

Page 4,8,9,20,26...........


https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf


Here is the full on cinema document, but is usefull to see the general idea of a home condensed version.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ifications.pdf


12 inches behind should be good, in case you decide to do 2 more approx 24 inches in front of the MLP........if you get a big gap in the soundfield between front heights and those ceiling speakers.


Based on what I have heard playing around with my set up, you are going to have to run those front heights pretty hot as the mains are very active at the same time as the atmos content.


I would not be hesitant to deviate from the room correction levels to get what you think sounds correct.


The mic does not have ear canals to direct and reject sound from different directions..........once I got my ceilings up to 6 db hot....took a while of slowly turning them up, to finally get that good 3d sound bubble....the directional tweeters should help considerably in that area.


I have no direct experiance with the Micca`s, but have heard good things about them as a budget speaker..........the bic`s on the other hand, I do have and a couple of variants of bic`s and they are strong performers for the price point.....with a crazy long warranty.

If you really wanted to step up and not blow the budget, this is what I will be running in my new room.......4 of these on that same reciever.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0S6-000P-00049

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post #2367 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 06:47 PM
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Was playing with the channel levels today and realized I could turn the volume up and down on the AVR while doing this. Doesn?t that defeat the purpose? Shouldn?t the post Audyssey calibration play the levels as they were set to = 0 (reference)? Little confused on this point.
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post #2368 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 06:53 PM
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@unretarded thanks for the reply. I still have to read through the atmos documentation and will be doing so tonight. I?ve currently only adjusted the sub channel to run at 6db hot and added +2db to my center as dialogue was somewhat weak during movies I haven?t messed with the front or rear heights as of now but I plan to do a ?by ear? check tonight. Eyes closed, I?ll play channel to channel and see if I think they sound equal in volume to the fronts/center. I may even raise them some above that.

In regards to the atmos speakers, I did wind up going with 2 of the ones I put in my previous post (and that amp). I plan to put these about 12? behind main couch and turn the tweeters towards the couch position in both. I guess they are supposed to be in line with the fronts? I?ll learn the answer to that as I go through the Dolby atmos manual tonight. Thanks for your helpful replies.
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post #2369 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 07:55 PM
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The "suggested" spacing is the width of the mains, which should be loosely based on the equilateral triangle..........if you are 8 foot away, they should be 8 foot apart.



However, going from the equilateral triangle, you will not be that distance from the over head speakers. I felt a little closer together than recommended was better, but I do not have directional pivoting tweeters.


If at all possible, I would look for a way to put those speakers overhead temp and play with moving them 6-12 inches in either direction from the recommended location........it might not be possible, but I used a simple plastic drywall anchor and moved them about, so I only had to patch a very small 1/4 inch hole with spackle.


If you can not temp them in, you should be fine with those pivoting tweeters as there is a "LOT" of wiggle room in the Atmos over heads granted you have the ability to angle the speaker or tweeter towards the listening position. That combined with being able to raise the level of them should give you lots of wiggle room, so I would not worry much in your case.


Your proposed location sounds about ideal for your situation as that will still allow you to do 2 more overhead in front of the MLP if those front heights are not to your liking. I do not see why front heights would not work with some adjusting of angle and gain levels.......but it nice to have the option if they do not.....no one likes cutting a bunch of holes in the ceiling.



I do not know how construction savvy you are, so if you need any help locating the best shot at getting those holes in the ceiling by locating the joists just let me know, I think you said you had attic access, so you should be set. Just be careful up there, a cheap 10 dollar sheet of plywood or some boards makes life up there a lot easier. Keeps the chance of a Fred Flintstone thru the ceiling to a minimal.

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post #2370 of 4937 Old 06-16-2017, 08:45 PM
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Haha thanks, this is actually on my first floor and I have a second story. So I'll be cutting holes in the ceiling from below and fishing the wire sideways and down the wall into the basement. I've put in recessed lights before in the same room so I'm aware of where the joists are and support beams. Should work out nicely and easily.
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| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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