The "Official" Yamaha RX-A1060, RX-A2060 and RX-A3060 AVENTAGE AVR Thread - Page 103 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3061 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 03:51 AM
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An interesting article in What Hi-Fi says that DV will run over anything with HDMI 1.4b onwards, so reading between the lines, I'm assuming this means most/all current receivers will be good for DV pass-through... http://www.whathifi.com/advice/dolby...u-need-to-know
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post #3062 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 05:50 AM
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RX-A3060 HDMI Issue?

Anybody using a JVC RS500 / RS600 PJ as a display, with a Panasonic UB900 UHD Blu-Ray player, going through a RX-A3060?

It appears the UB900 won't output 4K 12 bit (4:4:4 I guess) THROUGH the RX-A3060.

When I go to the UB900 screen to set the 4K60 to 4:4:4 or 4:2:0, it says display is "4K 4:2:0 - 8 bit" after it runs its query.

The RS500 info screen shows "Deep Color" as greyed out, with no number after it when playing a UHD disc through the 3060.

If I run the UB900 straight to the PJ (with the same cable that normally goes from the 3060 to the PJ - tried 2 actually, with same result) then the UB900 says display is "4K 4:4:4 - 12 bit", and during playback the PJ info screen says "12 bit" across from "Deep Color".

I THINK (not 100% at this point) that my Roku Ultra is doing the same thing when trying to set 4K HDR -vs- 4K non-HDR. Won't go through the 3060 if set to 4K HDR, but will work straight to PJ.

I've tried 3 different cables (short ones that are new and 2 that are supposedly 4k certified, whatever that means) from source to 3060 with the same result. I've tried 2 different cables (long -50') from 3060 to PJ with one being a fiber Celerity and the other a Cabernet active. Both work exactly the same that I can see - both OK straight from the UB900 or Roku. Both work fine from 3060, just not 4K60 4:4:4. Can't play 24p 4K 12bit from Panasonic either (or at least it doesn't say 12 bit on PJ info screen - greyed out).

Tried setting "HDMI Mode" to 1 and 2 in the Yamaha menu. The default (1 I think) is better as it works fine except 12 bit as described - the other setting doesn't seem to sync on any 4K at all).

Anybody have any thoughts? Maybe it's something simple I've overlooked.
Thanks!
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post #3063 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostie202 View Post
An interesting article in What Hi-Fi says that DV will run over anything with HDMI 1.4b onwards, so reading between the lines, I'm assuming this means most/all current receivers will be good for DV pass-through... http://www.whathifi.com/advice/dolby...u-need-to-know
thanks for posting this, although not much technical details in there.

also note that some of the info isnt quite correct. VUDU does not yet support HDR10. They said they will in the future, but it has not been implemented yet. Dolby Vision does not yet work on Chromecast Ultra for LG OLED's.

I found this nice Dolby Vision FAQ, so I'll share it here:

http://yoeri.geutskens.com/faqs/dolby-vision-faq.html
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post #3064 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 07:23 AM
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I know this is a 1060/2060/3060 thread, but looking to compare the A1060 to the A860. I'm interested in the A1060's zone 2 video out to share components, but not sure if its that valuable to have all the components available on my bedroom TV.

Mainly using this to run 5.2.2

Any thoughts for a 7 channel setup?

TV: Panasonic 60" VT60 Plasma Surround: Yamaha RXA3050 5.1.2 Definitive Technology BP7006 (front), DefTech studio 350's (rear), Def Tech Di6.5r (ceiling) Players: Raspberry Pi running OpenElec/Kodi, Roku, Sony Blu-ray Control: Control4, whole house automation
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post #3065 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
Anybody have any thoughts? Maybe it's something simple I've overlooked.
Thanks!
The 3060 MUST be in HDMI Mode-1. Apart from that your issues sound a bit like a cable issue. You should only use "Premium Certified" cables rated for 18Gbps. Many cables claim "4K support" but don't manage 18G. Also be aware that 60Hz cannot be 4:4:4 at 12 bit, it will max out at 4:2:2.
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post #3066 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 10:08 AM
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I really don't see what info it is that you think you don't have. The Yamaha AVRs do not have the necessary DV chip to be able to process Digital Dolby. It never has and Yamaha has never claimed that it will support DV processing. You asked about "pass thru" and they did not respond to that question. My assumption is that Dolby holds them to non-disclosure over anything related to DV if they (Yamaha) ever wants to do business with Dolby. So Yamaha has responded with the only position available. If things change -- other agreements are arranged, we may learn about it in due time. Beating a dead horse here.


... I'm not too "" about whether this AVR or any AVR supports or passes through DV because there is always the DV "Pass By" route. DV UHD Disc Player Video Out straight to the display with UHD Player Audio Out to the AVR. Most if not all Premium UHD Displays that have DV Capabilities will perform just as good or better PQ then an AVR. I'm not a big "Streamer" but apparently the DV Streaming Content has already been addressed so I can not really see an issue here ... but if there is an issue then there's always the "Pass By" option.
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post #3067 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 10:34 AM
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... I'm not too "" about whether this AVR or any AVR supports or passes through DV because there is always the DV "Pass By" route. DV UHD Disc Player Video Out straight to the display with UHD Player Audio Out to the AVR. Most if not all Premium UHD Displays that have DV Capabilities will perform just as good or better PQ then an AVR. I'm not a big "Streamer" but apparently the DV Streaming Content has already been addressed so I can not really see an issue here ... but if there is an issue then there's always the "Pass By" option.
I don't use the AVR for video processing anyway, so that does not matter. But there would be loss of the audio OnScreen info if only the audio HDMI info goes to the AVR because the video passes directly to the tv. In addition, if DV can pass through the AVR (which it should -- ideally, hopefully), I don't have to run another configuration AND I get the Yamaha OnScreen AND I can use the OPPO Info function. If I do have to bypass the OPPO 203 output there is no loss of OPPO video information which is extensive and complete (can't say the same for other current blu ray players), but Yamaha info would be limited to the comparatively awkward and limited front panel display.

Quite frankly, the Yamaha OnScreen panel information is a major motivation for buying Yamaha.

Edit: I almost forgot -- members here would likely be interested in this post I made to the OPPO 203 thread.

Jumping to a different topic but one that many 203 owners may be very interested in -- in another forum this 30 Jan article by John Archer was posted (sorry I don't remember the OP). http://www.whathifi.com/advice/dolby...u-need-to-know

Notable quote, "Until CES 2017, it was widely assumed that Dolby Vision hardware (screens and Ultra HD Blu-ray players) needed to carry a dedicated chip. However, it is now possible to add Dolby Vision support via a firmware update to devices with sufficiently powerful processors."
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post #3068 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
The 3060 MUST be in HDMI Mode-1. Apart from that your issues sound a bit like a cable issue. You should only use "Premium Certified" cables rated for 18Gbps. Many cables claim "4K support" but don't manage 18G. Also be aware that 60Hz cannot be 4:4:4 at 12 bit, it will max out at 4:2:2.
This is odd - Mode 1 mostly results in black / no sync screens and certainly doesn't solve anything (unless I'm missing something). I've now tried it twice. Mode 2 seems to work normally except for the issue I'm describing.

EDIT: I now see in the 3060 manual that you appear to be exactly correct in saying Mode 1 is right - just don't see why nothing seems to work with it set that way. I've turned off the power before trying it after changing modes, FWIW.

I've now determined that even with the behavior I've described, if I pull up the Panasonic UB900's info screen, it shows the HDMI format to be 4K 4:2:2 12 bit (when playing UHD disc).

So I'm now thinking that somehow the 3060 is stripping the info (or at least how the RS500 projector reads it) but not affecting the actual video stream.

So while the UB900 direct to the PJ allows the PJ to show "Deep Color - 12 bit" on the signal info screen, routing HDMI through the 3060 still has Deep Color grayed out with no number beside it, but the UB900 signal info shows it is generating 4K 4:2:2 12 bit.

So unless the 3060 is changing the format (I don't see how, as I've got video processing disabled on it) I guess what is coming out of the UB900 is going into the RS500?

Just odd that others seem to get the RS500 to display input signals accurately - even when using this same AVR.

Last edited by Iamjcl; 01-31-2017 at 11:01 AM.
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I don't use the AVR for video processing anyway, so that does not matter. But there would be loss of the audio OnScreen info if only the audio HDMI info goes to the AVR because the video passes directly to the tv. In addition, if DV can pass through the AVR (which it should -- ideally, hopefully), I don't have to run another configuration AND I get the Yamaha OnScreen AND I can use the OPPO Info function. If I do have to bypass the OPPO 203 output there is no loss of OPPO video information which is extensive and complete (can't say the same for other current blu ray players), but Yamaha info would be limited to the comparatively awkward and limited front panel display.

Quite frankly, the Yamaha OnScreen panel information is a major motivation for buying Yamaha.

Edit: I almost forgot -- members here would likely be interested in this post I made to the OPPO 203 thread.

Jumping to a different topic but one that many 203 owners may be very interested in -- in another forum this 30 Jan article by John Archer was posted (sorry I don't remember the OP). http://www.whathifi.com/advice/dolby...u-need-to-know

Notable quote, "Until CES 2017, it was widely assumed that Dolby Vision hardware (screens and Ultra HD Blu-ray players) needed to carry a dedicated chip. However, it is now possible to add Dolby Vision support via a firmware update to devices with sufficiently powerful processors."

I agree that DV should be able to "pass through" even if there is no DV "Support". Just saying it ain't the end of the world "" if by some chance DV is not able to pass through. It will not be like I will "pass" the 3060 out "through" the window if it does pass through DV.
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This is odd - Mode 1 mostly results in black / no sync screens and certainly doesn't solve anything (unless I'm missing something). I've now tried it twice. Mode 2 seems to work normally except for the issue I'm describing.

.
It's not possible to pass HDR 4K video unless the AVR is set to HDMI Mode-1. Period. Again I suspect that your cable(s) are at least part of the problem.

If a display shows black screen or a "no signal" message then that's a HDCP handshake failure. Again, pointing to cable.
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post #3071 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 11:06 AM
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This is odd - Mode 1 mostly results in black / no sync screens and certainly doesn't solve anything (unless I'm missing something)....

Just odd that others seem to get the RS500 to display input signals accurately - even when using this same AVR.
Can we step back? @rdgrimes asked about whether you use "Premium Certified High Speed HDMI" cables. That does not mean Cabernet or and other 4k "certified" -- it means it has the "Premium Certified" stamp meaning that it has been tested.

If you are, have you tried swapping them out with another Premium Certified cable just in case you have a defective cable.

I fully agree with rdgrimes.

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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
This is odd - Mode 1 mostly results in black / no sync screens and certainly doesn't solve anything (unless I'm missing something). I've now tried it twice. Mode 2 seems to work normally except for the issue I'm describing.

.
Further detailing: When you set it to Mode-2 you are forcing lower bandwidth on the cable.
If your cables don't have this image on the packaging or in the advertising, you're wasting your time trying to troubleshoot anything else.



I've had good luck with these: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427
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post #3073 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 11:20 AM
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Can we step back? @rdgrimes asked about whether you use "Premium Certified High Speed HDMI" cables. That does not mean Cabernet or and other 4k "certified" -- it means it has the "Premium Certified" stamp meaning that it has been tested.

If you are, have you tried swapping them out with another Premium Certified cable just in case you have a defective cable.

I fully agree with rdgrimes.
I do understand about "Premium Certified" branding. I didn't make it clear but the 6' MP cables are just that (not the cabernet one, I don't think).

Regarding the cabernet - I've also got a rather pricey celerity fiber cable (new version which is essentially universally touted as being 18gbps capable) and I've yet to see a situation that works with the Celerity but won't with the cabernet.

That said, I'm thinking now that one thing I maybe haven't tried is switching to Mode 1 and then trying both long (Celerity / Cabernet) between AVR and PJ.

The two 4K HDR sources I have both work at their maximum 4K60 HDR settings if connected directly with either long cable. By working I mean actually with HDR content via Youtube and Netflix without artifacts. Highest frame rate 4K stuff I could find, but maybe there is a better way to test.

I'll try Mode 1 with the Celerity and see if that changes anything.

Thanks for the input and help.
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post #3074 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Further detailing: When you set it to Mode-2 you are forcing lower bandwidth on the cable.
If your cables don't have this image on the packaging or in the advertising, you're wasting your time trying to troubleshoot anything else.



I've had good luck with these: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427
Thanks - that's exactly what I'm using (short ones).

See last post...
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post #3075 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 11:33 AM
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Thanks - that's exactly what I'm using (short ones).

See last post...
Thanks for posting that clarification -- I wasn't sure if that's what you meant by "just that". From what I've read, I don't have much faith in the Cabernet whether they happen to work or not. But it would seem that the Celerity would work (no real experience or knowledge though).

I think the issue is that something in your path is blocking you -- bypassing works and others have success using Mode 1. If you haven't done it, I would put the cable you use to bypass the AVR as the connection from AVR to pj (known good) and work more on the Panny to AVR path.

Sorry if you are way ahead of me -- and good luck!

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... there's always the "Pass By" option.
the problem with that solution is then I wouldn't get Dolby Atmos from my TV.
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I agree that DV should be able to "pass through" even if there is no DV "Support". Just saying it ain't the end of the world "" if by some chance DV is not able to pass through. It will not be like I will "pass" the 3060 out "through" the window if it does pass through DV.
While not the end of the world, of course, it will end my use of the 1060 and I will return it and wait for a model that will work as I want it to. Sucks that this **60 series is obsolete right out of the box. I've already had a bit of a sour taste in my mouth after the whole Yamaha / Spotify thing with my 1020.
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While not the end of the world, of course, it will end my use of the 1060 and I will return it and wait for a model that will work as I want it to. Sucks that this **60 series is obsolete right out of the box. I've already had a bit of a sour taste in my mouth after the whole Yamaha / Spotify thing with my 1020.
There is no AVR who will confirm DV pass-thru at this time so I don't get what the beef is. It's still a gigantic maybe.
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post #3079 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 12:11 PM
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the problem with that solution is then I wouldn't get Dolby Atmos from my TV.


... I'm not sure I understand your A/V Handshake configuration regarding DV and Dolby Atmos
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the problem with that solution is then I wouldn't get Dolby Atmos from my TV.
The problem with that is your tv doesnt support Atmos anyway.
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The problem with that is your tv doesnt support Atmos anyway.
exactly
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Thanks - that's exactly what I'm using (short ones).

See last post...
Are you using the same input on the display with both methods of connection? Might be time to visit the appropriate thread for your display and see what other owners have to say. But I can absolutely guarantee you that Mode-1 is required.
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post #3083 of 7112 Old 01-31-2017, 05:36 PM
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Are you using the same input on the display with both methods of connection? Might be time to visit the appropriate thread for your display and see what other owners have to say. But I can absolutely guarantee you that Mode-1 is required.
Yes - same input but had tried both.

Well I was able to get Mode 1 to work. Don't know if it took turning everything (Fury, AVR, PJ, UB900) off or what, but after 2 tries on 2 different days trying to get Mode 1 to play nice (and it not playing at all) it did finally. I switched inputs back and forth and turned on and off the AVR / Fury and it continued to work through it all.

Confirmed that the Cabernet 45' as well as the Celerity both work as expected in this configuration.

Also, I can't remember as I've done so much switching around, but I may have not tried the Fury between the AVR and PJ on my prior Mode 1 tests - maybe that is why it gave me trouble?. I have it there now, and it works - so I'll leave it alone.

As far as Mode 2, while not full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth as you and the manual point out, it appears that it will - and does - pass 4K24 HDR-->SDR 4:2:2 12bit. I'm not sure this is documented, but after learning that the JVC RS500 having the Deep Color info banner grayed out simply means it is a 12 bit signal, at 4:2:2. If it is other than 4:2:2, it shows bit depth - so I learned that also.

@rdgrimes , @richlife - Thanks for the insight and suggestions.
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post #3084 of 7112 Old 02-01-2017, 07:41 AM
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Bad disc. Return it.
I receieved my replacement copy of Unbroken. Same results as before. Then I tried out John Wick which I also just received and it also displayed the audio as dolby digital. As I coincidence, afterwards I installed a newer Bluray player. After setting it up, I tried both Unbroken and John Wick. Both show up as Atmos! It must have been something with the way my old player read the audio track.
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post #3085 of 7112 Old 02-01-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
Yes - same input but had tried both.

Well I was able to get Mode 1 to work. Don't know if it took turning everything (Fury, AVR, PJ, UB900) off or what, but after 2 tries on 2 different days trying to get Mode 1 to play nice (and it not playing at all) it did finally. I switched inputs back and forth and turned on and off the AVR / Fury and it continued to work through it all.

Confirmed that the Cabernet 45' as well as the Celerity both work as expected in this configuration.

Also, I can't remember as I've done so much switching around, but I may have not tried the Fury between the AVR and PJ on my prior Mode 1 tests - maybe that is why it gave me trouble?. I have it there now, and it works - so I'll leave it alone.

As far as Mode 2, while not full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth as you and the manual point out, it appears that it will - and does - pass 4K24 HDR-->SDR 4:2:2 12bit. I'm not sure this is documented, but after learning that the JVC RS500 having the Deep Color info banner grayed out simply means it is a 12 bit signal, at 4:2:2. If it is other than 4:2:2, it shows bit depth - so I learned that also.

@rdgrimes , @richlife - Thanks for the insight and suggestions.
Good you are up and running -- and happy . I have read in various forums that when these systems are all connected there can be subtle, unseen and unknown interactions (conspiracy? :<) that have unexpected effects. At times the suggestion is to power everything off, unplug everything, wait a bit and then restart everything again one at a time. I know -- ghosts and goblins. I don't question, I just try to do what works.

Atmos/DTS:X HT in Vaulted Room -- LG OLED Settings Options
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post #3086 of 7112 Old 02-02-2017, 03:22 AM
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Based on the following German release, looks like the 2016 Denon and Marantz models will be getting a Dolby Vision and HLG firmware update either end of 2017 or early 2018, so possibly Yamaha will be able to release a similar update for these 2016 models as well.

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...e-3614979.html
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post #3087 of 7112 Old 02-02-2017, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Based on the following German release, looks like the 2016 Denon and Marantz models will be getting a Dolby Vision and HLG firmware update either end of 2017 or early 2018, so possibly Yamaha will be able to release a similar update for these 2016 models as well.

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...e-3614979.html
That would be consistent with the John Archer comment and link that I posted here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post50369937

No guarantees for anyone, but it's good to know that at least one manufacturer hopes to provide the capability we want.

On a related side note, it appears the the new OPPO 203 UHD bluray player (currently the only player that could take advantage of such a DV upgrade to the AVRs), is known to have issues with the Denon/Marantz AVRs. OPPO is working to try to resolve those issues.

Atmos/DTS:X HT in Vaulted Room -- LG OLED Settings Options
Yamaha RX-A3060: 7.2.4 or 7.2.2 + Zone2 (switchable); OPPO 203; LG OLED65B6P; Harmony 650 & Home Hub
Base: Mirage OM-6 (FLR), MC-si (C), OM-R2 (SLR), FRx-nine (BLR)
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post #3088 of 7112 Old 02-02-2017, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Based on the following German release, looks like the 2016 Denon and Marantz models will be getting a Dolby Vision and HLG firmware update either end of 2017 or early 2018, so possibly Yamaha will be able to release a similar update for these 2016 models as well.

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...e-3614979.html
Thanks for the info...
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post #3089 of 7112 Old 02-03-2017, 07:07 AM
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Hi Guys, I've done a bunch of searches but haven't been able to find anything about the problem I think I'm having.

I just received a RX-A3060 and have set it up in my new home theater. My configuration is everything powered from the 3060 except the L&R Mains which are powered from an external amplifier. Configuration 7.2.4 [Ext.Front]. Input it HDMI from a Comcast Cable Box.

It seems to me that the output volume of the entire system is on the low side. In order to get any audible sound I have turn the input trim to +6dB and the Volume to at least -20 before I hear anything, and for a normal listening volume it looks like -12 to -10? I've tried different inputs using different pieces of equipment such as CD players on one of the audio inputs.

Should I be hearing the system prior to -20? Every thread about volume levels I've read seems like -20 is fairly loud and approaching -10 should be blowing me out of the room?? Am I correct in this understanding? I'm wondering if I have the setting correct, I've read the manual extensively and followed the setup in it as best I can see.

Supplementary Info:
Speakers are all 8 Ohm - System is Set for 8 Ohm
Mains being powered from the external amp don't seem to have the same volume problem.

Last edited by NH_Patriot; 02-03-2017 at 07:49 AM.
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post #3090 of 7112 Old 02-03-2017, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NH_Patriot View Post
It seems to me that the output volume of the entire system is on the low side. In order to get any audible sound I have turn the input trim to +6dB and the Volume to at least -20 before I hear anything, and for a normal listening volume it looks like -12 to -10? I've tried different inputs using different pieces of equipment such as CD players on one of the audio inputs.
Its all relative. Apparently your past AVR was not a recent Yamaha model. -20 is a pretty common listening level. I typically listen at -15. I'd avoid using the input trim to boost levels, as this could result in clipping. Input trim is for balancing one input to the others. In most cases its not needed.
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