The "Official" Yamaha RX-A1060, RX-A2060 and RX-A3060 AVENTAGE AVR Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 10:55 AM
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thxs

Quote:
Originally Posted by richlife View Post
aflorida, I really recommend that you start reading from the beginning of the Axx50 Owners thread, rather than the A3060 manual. You've pretty much gotten to the point that until you have the device in front of you to try out, you won't really understand all the answers you get. Pretty much all of what you ask along with some great background information is covered in the first 80 - 90 pages of Axx50. All the references that are made to the manual are just limited unless you can read AND THEN TRY IT OUT. Between the info on the AVR and the screen output, you begin to make sense of what's in the doc.

I found that was true even coming from the A820 since that device just didn't have anything like the capabilities of the A3060.

Hang in -- I know you're getting close to gold. Believe me, you have a load of fun headed your way.
I will take your advice and hang in there...I am getting anxious and I believe all this will make sense to me once I install the 3060.
Sorry If I am becoming a pain in the a_ _ but you guys have been very helpfull in the last few weeks.
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post #542 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflorida View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Straight plays back the source in its original format.... Surround Decode expands the sound if the number of speakers in your setup exceeds the number of channels encoded in the content (for example stereo expanded out into 5.1...) see the manual pages 77 and 81.... for your setup Stright will work unless you want to listen to stereo sources in 5.1.

In regards to the front display.... press the Info button on the remote to toggle. Manual page 114
Thanks...
from what you are telling me since I only have at this point 5.1 configuration therefore
it doesnt matter if I use EITHER STRAIGHT or SURROUND DECODE for the BLU RAY example I gave you (lets say encoded in DTS HD MASTER AUDIO) since my 5.1 configuration DOES NOT EXCEED (5.1) the # of channels encoded. I can use either? Correct?
And whatever format the Blu ray disc is I will get...example I will get DTS HD MASTER AUDIO...DOLBY TRUE SURROUND,etc.and for TV /CABLE TV BOXviewing I will be only receiving 5.1 DOLBY DIGITAL which is all I get from Cable TV BOX
And furthermore
you can toggle using the remote INFO buttion in eihter STRAIGHT or SURROUND DECODE and see what I am getting on the YAMAHA front panel display..and it stays on the front panel display..or does it disappear back to plain STRAIGHT or SURROUND DECODE on the front panel?
Am I making sense ?
Please educate me.

I just want to make sure I will be getting these loss less audio formats encoded either with SURROND or STRAIGHT MODES chosen(lossless audio) since I am coming from an old pre-pro that only had 5.1 DD and became oudated.

Do you have to also apply the SOUND MODES such as Movie: Example: Adventure/Spectacle/Sci -Fi or you dont have to use these DSP YAMAHA SOUND MODES if you dont want to or you cant have 1 with out the other
The info toggle stays until you change it back......

The sound modes have nothing to do with lossless or lossy encoding. The codec passes along to the AVR and gets decoded into PCM... surround and DSP processing happens after that...

And you can apply DSP sound modes on top of Surround Decoders (Dolby Surround and DTS Neural X.)

If you are concerned about "purity" I would suggest Straight for BR inputs, and Surround Deocder for your cable/satellite/OTA sources as there are still quite a few stereo broadcasts that were desinged to be listened to in 5.1 as decoded surround...

For music you have a choice.
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post #543 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlife View Post
Could someone please respond to this question?

I'm getting close to trying some experimentation in my peculiar room and have found the same Bi-amp option that I have no interest in. I could bi-amp my fronts but can't see that there would be an advantage. Different surround/height speaker options are far more likely to provide improved results. (MAYBE might produced improved results -- things are really nice with 7.2.2.)
Hi richlife,

After re-reading the manual for the umpteenth time, I believe that "Basic speaker configuration" which starts on page 21 is what we are looking for. At least that is what I chose in the Amp configuration section of the speaker setup menu.

Now, if there is a way to edit the Advanced speaker configurations to remove the Bi-amping option, I would really like to find out about that.

Anyway, take a look at page 21 and after and see if that covers what you are trying to do.

Regards,

Steve

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post #544 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 12:38 PM
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Yamaha Aventage only has 35% of their claimed power output. This isn't about their features that's another debate. So changing the subject doesn't work. I have shown my source in my first post #528 for those that lie and say I haven't.

Why is it that Yamaha's amps are by far the worst on the market?
(All final numbers refer to running all 7-channels simultaneously)
Yamaha 38% (140w Claimed - 54.2w Actual)
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...iew-test-bench
Denon 75% (150w Claimed - 113.7w Actual)
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ver-test-bench
Onkyo 83% (140w Claimed - 117.2w Actual)
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...iew-test-bench

These are all amps reviewed this year in 2016 I tried getting a bench test review on the Denon AVR-X6200W (140w) but couldn't find one so I had to use his big brother instead. I didn't include any older models like my 2008 Onkyo TX-SR875 THX Ultra2 rated at 140w - 128w Actual = 91.4%. And I prefer still to have more power for my front soundstage so I have an Emotiva XPA-3 external amp for a true 200wpc. Because my speakers can handle it. Since I added a 3-ch amp my receiver now only has to push 4-channels and does so at 141w+. I have nothing to hide in my decisions of adding an amp. I just like having the most out of my speakers that i've spent thousands of dollars on.

The reason I brought this up to the Yamaha owners is to see if, (A) they would actually acknowledge the problem and work to put pressure on Yamaha to address this lack in their power amps for future AVR lineups. And (B) consider adding External Amps if they already own said Yamaha Aventage AVR's.

If an owner of these Yamaha Aventage amps were to even add a 2-ch external amp it would increase their output from 54.2w to 119.9w

I am writing about this problem to help people who are mislead about Yamaha's and other manufactures specs. Yamaha is by far the worse offender in 2016 amongst other years. Don't take it so personally. Like some people think it's an attack on their ego. It's a friendly dose of reality that's all. You can choose to ignore the facts if you want. I just want you all to be informed and not afraid to bring up the taboo third rail point to Yamaha owners, which is their lack of power!

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post #545 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredandLovingIt View Post
Hi richlife,

After re-reading the manual for the umpteenth time, I believe that "Basic speaker configuration" which starts on page 21 is what we are looking for. At least that is what I chose in the Amp configuration section of the speaker setup menu.

Now, if there is a way to edit the Advanced speaker configurations to remove the Bi-amping option, I would really like to find out about that.

Anyway, take a look at page 21 and after and see if that covers what you are trying to do.

Regards,

Steve
Hey, thanks Steve. Some other posts I read made me suspect that going thru Basic was the way -- but I was hoping someone could help ease the learning curve.

I'd spent so much time prepping and setting up my Yammy, that I've had to take a break (from experimenting, not from listening) to get other things done. May take a while yet to get there. But the 4 disc Jason Bourne bluray set is supposed to get here today. Not Atmos, but I SUPPOSE I can make enough time to explore some...
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post #546 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKaudiophile View Post
Yamaha has only 35% of their claimed power output, nobody seems to have a reason to support this decision they made. This isn't about their features that's another debate. So changing the subject doesn't work. I have shown my source in my first post #528 for those that lie and say I haven't.
Yamaha "may" have 35% power output driving all channels when overloaded with a:
continuous loaded sin wave across all channels simultaneously.
But where does it say that's what will happen when you're playing back ACTUAL user content?

...it Doesn't, so you are ASSUMING it's the same result.

It most certainly is not, as many ACTUAL owners are trying to tell you
Most here can drive their Yamaha systems well over reference levels without the need for added amplifiers.
It's been happening for DECADES already, at least 4 for me.

If lack of power was a real world issue for REAL YAMAHA owners, there would be a sticky thread at the top of this page,
...right above the https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...il-2018-a.html thread.

Just because this is all new to you, doesn't mean we haven't all heard it here already.
From Sound and Vision in 1988, one of my older AVR's ...an RX-V1800
...a page right out of your own Gospel:



In case you can't read the fine print it reads:

...Bettered 100 watts all around with 5 channels driven, it ran out of current when 2 more channels were added,
HOWEVER, SINCE the 7-CHANNEL RESULT DROPPED by 3dB to 55 watts - A NON-ISSUE IN THE REAL WORLD,
WHERE PROGRAM SIGNALS NEVER DEMAND THIS LEVEL OF STABILITY!

What Part of "NON ISSUE in the REAL World" do you not comprehend?
They are referring specifically to a SINE WAVE test load as being complete overkill,
you quite simply cannot reproduce that in your own home, EVER!

I never had a lack of output power from my RX-V1800
MY RX-V3900 a couple years later was even slightly better...



...and both are still working fine today,
The RX-A3050 replaced the 8 y/o RX-V3900 this year for 4k, HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2 upgrades
But most importantly for 11 channel processing Atmos/DTS:X in my Home Theater.

I ran my new RX-A3050 in 7 channel mode first and it performed even better than the previous models it replaced.
Powerful, Dynamic and Clean, even when expanding a 2 channel stereo to all 7 speakers to over 100dB levels.

The RX-A3050 currently drives my 7 bed layer speakers,
the old RX-V3900 powers the 4 Presence/Height Atmos speakers in Multi-Channel mode.
But the real bulk of the serious power in the room comes from
a Pair of 12" front subs and a Pair of 15" rear subs 1000watt/2000watt dynamic output each.

When that much Sub Bass power (below 80Hz) is taken away from the load on the AVR's power supply,
there is a DRAMATIC and very REAL increase in amplifier dynamic Headroom to handle all the easy-to-drive >80Hz frequencies.
Well above 100 watts per channel. PERIOD. Your 54watt SINE WAVE claim is completely and utterly moot!

You don't even have to be an electrical engineer to realize that.


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post #547 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlife View Post
Hey, thanks Steve. Some other posts I read made me suspect that going thru Basic was the way -- but I was hoping someone could help ease the learning curve.

I'd spent so much time prepping and setting up my Yammy, that I've had to take a break (from experimenting, not from listening) to get other things done. May take a while yet to get there. But the 4 disc Jason Bourne bluray set is supposed to get here today. Not Atmos, but I SUPPOSE I can make enough time to explore some...
Glad I could be of some small help.

After everyone else goes to bed, I play around with the unit and learn a little more each time. I am really falling in love with this receiver. Does way more than I will probably ever need, sounds great, and has plenty of power for my 5.1.2 setup (soon to be 5.1.4). About the farthest I will go in this regards will be 7.2.4, but that is down the road a piece.

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post #548 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AKaudiophile View Post
.... were discussing the Yamaha Aventage 2050/2060 lineup.
I am far from an expert or even a novice in regards to this discussion, but I do have a question for you if I may.

In the portion of the quote above, you say that this discussion is about the Yamaha Aventage 2050/2060 receivers. However, from what I am able to understand from your posts, you seem to be lumping ALL Yamaha receivers in your assertion about power or lack there of. So, are you directing your comments to these 2 receivers alone or are you including all Yamaha receivers?

To be up front I just received my first Yamaha receiver, the A3060, and am really enjoying it. I find that it has more than enough power for my current 5.1.2 setup. I am currently watching tv sitting 9 feet from the screen/speakers and have the volume set at -32.0 dB. The volume range goes up to +16 dB, so it seems that I have more than enough headroom for the future.

As I noted above, I am far from any kind of expert or even well informed novice. I am just someone that wants to be able to watch movies and listen to music and have them both sound good. I am experiencing that with the A3060. I am sorry that your experience with Yamaha products has been less than you desired.

Man, I talk to much. I better end this before I take up an entire page with my nonsense.

Take care.
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post #549 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AKaudiophile View Post
Yamaha Aventage only has 35% of their claimed power output. This isn't about their features that's another debate. So changing the subject doesn't work. I have shown my source in my first post #528 for those that lie and say I haven't.

Why is it that Yamaha's amps are by far the worst on the market?
Yamaha 38% (140w Claimed - 54.2w Actual)
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...iew-test-bench
Denon 75% (150w Claimed - 113.7w Actual)
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ver-test-bench
Onkyo 83% (140w Claimed - 117.2w Actual)
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...iew-test-bench
You may not be lying, but your reading comprehension skills could be far better. What you have said each of these manufacturers have "claimed" and what they actually have claimed are two different things. Go back and read the "Specs" section of each of these AVRs. You will find the following:
Denon: Claims 150 watts x 2. Delivers 146 watts x 2 (~99% of claim)
Onkyo: Claims 140 watts x 2. Delivers 176 watts x 2 (~125% of claim)
Yamaha: Claims 140 watts x 2. Delivers 177 watts x 2 (~125% of claim)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKaudiophile View Post
Why is it that Yamaha's amps are by far the worst on the market?
This is funny because the Onkyo specifies their amp should NOT be used with 4 ohm load speakers, yet you continue to claim Yamaha amps are the worst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKaudiophile View Post
The reason I brought this up to the Yamaha owners is to see if, (A) they would actually acknowledge the problem and work to put pressure on Yamaha to address this lack in their power amps for future AVR lineups.
There is no problem to acknowledge, unless driving 2 4-ohm speakers cleanly with 250+ watts per channel is what you consider a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKaudiophile View Post
I am writing about this problem to help people who are mislead about Yamaha's and other manufactures specs. Yamaha is by far the worse offender in 2016 amongst other years. Don't take it so personally. Like some people think it's an attack on their ego. It's a friendly dose of reality that's all. You can choose to ignore the facts if you want. I just want you all to be informed and not afraid to bring up the taboo third rail point to Yamaha owners, which is their lack of power!
I think the only people who are misled are those who may be reading your posts.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #550 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RetiredandLovingIt View Post
Glad I could be of some small help.

After everyone else goes to bed, I play around with the unit and learn a little more each time. I am really falling in love with this receiver. Does way more than I will probably ever need, sounds great, and has plenty of power for my 5.1.2 setup (soon to be 5.1.4). About the farthest I will go in this regards will be 7.2.4, but that is down the road a piece.
Much the same here, Steve. Though I got behind on other stuff a week ago and also a bit tired trying to interpret this less than clear bi-amp question (ok, so it's clear -- but why so much of the Setup dedicated to bi-amp which very few use?). After your post, I went back to the Setup screen and figured out that what I need to do is exactly what I thought I needed to do before getting trapped in the bi-amp loop. Literally, with just a few minutes in the Manual Setup > Power Amp Assign, I noticed that there are not 4 red boxes but instead two outside red boxes and two inside orange boxes. That's all I needed to see to know that I was on the right track after all.

I started with a 7.2, then added 2 front overheads for 7.2.2 which is in place now. (My "overheads" are not standard, my room is not standard. I have a vaulted ceiling -- not flat -- which starts at 8' behind my tv/Fronts/FPresence and rising at 45* up to 16' just behind my main listening position. So I'm working out the physics.) My listening room starts with the vaulted ceiling, goes 12 ft to the MLP and then goes behind the MLP 12 ft to the rears. Both fronts and rears are towers so the sound emanates from about the 4 foot level. My side surrounds are JUST behind the LP about 2 ft above and 7 ft to L/R. It sounds peculiar, but it is amazingly good for audio.

What I want to do by following the BASIC Power Amp model (and before sinking more $$$ into an external amp), is try two 5.2.4 setups: one with my rear speakers as RPresence and then, two, swap connections and try my side surrounds as RPresence with the large Rear speakers as Surrounds. Not at all as Dolby or DTS envisioned, but then neither is my room. My bet is that I can get some great sounding movie audio and still retain the magnificent music audio that I currently have. If not, nothing lost -- move plugs back.

Getting the A3060 is the best thing I've done since buying a Lexicon with separates many years ago. I can always fall back on spending the money and wiring up new speakers hanging off my overhead loft just behind the main listening position to try for a 7.2.4. (But before doing that, I have some very special speakers from my younger years that have just been waiting for another audition -- more tryouts.)

So there much yet to work out. Like you, I love this AVR, and if you have any thoughts (assuming you can understand that nightmare I described), please let me know.

Rich
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post #551 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 07:30 PM
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Rich,

it sounds like you're having a lot of fun exploring all the options on your new toy.

Have you tried the WEB Browser interface with a lap top yet?

Among many other things, it allows you to save multiple speaker configurations/back ups on your laptop.
If you save your YPAO settings and manual adjustments into a memory slot on your computer,
It makes reloading your original settings a breeze if you don't like the new speaker layout results without having to re-run YPAO and your manual adjustments all over again.

The AVR can only store two speaker patterns at a time,
the WEB interface can store as many configurations as your computers hard drive can hold.

All you need is your AVR's IP address from the on screen >information>Network menu
Type the IP address into your web browser address bar on your laptop.




To get a little deeper into all the options/settings available add "/setup" after your AVR's IP Address.




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post #552 of 7182 Old 08-16-2016, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Rich,
it sounds like you're having a lot of fun exploring all the options on your new toy.

Have you tried the WEB Browser interface with a lap top yet?
...

The AVR can only store two speaker patterns at a time,
the WEB interface can store as many configurations as your computers hard drive can hold.

All you need is your AVR's IP address from the on screen settings menu
Type the IP address into your web browser address bar.

...
Man, you don't know how much I appreciate this reminder! Yes, I do know about and at time use the web interface, but frankly I had forgotten it allows more configuration saving than the Patterns. (I'll drop back to the firehose analogy...)

Your reminder is so perfectly timed it's unreal. Tonight I've dropped out of the Olympics, followed the post from Steve and then got into playing around again with the music options of this fantastic AVR. So with Pandora's Clapton channel running (once again), I'm looking through other threads here at AVS and your post comes in! Tomorrow is set aside for all the configuration and re-configuration and (thanks to you) it will be fairly easily repeatable. Here's one to you, PioM!

Edit: Ok, since this is the end of the thread right now, I'll add to it.

I AM FOREVER IN YOUR DEBT! I did NOT know of that Backup option and the full implications -- I just thought there was a place to save Setup configs. (Well, yes, there is -- DOH!) So should we ever meet, dinner is on me!

Quick note for anyone seeing this -- to get to the Setup screens, you need to include the "/" at the end of the ip address: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/setup/ .

But the Backup that PioManiac references is in the Main URL interface > Settings.

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post #553 of 7182 Old 08-17-2016, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKaudiophile View Post
I get it your okay with 54.2watts when driving just 7 out of the 9 speakers, I assume it would get even lower with 9-channels. You seem to take the facts very personal. I'm not talking about your older model from 1988 were discussing the Yamaha Aventage 2050/2060 lineup. Are you so offended I brought up the truth about Yamaha's amps from such a credible source like Sound and Vision?

You can ignore the Bench Test if you want, and make excuses while Denon and Onkyo's don't seem to be having a problem when it comes to hard loads on their amplifiers. Do you have any ties to Yamaha .....

I might not be a " rocket surgeon" as you put it. lol
What don't you understand about continuous sine wave test?

Please, seriously, please show me a movie that will play a single tone for 2 hours straight. I'll buy it off you and for everyone on this forum, 200 bucks a piece. How about that?

Once again, all you're doing is pulling off "sources" from someone else. Where is Y-O-U-R own source, you know YOUR own measurements? Can't do one?
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post #554 of 7182 Old 08-17-2016, 02:27 AM
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post #555 of 7182 Old 08-17-2016, 03:37 PM
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Enjoying my RX-A3060. Went with the ELAC ATMOS speakers and they perform well in my system.
The wife and I are hearing nuances from the 'Game of Thrones' BD discs never experienced before.

The price on the ELAC's is outstanding considering the performance and the build quality.
I recommend these to anyone looking for a quick and inexpensive way to jump into the Atmos-phere.

I demo'd the Klipsh Atmos units but they were much bigger and nearly double the cost.
If I had a great room environment, I would have gone with those .

Last edited by amatot; 08-18-2016 at 08:25 AM.
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post #556 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 08:54 AM
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Exactly the same I was looking at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by amatot View Post
Enjoying my RX-A3060. Went with the ELAC ATMOS speakers and they perform well in my system.
The wife and I are hearing nuances from the 'Game of Thrones' BD discs never experienced before.

The price on the ELAC's is outstanding considering the performance and the build quality.
I recommend these to anyone looking for a quick and inexpensive way to jump into the Atmos-phere.

I demo'd the Klipsh Atmos units but they were much bigger and nearly double the cost.
If I had a great room environment, I would have gone with those .
Just today considering either the ELAC or the KLIPSH.....ELAC ATMOS pair at approx $250...KLIPSH ATMOS pair at approx $500...didn't get the YAMAHA 3060 yet but I will be going from 5.1 to 5.1.2 very soon. Thanks for the advice
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post #557 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflorida View Post
Just today considering either the ELAC or the KLIPSH.....ELAC ATMOS pair at approx $250...KLIPSH ATMOS pair at approx $500...didn't get the YAMAHA 3060 yet but I will be going from 5.1 to 5.1.2 very soon. Thanks for the advice
YVW!

Be careful to avoid any other choices that settle for paper cones or muddled specs in your pursuits - if pricing is your driving metric.
For instance, the entry level Onkyo's or the NHT's. LOL. Paper cones to save BOM costs is a joke. I've seen Insignia™ speakers built
better than those at much lower price points albeit not specifically Atmos certified. Just making a point ...

Also be wary of the impedance spec. 5 Ohms is the sweet spot, design requirement. Def Tech A60's are rated at 8 Ohms.
I'm not quite sure how anyone can be Atmos compliant in that regard.

Best of luck on your AV adventure...
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post #558 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflorida View Post
Just today considering either the ELAC or the KLIPSH.....ELAC ATMOS pair at approx $250...KLIPSH ATMOS pair at approx $500...didn't get the YAMAHA 3060 yet but I will be going from 5.1 to 5.1.2 very soon. Thanks for the advice
So this isn't an answer, but a very relevant question based on my own thoughts and experience. There was a lot more discussion on Atmos immersive topics in the Axx50 Owners forum and in the Atmos forum and one of the things brought up was that there is not a great deal of actual content in the Atmos information (the embedded Atmos object information). It was said that when listening only to the Atmos speakers (muting the others), the volume needed to be turned up to really hear much. That doesn't mean to crank the Presence speakers up -- they were testing. (Anyone feel free to correct me -- I'm the student here.)

So given the limited "Atmos content", I have to wonder if the extra expense of the Klipsh is worthwhile. I will be looking at this in terms of my viewing environment. There are always those for whom "more expensive" is better. There are those of us with more rigid budgets who look differently at "more expensive".

I have a high vaulted ceiling to deal with -- the more speakers I place, the more difficult to manage the Atmos environment. But I have calculated (meaning eye-balled the angle and tweaked speaker placement) how to adjust for the sloped ceiling and do get a very good Atmos immersion with 7.2.2. So my questions are about the cost factor, does the hype of the ELAC and Klipsh (and others) actually mean anything? For now I've started with decent but cheap Yamaha speakers angled properly for my room and set up as "FrontPresence". Whether the "Atmos speakers" will make a difference remains to be seen. (And BTW, I would happily stack my cheap Yamahas up again most "ceiling speakers" being used for Atmos listening rooms.)

Atmos/DTS:X HT in Vaulted Room -- LG OLED Settings Options
Yamaha RX-A3060: 7.2.4 or 7.2.2 + Zone2 (switchable); OPPO 203; LG OLED65B6P; Harmony 650 & Home Hub
Base: Mirage OM-6 (FLR), MC-si (C), OM-R2 (SLR), FRx-nine (BLR)
Presence: ELAC A4s (FP), RSL C34Es (RP); 2 aci Titan subs; RP amp: AudioSource AMP100VS
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post #559 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlife View Post
So this isn't an answer, but a very relevant question based on my own thoughts and experience. There was a lot more discussion on Atmos immersive topics in the Axx50 Owners forum and in the Atmos forum and one of the things brought up was that there is not a great deal of actual content in the Atmos information (the embedded Atmos object information). It was said that when listening only to the Atmos speakers (muting the others), the volume needed to be turned up to really hear much. That doesn't mean to crank the Presence speakers up -- they were testing. (Anyone feel free to correct me -- I'm the student here.)

So given the limited "Atmos content", I have to wonder if the extra expense of the Klipsh is worthwhile. I will be looking at this in terms of my viewing environment. There are always those for whom "more expensive" is better. There are those of us with more rigid budgets who look differently at "more expensive".

I have a high vaulted ceiling to deal with -- the more speakers I place, the more difficult to manage the Atmos environment. But I have calculated (meaning eye-balled the angle and tweaked speaker placement) how to adjust for the sloped ceiling and do get a very good Atmos immersion with 7.2.2. So my questions are about the cost factor, does the hype of the ELAC and Klipsh (and others) actually mean anything? For now I've started with decent but cheap Yamaha speakers angled properly for my room and set up as "FrontPresence". Whether the "Atmos speakers" will make a difference remains to be seen. (And BTW, I would happily stack my cheap Yamahas up again most "ceiling speakers" being used for Atmos listening rooms.)
For me the change from 7.1 to 7.1.4 has been MUCH bigger and better than the change from 5.1 to 7.1! In fact, I would choose 5.1.4 over 7.1 anytime of the week.

I use four XTZ Atmosphere S2. Very nice units with an angled design that fits perfectly for ceiling (or wall) use.



Atmos or DTS:X is best of course but many good 5.1 and 7.1 movies sound excellent in "upsampling" Dolby Surround or Neural:X
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post #560 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 11:12 AM
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Dragnet -- I too thought that the upgrade from 7.1 to 7.1.4 was much more dramatic than the upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1 had been. Recently, I watched my BD quality file of the wonderful musical, Chicago, which has a a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 soundtrack. When I matrixed the native 7.1 soundtrack to 7.1.4, by using the Cinema DSP HD3 codec built in to my Yamaha RX-A3060, the three-dimensional effect was sensational. It wasn't quite as good as some of the native Atmos audio I have heard was, but it was very very good nevertheless.
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HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #561 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amatot View Post
...
I demo'd the Klipsh Atmos units but they were much bigger and nearly double the cost.
If I had a great room environment, I would have gone with those .
Unless I can try and A/B on these, it's hard to say which will be best. With limited research, both look to have good build quality. But if you look at the Atmos speaker threads, one of the ideals is for the Atmos speaker to have a sort of focused "beam" to better reflect sound from the ceiling. If you are wall mounting and the speakers are directed at your seating position, this may be less important. If, as in my case, you will be "reflecting" off the ceiling, that focus is more important and it looks like the concentric design of the ELAC might be better.

But there are lots and lots of opinions and the more you read the more confused you may become. Or maybe more convinced that "you" are right.

If you're just starting, try this post and then the thread and go from there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/301-av...l#post42365097

Atmos/DTS:X HT in Vaulted Room -- LG OLED Settings Options
Yamaha RX-A3060: 7.2.4 or 7.2.2 + Zone2 (switchable); OPPO 203; LG OLED65B6P; Harmony 650 & Home Hub
Base: Mirage OM-6 (FLR), MC-si (C), OM-R2 (SLR), FRx-nine (BLR)
Presence: ELAC A4s (FP), RSL C34Es (RP); 2 aci Titan subs; RP amp: AudioSource AMP100VS
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post #562 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 12:09 PM
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RX-A1060 RS-232 control

I want to control a RX-A1060 mute function via it's RS-232c connection.
To send the serial commands I am using a Hall Research HR-4P with null modem cable between the devices.

I am doing something wrong because I cannot get the 1060 to respond.

To MUTE the receiver I am using the serial command of:
"@MAIN:MUTE=Off" quotes removed

I have confirmed that the HR-4P is sending the above command by using Termite, a simple RS232 terminal.

Port Settings:
Baud rate : 9600
Data bits : 8
Parity : No
Stop bit : 1 bit
Handshaking : None

(If this question belongs elsewhere, please advise)

Last edited by Allen G; 08-18-2016 at 12:13 PM.
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post #563 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlife View Post
Unless I can try and A/B on these, it's hard to say which will be best. With limited research, both look to have good build quality. But if you look at the Atmos speaker threads, one of the ideals is for the Atmos speaker to have a sort of focused "beam" to better reflect sound from the ceiling. If you are wall mounting and the speakers are directed at your seating position, this may be less important. If, as in my case, you will be "reflecting" off the ceiling, that focus is more important and it looks like the concentric design of the ELAC might be better.

But there are lots and lots of opinions and the more you read the more confused you may become. Or maybe more convinced that "you" are right.

If you're just starting, try this post and then the thread and go from there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/301-av...l#post42365097

I personally steer clear of too much of the prevailing opinion streams when it comes to formulating my own choices. 'Editors' and prognosticators
dig too many holes and form too many mosh-pits of useless banter if not filtered properly by the reader. I rely much more on my experience in mechanical engineering as it relates to acoustics and by empirical try-and-error. It's bad enough that hearing is highly subjective by design, but everyone's acoustical spaces are uniquely different which makes things more complicated & reduces guidance to nothing more than suggestions. When it comes to home audio and AV, let your own eyes & ears be your guide is my reigning motto. It's not about being right - it's about being satisfied ultimately.

I do recognize though that there are way over-the-top solutions not suited to the average home theater setup as well as attempts to enter the marketplace by companies with junk offerings that offer convenience and savings over real performance when it comes to 'Atmos' ...
or DTS-X for that matter.

The link you posted may be useful to others that stumble into this thread. I skimmed that one already ... but thanks.
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Last edited by amatot; 08-18-2016 at 12:34 PM.
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post #564 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen G View Post
I want to control a RX-A1060 mute function via it's RS-232c connection.
To send the serial commands I am using a Hall Research HR-4P with null modem cable between the devices.

I am doing something wrong because I cannot get the 1060 to respond.

To MUTE the receiver I am using the serial command of:
"@MAIN:MUTE=Off" quotes removed

I have confirmed that the HR-4P is sending the above command by using Termite, a simple RS232 terminal.

Port Settings:
Baud rate : 9600
Data bits : 8
Parity : No
Stop bit : 1 bit
Handshaking : None

(If this question belongs elsewhere, please advise)
Don't know the Hall unit but try without the null modem or use a straight cable.
A null modem changes DCE into DTE and vice versa.
(A real modem is DCE.)

A computer (serial port) usually is a DTE device. That would have me assume that the Yamaha also is a DTE device, thus the need for null modem. But your Hall unit might be confgured as an DCE device.

Please post your findings
I have a Pronto controller that can send serial commands and I have been thinking of looking into using it for my 3060 later on.
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post #565 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlife View Post
Unless I can try and A/B on these, it's hard to say which will be best. With limited research, both look to have good build quality. But if you look at the Atmos speaker threads, one of the ideals is for the Atmos speaker to have a sort of focused "beam" to better reflect sound from the ceiling. If you are wall mounting and the speakers are directed at your seating position, this may be less important. If, as in my case, you will be "reflecting" off the ceiling, that focus is more important and it looks like the concentric design of the ELAC might be better.

But there are lots and lots of opinions and the more you read the more confused you may become. Or maybe more convinced that "you" are right.

If you're just starting, try this post and then the thread and go from there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/301-av...l#post42365097

I use 4 Klipsch RP-140SA speakers installed high on the side walls (near the ceiling) and use them for my 5.1.4
Atmos setup with the 3060. The build quality on these speakers are excellent and I'm very happy with how they
perform as Atmos height layer in my configuration. These speakers already are angling down into the seating
positions so I didn't have to angle them more when installing. My ceiling height is normal about 8' so this setup
works really well.
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post #566 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 01:16 PM
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In a PM, aflorida asked: Question: Can the MOVIE/ YAMAHA modes like Adventure...Sci-Fi..etc be used with STRAIGHT or DOLBY SURROUND (DSP)and can they NOT be used at all if you dont want these YAMAHA movie modes at all?

For any who care (and for any error checking), this was my response: Again, this is why hands-on is so important. What you said is right [describing STRAIGHT vs DSP modes], but it's not until you have the REMOTE that you can immediately see that STRAIGHT is a on/off toggle -- you switch to it (perhaps from DSP) and then back again with repeated button presses. If you have DISPLAY on, you can see this and related info on screen. If STRAIGHT is off, then you can bump one by one through all the DSP modes and DSU (Dolby Surround Upmix). When you get to DSU, you can then bump through the Upmix modes. Look at the remote -- you'll find buttons for STRAIGHT, SUR DECODE (DSU), and the Up/Down PROGRAM (DSP) options. STRAIGHT overrides all, Program, will bring you to DSU which then enables those modes. Hands on with DISPLAY will explain all in minutes.

Edit: For some, this may be a moot point, but one of the first things I noticed about the A3060, is that it has a full complement of function buttons under the front panel. That is, many manufacturers today put all the function on the remote but only a small portion of those functions are implemented on the actual device. Two very different examples are the Directv receivers and the Lexicon DC1 DSP/av controller that I used to have. If you lost the remote (or it stopped working properly, i.e. the DC1 remote), you are faced with limited function or finding and buying a new remote -- sometimes not so easy. As I remember (not totally sure), even my Yamaha A820 did not have a full function front panel. Regardless, I thought it was just one more positive when I opened up the A3060.

Atmos/DTS:X HT in Vaulted Room -- LG OLED Settings Options
Yamaha RX-A3060: 7.2.4 or 7.2.2 + Zone2 (switchable); OPPO 203; LG OLED65B6P; Harmony 650 & Home Hub
Base: Mirage OM-6 (FLR), MC-si (C), OM-R2 (SLR), FRx-nine (BLR)
Presence: ELAC A4s (FP), RSL C34Es (RP); 2 aci Titan subs; RP amp: AudioSource AMP100VS

Last edited by richlife; 08-18-2016 at 01:26 PM.
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post #567 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 02:05 PM
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Advise

Hi all, need some advise.
I bought a Denon 2200X in March or so and I'm not real keen on the sound qty compar d to my older Denon 2112CI. Now that being said I am toying with the upgrade bug again and was thinking if I'm going to upgrade again so soon I might as well go big. So I am liking the features of the Yamaha 2060 and I am aware the Yammy has lots more power per channel then the 2200X I currently have , I owned a low end Yammy ( $350 range) back in 2010 and hated the sound compared to the Denon I had back then so went back to Denon. Do you guys think I'll enjoy the sound qty of the high end 2060 more then the current Denon 2200x?
The sound (Movies first music second) is what's the most important to me.

I have PSB X2T towers and Imiage XC center and Imiage XA up front.

60" Samsung KS-8000
Oppo 203 UHBD
Denon X6300H eceiver
PSB X series 7.2.4
SVS Dual PB-1000
SVS Prime Elevation
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post #568 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 05:05 PM
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Hi folks, I thought I'd post my experience and add to the thread to help any future Yamaha owners out. I recently had my Onkyo TX-SR875 die on me. The audio was still fine but the video was toast. My friend also had an Onkyo and his died on him 3 times. The first two times they fixed it under warranty and then the third time they told him it wasn't covered. Therefore I wasn't too happy with Onkyo so I started looking at other products.

I have a pair of tower fronts that are 4 ohm Polk Lsi15 speakers. This was the original reason I had the Onkyo as it was recommended to me for it's ability to handle 4 ohm without having to run an amp. I also run a 7.1 setup. I use my system mainly for watching blu-ray movies, playing Xbox One, and watching TV.

I started looking at the Yamaha lineup and the a2060 and a3060 really jumped out at me. I ended up pulling the trigger on the a3060 and I can confirm that they work great with my 4 ohm speakers and the rest of my setup.

I'm in Canada, so our pricing is a bit different up here due to the exchange rate, but I was able to get the receiver for approximately $2299.00 Canadian dollars before tax from Advance Electronics here in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

I have tested the receiver out with various sources and I can definitely hear the difference. I feel that this new AVR really uses my speakers like the Onkyo never could.

Hopefully this information will be useful to anyone looking for a new AVR that has 4 ohm speakers and no amp.

-Cheers, RP

Sony XBR65X900E, Yamaha RX-A3060
Polk LSi15, CS2, and PSW505 12" Subwoofer, Sony UBP-X800, PS4 Pro, XBOX One X
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post #569 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rparamount View Post
Hi folks, I thought I'd post my experience and add to the thread to help any future Yamaha owners out. I recently had my Onkyo TX-SR875 die on me. The audio was still fine but the video was toast. My friend also had an Onkyo and his died on him 3 times. The first two times they fixed it under warranty and then the third time they told him it wasn't covered. Therefore I wasn't too happy with Onkyo so I started looking at other products.
Onkyo has a terrible quality record.
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post #570 of 7182 Old 08-18-2016, 08:21 PM
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Funny, that's the same thing that happened to my Onkyo. They fixed it once, then about 4 months later, it would just shut down on its own. I'd wake up the next morning, it would be on. WTF?

I bought the Pioneer SC-95, then the Yamaha 2060 and compared them. I liked aspects of both. But the Yamaha was just too bright. The Pioneer was softer, and had a good dynamic sound and separation. So I sent the Yamaha back, plus I took the SC-95 back to Best buy and swapped it out for an SC-97.

I feel I made the right choice for me. I'm sure some like the upper register of the Yamaha, but with my speakers , it would get fatiguing pretty fast. I thank everyone in this thread for the great insight and help.
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