Originally Posted by tedhontz
Hi, you might have a voltage issue as well. I have two different Monster models. Both have bright indicator lights but one of them has a voltage VU meter that is hard to see until you go up to look at it. My other monster unit displays the voltage and amps in nice big bright red digits. Since I watch it every day, I noticed that it goes as low as 118 and as high as 122. That is normal. After the surges three weeks ago, my voltage was all over the place but never high, it kept going as high as 122 which is normal. The problem is that it was dipping really low, sometimes staying around 110.2 volts for the entire day. I thought it was weird but I never was alarmed because while I do know a decent amount about audio and video, I admit that I know nothing about electricity itself. I was only worried when the "abnormal voltage" red light started flashing on and off. My voltage on the low side was 124.8 and on high was 126.6. I noticed when the voltage dropped below 125, the red light would stop blinking and when it would go over 125, the red light would start blinking again. Since the electric company came out and did something to fix the voltage problem, not only is it not going too high, but I no longer have it dipping really low either. Before, my voltage was going between 110.2 to 126.6. Now ever since the voltage fix, the voltage at it's lowest has been 118.4 and the highest it's been is 121.8. As I'm typing this to you, it is settled on 121.6 and hasn't moved. That is completely normal. I would highly advise that you have your local power company come out. My power company was here within 10 minutes of me calling. Customer service told me that if they checked everything out and found nothing wrong, they would have to charge me a $38 service trip fee. I felt it was worth $38 for peace of mind. And if the power company would've said there was nothing wrong, then I would've really been worried about the high voltage. So I highly recommend you have your power company over. Now yeah the power company didn't fix all my issues and I have many, but they did fix the voltage issue.
I have a friend that works at a local high end audio shop. It's basically the only one in my city and they specialize in coming over to people's houses and they do custom setups and other things like that. I buy pallets of electronics at a time. And at other times I buy or bid on individual items. I have heard the JL Fathom 113v2. But isn't it like $4700 for one? I've heard it before and for a 13.5 inch sub, it is really amazing. I've had a SVS PB13Ultra and I thought it was decent as well. I buy and sell but selling certain things online is difficult, for example, heavy subs. So I have many gently used subs and speakers at my friend's shop. I give him a percentage of the sale. I love testing high end subs just to see how good they are. I currently have a REL sub that really blew me away. I like a lot of bass in my music and my old subs were flooded in my last home so insurance gave me the OK to get four new subs. Power Sound Audio is a sponsor of AVS and a vendor of AVS. I read their thread and it seems everyone thinks their subs are amazing, so I bought four of their 18" subs. I am really disappointed in them. I've used them on a Denon receiver and the bass was ok but my regular speakers sounded suffocated on the Denon. I switched to a Sony ES STR-ZA5000ES receiver and the front speakers sound amazing again but now I'm having problems with the subwoofers sounding right. On both receivers I've had to turn the gain up on all 4 subs to about 90% plus bump up the gain in the receiver. And on most music, there isn't enough bass IMO. But then on a certain song, if the song has an ultra low bass note, the subs come alive for a few seconds, and about tear the room in half with overpowering notes. On movies, again not much bass until something big happens and depending on that movie, when something big happens, the subs are overpowering. It seems the subs love to hit on really low frequencies but don't do much at all on normal lower frequencies. Maybe this is a nice way of saying these subs aren't musical. Now I bought the Yamaha 3060 with high hopes of getting the subs to sound better. But honestly I don't like my subs. I've learned that I shouldn't of listened to everyone on the Power Sound Audio thread. Everyone said they were amazing and I just don't agree. I posted on the Power Sound Audio thread and not only is it ran by their product owners, but the two owners of Power Sound Audio are on the thread and very active. I mentioned that I have to turn up my subs, all 4, to 90% gain and they still don't pump out enough. I mentioned that the subs hit hard on ultra low notes but they aren't "tight" and have no punch to them. Instead of anyone helping me, not only did multiple Power Sound Audio people on the thread tell me I was lying, but the owners of Power Sound Audio were really disappointing. They basically laughed and mocked me and refused to offer any advice. Obviously it's a very biased thread. So I wish I would've went with smaller drivers because I think the 18" drivers can't hit tight enough. If I can't get good subwoofer performance using the Yamaha 3060, I think I am going to take the 4 Power Sound Audio subwoofers to my friend's shop and sell all 4. My 4 subs are basically brand new and I know I'll take a hit on having to sell them used, but I want to be happy and I'm currently not. So after I get all the power problems fixed, then I'm going to setup the Yamaha and then mess with the subs to hopefully get them the way I want. Here is a pic of the front part of my room. Right now it's all torn down again because I needed to get back to the outlet and then plan to setup the Yamaha when it is safe too. My front mains look like basic Klipsch but they are much larger in person. They are the biggest Klipsch but the 18" subs make the dual 10's on the Klipsch look small. The Klipsch models are reference RF-7. They have been made off and on for over 20 years now. The are selling on eBay for about $3000 and they ship on a pallet. Previously I was using Definitive Tech flagship models and I like the Klipsch better. Before the Definitives I used a pair of KEF Q900s and again I prefer the Klipsch, and I've never been a Klipsch fan.
Currently I'm not too concerned about the voltage, but what you mentioned about the power company coming over and that low amount they charged sounded interesting. Though I have been told by the people that sold me the power conditioner that the power in Arizona is not really reliable (as far as voltage is concerned.) (I really don't know if that's true or not.) Voltage is one thing, having electricity is another. I've only seen the power go out like once every couple years or so, and actually it seems like less than that...I actually can't remember the when the electricity went out around here, however I do remember when it did, it was only off for less than 10 minutes. What I'm more concerned about is when the voltage goes below 115V. I'll call the electric company and ask them a few questions about that and see what they say. As far as electricity around my house, it seems to be fine. I have not had any electrical components go out over and over again because of some sort of issue with the electricity, wiring etc.
Yes, you are correct about the cost of the JL Fathom 113v2. Originally I was going to get a pair of Seaton SubMersives as they are a incredible value, but my availability and time was an issue, so I went with the pair of Fathoms. I went with them because the delivery and set up could be taken care of by the same local company where I originally bought them, along with the fact I of course wouldn't have to do any of the heavy lifting. There was in fact no effort on my part (that was really nice!) I totally relate with what you were saying about SVS (I had considered a pair of those) and considered a pair of Power Sound Audio. In the end, I decided to just spend the extra money on the JLs, as I was tired of reading about how to get more bass from bass heads as they keep saying there's never such a thing as too much bass. Well maybe not, but then then of course there's the issue of quality...and that of course comes at a cost. Well I feel there's a point where the bass can eventually muddy up (get in the way of) the higher frequencies in the midrange and higher frequency drivers. Maybe that can be equalized out, and maybe that can work well with more substantial main speakers, but every time when the bass is turned up (even a little bit) too loud, at least on my system it gets in the way of the clarity of what's going on.
You mentioned REL. Within my system currently sits a REL Stadium II sub I bought some years ago and it went out something like four or five years ago. Currently it's used as a table behind the cabinetry so I can place my older Monster Power unit (the same one you have!) and a Satellite receiver on it so I can have room to place my older Adcom amp along the top of my main cabinetry along the left side of the system.
To address what you were saying about your subs not being loud enough, I've noticed with music, your right; mainly the bass should be balanced with the rest of the music...almost as if there may not be substantial low frequencies you would think you would get if you have dedicated subs. Of course you could turn them up, but then the bass might overpower the rest of the recorded material. Of course that all depends on how it was mixed and mastered. Movies generally have lower and more powerful bass, and of course certain types of music can also have some powerful bass.
Ideally the subs should blend and pretty much disappear with the rest of the system. In that case if there's some really loud bass, it was simply the way it was mixed in the recording. Many times during regular music material, you really don't notice the subs too much unless you turn them off and all of a sudden everything falls flat and sounds thin. Too much bass and everything sounds boomy and unnatural. Once the subs are balanced with the rest of the system, it's very desirable (with many) to want to run the subs a little hot...maybe by a couple, or three decibels above the rest of the system. Currently that's how mine are set up. Others will probably want more, but when adjusting subs; just listen and make sure the bass does not make the rest of the audio recording sound less detailed.
Please remember my system won't be professionally calibrated for at least a month or so, but even so, I mainly adjusted the sub levels to match my other speakers, and bumped them up about two decibels. I even set the distance to be 26' 9" for a rough phase adjustment. If your subs are even with your mains, set your electronic distance setting on the subs to be 12 feet further away from your mains. Because my subs are set closer to my listening area than my mains, I had to add another foot or more (additional) distance to compensate for their placement. (There's more that needs to be done, but I'm only doing a rough setup so I can at least enjoy the subs till the rest of the system is professionally calibrated.) Yea I know that sounds confusing, but subs react differently than main speakers. There's about a 12 millisecond delay with subs, (at least with the JLs) so to compensate, for every millisecond delay, a foot of electronic distance setting in the receiver needs to be added for the subs to be timed correctly with the rest of the system. This forces the subs to start 12 milliseconds sooner than the rest of the system, but at least the audio waves will be timed and the audio from all speakers will all arrive to your ears at the same time...assuming you have the rest of your speaker distance settings set. If the subs are closer to you than your mains, like one foot closer, then the distance would need to be set 13' further than your mains. Your subs look like they are pretty much even with your mains. They are angled a little bit however, so if your subs turn out to be about a half inch closer to you than your mains, set your subs to be 12' 5" further than your mains. If your mains are 10' away from you, that would equal out to a setting of 22' 5" for your sub distance setting in your receiver.
At least on my system, turning up the bass makes the audio system sound unbalanced. And like what you were saying; it mostly only plays moderately with the rest of the system till, or at least there's a lower bass note that all of a sudden overpowers everything and it's like the whole room (and my body) is shaking (and I'm on a cement floor that's covered by carpet, and my couch is also firmly planted on that same carpet (that's also on top of the same cement.) If I had a wooden floor, or if my couch was supported on some sort of wooden base, the bass effect would be greater. Also, the fact I went from one 10" ported sub, to two sealed 13.5" drivers takes a little bit of adjusting to get used to. The sealed subs don't constantly give me that air movement I was used to with the ported sub. However there were some really low bass notes that really surprised me when my body shook along with my house! Not only that, the level of that bass note was much louder than what was heard with the rest of the same song. Of course there's other songs I listened to that had some powerful low fast moving bass notes, and the JLs commanded those notes effortlessly in a way my older REL wouldn't be able to handle in the same way. Now of course that effect could be standing waves at a certain frequencies, (I think standing waves is when the sound from the bass is louder as apposed to canceling waves.) If that's what really going on, I hope of course that will all be taken care of and be more balanced when the calibration is taken care of. I do want to say that one note however (which I talk about below) is louder not because of a standing wave, but because I can clearly see the sub moving more than at other times. It really is moving more air.
Just for the heck of it, if you have the Dark Side of the Moon SACD, check out "Time" at the 2:09 mark. If you have the regular CD of Dark Side of the Moon, the same effect should be the same at the same spot of the same song, but the timing mark might be different on a regular CD.
To keep on topic with this thread, you can see in a couple of the pictures my Yamaha 3060 on the table that will replace my older Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver in about a month.