The "Official" Yamaha RX-A1060, RX-A2060 and RX-A3060 AVENTAGE AVR Thread - Page 97 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2881 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Mecak View Post
Dolby ProLogic II and IIx were removed in the RX-A3060 line, so the only licenced matrix decoder now is the DTS Neo:6 one when using Enhanced and other DSP modes like Sci-Fi etc. for upmixing 2 channel content. You cannot use Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X as a surround decoder for "Enhanced" or DSP modes like Sci-Fi etc.

You are correct in that the app does not allow you to select what TYPE of Surround Decoder to use. Yamaha need to fix this in a revised app version. (And also need to fix this in SCENES, where the Type of Surround decoder also cannot be chosen).

Cheers,

Craig.
Is Neo:6 what is used to derive the rear channels when the signal is 5.1 or does the Yamaha DSP itself generate the signal for the rears? I am new to yamaha and am not sure. I don't know if their DSP just generates height info or also creates the rears?
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post #2882 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
Is Neo:6 what is used to derive the rear channels when the signal is 5.1 or does the Yamaha DSP itself generate the signal for the rears? I am new to yamaha and am not sure. I don't know if their DSP just generates height info or also creates the rears?


Yes the Neo:6 decoder is generating the signal for the rears (and centre if required) then the Yamaha DSP (Enhanced for example on the 3060) is generating the height information.
Personally I prefer the Dolby Surround decoder (no DSP) for a Dolby Stereo signal, call me crazy but I feel like using Dolby's algorithm to upmix a Dolby signal makes the most sense.


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post #2883 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dashcam88 View Post
Yes the Neo:6 decoder is generating the signal for the rears (and centre if required) then the Yamaha DSP (Enhanced for example on the 3060) is generating the height information.
Personally I prefer the Dolby Surround decoder (no DSP) for a Dolby Stereo signal, call me crazy but I feel like using Dolby's algorithm to upmix a Dolby signal makes the most sense.


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Thanks. Just to be clear, I am not talking about a stereo signal. I am asking about 5.1. I have a 7.1.4 setup. When I watch a Blu ray that is a 5.1 mix whether it be DTS or Dolby and I turn on Enhanced DSP how are the 2 surround back channels generated?
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post #2884 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
Thanks. Just to be clear, I am not talking about a stereo signal. I am asking about 5.1. I have a 7.1.4 setup. When I watch a Blu ray that is a 5.1 mix whether it be DTS or Dolby and I turn on Enhanced DSP how are the 2 surround back channels generated?
The reason I ask the question is because NEO:6 generates mono rear surrounds. If the DSP has mono surround backs, that would be a reason to lean towards Dolby Surround or Neural:X for upmixing.
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post #2885 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 08:33 AM
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The "Official" Yamaha RX-A1060, RX-A2060 and RX-A3060 AVENTAGE AVR Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
Thanks. Just to be clear, I am not talking about a stereo signal. I am asking about 5.1. I have a 7.1.4 setup. When I watch a Blu ray that is a 5.1 mix whether it be DTS or Dolby and I turn on Enhanced DSP how are the 2 surround back channels generated?


Same thing, by the Neo:6 decoder. (As a mono channel of course)


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post #2886 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dashcam88 View Post
Same thing, by the Neo:6 decoder. (As a mono channel of course)


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Thanks. That means the 2 rears surrounds receive the same signal when using the Yamaha DSP with anything less than a 7.1 mix.
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post #2887 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 06:57 PM
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For anyone pc gaming that can't select full range rgb at 60hz...

In standby mode, press straight and then the main zone button to get to the advanced menu, then use program across to highlight '4k mode' then press straight to change it from mode 2 to mode 1.

I could only select 420 colour with my old high speed cable, which should be 18gb...so I ordered a new cable and had the same problem. I could get 4k with full rgb at 60hz directly to the tv but not through the receiver, even with an 18gb cable. I rang the store I bought it from and they tried to say there was no solution or that it would be limited to 24hz because 4k movies are 24hz....I explained that the yamaha website said 444 colour and had no refresh rate qualifier of 24hz written there, when I rang yamaha the guy I spoke to sorted it out in 2 minutes.

Just thought I'd post in case other people have been posting misinformation as my store did, steering me away from a very simple solution.
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post #2888 of 7182 Old 01-18-2017, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
For anyone pc gaming that can't select full range rgb at 60hz...

In standby mode, press straight and then the main zone button to get to the advanced menu, then use program across to highlight '4k mode' then press straight to change it from mode 2 to mode 1.

I could only select 420 colour with my old high speed cable, which should be 18gb...so I ordered a new cable and had the same problem. I could get 4k with full rgb at 60hz directly to the tv but not through the receiver, even with an 18gb cable. I rang the store I bought it from and they tried to say there was no solution or that it would be limited to 24hz because 4k movies are 24hz....I explained that the yamaha website said 444 colour and had no refresh rate qualifier of 24hz written there, when I rang yamaha the guy I spoke to sorted it out in 2 minutes.

Just thought I'd post in case other people have been posting misinformation as my store did, steering me away from a very simple solution.
This has been explained countless times in this thread and 2015's xx50 models thread.

I think we need to plaster a huge sticky on the front page or something regarding the 4k mode on Yamaha's receivers. It's a very mind boggling solution that can be rectified in seconds. Furthermore it's written in the manual, which somehow 99% users don't ever read for some reason.
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post #2889 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Furthermore it's written in the manual, which somehow 99% users don't ever read for some reason.
Truth. Nearly every Q&A in this thread can be found in the Owners manual. I find that more mind boggling than any solution.
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post #2890 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Truth. Nearly every Q&A in this thread can be found in the Owners manual. I find that more mind boggling than any solution.
Years ago when I first joined the forum, I would constantly be saying either use the "Search this thread" feature or RTFM. Now after doing this for awhile, I simply provide the answer (although do list the page number if possible as well) as most prefer to do neither a Search nor read the manual.
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post #2891 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 04:02 AM
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Good evening all,

Fist time post on AVS, pleased to meet you all.

I was wondering if someone could assist with a question I have.

I recently purchased an RX-A2060 for use in my dedicated theatre room, running an overhead projector @ 2.35:1.

What I would like to do is attach a 2nd monitor, the monitor is one of my spare PC monitors, a 24" 1920x1280.

The purpose of the monitor is so that if I wish to play music, whatever the source input, I can easily switch the monitor on and display settings, music info etc.
rather than warm up the projector and waste bulb life just to view some information.

I have already tried connecting the monitor via the HDMI 2 output, whereas the projector is on HDMI 1. The problem I had was there was quite a distinguishable picture quality loss from the projector output while both were connected, this I could confirm when disconnecting the HDMI 2 connection.

Would anyone know if what I am trying to do isn't possible or if it is, then what am I doing wrong? should I be connecting in some other manor?

P.S The PC monitor was connected via an HDMI-DVI cable.


Thanks all.
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post #2892 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by G33zzer View Post
Good evening all,

Fist time post on AVS, pleased to meet you all.

I was wondering if someone could assist with a question I have.

I recently purchased an RX-A2060 for use in my dedicated theatre room, running an overhead projector @ 2.35:1.

What I would like to do is attach a 2nd monitor, the monitor is one of my spare PC monitors, a 24" 1920x1280.

The purpose of the monitor is so that if I wish to play music, whatever the source input, I can easily switch the monitor on and display settings, music info etc.
rather than warm up the projector and waste bulb life just to view some information.

I have already tried connecting the monitor via the HDMI 2 output, whereas the projector is on HDMI 1. The problem I had was there was quite a distinguishable picture quality loss from the projector output while both were connected, this I could confirm when disconnecting the HDMI 2 connection.

Would anyone know if what I am trying to do isn't possible or if it is, then what am I doing wrong? should I be connecting in some other manor?

P.S The PC monitor was connected via an HDMI-DVI cable.


Thanks all.

Try setting the resolution of the PC monitor to a standard TV resolution (ie. 1920 x 1080).
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Hi all, I am thinking of getting a a3060 when the price is just right. I have 2 questions first.

I already have dedicated amps for the main 7 channels. Can the 3060 be set up to run it's internal amps for the 4 (height Atmos) speakers?

Also, if I am watching a 5.1 or 7.1 movie, is there a surround DSP that I can select to use the .4 height speakers?

Thanks in advance,
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post #2894 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post
Hi all, I am thinking of getting a a3060 when the price is just right. I have 2 questions first.



I already have dedicated amps for the main 7 channels. Can the 3060 be set up to run it's internal amps for the 4 (height Atmos) speakers?



Also, if I am watching a 5.1 or 7.1 movie, is there a surround DSP that I can select to use the .4 height speakers?



Thanks in advance,

WMD


Both these questions were just answered in the last two or three pages of the thread.
Regardless, yes and yes.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by G33zzer View Post
Good evening all,

Fist time post on AVS, pleased to meet you all.

I was wondering if someone could assist with a question I have.

I recently purchased an RX-A2060 for use in my dedicated theatre room, running an overhead projector @ 2.35:1.

What I would like to do is attach a 2nd monitor, the monitor is one of my spare PC monitors, a 24" 1920x1280.

The purpose of the monitor is so that if I wish to play music, whatever the source input, I can easily switch the monitor on and display settings, music info etc.
rather than warm up the projector and waste bulb life just to view some information.

I have already tried connecting the monitor via the HDMI 2 output, whereas the projector is on HDMI 1. The problem I had was there was quite a distinguishable picture quality loss from the projector output while both were connected, this I could confirm when disconnecting the HDMI 2 connection.

Would anyone know if what I am trying to do isn't possible or if it is, then what am I doing wrong? should I be connecting in some other manor?

P.S The PC monitor was connected via an HDMI-DVI cable.


Thanks all.
You may wind up needing to create 2 separate SCENE setups, one for each HDMI output. Having them both on at the same time is likely to cause issues.
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post #2896 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Mecak View Post
Dolby ProLogic II and IIx were removed in the RX-A3060 line, so the only licenced matrix decoder now is the DTS Neo:6 one when using Enhanced and other DSP modes like Sci-Fi etc. for upmixing 2 channel content. You cannot use Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X as a surround decoder for "Enhanced" or DSP modes like Sci-Fi etc.

You are correct in that the app does not allow you to select what TYPE of Surround Decoder to use. Yamaha need to fix this in a revised app version. (And also need to fix this in SCENES, where the Type of Surround decoder also cannot be chosen).

Cheers,

Craig.
Is this true? Why would they remove features??? Is this not a step backwards?

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post #2897 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 03:13 PM
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Is this true? Why would they remove features??? Is this not a step backwards?
Nothing was "removed". Dolby has abandoned the old PLIIx decoder in favor of the new DD Surround decoder, which does the same thing.
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post #2898 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Nothing was "removed". Dolby has abandoned the old PLIIx decoder in favor of the new DD Surround decoder, which does the same thing.
Furthermore, Yamaha's 7.2.4 Enhanced DSP does the same thing the DD surround decoder does, only more so
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Furthermore, Yamaha's 7.2.4 Enhanced DSP does the same thing the DD surround decoder does, only more so
I assume Enhanced works with 2.0 music. How do you like it in that respect?
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
I assume Enhanced works with 2.0 music. How do you like it in that respect?
Enhanced works with 2.0 inputs too. It matrixes such input to 7.2.4, or whatever speaker arrangement you have very well.

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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
I assume Enhanced works with 2.0 music. How do you like it in that respect?
Truly spectacular. It's like everything else -- there are some recordings that are simply affected only minimally. But there are some that you may have trouble recognizing that it was not originally some surround mix.

But keep in mind, if I'm sitting listening (rather than just having music on while reading or whatever), I have my A3060 set to start with Enhanced, but will flip through the upmixers just in case I find one is better or more pleasing right then (if so, that is usually Neural:X). Sometimes for perversity sake, I just like to listen to 9-Ch for a difference. But that's due to the "full" effect of having all pairs of speakers outputting stereo.

Now having an OPPO 203 has also provided a new experience for me with SACD discs and the unique mixes provided for 5.1 surround. It's definitely NOT just a sound like Enhanced. Nor are the mixes the same as, for example, a 5.1 bluray. For a music lover, the A3060/OPPO combo is pretty amazing. I'm sure there are other playback devices that work well with the Yamahas also.
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post #2902 of 7182 Old 01-19-2017, 06:18 PM
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^^^^Thanks guys
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How do you do this? Anytime I change the input to a music source the tv picture goes away.

thanks
I run the video signal from a laptop via HDMI directly to my Samsung, and I funnel audio through the receiver. I don't actually run any HDMI through the receiver, and the only output from the receiver is for the Yamaha's display. Everything is managed through a Harmony Elite system triggered by Alexa or the remote.
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post #2904 of 7182 Old 01-20-2017, 05:47 AM
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I think you guys got a few things mixed up here. DPL2 (or DPL2x/z) and DD are two different things. DD (Dolby Digital, or its successors: True HD, Atmos) are decoding methods used for pre-encoded discrete multi-channel formats. DPL2 is an enhancement matrix decoder used to extract multi-channel from lower number of channels (2 or 5.1).

Dolby never abandoned DPL2. Because licensing for the competitive equivalent DTS formats (DTS-Neo 6 and Neural X) is cheaper, while both technologies offer the same results (Neural X can decode DD 2.0 into artificial 7.1 multi-channels), Yamaha decided to cut pricing by dropping Dolby's matrix decoding methods (just like Onkyo dropped Audyssey RC for their own EasyEQ RC, which sucks BTW). So we get more new features for less cost.

I personally compared both DTS Neo 6 and Dolby DPL2 and came to a conclusion that for movie modes, they provide the exact same results, while for music mode, DTS Neo-6 does a better job than DPL2.

You can live o/w DPL2 if you have DTS Neo and Neural plus Yamaha Cinema DSP processing modes.
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post #2905 of 7182 Old 01-20-2017, 05:58 AM
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I actually hate DTS Neo:6 Music -- To my ear it sounds distorted. I wouldn't buy an AVR if it didn't offer DPL2 Music .

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post #2906 of 7182 Old 01-20-2017, 06:20 AM
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I never liked neo6 either.
Its designed for a single back surround speaker for one thing. Hence neo6 instead of neo7.
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post #2907 of 7182 Old 01-20-2017, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
I think you guys got a few things mixed up here. DPL2 (or DPL2x/z) and DD are two different things. DD (Dolby Digital, or its successors: True HD, Atmos) are decoding methods used for pre-encoded discrete multi-channel formats. DPL2 is an enhancement matrix decoder used to extract multi-channel from lower number of channels (2 or 5.1).

Dolby never abandoned DPL2. Because licensing for the competitive equivalent DTS formats (DTS-Neo 6 and Neural X) is cheaper, while both technologies offer the same results (Neural X can decode DD 2.0 into artificial 7.1 multi-channels), Yamaha decided to cut pricing by dropping Dolby's matrix decoding methods (just like Onkyo dropped Audyssey RC for their own EasyEQ RC, which sucks BTW). So we get more new features for less cost.

I personally compared both DTS Neo 6 and Dolby DPL2 and came to a conclusion that for movie modes, they provide the exact same results, while for music mode, DTS Neo-6 does a better job than DPL2.

You can live o/w DPL2 if you have DTS Neo and Neural plus Yamaha Cinema DSP processing modes.
What is the difference between Dolby PLIIx/z and the new Dolby Digital Surround Decoder?
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post #2908 of 7182 Old 01-20-2017, 07:19 AM
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I have owned yamaha receivers for years, many simultaneously as well, having different models in different rooms, Straight has always mean it plays exactly what is on the disk, why would any previous yamaha owner assume that the problem with the automatically and unable to be deselected upmixing be anything except some kind of fault?

I'm certain that people owning other receiver brands would laugh if you told them it was a 'design choice'. It is not a logical assumption they they have altered the functuons of their receivers in an illogical way, eg. Straight is not straight, but is upmixed without any upmixing select, so why try to insult people who logically think it is not functioning as intended. There is no 'you should have known' because it was a stupid choice that goes against how the straight setting has functioned for many concurrent years.

I googled everything under the sun regarding what used to be called 'extended surround' for the new receiver, but given that the extended surround option is gone, of course there were no results, and if you think manuals for any product are typically useful for the majority of problems, then you are delusion. I had to consult my tv manual the other day as it is new too, regarding a button that used to be on my old tv by the same maker to perform a particular function...in the manual the remote is completely different and has buttons my remote does not...

The only people who read manuals are old people and with good reason, they usually only contain the most basic information like where to plug the hdmi cable and not to pour coffee inside your power amp...

I'm assuming those so easily offended by requests for help are the 20k posts sort of forum users whose free time consists solely of arguing with people online. But if someone who has bought a product, who has already expired many avenues for help elsewhere, finally comes to a specific thread for the product and doesn't want to read 500 pages of comments so as not to trouble the special snowflake 'cheetos' posters who are so easily enraged then f-ing excuse me for not having wasted several full days on here to get an answer when I had already spent that amount of time elswhere. Especially when it is clearly not commong knowledge.

Last edited by dchalfont; 01-20-2017 at 07:30 AM.
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post #2909 of 7182 Old 01-20-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
I came here with questions
Take your meds.
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post #2910 of 7182 Old 01-20-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
I came here with questions about the upmixing, then I went on my way but when I found the fix for thr 60hz issue, I cam back here to post the fix for others, I didn't know it was a known solution but I came back to contribute independantly.

Just because people don't check in to say "Hi gang!!!" And build their life around an internet forum as you have with an embarassing 16k+ posts over just over 4 years doesn't make them lazy, or users of peoples time.

Also your 'contribution' to this thread seems to be totally unnecesary personal attacks and criticism as much as 'help' I guess that's what it takes to be a dedicated/obsessed forum member with 16k posts.

I hope one day to be as influential and upstanding as you. I wonder what the correct ratio is for me to get as many criticisms of other users in as possible so as to reach your level of prestige with 16k posts whilst also not getting banned for an extreme concentration of negative comments. You seem to have mastered the ratio.

On behalf of all the lazy users who make this forum the discussion area it is thank you for humbling me before you oh forum lord.
What we really don't need is your continuing harangues over nothing. Wrong side of the bed?

And frankly, I specifically appreciate Bond007 for his long time support and help in many forums. When I see he is contributing in a thread, I know it probably a solid thread. Even if he also finds the wrong side on occasion. A light tap on the shoulder can accomplish what a baseball bat attack won't.
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Atmos/DTS:X HT in Vaulted Room -- LG OLED Settings Options
Yamaha RX-A3060: 7.2.4 or 7.2.2 + Zone2 (switchable); OPPO 203; LG OLED65B6P; Harmony 650 & Home Hub
Base: Mirage OM-6 (FLR), MC-si (C), OM-R2 (SLR), FRx-nine (BLR)
Presence: ELAC A4s (FP), RSL C34Es (RP); 2 aci Titan subs; RP amp: AudioSource AMP100VS
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