Denon X2200W - Enough power? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 33 Old 05-30-2016, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon X2200W - Enough power?

Hi All,

I did a quick search and couldn't find what I'm looking for so I thought I'd check with your expertise.

Does the X2200W have sufficient power to handle a 5.0 system where each speaker has these approximate specs?

Sensitivity: 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m
Recommended amplifier power: 40 to 140 wpc
Peak power handling: 140 wpc
Nominal impedance: 4 Ω; minimum 3.4

If I go with these, should I be concerned? What is your best guestimation of the RMS output of the amp for 5 channels at 4 ohms? Wish the manufacturers would list this...

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 33 Old 05-30-2016, 03:37 PM
 
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Without knowing the spl levels you want to achieve, hard to know. I think that avr isn't particularly suited to full range 4ohm loads at higher volume levels, though. You might try this review for an idea. Why no sub(s)?
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post #3 of 33 Old 05-30-2016, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Without knowing the spl levels you want to achieve, hard to know. I think that avr isn't particularly suited to full range 4ohm loads at higher volume levels, though. You might try this review for an idea. Why no sub(s)?
Thanks for the quick response! spl levels moderate, but not loud. I'm guessing that might not answer your ? though.

This sort of leads me to your next question. Reason for no sub: Living in an apartment complex - so deep heavy bass would be frowned upon. Hoping I can get a decent enough 5.0 system to hold me over for a few years until I get a standalone unit with no neighbors.

Sort of torn - was originally going with a set of speakers rated at 6 ohms, similar specs to above - however slightly lower end comparatively in terms of performance. Managed to stretch my budget to accommodate better speakers (spec'd above), although at 4 ohms my amp might not be sufficient. In which case, no need to stretch the budget as I can stick with the original plan. The joys of buying HT equipment!
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post #4 of 33 Old 05-30-2016, 04:00 PM
 
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Moderate levels may work fine, especially if you're being courteous to neighbors in apartment type environment. Better to define spl in dB, though. Unfortunately the 2200 doesn't have pre-outs to add an external amp down the line with either, think you need to go to at least the 3200 for that.

Why low impedance and low sensitivity speakers particularly? What speakers are you talking about (both sets)?
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post #5 of 33 Old 05-30-2016, 04:05 PM
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As long as you don't want ear blistering volume levels, the 2200 should be just fine.

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post #6 of 33 Old 05-30-2016, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Moderate levels may work fine, especially if you're being courteous to neighbors in apartment type environment. Better to define spl in dB, though. Unfortunately the 2200 doesn't have pre-outs to add an external amp down the line with either, think you need to go to at least the 3200 for that.

Why low impedance and low sensitivity speakers particularly? What speakers are you talking about (both sets)?
Real short history. About 6 months back, I started leaning towards the pioneer AJ budget (non-elite) system. By the time I began putting a budget together, AJ went to Elac so I began eyeing up the Elac Debut Series. Since then, I once again let myself wander to the Elac Uni-Fi speakers.

No specific reason for following AJ specifically - he just seems to always produce good products. The Debut are reviewing well - and am assuming the Uni-Fi will do the same as they roll-out. I wish he was able to make his speakers with higher sensitivity at the very least.
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post #7 of 33 Old 05-30-2016, 07:38 PM
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Before responding..
U need to confirm:
  • Listening room size, height x width x depth
  • Target average listening SPL level
  • Type of source material; music or movies
  • Most often used source component


The 2200 is a budget, Atmos AVR and ur posted loudspeaker specs require significant current to bring up their SPL level. If the listening room is large I would recommend that U consider a higher powered AVR. Pre-out/main-in jacks are recommended for an EZ amplifier upgrade path, something the 220 doesn't have.

Just my $0.02...
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post #8 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Before responding..
U need to confirm:
  • Listening room size, height x width x depth
  • Target average listening SPL level
  • Type of source material; music or movies
  • Most often used source component


The 2200 is a budget, Atmos AVR and ur posted loudspeaker specs require significant current to bring up their SPL level. If the listening room is large I would recommend that U consider a higher powered AVR. Pre-out/main-in jacks are recommended for an EZ amplifier upgrade path, something the 220 doesn't have.

Just my $0.02...
Listening room size, height x width x depth - 12' x 12.5' x 12.5'
Target average listening SPL level - 65db
Type of source material - Digital
Most often used source component - PS4 & Netflix (built into tv)

Unfortunately the X2200W is at the edge of my limit and I can't go further here.
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post #9 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 08:09 AM
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Hmmmm. Would you consider good used speakers? Higher efficiency speakers. Seems like that might be consistent with the allocated budget, and open up a wide array of speaker options.

JiminSTL

AVRs: Yamaha RX-A2030, RX-V575, Denon AVR-X1100W
Speakers: Polk RTi12, Polk RTi6, Polk CSiA6, Polk CS350, Infinity Beta 50, Beta 20, C360, Infinity Primus P362, Klipsch KSF-C5
Subs: Outlaw LFM-1 EX, Klipsch Synergy Sub-10
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post #10 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Listening room size, height x width x depth - 12' x 12.5' x 12.5'
Target average listening SPL level - 65db
Type of source material - Digital
Most often used source component - PS4 & Netflix (built into tv)

Unfortunately the X2200W is at the edge of my limit and I can't go further here.
Hmmm...
Can't comment further but U are considering a system mismatch..
Connecting low impedance/low sensitivity loudspeakers to an entry-level AVR with limited 4 Ohm power output......
I would hold off on the Denon purchase until U can save up enough $ to upgrade..


Just my $0.02...
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post #11 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Hmmm...
Can't comment further but U are considering a system mismatch..
Connecting low impedance/low sensitivity loudspeakers to an entry-level AVR with limited 4 Ohm power output......
I would hold off on the Denon purchase until U can save up enough $ to upgrade..


Just my $0.02...
Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately the X2200W is at the max of my budget for a receiver at this point. I just bought it new 2 weeks ago. Could I return it? Probably, but I'd rather stick with it and find speakers that work.
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post #12 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Listening room size, height x width x depth - 12' x 12.5' x 12.5'
Target average listening SPL level - 65db
Type of source material - Digital
Most often used source component - PS4 & Netflix (built into tv)

Unfortunately the X2200W is at the edge of my limit and I can't go further here.
I believe you mean higher than 65db SPL. 65db is very low at any distance. I measured my listening room at 45-50db with nothing on. 65db SPL is sometimes lower than background music when hosting a party.
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post #13 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately the X2200W is at the max of my budget for a receiver at this point. I just bought it new 2 weeks ago. Could I return it? Probably, but I'd rather stick with it and find speakers that work.

Hi,

To follow the overall train of thought here, there is nothing at all wrong with your Denon AVR. Although it's been characterized as an entry level AVR, that doesn't mean it isn't a good one. But I agree that trying to pair it with low sensitivity 4 ohm speakers, just isn't a good match. So, I like the idea of trying to find some slightly higher sensitivity speakers that are legitimately rated closer to 8 ohms. Pre-owned can be a really good way to upgrade speakers within a budget. Another 2 cents.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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post #14 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
I believe you mean higher than 65db SPL. 65db is very low at any distance. I measured my listening room at 45-50db with nothing on. 65db SPL is sometimes lower than background music when hosting a party.

At a guess, he meant 65 MV on the Absolute scale, which corresponds to -15 MV on the Relative scale. At least, that's how I interpreted it, rather than as an actual SPL listening level.
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #15 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately the X2200W is at the max of my budget for a receiver at this point. I just bought it new 2 weeks ago. Could I return it? Probably, but I'd rather stick with it and find speakers that work.
Just so you know, Andrew has said on multiple occasions that he strictly adheres to the "supposed" industry standard regarding impedance. It says that the lowest impedance must not drop below 80% of the rated nominal impedance.

He stated that the UB5s hit 3.4ohms over a vary narrow range, and overall, he said that any entry level amp should be able to drive them to satisfying levels without issue.

There are many speaker designers who fudge the numbers, and you can look no further than my SVS guys. Their Prime Towers, Center and Satellites (and probably my Bookshelves as well) drop to very low impedance that if SVS followed the same strict self policing as AJ, then they would be rated at 4 ohms, and at best 6ohms:

https://www.audioholics.com/tower-sp...w/measurements

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...1hqAjBy4OLP.97

I believe you'll be fine with the UB5s as long as you have realistic expectations. Yes, their sensitivity is rather low when compared to other screamers like Klipsch (if their ratings are actually accurate) but I believe they will play loud enough that people at a party would have to shout at each other, and probably louder. If you add a subwoofer in the mix and cross the UB5s at 80-100hz, then that would make this a moot point.

edit: I just read that you're in an apartment complex and are a bit concerned about being too loud for neighbors..... Yes, the X2200 and UB5s will play together perfectly without a sub. Don't give it another thought. If you want the UB5s, buy them and enjoy!
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post #16 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:53 AM
 
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Real short history. About 6 months back, I started leaning towards the pioneer AJ budget (non-elite) system. By the time I began putting a budget together, AJ went to Elac so I began eyeing up the Elac Debut Series. Since then, I once again let myself wander to the Elac Uni-Fi speakers.

No specific reason for following AJ specifically - he just seems to always produce good products. The Debut are reviewing well - and am assuming the Uni-Fi will do the same as they roll-out. I wish he was able to make his speakers with higher sensitivity at the very least.
So have you heard the AJ designed speakers? Is the UB5 the one you're considering? Might want to check out Ascend Acoustics, 170SE or 340SE or a combo; I've got 200SEs, 170SEs, Sierra1s and they're very nice speakers. Not much more sensitive but only takes 3dB to effectively double your amp power. Just what are your size and budget restrictions for the speakers?
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post #17 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 09:57 AM
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You will have plenty of power for that sound level in that space.

If you can add a subwoofer in the future.

The low frequencies use up the most power so getting a subwoofer will help the sound and takes load off the amp. It will not be an additional bother to your neighbors as long as you keep the volume in check.

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post #18 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Real short history. About 6 months back, I started leaning towards the pioneer AJ budget (non-elite) system. By the time I began putting a budget together, AJ went to Elac so I began eyeing up the Elac Debut Series. Since then, I once again let myself wander to the Elac Uni-Fi speakers.

No specific reason for following AJ specifically - he just seems to always produce good products. The Debut are reviewing well - and am assuming the Uni-Fi will do the same as they roll-out. I wish he was able to make his speakers with higher sensitivity at the very least.
Hi Jonno. The Elac Uni-Fi appear to be better than average budget speakers and probably sound pretty good... up to a point. The major limitation with them (based on their claimed specs), is that they will NOT appreciate playing particularly loud. As you said, they're spec'd at 85dB/2.83V/1m sensitivity and 4Ω nom. impedance. Now, 2.83V into 4Ω generates 2W, or double the power quoted for Wattage sensitivity (1W). A doubling the power yields a 3dB increase, so the Uni-fi's need to be docked 3dB, giving a sensitivity of 82dB/1W/1m for comparison purposes. This is considered to be quite a low sensitivity, and combined with their maximum input power of 140W, means they're likely to "run out of puff" relatively quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Listening room size, height x width x depth - 12' x 12.5' x 12.5'
Target average listening SPL level - 65db
Type of source material - Digital
Most often used source component - PS4 & Netflix (built into tv)
Thanks for supplying those details. The more relevant dimension when looking at speaker selection is your listening distance from the speakers. Based on your room size, I'd guess this would be about 10'. This moderate distance combined with your (current) desired listening level of 65dBSPL means that you'd be calling on the Denon's amps to deliver fractions of a Watt per channel, even with the low sensitivity Uni-Fi's.

For instance, say you wanted to up the ante to 75dBSPL at your seat per channel (subjectively twice as loud as 65dBSPL). Now, with a 10' listening distance you'll be getting about 5dB of SPL attenuation in a typically furnished room, or about 3 - 4dB per doubling of distance from the source. This means a speaker will need to play at 80dBSPL at 1m to deliver 75dBSPL at the LP. For a 82dB/1W/1m Uni-Fi, that means -2dB of "gain" or 0.6W is required from the amp to play it at 80dBSPL. Dialling it back 10dB (65dBSPL) or turning it up 10dB (85dBSPL) requires input power to reduce or increase by a factor of 10 respectively.

With your current situation and listening levels, the X2200 will clearly be fine powering the Uni-Fi's. However, speakers should last you more than a couple of years. What happens when you shift to a new place and you're free to crank it up higher and possibly have a longer listening distance in a larger room? Power requirements escalate quickly (logarithmically) with increased SPL and you could find yourself short on grunt with low sensitivity speakers. (More on this below.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Unfortunately the X2200W is at the edge of my limit and I can't go further here.
And neither should you Jonno! Buying a more powerful (expensive) AVR to drive budget speakers with low sensitivity and fairly low power handling is quite frankly a silly idea. (Especially when you consider that going from 95WPC to say 125WPC only yields 1.2dB.)

A far more sensible approach is getting speakers with significantly higher sensitivity and (ideally) higher power handling. To get you started, have a look at these two very good speakers:

Both these speakers are 8Ω nom. impedance and have an anechoic sensitivity of 89dB/1W/1m with good power handling. What does the extra sensitivity do for you? Look at it this way: that 7dB advantage in sensitivity over the Uni-Fi's effectively "turns" the X2200's 95W amps into 476W beasts! Way more effective than overspending on a marginally more powerful AVR.

The Ascends in particular are very highly regarded speakers and their published measurements are outstanding for a <$200 speaker.

For around your budget, a speaker/sub combo from either company would offer excellent performance.

Edit: +1 on @lovinthehd 's Ascend recommendation. Beat me to it... again.
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post #19 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all! Very helpful.

Comfortable Budget - $1200 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C
Stretch Budget - $1900 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C

I have not heard the Elac's myself - so just going off of reviews. I like the idea of true 3 way speakers. I also like the appearance of the Uni-Fi over the Debut. Of course, once I settled on the Uni-Fi - they pull production due to the dye issue haha. Is that a sign to steer away?

I would like to get floor standing for front, bookshelves for the rear. I will definitely be checking out the recommendations you have provided!
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post #20 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 02:31 PM
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@GIEGAR

My X2200 is driving 5.1 speakers with these specs:

L/R towers
System: 2-way, three-driver direct-radiating system, vented enclosure with two rear-firing flared ports.
Drivers: Vifa Ring Radiator tweeter, two custom 5.25" long-throw mid-woofers
Frequency Response: ±1.35db 200Hz to 20KHz; ± 3 dB 38 Hz to 20 KHz
Crossover Point: 2.5kHz
Slope: 12dB acoustic
Impedance: 8 Ohms nominal
Efficiency: 87dB (@ 1 watt / 1 meter)

Center
System: Three way, four driver direct-radiating system, vented enclosure with rear-firing flared port
Drivers: Vifa Ring Radiator tweeter, one custom 4" midrange and two custom 6.5" long-throw aluminum cone woofers
Crossover: 580 Hz and 3.0 kHz
Frequency Response: ± 0.9dB / 44Hz to 20KHz (± 3dB)
Impedance: 8 Ohms nominal
Efficiency: 89 dB (@ 1 watt / 1 meter)

(plus small surrounds and a sub)

Filling a room that is 14'L x 11'W x 8'H. I'm happy with the way things sound. I was interested in your response above, and I noticed that my center has a different sensitivity than my L/R channels. Given no gain in the receiver in any channel, will my center play louder than the left and right channels? What makes a speaker more or less sensitive?

Cheers.

Sony VPL-HW40ES, 92" Elunevision Reference Studio 4K Fixed-Frame Screen, Denon AVR-X2200W, AV123 (Onix) Rockets, Axiom QS8.
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post #21 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 03:15 PM
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Thanks all! Very helpful.

Comfortable Budget - $1200 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C
Stretch Budget - $1900 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C

I have not heard the Elac's myself - so just going off of reviews. I like the idea of true 3 way speakers. I also like the appearance of the Uni-Fi over the Debut. Of course, once I settled on the Uni-Fi - they pull production due to the dye issue haha. Is that a sign to steer away?

I would like to get floor standing for front, bookshelves for the rear. I will definitely be checking out the recommendations you have provided!
I would highly recommend that U go and audition the Elac loudspeakers before purchasing..
Buying loudspeakers based upon magazine reviews and various open random unsubstantiated comments/posts on the internet threads can be very misleading..

As many of these thread/review are posted by inexperienced indivduals that have never listened to the target loudspeakers, just to collect a $ review fee..

Just my $0.02...
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post #22 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I would highly recommend that U go and audition the Elac loudspeakers before purchasing..
Buying loudspeakers based upon magazine reviews and various open random unsubstantiated comments/posts on the internet threads can be very misleading..

Just my $0.02...
I'd love to! Any thoughts on where to audition them in the Boston, MA area? I've only seen them online. Was thinking I'd do Crutchfield so I can run with them for 60 days.
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I'd love to! Any thoughts on where to audition them in the Boston, MA area? I've only seen them online. Was thinking I'd do Crutchfield so I can run with them for 60 days.
IMHO...
Crutchfield is a great seller and we know Bill Crutchfield personally, we have been doing biz with them for over 35 years...
Just be sure to double check their return policy and who pays the return freight?
Not necessarily the lowest prices but great product support/knowledge...

Just my $0.02...
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post #24 of 33 Old 05-31-2016, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Thanks all! Very helpful.

Comfortable Budget - $1200 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C
Stretch Budget - $1900 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C

I have not heard the Elac's myself - so just going off of reviews. I like the idea of true 3 way speakers. I also like the appearance of the Uni-Fi over the Debut. Of course, once I settled on the Uni-Fi - they pull production due to the dye issue haha. Is that a sign to steer away?

I would like to get floor standing for front, bookshelves for the rear. I will definitely be checking out the recommendations you have provided!
SVS Primes would easily fit within your budget. You can audition them in your home for 45 days and if you don't like them, you send them back and SVS pays return shipping too... Literally no risk whatsoever. You just need to buy them directly from SVS, and not Amazon or eBay to get the 45 day trial period.

I have Primes and like them. That being said, you may or may not like them, but you'll never know until they are in your house, and with nothing to lose, to me it's a no brainer.
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post #25 of 33 Old 06-01-2016, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Thanks all! Very helpful.

Comfortable Budget - $1200 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C
Stretch Budget - $1900 for Front L/R, Rear L/R, & C

I have not heard the Elac's myself - so just going off of reviews. I like the idea of true 3 way speakers. I also like the appearance of the Uni-Fi over the Debut. Of course, once I settled on the Uni-Fi - they pull production due to the dye issue haha. Is that a sign to steer away?

I would like to get floor standing for front, bookshelves for the rear. I will definitely be checking out the recommendations you have provided!
Right!

Ascend Acoustics: 2 x CMT-340 SE (with pedestal stands) mains; CMT-340c SE centre; 2 x HTM-200 SE surrounds; Rythmik Audio LV12R Direct-servo sub**. Loaded into the Ascend shopping cart, all that comes to $1750 + $60 shipping. You'll get up to $140 off if you're prepared to go for B Stock.

Also, an email from Ascend a couple of days ago announced:

Quote:
Ascend Acoustics Memorial Day and Summer Sales!
.
.

Additionally, and by popular request, we are trying something new by offering free shipping and free return shipping (in the rare occasion a customer wishes to return an item) on a few select products. This is a true risk-free audition!

Products covered under the risk-free audition:

Sierra-1

CMT-340SE

CBM-170SE


* Note: free shipping is only available for ship to addresses in the continental US only.
... so you could order the CMT-340 SE's to try out and if you love them, order the full system.

** I know you're concerned about a sub in an apartment, but a capable sub really is imperative for satisfactory system set-up/performance and this is arguably the best sub in it's class and it fits within your "stretch" budget. If it does prove to be a concern with your neighbours, there's various options for "turning it down" including AVR level trim, LFE channel attenuation, invoking Audyssey Dynamic Volume, Dolby "Night Mode", or a combination thereof. Alternate sub: Hsu Research VTF-2 MK4 ($590 shipped).

B&M (Crutchfield) recommendation - PSB: 2 x Imagine X1T (Open Box) mains; Imagine XC centre; 2 x Alpha B1 surrounds. Totals $1510 shipped. I'd also recommend a sub for this system if you can stretch it, or delay the purchase of the surrounds for a while in favour of a sub ($1800 with Rythmik LV12R).

Good luck & have fun with it!
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post #26 of 33 Old 06-01-2016, 09:04 AM
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@GIEGAR

My X2200 is driving 5.1 speakers with these specs:

L/R towers
System: 2-way, three-driver direct-radiating system, vented enclosure with two rear-firing flared ports.
Drivers: Vifa Ring Radiator tweeter, two custom 5.25" long-throw mid-woofers
Frequency Response: ±1.35db 200Hz to 20KHz; ± 3 dB 38 Hz to 20 KHz
Crossover Point: 2.5kHz
Slope: 12dB acoustic
Impedance: 8 Ohms nominal
Efficiency: 87dB (@ 1 watt / 1 meter)

Center
System: Three way, four driver direct-radiating system, vented enclosure with rear-firing flared port
Drivers: Vifa Ring Radiator tweeter, one custom 4" midrange and two custom 6.5" long-throw aluminum cone woofers
Crossover: 580 Hz and 3.0 kHz
Frequency Response: ± 0.9dB / 44Hz to 20KHz (± 3dB)
Impedance: 8 Ohms nominal
Efficiency: 89 dB (@ 1 watt / 1 meter)

(plus small surrounds and a sub)

Filling a room that is 14'L x 11'W x 8'H. I'm happy with the way things sound. I was interested in your response above, and I noticed that my center has a different sensitivity than my L/R channels. Given no gain in the receiver in any channel, will my center play louder than the left and right channels? What makes a speaker more or less sensitive?

Cheers.

Hi,

I'm not Giegar, but I thought I would answer at least part of your question. I'm not certain what makes some speakers less sensitive than others, but I believe that it is a complicated equation involving multiple factors, as many speaker makers struggle with it. I do know that driver type and cabinet volume are among the factors influencing sensitivity, and as with most things in speaker design, I suspect that there are trade-offs.

With respect to the difference in sensitivity between your CC and L/R speakers, it is a modest difference. If you amplified all three speakers by exactly the same amount (and not allowing for room placement variations) the CC would sound slightly louder. It would be about 20% louder (2db) about 1 meter from the speaker. But your Denon will not amplify the speakers exactly the same. If you run Audyssey, each speaker will be measured not just in relation to it's innate sensitivity, but also for it's interaction with the room. And then trim levels for each speaker will be set in a way that allows all of the speakers to produce equal volumes at the MLP. Getting all of your speakers to play at fairly equal volumes at the main listening position is critical to the stereo, 5.1, or whatever, experience. (Note: some people do turn up the CC anyway where hearing dialogue more clearly is helpful.)

Your CC will, room conditions aside, simply use slightly less amplifier power producing comparable volumes with respect to your L/R speakers. I hope this answers your question.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 06-01-2016 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #27 of 33 Old 06-02-2016, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Might catch some heat - but what are the thoughts on the Fluance Signature Series - (pending a resolution to their crossover issues).

Front Floor Standing + Center + Rear Bookshelves. On paper they look decent. Build quality has been well reviewed - just issues with the crossovers, that are supposedly being addressed & fixed per companies communication. Hoping we might start getting some reviews of the fixed crossovers.

Is there anything who might think it is worthwhile to see the results of their fix, or am I wasting my time altogether here.
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post #28 of 33 Old 06-02-2016, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Might catch some heat - but what are the thoughts on the Fluance Signature Series - (pending a resolution to their crossover issues).

Front Floor Standing + Center + Rear Bookshelves. On paper they look decent. Build quality has been well reviewed - just issues with the crossovers, that are supposedly being addressed & fixed per companies communication. Hoping we might start getting some reviews of the fixed crossovers.

Is there anything who might think it is worthwhile to see the results of their fix, or am I wasting my time altogether here.
Boy, that's up to you. For me, my opinion - I wouldn't be able to trust that there wasn't something else not right with the speaker. Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't do it as there are far too many better options available.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Might catch some heat - but what are the thoughts on the Fluance Signature Series - (pending a resolution to their crossover issues).

Front Floor Standing + Center + Rear Bookshelves. On paper they look decent. Build quality has been well reviewed - just issues with the crossovers, that are supposedly being addressed & fixed per companies communication. Hoping we might start getting some reviews of the fixed crossovers.

Is there anything who might think it is worthwhile to see the results of their fix, or am I wasting my time altogether here.
Fluance never influenced me? If they have issues I'd move on....like was said there's so many choices otherwise....
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post #30 of 33 Old 06-02-2016, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan3300 View Post
Might catch some heat - but what are the thoughts on the Fluance Signature Series - (pending a resolution to their crossover issues).

Front Floor Standing + Center + Rear Bookshelves. On paper they look decent. Build quality has been well reviewed - just issues with the crossovers, that are supposedly being addressed & fixed per companies communication. Hoping we might start getting some reviews of the fixed crossovers.
I'd ignore purely subjective reviews. If at all possible, seek out reviews that include at least some independent measurements.

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Is there anything who might think it is worthwhile to see the results of their fix, or am I wasting my time altogether here.
It appears to be more than the crossovers. I didn't trawl through the whole Audioholics thread, but this post gives the upshot:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy
Here's my final report on the Fluance Mod. And as they say, all's well that ends. If any of you have ever caught Wheeler Dealers on the Velocity channel, this turned out to be a little like their rebuild of the 1956 Citroen. I thought I had come up with a successful Xover that smoothed everything out, but when I hooked the board up to the second Fluance (which I hadn't measured before except with lots of connections reversed), there was a 5dB dip in the mid treble. After lots of trouble shooting, I started over by measuring the individual drivers and importing the plots into my Fluance file. It predicted exactly what I was getting. As it turns out, the native response of the two midrange drivers diverged by 5 dB toward the top end. So I designed a new crossover for the second Fluance, and both are happily playing upstairs. They sound clean as a whistle, with lots of wham and slam. And they're very efficient.

I am frustrated that I couldn't come up with something that might have general use. In addition to the complexity of my design, I don't know which, if any, of my Fluances is the real deal. The crossover(s) might or might not work well in other samples. I would show you a pic of the stock crossover and one of the mods, except the file is too big even compressed.
In short, Dennis had to design/build a bespoke crossover for each speaker to account for a 5dB frequency response variation between the midrange drivers of the speakers provided by his client. On it's own, a re-designed stock crossover from Fluance isn't going to properly fix this broader problem.

Still too many whiskers on the Fluances at the moment, especially with so many other quality (tested and proven) designs around the traps.

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Boy, that's up to you. For me, my opinion - I wouldn't be able to trust that there wasn't something else not right with the speaker. Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't do it as there are far too many better options available.
Spot on! A 5dB FR divergence in midrange drivers in a "pair" of speakers points to a deeper QC issue.
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