Monoprice Monolith 7 Amplifier Review - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post
Mark;
AVS should pay for you to get trained on using the Audio Precision device and also they should buy one for your reviews. Subjective reviews a getting a bit outdated.
That would be nice. However...

The vast majority of comments on this review have been positive, so I'm not seeing an issue. I don't understand how subjective experiential reviews can ever be outdated per se—it's just something different.

I don't review enough amps for a full AP rig to be justifiable, nor do I intend to start specializing in amps such that it would be justifiable going forward. Besides, someone else is bound to do that legwork. It's not that I don't want some nice measurement gear to mess with—that would be great. Personally, I focus on video measurement and maintaining a good kit for that since it's the category of greatest interest to AVS readers. Maybe a gofundme campaign for a nice AP rig could work?

I mean sure, if I did have such a rig I'd be happy to start testing all sorts of amps and AVRs but right now that's not the plan.

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post #32 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
It's a good price! I've always liked Monoprice as a company. I like Outlaw stuff too... very robust, built like tank. Their 300 watt/ch 7 channel amp needs two 15 amp circuits!
Well the Monolith 7 can never output 200 watts on all channels simultaneously either. Yes each amp module can produce 200 watts RMS but 200 x 7= 1400 watts. Now as we know class AB is only 50% efficient, that means it would consume 2800 watts of AC power. A 20amp circuit is 2400 watts max. As you can see we come up a little short by 400 watts.

If you really wanted 200wpc x7 you would need 2x 15a cords on the Monolith 7 as well. And then we don't know the true VA capacity of the internal power supply. It too must be able to supply 2800 watts on the DC rails.

That said, you should never need all channels at full power anyway - in fact impossible with any 7.1 track. So IMO, it's just fine with one 20a power cord.

P.S. If you do the same math on the Outlaw 300x7 watt amp, it too can never produce full power across all channels on just two 15a circuits. 2 x 15a x 120v = 3600 watts available. 300 x7 x2= 4200 watts needed.

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post #33 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Well the Monolith 7 can never output 200 watts on all channels simultaneously either. Yes each amp module can produce 200 watts RMS but 200 x 7= 1400 watts. Now as we know class AB is only 50% efficient, that means it would consume 2800 watts of AC power. A 20amp circuit is 2400 watts max. As you can see we come up a little short by 400 watts

If you really wanted 200wpc x7 you would need 2x 15a cords on the Monolith 7 as well. And then we don't know the true VA capacity of the internal power supply. It too must be able to supply 2800 watts on the DC rails.

That said, you should never need all channels at full power anyway - in fact impossible with any 7.1 track. So IMO, it's just fine with one 20a power cord.

P.S. If you do the same math on the Outlaw 300x7 watt amp, it too can never produce full power across all channels on just two 15a circuits. 2 x 15a x 120v = 3600 watts available. 300 x7 x2= 4200 watts needed.
Class A/B efficiency varies by output and can hit 65-70% at high output levels depending on the amp. If the Monolith 7 is current-limited then it should be able to hit its specification on that 20-amp circuit as long as its efficiency is 60% or greater when running full-tilt.

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post #34 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Well the Monolith 7 can never output 200 watts on all channels simultaneously either. Yes each amp module can produce 200 watts RMS but 200 x 7= 1400 watts. Now as we know class AB is only 50% efficient, that means it would consume 2800 watts of AC power. A 20amp circuit is 2400 watts max. As you can see we come up a little short by 400 watts.

If you really wanted 200wpc x7 you would need 2x 15a cords on the Monolith 7 as well. And then we don't know the true VA capacity of the internal power supply. It too must be able to supply 2800 watts on the DC rails.

That said, you should never need all channels at full power anyway - in fact impossible with any 7.1 track. So IMO, it's just fine with one 20a power cord.

P.S. If you do the same math on the Outlaw 300x7 watt amp, it too can never produce full power across all channels on just two 15a circuits. 2 x 15a x 120v = 3600 watts available. 300 x7 x2= 4200 watts needed.
Your logic is flawed.

Circuit breakers do not work like brick walls. More than 20a of power will pass through a 20a circuit breaker before it trips (sometimes 40+ for short bursts). This has been discussed on this forum many times.

Also the amplifier has capacitors to accommodate short bursts of high power usage.
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post #35 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 11:19 AM
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As soon as I read that it weighs in at 93 pounds I immediately thought of my Outlaw 7700. It weighs the same.
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post #36 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
Your logic is flawed.

Circuit breakers do not work like brick walls. More than 20a of power will pass through a 20a circuit breaker before it trips (sometimes 40+ for short bursts). This has been discussed on this forum many times.

Also the amplifier has capacitors to accommodate short bursts of high power usage.
Keep in mind...
The latest FTC/CEA amplifier statue states that when measuring full power output, 1 channel is driven @ full output and the other channels @ 1/8 power. Also the original 1973 FTC amplifier statue required the amplifier to output its rated power for 1 hour (all channels), now in the FTC/CEA statue this has been decreased to 5 minutes..

Just my $0.02...
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post #37 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That would be nice. However...

The vast majority of comments on this review have been positive, so I'm not seeing an issue. I don't understand how subjective experiential reviews can ever be outdated per se—it's just something different.

I don't review enough amps for a full AP rig to be justifiable, nor do I intend to start specializing in amps such that it would be justifiable going forward. Besides, someone else is bound to do that legwork. It's not that I don't want some nice measurement gear to mess with—that would be great. Personally, I focus on video measurement and maintaining a good kit for that since it's the category of greatest interest to AVS readers. Maybe a gofundme campaign for a nice AP rig could work?

I mean sure, if I did have such a rig I'd be happy to start testing all sorts of amps and AVRs but right now that's not the plan.

The cost of the AP system is about $32K, but one can find certified used ones for around $20K..

Just my $0.02...
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post #38 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post
The cost of the AP system is about $32K, but one can find certified used ones for around $20K..

Just my $0.02...
I'm accepting donations.
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post #39 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
The passive cooling and low noise floor are a big deal, and should be major considerations for people pursuing high dynamic range.
Too often, people only focus the output side of dynamic range, and not the noise floor.
This is highly preferable over a commercial amp with a high noise floor and fans, but otherwise similar specs.
I like this and wanted to reinforce the low noise floor aspect. Passive cooling is a downer for a lot of folk who cram amps into spaces with inadequate airflow. However, with the proliferation of HT and high-sensitivity speakers to handle high volume with less power, noise floor becomes more important and is likely to increase in significance. Anyone who has hooked up a pair of 100+ dB/W/m speakers and been driven out of the room by the hiss from the amplifier knows the benefit of a lower noise floor.
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post #40 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 12:23 PM
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Class A single-ended is max ~27 % efficient. Push-pull gets you to 50 % (theoretical). Past the first few Watts (depending on the biasing), the amp will run class B, getting up to about 67 % efficiency IIRC (and I might not, have not designed many class B amplifiers). That may be for single-ended as well, I am not sure, so push-pull may get you higher for class B. Class AB will be a little less than class B at max output due to the additional bias but you generally do not lose much. Class D can get you 90 % and higher (I have seen some amps and SMPS' in the 95 % to 98 % range, pretty amazing) though again efficiency drops at low power levels.

None of which detracts from this beast...

The price of the AP gear has gone up, but so has everything else. Wish I had kept my ancient old HP audio analyzer...

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post #41 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 12:27 PM
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Im dumb when it comes to electrical...so what your saying is if I purchase this amp I should have a 30amp circuit to run it? Im having my house build and can put in whatever I want, but only if needed. I have a THT box with 500w plate amp, benq projector, denon 3311ci receiver and would like to purchase this amp to drive my Energy speakers. What power requirements am I look at for the room? Would 4 20amp suffice or would one of them need to be a 30amp for this?
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post #42 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Well the Monolith 7 can never output 200 watts on all channels simultaneously either. Yes each amp module can produce 200 watts RMS but 200 x 7= 1400 watts. Now as we know class AB is only 50% efficient, that means it would consume 2800 watts of AC power. A 20amp circuit is 2400 watts max. As you can see we come up a little short by 400 watts.

If you really wanted 200wpc x7 you would need 2x 15a cords on the Monolith 7 as well. And then we don't know the true VA capacity of the internal power supply. It too must be able to supply 2800 watts on the DC rails.

That said, you should never need all channels at full power anyway - in fact impossible with any 7.1 track. So IMO, it's just fine with one 20a power cord.

P.S. If you do the same math on the Outlaw 300x7 watt amp, it too can never produce full power across all channels on just two 15a circuits. 2 x 15a x 120v = 3600 watts available. 300 x7 x2= 4200 watts needed.
That is what secondary capacitance is for.
Also you are not taking into account duty cycles.
Amps are not irons.
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post #43 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vschaos View Post
Im dumb when it comes to electrical...so what your saying is if I purchase this amp I should have a 30amp circuit to run it? Im having my house build and can put in whatever I want, but only if needed. I have a THT box with 500w plate amp, benq projector, denon 3311ci receiver and would like to purchase this amp to drive my Energy speakers. What power requirements am I look at for the room? Would 4 20amp suffice or would one of them need to be a 30amp for this?
I would stick with 20 A and you'll be fine. IME 30 A is a pain and few if any consumer audio gear will have a 30 A plug. A 20 A outlet accepts standard 15 A and 20 A plugs, not sure (forgot, senility, too long since I was an electrician) but I do not think a 30 A standard outlet accepts a 15 A plug.
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post #44 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I would stick with 20 A and you'll be fine. IME 30 A is a pain and few if any consumer audio gear will have a 30 A plug. A 20 A outlet accepts standard 15 A and 20 A plugs, not sure (forgot, senility, too long since I was an electrician) but I do not think a 30 A standard outlet accepts a 15 A plug.
Sounds good. I talked to my buddy building the house and he said he will put in 2 20 amp if needed. You think 1 20 amp is good for everything or just go ahead and run 2? 1 for the amp and put everything else on the other?
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post #45 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 12:59 PM
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I'd run two just to have them available. I have three 20-A outlets on my front wall and use one for the main system and one for each sub (more because they are off in the corners than that they need to be on a different circuit).
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post #46 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I'd run two just to have them available. I have three 20-A outlets on my front wall and use one for the main system and one for each sub (more because they are off in the corners than that they need to be on a different circuit).
Understood will run 2 for sure.
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post #47 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 01:21 PM
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One other thing his electrician might suggest is making one or more of the "other" outlets switched. That is, take the top or bottom plug in a duplex to a wall switch. I had that done for outlets on each side of the room (NOT the ones to the HT system!) so I could switch on a floor lamp. My room is built with floating walls and ceilings for sound isolation and I did not want any more holes that I had to for lighting and such.

I have three 20-A circuits along the front wall for the electronics, and four or six regular 15 A duplex outlets on a single circuit around the room. Two of those take the top output in the duplex to a wall switch.

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post #48 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 01:42 PM
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At 10% off on sale, this amp has been great bang for the buck. I have had it installed for 10 days and have been very happy. It is heavy and runs fairly hot but good clean power.
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post #49 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
That is what secondary capacitance is for.
Also you are not taking into account duty cycles.
Amps are not irons.
I'm talking continuous sine wave output. Of course in the real world that's not the case. And like I said, no 7.1 playback would ever have full output on all channels at the same time.
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post #50 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I would stick with 20 A and you'll be fine. IME 30 A is a pain and few if any consumer audio gear will have a 30 A plug. A 20 A outlet accepts standard 15 A and 20 A plugs, not sure (forgot, senility, too long since I was an electrician) but I do not think a 30 A standard outlet accepts a 15 A plug.
A NEMA straight blade 30a 120v is in fact a dedicated prong configuration. When I need a 30a 120v like on one of my UPS's I just use a twistlock which is more common and easier to get.
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post #51 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
Your logic is flawed.

Circuit breakers do not work like brick walls. More than 20a of power will pass through a 20a circuit breaker before it trips (sometimes 40+ for short bursts). This has been discussed on this forum many times.

Also the amplifier has capacitors to accommodate short bursts of high power usage.
Again I was talking continuous sinewave signal. And keep in mind a breaker should not be loaded beyond 80%, which I do agree in a power amps case it would never be for long.

But in a professional studio application, which I work in, we would never put that much audio power on a single circuit. We always leave at least a 50% safety margin.
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post #52 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Again I was talking continuous sinewave signal. And keep in mind a breaker should not be loaded beyond 80%, which I do agree in a power amps case it would never be for long.

But in a professional studio application, which I work in, we would never put that much audio power on a single circuit. We always leave at least a 50% safety margin.
If the Monolith 7 hits 70% efficiency at peak output, that would be equal to an 80% load 20 amp circuit.

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post #53 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 02:08 PM
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Why is the inputs labels? left center right and so on? does it actually matter? is there something going on requiring those particular channel locations to be in those spots? an amp is an amp right? shouldnt matter what speakers are plugged in? or is this just to make it more "idiot proof"?

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post #54 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 02:12 PM
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I fully understand that people are talking about 20 amp AC circuits, power supply efficiency, circuit-breakers...
But can someone kindly provide a real-world residential system example when the subject MonoPrice amplifier will be tasked with outputting 200W x 7 continously..


Just my $0.02...
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post #55 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Why is the inputs labels? left center right and so on? does it actually matter? is there something going on requiring those particular channel locations to be in those spots? an amp is an amp right? shouldnt matter what speakers are plugged in? or is this just to make it more "idiot proof"?
No it does not matter, they could just as well be numbers.
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post #56 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post
I fully understand that people are talking about 20 amp AC circuits, power supply efficiency, circuit-breakers...
But can someone kindly provide a real-world residential system example when the subject MonoPrice amplifier will be tasked with outputting 200W x 7 continuously..


Just my $0.02...
Probably never.
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post #57 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
If the Monolith 7 hits 70% efficiency at peak output, that would be equal to an 80% load 20 amp circuit.
Agreed, if it does. And I do know that getting 70% with class AB is possible. But rule of thumb for load calcs is typically 50% for class AB. Again in pro environments. This discussion is moot in most residential applications because like you said above, the amp will never be tasked to output that much power.
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post #58 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 03:34 PM
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If you are not worry about balanced inputs its great amp to buy.
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post #59 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Agreed, if it does. And I do know that getting 70% with class AB is possible. But rule of thumb for load calcs is typically 50% for class AB. Again in pro environments. This discussion is moot in most residential applications because like you said above, the amp will never be tasked to output that much power.
I'm curious. In which pro environments would it matter?
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post #60 of 700 Old 06-01-2016, 06:08 PM
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Be safe to put this in a rack on a self? I could put in the top of the rack so it has the best air flow. Thanks
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amplifier , monolith 7 , Monoprice

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