Volume issue when watching cable TV with Denon receiver - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Volume issue when watching cable TV with Denon receiver

A couple of days ago I picked up the Denon AVR-x2300w receiver to replace the AVR-x1300w which I was having some issues with. Everything is working fine except for one issue.

I have my Comcast cable box connected to the Sat/Cable HDMI port to the Denon receiver, and my LG TV connected to the ARC Monitor Out HDMI port. The issue is when I am watching cable TV the volume on the receiver has to be cranked up to half way just to get any sound, and three quarters the way up to get decent volume. When I switch to the WebOS smart tv and watch Netflix, YouTube etc, the volume gets louder at a much lower volume setting.

I called Denon and was told to raise the channel gain settings for the speakers, that I could go up to +12db. I tried that and had to go pretty far up just to hear a difference in volume. My question is, does raising the gain far up diminish sound quality? And is it possible that my cable box could be the problem?

I'm afraid if my wife forgets to reduce the volume when she watches cable TV and switches to the smart TV side that she will be blown out of the chair.
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosrocket1 View Post
A couple of days ago I picked up the Denon AVR-x2300w receiver to replace the AVR-x1300w which I was having some issues with. Everything is working fine except for one issue.

I have my Comcast cable box connected to the Sat/Cable HDMI port to the Denon receiver, and my LG TV connected to the ARC Monitor Out HDMI port. The issue is when I am watching cable TV the volume on the receiver has to be cranked up to half way just to get any sound, and three quarters the way up to get decent volume. When I switch to the WebOS smart tv and watch Netflix, YouTube etc, the volume gets louder at a much lower volume setting.

I called Denon and was told to raise the channel gain settings for the speakers, that I could go up to +12db. I tried that and had to go pretty far up just to hear a difference in volume. My question is, does raising the gain far up diminish sound quality? And is it possible that my cable box could be the problem?

I'm afraid if my wife forgets to reduce the volume when she watches cable TV and switches to the smart TV side that she will be blown out of the chair.

Hi,

I don't like Denon's advice at all. In theory, raising all of the channel trim levels equally is the same thing as just increasing the master volume. But, absent a specific issue with a channel, such as wanting the CC louder, I would leave the trim settings where Audyssey put them, or where your AVR put them, if that particular Denon model doesn't have Audyssey.

I am not sure whether there is some way to program in a change in volume with a source change. I have certainly experienced volume changes with different sources, but not quite to the level you seem to be experiencing. Until you find a better workaround, I would simply reduce the volume before you turn off the TV when you are watching cable, just in case your wife does turn on the TV and go straight to a louder source. I would also make sure that your wife is acquainted with the issue, and that you both have an idea of the approximate volume level required for cable versus other sources.

I would hate to have you damage something in your system, or blow your wife out of her chair.

Regards,
Mike

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post #3 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I don't like Denon's advice at all. In theory, raising all of the channel trim levels equally is the same thing as just increasing the master volume. But, absent a specific issue with a channel, such as wanting the CC louder, I would leave the trim settings where Audyssey put them, or where your AVR put them, if that particular Denon model doesn't have Audyssey.

I am not sure whether there is some way to program in a change in volume with a source change. I have certainly experienced volume changes with different sources, but not quite to the level you seem to be experiencing. Until you find a better workaround, I would simply reduce the volume before you turn off the TV when you are watching cable, just in case your wife does turn on the TV and go straight to a louder source. I would also make sure that your wife is acquainted with the issue, and that you both have an idea of the approximate volume level required for cable versus other sources.

I would hate to have you damage something in your system, or blow your wife out of her chair.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks for the reply. I did go through the Audyssey setup, but I stopped at the third seating step because we don't have 8 seats. Is it possible that is causing the problem? I didn't think of that as the possible cause of the issue.
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosrocket1 View Post
A couple of days ago I picked up the Denon AVR-x2300w receiver to replace the AVR-x1300w which I was having some issues with. Everything is working fine except for one issue.

I have my Comcast cable box connected to the Sat/Cable HDMI port to the Denon receiver, and my LG TV connected to the ARC Monitor Out HDMI port. The issue is when I am watching cable TV the volume on the receiver has to be cranked up to half way just to get any sound, and three quarters the way up to get decent volume. When I switch to the WebOS smart tv and watch Netflix, YouTube etc, the volume gets louder at a much lower volume setting.

I called Denon and was told to raise the channel gain settings for the speakers, that I could go up to +12db. I tried that and had to go pretty far up just to hear a difference in volume. My question is, does raising the gain far up diminish sound quality? And is it possible that my cable box could be the problem?

I'm afraid if my wife forgets to reduce the volume when she watches cable TV and switches to the smart TV side that she will be blown out of the chair.
Do you by chance have Audyssey Dynamic Volume enabled for some sources but not others? Audyssey settings are PER INPUT - not global. Dynamic Volume makes BIG adjustments to the total volume being output at the same volume level on the AVR. For example, I probably watch most Comcast TV at a master volume level of around -30 in a quiet house if Dynamic Volume is not enabled, but I would have to lower the master volume on the dial to - 45 to -50 if/when Dynamic Volume is enabled to get to roughly the same SPL.
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
Do you by chance have Audyssey Dynamic Volume enabled for some sources but not others? Audyssey settings are PER INPUT - not global. Dynamic Volume makes BIG adjustments to the total volume being output at the same volume level on the AVR. For example, I probably watch most Comcast TV at a master volume level of around -30 in a quiet house if Dynamic Volume is not enabled, but I would have to lower the master volume on the dial to - 45 to -50 if/when Dynamic Volume is enabled to get to roughly the same SPL.
I'll check that out when I get home, thanks for the info.
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosrocket1 View Post
Thanks for the reply. I did go through the Audyssey setup, but I stopped at the third seating step because we don't have 8 seats. Is it possible that is causing the problem? I didn't think of that as the possible cause of the issue.
I doubt this would cause an issue (although software can be buggy so you never know!), but just keep in mind that Audyssey ALWAYS recommends running all 8 positions - even if you only have 1-2 seats. Just move the mic around a little within 1-2 feet from the main listening position - don't go outside of this area.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosrocket1 View Post
Thanks for the reply. I did go through the Audyssey setup, but I stopped at the third seating step because we don't have 8 seats. Is it possible that is causing the problem? I didn't think of that as the possible cause of the issue.
I don't think that stopping after three mic positions is likely to be contributing to this particular problem. But it is certainly likely to prevent you from enjoying the full benefits of Audyssey. The 8 mic positions are not based on the number of seats. The purpose of using all 8 positions, in whatever pattern is desired, is simply to give Audyssey the maximum amount of information about the listening area. Audyssey then uses a very sophisticated algorithm to weight the results from the 8 mic positions, in order to set filters for all of the speakers. Just use all 8 within about 3' or so of the MLP.

The Audyssey FAQ, linked in my signature, contains a lot of useful information, which it would be worth your while to read through. I don't know of anything in there which will address your immediate problem, but it should definitely help you to obtain better overall sound quality long-term.
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 11:05 AM
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Denon AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale such that average volume from external sources will be roughly 50-70. If you prefer all sources to sound roughly the same volume at a given Master Volume level, simply use the "Setup - Inputs - Source Level" setting to adjust the volume of each source up/down as you prefer such that they all sound about the same volume.

Also review posts 1-7 in the 2016 Denon AVR Owner's thread for more helpful information.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post43790578
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info! I will re run the Audyssey setup and go through the entire setup.
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-07-2016, 11:16 AM
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Various sources have various levels. Its weird at first but you get used to it. DVD/Blu-ray movies usually follow reference. Music follows loudness wars. TV follows whatever those crazy monkeys come up with, from too much compression, enhanced dialogue for talk shows, idiot level loud commercials...
So watching all that kinda comfortambly on some Denon receiver would look like:
- Bluray: -10 to 0 volume
- music/youtube music: -30 to -10...depending on amount of loudness wars involved
- TV: -40 to -25

I recommend Dynamic Volume turned on for TV to avoid nasty surprises, and for movies/music, if you prefer to listen at lower levels turn on Dynamic EQ.
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post #11 of 30 Old 11-12-2017, 10:36 AM
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Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and thought I would resurrect this thread to see if the OP resolved his issue? I have a similar issue, when listening to the radio on the tuner a comfortable level is 20 db; but when changing the input to TV I have to crank it up to 35 just to start the volume and up to about 60 for a comfortable level for the room. Sometimes I forget and change to tuner from TV/Audio without turning off the receiver and almost feel like I've blown my speakers.
Fortunately I've changed the initial volume start when turning on the receiver to 10 DB, so when turning on the receiver it begins at 10 db regardless of the source.
A lot of time has passed since any input to this thread so I thought maybe there has been some more insight since then so I resurrected it.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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post #12 of 30 Old 11-13-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 52vincent View Post
Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and thought I would resurrect this thread to see if the OP resolved his issue? I have a similar issue, when listening to the radio on the tuner a comfortable level is 20 db; but when changing the input to TV I have to crank it up to 35 just to start the volume and up to about 60 for a comfortable level for the room. Sometimes I forget and change to tuner from TV/Audio without turning off the receiver and almost feel like I've blown my speakers.
Fortunately I've changed the initial volume start when turning on the receiver to 10 DB, so when turning on the receiver it begins at 10 db regardless of the source.
A lot of time has passed since any input to this thread so I thought maybe there has been some more insight since then so I resurrected it.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Which model of receiver do you have?

If it's one with Audyssey (i.e. any other than the entry-level 5xxBT models), after you've run the calibration procedure the master volume control knob should produce a comfortable sound level at a setting of about 75. If you turn on the Dynamic Volume feature, settings of around 45 are common, at the cost of the loudest and quietest passages being close together in their sound levels.

Also, most models of Denon receivers let you configure a different trim level for each of the inputs, so you can minimize the difference in sound levels among them.

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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Which model of receiver do you have?

If it's one with Audyssey (i.e. any other than the entry-level 5xxBT models), after you've run the calibration procedure the master volume control knob should produce a comfortable sound level at a setting of about 75. If you turn on the Dynamic Volume feature, settings of around 45 are common, at the cost of the loudest and quietest passages being close together in their sound levels.

Also, most models of Denon receivers let you configure a different trim level for each of the inputs, so you can minimize the difference in sound levels among them.
I have the same as the OP X2300w. I did the Audessy set up originally but since have rearranged my living room. I just set it up manually after that. I'll try the Auddyssey again and see if that works.

Thanks for your input.
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post #14 of 30 Old 12-07-2017, 07:57 PM
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I had to exchange a Denon X2300W with an identical X2300W, but now I have to turn the volume up from 55 to 68 to have the same volume. I know for sure because I watch the same show each day and 55 now sounds very low.

Would this mean the amp isn't able to put out as much watts as the old one? Perhaps defective?

1) I made sure that every setting was exactly the same on the new Denon as the old one.
2) I tried redoing the Audyssey setup in case it changed something I had no manual control over
3) I made sure all the speakers were solidly connected, and polarity was correct.
4) The old Denon was only exchanged because I thought it had a video issue, but it turned out to be the hdmi cable quality, so it's not because the old one had an audio issue.

Thanks for any advice you might have!

Jim
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post #15 of 30 Old 12-07-2017, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by beachguysb View Post
I had to exchange a Denon X2300W with an identical X2300W, but now I have to turn the volume up from 55 to 68 to have the same volume. I know for sure because I watch the same show each day and 55 now sounds very low.

Would this mean the amp isn't able to put out as much watts as the old one? Perhaps defective?

1) I made sure that every setting was exactly the same on the new Denon as the old one.
2) I tried redoing the Audyssey setup in case it changed something I had no manual control over
3) I made sure all the speakers were solidly connected, and polarity was correct.
4) The old Denon was only exchanged because I thought it had a video issue, but it turned out to be the hdmi cable quality, so it's not because the old one had an audio issue.

Thanks for any advice you might have!
The former X2300W likely had "Dynamic Volume" enabled whereas the replacement does not.

Also note, that model specific questions are best served posted in their respective Owner's threads .. in this case the 2016 Denon AVR Owner's thread.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...hread-faq.html
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I had all settings exactly the same on both receivers, so I knew there had to be a problem.

It did turn out to be a defect of the receiver. after a day, when surround or digital surround was chosen instead of direct, all sorts of popping and high pitched noises started happening on all sources.

I'm going back to the original Denon and returning this 2nd one.

Jim
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post #17 of 30 Old 05-04-2018, 06:19 PM
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Folks...

Have a new X4400H. Looking to level volume so commercials are not so much loader than regular program. Haven;t been able to find this feature. Can you advise how to correct?

Thanks
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post #18 of 30 Old 05-05-2018, 04:15 AM
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I don't think that's possible for the most part, without seriously affecting the sound quality. I have huge level differences between different TV networks on the local cable I'm on. It's not as bad as it was 12 years or so ago, when alternate commercials on one channel would make me dive for the remote. Now, there are no "blasters" anywhere, but the local NBC channel is down considerably compared to CBS or ABC. There are a couple of other ones that are pretty weak too, and switching off of them to another channel risks getting blasted. Same goes for Net radio, some stations are very loud, most aren't and one I like is 10 DB down from the loud ones. It's like burning CDs in the 90s, before I got Nero with it's "Normalize" checkbox, and all the songs are about the same level.
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Originally Posted by Freddypop View Post
Folks...

Have a new X4400H. Looking to level volume so commercials are not so much loader than regular program. Haven;t been able to find this feature. Can you advise how to correct?

Thanks
In some cases turning on Dynamic Volume at its lowest setting can help.

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Originally Posted by nrd515 View Post
I don't think that's possible for the most part, without seriously affecting the sound quality. I have huge level differences between different TV networks on the local cable I'm on. It's not as bad as it was 12 years or so ago, when alternate commercials on one channel would make me dive for the remote. Now, there are no "blasters" anywhere, but the local NBC channel is down considerably compared to CBS or ABC. There are a couple of other ones that are pretty weak too, and switching off of them to another channel risks getting blasted. Same goes for Net radio, some stations are very loud, most aren't and one I like is 10 DB down from the loud ones. It's like burning CDs in the 90s, before I got Nero with it's "Normalize" checkbox, and all the songs are about the same level.
Audyssey Dynamic Volume (Medium).
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post #21 of 30 Old 05-08-2018, 01:04 PM
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In some cases turning on Dynamic Volume at its lowest setting can help.
I second that fully. I've actually registered especially to share my experience with X1400H. I happen to have some old Samsung Smart TV and every application content (Netflix, HBO GO) audio returned via ARC was extremely... cinematic I guess. What I mean by that - volume had extremely wide range - quiets were quiet, loud noises were loud. I have the Dynamic Volume set to the lowest, however I do not see any difference between the lowest and the highest at all. That said, difference of conversation volume with Dynamic Volume on and off is as if I dropped 20 bars (50 off -> 30 on) to be able to hear roughly the same volume in my room.

I guess it is actually intended behavior, as the source audio track provides that high volume range. Please, correct me on that one
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Hi everyone. I too am having an issue where watching a tv show and when it switches to commercials, the volume blares out.

I’ve just purchased a Denon avr-x1300w which is replacing a Pioneer VSX821.

Audyssey setup was performed at the beginning. I’m running a 5.1 setup. We have a Cisco TV receiver running into the receiver via HDMI. I’m wondering if I should try a toslink cable for sound?

For now I’ve lowered the dialog down a lot and that is a bit better.

I never had this issue with my old Pioneer.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cheers!
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post #23 of 30 Old 07-31-2018, 08:03 PM
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^^Turn on Dynamic Volume on your x1300. That will greatly help reduce those loud commercials.

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post #24 of 30 Old 07-31-2018, 08:07 PM
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Thanks for your quick response. I do have that turned on under light. Still commercials are louder than the show.

Cheers!
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That has to do with your cable box and provider then, not the Denon.

Check the settings on your cable box, maybe it has some kind of dynamic volume control. Not familiar with a Cisco TV receiver.

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post #26 of 30 Old 08-01-2018, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusted2000 View Post
Thanks for your quick response. I do have that turned on under light. Still commercials are louder than the show.

Cheers!
Then select either "Medium" or "Heavy."
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post #27 of 30 Old 08-01-2018, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusted2000 View Post
Thanks for your quick response. I do have that turned on under light. Still commercials are louder than the show.

Cheers!
Loud commercials are "working as intended". Even with the CALM act going into effect in 2012, providers are still using loopholes to draw attention to them. You can submit a complaint (just follow the link below), but I doubt it would do any good. The true fix is to cut the cord and stop giving them their advertisement dollars

https://www.thoughtco.com/filing-lou...laints-3974560

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post #28 of 30 Old 08-01-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguysb View Post
I had to exchange a Denon X2300W with an identical X2300W, but now I have to turn the volume up from 55 to 68 to have the same volume. I know for sure because I watch the same show each day and 55 now sounds very low.

Would this mean the amp isn't able to put out as much watts as the old one? Perhaps defective?

1) I made sure that every setting was exactly the same on the new Denon as the old one.
2) I tried redoing the Audyssey setup in case it changed something I had no manual control over
3) I made sure all the speakers were solidly connected, and polarity was correct.
4) The old Denon was only exchanged because I thought it had a video issue, but it turned out to be the hdmi cable quality, so it's not because the old one had an audio issue.

Thanks for any advice you might have!
Why is this a problem?

If 68 works, and the maximum is what; 80?

You still have 12 to go.
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post #29 of 30 Old 08-01-2018, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachguysb View Post
I had to exchange a Denon X2300W with an identical X2300W, but now I have to turn the volume up from 55 to 68 to have the same volume. I know for sure because I watch the same show each day and 55 now sounds very low.

Would this mean the amp isn't able to put out as much watts as the old one? Perhaps defective?
Your receiver is working as designed.

Modern calibrated volume controls do not provide an output which proportional to the receiver's power capacity. Rather they provide an output sound level which is to be compared to the sound level in a calibrated commercial movie theater.

After calibration, a volume control of setting of 80 (or 0) is "reference". That setting will generate a sound level at your main seating position (the first microphone position) which is the same as in a calibrated theater. Most people find this to be too loud in a home environment, so they usually turn it down to about 70 (or -10dB) for movies. Music does not have a comparable standard and has been subject to "loudness wars" (they keep increasing the recorded sound level and compressing it more), so CDs typically sound better at a volume control setting another 10dB lower, in the vicinity of 60 or -20dB depending on which volume scale you've selected in the receiver.

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post #30 of 30 Old 08-01-2018, 04:49 PM
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Today...
Major audio brand AVRs utilize a calibrated volume level scale and software..
They start @ like -80dB and go up to +10dB, channel trims are @ 0 dB...
The basic AVR is a gain platform...
It will output a specified RMS voltage when driven by a specified input level.
For example, the input level of 1 VRMS, and when the volume level is set to 0dB this equates to rated power output...
If any channel trim is adjusted up or down, then the highest possible, max setting of the volume control is adjusted accordingly. If a channel trim is adjusted to +5dB then the maximum volume level setting will be decreased by 5dB keeping a total gain from input to output consistent. This permits the volume level software to be the same for an AVR of the same brand that outputs 50W/CH or another AVR that outputs 100W/CH.

The dilemma for the AVR software programmers is that most consumers don't relate to the -80dB to +10dB range though being accurate technically, so many times a simpler-to-understand volume level scale such as "0 up +100" is available through an OSD menu option...

Just my $0.02...
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