Owner's Thread for Pioneer SC-LX701 / SC-801 / SC-LX901 Receviers - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1711 of 2170 Old 03-14-2019, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Yamaha Dialog Lift somewhat works. It works by doing a centre spread (it does a band-pass and spreading centre channel to left and right channels).
It will also use the Front Height speakers.

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post #1712 of 2170 Old 03-14-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Yamaha Dialog Lift somewhat works. It works by doing a centre spread (it does a band-pass and spreading centre channel to left and right channels).
It will also use the Front Height speakers.
If you use front height, yes.

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post #1713 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Dialogue Lift is a Yamaha thing. LX701 I think has Dialogue Enhancement. I own the 802 and never used it. Once every thing has been calibrated properly, dialogue enhancement is never needed. None of my calibration clients ever need the DE feature at all.
I'm quite happy with dialog lift in my lx901

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post #1714 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I was guessing that was the case...





I never use Dialogue Enhancement as it typically just increases the dialogue volume. However I really like Dialogue Lift (for my installation) since the center is mounted below the screen (pointed right over my head) it is rather distracting... to the point at times I'll find myself staring at the center speaker instead of the screen... listening.



Yamaha does a great job of "lifting" the dialog into the screen integrating the front and or height speakers. It's adjustable enough that you can dial in the dialogue to the point it's coming from the screen not underneath it. And over the years I haven't noticed any down side unless you crank it up to its highest settings.
The same with pioneer if front heights available

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post #1715 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vavan View Post
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Dialogue Lift is a Yamaha thing. LX701 I think has Dialogue Enhancement. I own the 802 and never used it. Once every thing has been calibrated properly, dialogue enhancement is never needed. None of my calibration clients ever need the DE feature at all.
I'm quite happy with dialog lift in my lx901

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How can you be happy with a feature that does not exist? Also Pioneer’s DE does not use band-pass filter or variable centre-spread.

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post #1716 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
How can you be happy with a feature that does not exist? Also Pioneer’s DE does not use band-pass filter or variable centre-spread.
No doubting you but what is the source of info on what it is doing?

I haven't found much technical detail on Pioneer's implementation of features.
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post #1717 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 08:01 AM
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How can you be happy with a feature that does not exist? Also Pioneer’s DE does not use band-pass filter or variable centre-spread.
No doubting you but what is the source of info on what it is doing?

I haven't found much technical detail on Pioneer's implementation of features.
I measured multi channel pink noise using AudioControl RTA and play around with the settings and see the results. Plus I used to be the Canadian product trainer for Pioneer Electronics, the same with Yamaha too and a couple of other brands (the names are under NDA)
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post #1718 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
How can you be happy with a feature that does not exist? Also Pioneer’s DE does not use band-pass filter or variable centre-spread.
It does exist in pioneer and I can control it using 1 to 4 value effectively selecting how much it does raise dialog level. My center channel is on the floor and it sounded way too low until I added FH and activated DE. How can you tell it doesn't exist when it does?

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post #1719 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
How can you be happy with a feature that does not exist? Also Pioneer’s DE does not use band-pass filter or variable centre-spread.
It does exist in pioneer and I can control it using 1 to 4 value effectively selecting how much it does raise dialog level. My center channel is on the floor and it sounded way too low until I added FH and activated DE. How can you tell it doesn't exist when it does?

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DE exists not DF. DF lifts the imaging upwards AND band-pass. DE in Pioneer does not lift and does not use band-pass (only centre spread)

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post #1720 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
DE exists not DF. DF lifts the imaging upwards AND band-pass. DE in Pioneer does not lift and does not use band-pass (only centre spread)
I don't really care how they called it but when activated it does make dialogs sound lifted the more the higher value I select

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post #1721 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by vavan View Post
Quote:
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DE exists not DF. DF lifts the imaging upwards AND band-pass. DE in Pioneer does not lift and does not use band-pass (only centre spread)
I don't really care how they called it but when activated it does make dialogs sound lifted the more the higher value I select

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You STILL don’t understand. It’s not only name difference.

Yamaha’s Dialogue Lift actually lift the imaging of the centre channel higher. Imagine physicially lifting the centre channel up.

Pioneer’s Dialogue Enhancement is spreading the centre channel to all frontal speakers and volume level.

The end results are VERY DIFFERENT

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post #1722 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Yamaha’s Dialogue Lift actually lift the imaging of the centre channel higher. Imagine physicially lifting the centre channel up.

Pioneer’s Dialogue Enhancement is spreading the centre channel to all frontal speakers and volume level.
OK we agree Dialogue Enhancement is available in the LX701? I can't find it in the Advanced Manual (SC-LX801/SC-LX701). Perhaps it's only available on the LX901?

Assuming it does exist when activated it sends a lower volume of the (entire) center channel audio to the front speakers (front/front heights)? Higher the setting the higher the volume it sends. Where the Yamaha does as well except it only redirects the vocal range of the center channel's audio?

I'm presuming since my front and height speakers are higher than the center speaker the Pioneer would "raise" the height of the vocals... perhaps along with the rest of the center channel's audio. I just sold my Yamaha RX-A3060 and I'm trying to decide between a Denon AVR-X4500H and the LX701. Price isn't a factor and I'm leaning towards the Denon but the dialogue feature might sway me towards the Pioneer. The Denon is much newer (probably much better EQing of my two subs as well) and will have a much higher resell price going forward.

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post #1723 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 11:02 AM
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It’s there on my 801. It’s not accessed through menu but from AV setting through the OSD. I won’t be home until the weekend but if I can find out from my wife I’ll post it back here.
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post #1724 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 11:12 AM
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Googling Dialogue Enhancement (instead of Dialogue Lift) I found confirmation it exists...

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...SC-LX701#specs

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post #1725 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
You STILL don’t understand. It’s not only name difference.

Yamaha’s Dialogue Lift actually lift the imaging of the centre channel higher. Imagine physicially lifting the centre channel up.

Pioneer’s Dialogue Enhancement is spreading the centre channel to all frontal speakers and volume level.

The end results are VERY DIFFERENT
I can't understand that as long as I never heard yamaha's dl, but for me pioneer DE does exactly that, lifts center channel 1 to 4 levels higher and I hope now you can understand why I'm quite happy with it's effect

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post #1726 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 01:32 PM
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I first ran across this feature with the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 A/V Receiver (a decade ago). It had a cult following because of the Trinnov Audio Optimizer which was way ahead of its time. When you turn the feature to its highest setting it would routed the vocals to the surrounds/rear surrounds (too). It pretty much placed them "in the center of the room" and it felt like you were in the middle of the conversation. I have tried using no center speaker/virtual center as well and for my room it becomes too directional unless you are sitting in the middle seats.

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post #1727 of 2170 Old 03-15-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vavan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
You STILL don’t understand. It’s not only name difference.

Yamaha’s Dialogue Lift actually lift the imaging of the centre channel higher. Imagine physicially lifting the centre channel up.

Pioneer’s Dialogue Enhancement is spreading the centre channel to all frontal speakers and volume level.

The end results are VERY DIFFERENT
I can't understand that as long as I never heard yamaha's dl, but for me pioneer DE does exactly that, lifts center channel 1 to 4 levels higher and I hope now you can understand why I'm quite happy with it's effect

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Sigh. It’s NOT higher, just louder and all over the place.

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post #1728 of 2170 Old 03-16-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I first ran across this feature with the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 A/V Receiver (a decade ago). It had a cult following because of the Trinnov Audio Optimizer which was way ahead of its time. When you turn the feature to its highest setting it would routed the vocals to the surrounds/rear surrounds (too). It pretty much placed them "in the center of the room" and it felt like you were in the middle of the conversation. I have tried using no center speaker/virtual center as well and for my room it becomes too directional unless you are sitting in the middle seats.
I think you're talking about 3D remapping, which uses multiple speakers as necessary based on physical locations to replicate an ideal speaker placement (which back then was either "music" or "movies", based on the recommended 2.0/5.1/7.1 layouts). The 3D part was that it took both azimuth (horizontal angels) as well as elevation (vertical ones) into account. One nice thing you could do is have a 5.1 layout with a horizontal center speaker, add a secondary speaker above it, and use 3D remapping to lift that center channel up to better match the "ideal".

The late R-972 was problematic as an AVR, but the Trinnov capabilities were SOTA for the time (circa 2009), as a hard-wired version of default settings in their more sophisticated pro audio and now their high end A/V products. I doubt I'd have wound up with a Trinnov Altitude for my HT if I hadn't had a Sherwood first.

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post #1729 of 2170 Old 03-17-2019, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Sigh. It’s NOT higher, just louder and all over the place.
Sure it is and only if FH available

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post #1730 of 2170 Old 03-17-2019, 01:00 PM
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Hi SpikyCactus, beside the amp settings...on the TV enable ANYNET+ found under General > External Device Manger and set Sound Output to RECEIVER HDMI/EXTERNAL SPEAKER found under Sound > Sound Output.
You might have to power down all devices, unplug TV power cord, wait about 15 second, reconnect power cord and turn TV on.
Hello. I had a look at these settings but they were already set up as you've suggested.

However, I've spent ages more or less randomly changing various settings mainly in the amp, a bit like infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters, on the off-chance that something might work... and it did! Unfortunately I'm really not quite sure what I did, as I'd got to the stage of not really expecting anything to make a difference so wasn't being very logical about it or recording what I'd done and when. Hopefully it won't stop working again.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, it may be that something there was part of the solution.
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post #1731 of 2170 Old 03-20-2019, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Sigh. It’s NOT higher, just louder and all over the place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vavan View Post
Sure it is and only if FH available

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Hi both David and vavan.

This is what I found in the Advanced Manual about this matter:

Quote:
Center Spread :
Adjust the width of the sound field of the front channel when playing in the Dolby Surround listening mode. To spread the width of the sound field to the left and right, set to "On". To concentrate sound in the center, set to "Off".
  • Depending on the speaker settings, this becomes "Off".

Dialog Control :
You can increase the dialog portion of the audio in 1 dB steps up to 6 dB so that you can make dialog easier to hear over background noise.
  • This cannot be set for content other than DTS:X.
  • The effect may not be selectable with some content.

Dialog Enhancement :
By adjusting the localization of the center elements, you can make it easier to hear dialog in movies or give more prominence to the vocals in music. If you are using front high speakers, you can select from "1" (low) to "4" (high).
  • This cannot be set for DTS:X playback.
  • It cannot be set if the listening mode is Direct or Pure Direct.
I think it's mostly about the last two subjects in my quote above
See this link: https://jp.pioneer-audiovisual.com/m...dv/en/007.html

So I think you both are a bit right

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post #1732 of 2170 Old 03-20-2019, 02:22 AM
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I was talking about that part: "If you are using front high speakers, you can select from "1" (low) to "4" (high)" and I'm quite happy it actually raises the sound from the floor to the display center for me

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post #1733 of 2170 Old 03-20-2019, 02:53 PM
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Sooo Im setup ing up my first home theater for living room... I can grab a?n lx701 for $500. Should I grab that or is it too old? Looking to do 5.2.2 or 5.2.4... I can also grab a 102 for 175 but that doesn't look like it'll cut it.

Thoughts?
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post #1734 of 2170 Old 03-21-2019, 07:38 PM
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The 701 for $500 isnt a bad deal. It's still a current reciever. They don't have a newer model for it yet. It can do up to 7.2.4. I just paid $340 for a 501. I would have definitely got the 701 for $500 instead
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post #1735 of 2170 Old 03-23-2019, 12:53 AM
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I grabbed an 801 for 600 instead. Looking to pair it with some klipsch reference in walls.
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post #1736 of 2170 Old 03-23-2019, 01:51 AM
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I grabbed an 801 for 600 instead. Looking to pair it with some klipsch reference in walls.
Good price, where did you get that?

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post #1737 of 2170 Old 03-23-2019, 08:07 PM
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Anyone in the Seattle area looking for a 901, the Bellevue Best Buy has an open box model for $999.
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post #1738 of 2170 Old 03-26-2019, 04:22 PM
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hey,can I hook up a wireless center speaker with the LX-701?If so how do I go about it
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post #1739 of 2170 Old 03-26-2019, 08:33 PM
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hey,can I hook up a wireless center speaker with the LX-701?If so how do I go about it
I have a 701. I don't remember seeing anything about support for wireless speakers. I don't think it's possible without 3rd party hardware (like maybe something that connects to the center outs, then xfers that to a separate station to connect to the speaker itself). I don't even know if such a thing exists.
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post #1740 of 2170 Old 03-27-2019, 02:37 PM
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I am running 5.1.4 on the LX901
Been thinking about using the last two channels to go between the front speakers and the surround speakers on the rear wall
But will I be able to hear a difference when the LX901 has to upmix everything?
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590 , 7.1.4 , atmos , av receivers , jbl studio , Pioneer , pioneer receiver , pioneer sc-lx801 , receiver , sc lx 801 , sc lx 901

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