Official Marantz AV7703 Thread - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #691 of 1720 Old 02-21-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
I heard you'll no longer need sub#2 for VOg is that true or the 7011- read somewhere it'll be a rear channel or something
Not true.
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post #692 of 1720 Old 02-21-2017, 06:44 PM
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Not true.
Awe that's lame- so you have to split subwoofer the /-- seems impractical.
Unless you can still run dual subs via xlr? Sorry for noob questions their site isn't very informative and I know your the king guru
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post #693 of 1720 Old 02-22-2017, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
Awe that's lame- so you have to split subwoofer the /-- seems impractical.
Unless you can still run dual subs via xlr? Sorry for noob questions their site isn't very informative and I know your the king guru
Correct. With dual subs, you can run Audyssey twice to dial in each sub connected separately to the sub pre-out 1 and then after doing so, connect the "Y" splitter and run Audyssey again a 3rd time.
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post #694 of 1720 Old 02-22-2017, 02:50 PM
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Hello - I am in the process of upgrading my audio setup and was looking for options wrt pre-amps. Right now debating between the 7703 and Yamaha CX5100. I know pricewise they are not that different and same goes for performance (based on the threads I read). However; there seems to be a lot of software/network glitches on the 7703 making many recommend the Yamaha over this and that has got me confused.

Being a previous owner of a marantz pre-amp, I want to go with the 7703 but these 'issues' as such is making me think twice. As a owner of this unit, what do you guys feel ?
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post #695 of 1720 Old 02-22-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpion83 View Post
Hello - I am in the process of upgrading my audio setup and was looking for options wrt pre-amps. Right now debating between the 7703 and Yamaha CX5100. I know pricewise they are not that different and same goes for performance (based on the threads I read). However; there seems to be a lot of software/network glitches on the 7703 making many recommend the Yamaha over this and that has got me confused.

Being a previous owner of a marantz pre-amp, I want to go with the 7703 but these 'issues' as such is making me think twice. As a owner of this unit, what do you guys feel ?
I haven't been closely following this thread, so I'm not familiar with the software/network glitches that you are referencing. However, I have had the 7703 for around a month now and I haven't experienced any glitches. I have mine hardwired into my network and I use the Marantz and HEOS apps daily. Everything works great.
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post #696 of 1720 Old 02-22-2017, 05:49 PM
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I will be hard wiring mine to the network as well and this certainly is good news. Thank you for the update.


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Originally Posted by cavalier240 View Post
I haven't been closely following this thread, so I'm not familiar with the software/network glitches that you are referencing. However, I have had the 7703 for around a month now and I haven't experienced any glitches. I have mine hardwired into my network and I use the Marantz and HEOS apps daily. Everything works great.
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post #697 of 1720 Old 02-24-2017, 06:13 PM
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Looking to begin my HT uprade with this pre/pro and sometimes I get confused reading specs. So my simple question is that I will be putting in a 7.1.4 set-up in my HT and need to be sure this pre/pro will allow me to do this. Thanks so much for your help.

EQUIPMENT:LG OLED77C8PUA (ISF calibrated by Jeff Meier)-OPPO BDP-203 blu-ray player-OPPO DV-983H dvd player-Pioneer CLD-99 laser disc player-Marantz 7703 Preamplifier-200x3 Acurus amplifier-150x2 Acurus amplifier-Emotiva UPA-2 amplifier-Outlaw Model 5000 amplifier-2 Mythos 4-1 Mythos 8-2 Mythos BPX-2 NHT Super Zeros-4 SVS Prime Elevation speakers-Hsu VTF-2 MK3 subwoofer-Elite-Xbox One S-Roku Ultra streaming player
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post #698 of 1720 Old 02-24-2017, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jbhur212 View Post
Looking to begin my HT uprade with this pre/pro and sometimes I get confused reading specs. So my simple question is that I will be putting in a 7.1.4 set-up in my HT and need to be sure this pre/pro will allow me to do this. Thanks so much for your help.
Yes, it is an 11CH model and can do Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4.
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post #699 of 1720 Old 02-25-2017, 09:32 PM
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Yes, it is an 11CH model and can do Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

EQUIPMENT:LG OLED77C8PUA (ISF calibrated by Jeff Meier)-OPPO BDP-203 blu-ray player-OPPO DV-983H dvd player-Pioneer CLD-99 laser disc player-Marantz 7703 Preamplifier-200x3 Acurus amplifier-150x2 Acurus amplifier-Emotiva UPA-2 amplifier-Outlaw Model 5000 amplifier-2 Mythos 4-1 Mythos 8-2 Mythos BPX-2 NHT Super Zeros-4 SVS Prime Elevation speakers-Hsu VTF-2 MK3 subwoofer-Elite-Xbox One S-Roku Ultra streaming player
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post #700 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 01:16 AM
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Good Morning Vince. IMHO, the pending app will become a big deal. I have customers who have absolutely no intentions of ever buying it for $20 (I think that is a mistake). For me at least, the app is worth a lot of $$'s. I'd pay $300 for it in a heartbeat let alone $20. To illustrate that, you will see a lot of people buying a Dirac - miniDSP's and using it with 8802a's and other prepros. A big part of that is for the ability to customize (target curves etc), ignore EQ on certain speakers or FR locations.

.....

The issue with "set it and forget it" is that, out of the box, the speakers are "voiced". Sandy Gross will spend time tweaking crossovers to get a "house sound" that people love. Yea, the FR is basically flat. But make no mistake, a subjective element is added to every speakers FR. For instance the lower FR (like most speakers) have a bump on the bottom end. That's because subjectively, Harman's researched proved that all humans prefer it. Also, XT-32 rolls off the top end ever-so-slightly. Well, you may like the "voiced" top end sound of your speaker. It may be a big reason why some people like Anthem's room EQ. That's because in order to get 24-96K sampling rate, Anthem stopped correcting at around 14kHz (if they corrected out to 20kHz, they would need a lot more DSP MIPS or horsepower). Make no mistake, that was a cost cutting measure.. It's also why some people prefer no XT-32 (as we discussed, it takes out any "voicing"). So with the app, you can put in a bump on the lower end, not correct on the top end, only correct the sub or sides, etc, etc, etc. The end user has control for those who want it Note: the 77702mkii will never have this app. It cannot be done because they are using RAM from the newer generation DSP which isn't available on the 7702mkii.

As for the release date of that app. While I was in Japan talking to the powers in charge, I got the distinct feeling that D&M really wanted to get the app right! And if that meant a delay, so be it. It's an important feature for them and they don't want the experience to be anything but positive.
I hope the app will live up to what you wrote above. It's a significant part of my decision to consider moving to the AV7703. The delay is not good news though.
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post #701 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 03:52 AM
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I just ordered a refurbished AV7703 for this very reason - the app. I am hoping that it's everything promised and more... I could have gotten a mkii for a lot less. I figure the refurbished availability will dry up once the app is released if it is as good as promised. I hope the gamble was worth it.
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post #702 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpion83 View Post
Hello - I am in the process of upgrading my audio setup and was looking for options wrt pre-amps. Right now debating between the 7703 and Yamaha CX5100. I know pricewise they are not that different and same goes for performance (based on the threads I read). However; there seems to be a lot of software/network glitches on the 7703 making many recommend the Yamaha over this and that has got me confused.

Being a previous owner of a marantz pre-amp, I want to go with the 7703 but these 'issues' as such is making me think twice. As a owner of this unit, what do you guys feel ?
I've sold a boat load of the 77XX prepros's. The 7702's had wireless network connectivity issues for a certain amount of customers. They used a better wireless board on the mkii's. I'd characterize the 7703 is extremely reliable. When the 7702 was released, I quickly sold 50+ and about 20% were struggling. Additionally there were more than a few customers having to reset their networks more than a few times. I don't know if they released firmware updates, running changes on hardware or what. But what I can confirm is that after 6-8 months, those calls were a thing of the past. For ME personally, I was constantly plugging and unplugging my power cord to make Airplay work. Personally, I am not an Airplay fan unless I set-up a dedicated network; even then I worry about a problem when I have guests over. Others have had much better results with Airplay. But I'm not going to participate now that I have the embedded HEOS Link. For me, HEOS Link (when listening to the 7703) is positively BULLET PROOF as I am enjoying music as we speak. Also, I have an Ethernet connection into my 7703. Plus, I blew some $$ on my router (https://www.netgear.com/landings/ad7...etgear_organic ); go big or go home!

Let's fast forward to the 7703. I would be in the loop through customer complaints if there were problems with networking on the 7703. Thankfully, the problem phone calls are dead quiet. As I like to joke with customers, THEY despise problems. But I am a couple hundred times more concerned. I refuse to sell problems. Obviously D&M (or Yamaha) are couple hundred times more concerned than I am. In short, sleep like a baby. There are no networking concerns related to the 7703.

Steve (Owner) Sound Video

Last edited by SteveH; 02-26-2017 at 06:42 AM.
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post #703 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 06:39 AM
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I hope the app will live up to what you wrote above. It's a significant part of my decision to consider moving to the AV7703. The delay is not good news though.
When I was in Japan in October, the guy in charge said he "hoped to get it finished" by the end of December. Well, I "hope to lose some weight" by summer too. To me, that meant it wasn't a line in the sand and probably, the date would slip. So "end of December" wasn't an official promised release date, but rather a date that would happen IF it was solid. A product release by them (like a 7702mkii, 7703, or a 7704) is alway spot on. But this is software purchased on Google Play or iTunes. So getting it right is important.

In my conversations with those in charge of the app, they really wanted it to be released when it was actually ready versus rushing. In other words, they didn't want to have customers be Beta testers. We all know products and software that release too soon. So back in October, I placed my bet that they are waiting to get it right and "late December" was a goal that probably wouldn't happen.

As you might guess, this project is a lot of effort. It's going to be a major upgrade that I've been anxious to use myself. As in literally; I want to take off some "bite" on the top end of the automatic FR curves that were applied as I'm listening to this very moment. It's like adding or taking off one extra shake of salt on a meal. for passionate people, those small differences are a big deal. So hang in there.

In short, if they delay again (and I am not saying they are or are not; I don't know), it's delay for a reason. That all said, it's going to happen. If I was in charge of this project, I'd want to nail it. After all, if we were in their shoes, we would want to sell a lot of $20 apps to payback all of the engineering effort that has spent on this project.

Steve (Owner) Sound Video
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post #704 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 04:07 PM
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I always thought the app to adjust the Audyssey curve and correction range will be develop by Audyssey company, not Denon/Marantz. Anyway, I hope it is good plus if there is a way to use calibrated mic, that would be perfect.
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post #705 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 04:08 PM
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I always thought the app to adjust the Audyssey curve and correction range will be develop by Audyssey company, not Denon/Marantz. Anyway, I hope it is good plus if there is a way to use calibrated mic, that would be perfect.
The app will use the current Audyssey mic released with the AVR.
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post #706 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 05:56 PM
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The app will use the current Audyssey mic released with the AVR.
Technically, if you have a calibrated mic, you could always compare the audyssey one and yours and in theory compare the results to determine what kind of customer curve you 'really' need. In theory anyway.
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post #707 of 1720 Old 02-26-2017, 06:34 PM
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I think best way is to buy few calibration mic, run REW and compare to a calibrated mic. Choose the one with the closest response and sell the rest. There is a thread previously comparing different Audyssey mic which is same model but from different receiver. Most are quite accurately match to each other at low frequency but once going up, the differences become quite drastic.
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post #708 of 1720 Old 02-27-2017, 04:12 AM
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You know, I just had a thought/question. Does Audyssey also calibrate the Atmos ceiling speakers? If not, is there at least some kind of EQ available? I wonder if they could benefit from some REW.
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post #709 of 1720 Old 02-27-2017, 07:25 AM
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You know, I just had a thought/question. Does Audyssey also calibrate the Atmos ceiling speakers? If not, is there at least some kind of EQ available? I wonder if they could benefit from some REW.
Yes, Audyssey room EQ is applied to the overhead speakers.

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post #710 of 1720 Old 02-27-2017, 10:42 AM
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I think best way is to buy few calibration mic, run REW and compare to a calibrated mic. Choose the one with the closest response and sell the rest. There is a thread previously comparing different Audyssey mic which is same model but from different receiver. Most are quite accurately match to each other at low frequency but once going up, the differences become quite drastic.

I wonder if you could run the adsy mic through your computer first and use REW to correct the random imperfections.

I mean, if there is a study on adsy mics specifically, then there should be some idea of the "ideal" response for these types of mics which we would assume is what adsy is calibrated against.

And by ideal I don't necessarily mean flattest, because perhaps super flat is actually the outlier, but +3db at 9000hz, and -1db at 12khz, and +7db at 16khz is what adsy software is expecting from the average marantz mic, then we could ensure that REW is correcting the mic to produce this non-flat-yet-ideal response.

I suppose this could induce some time delay issues which may or may not affect adsy measurements and which may or may not be addressable through tweaking the speaker distances after the fact.

Could you link to that adsy mic comparison?

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post #711 of 1720 Old 02-27-2017, 03:43 PM
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I wonder if you could run the adsy mic through your computer first and use REW to correct the random imperfections.

I mean, if there is a study on adsy mics specifically, then there should be some idea of the "ideal" response for these types of mics which we would assume is what adsy is calibrated against.

And by ideal I don't necessarily mean flattest, because perhaps super flat is actually the outlier, but +3db at 9000hz, and -1db at 12khz, and +7db at 16khz is what adsy software is expecting from the average marantz mic, then we could ensure that REW is correcting the mic to produce this non-flat-yet-ideal response.

I suppose this could induce some time delay issues which may or may not affect adsy measurements and which may or may not be addressable through tweaking the speaker distances after the fact.

Could you link to that adsy mic comparison?
Without a mean to upload the correction file back to the receiver, you might need to manually tune the curve based on REW sweep with calibrated mic.
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post #712 of 1720 Old 02-28-2017, 07:24 AM
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I wonder if you could run the adsy mic through your computer first and use REW to correct the random imperfections.

I mean, if there is a study on adsy mics specifically, then there should be some idea of the "ideal" response for these types of mics which we would assume is what adsy is calibrated against.

And by ideal I don't necessarily mean flattest, because perhaps super flat is actually the outlier, but +3db at 9000hz, and -1db at 12khz, and +7db at 16khz is what adsy software is expecting from the average marantz mic, then we could ensure that REW is correcting the mic to produce this non-flat-yet-ideal response.

I suppose this could induce some time delay issues which may or may not affect adsy measurements and which may or may not be addressable through tweaking the speaker distances after the fact.

Could you link to that adsy mic comparison?

In principle one could tune the signal coming from the microphone so that Audyssey in the receiver produces the desired result.

(Audyssey or other mic) -> (computerized filter) -> (receiver) to configure Audyssey's filters

(rew in computer) -> [HDMI] -> (receiver) -> (speakers) -> (calibrated mic) to measure results

Bear in mind that the corrections to apply to the Audyssey microphone's signal would be inverted: attenuate the frequencies in the microphone's signal where you want the receiver's output signal to be amplified, and vice versa. I dunno if there's any way to invert REW's values that way.

You might consider asking about that possibility in the REW thread at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html

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post #713 of 1720 Old 02-28-2017, 12:30 PM
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In principle one could tune the signal coming from the microphone so that Audyssey in the receiver produces the desired result.

(Audyssey or other mic) -> (computerized filter) -> (receiver) to configure Audyssey's filters

(rew in computer) -> [HDMI] -> (receiver) -> (speakers) -> (calibrated mic) to measure results

Bear in mind that the corrections to apply to the Audyssey microphone's signal would be inverted: attenuate the frequencies in the microphone's signal where you want the receiver's output signal to be amplified, and vice versa. I dunno if there's any way to invert REW's values that way.

You might consider asking about that possibility in the REW thread at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
@Selden Ball
Thanks for the replies and the link.

As for inverting REW values, if I understand you correctly then I believe this is possible. If you have ever used a .cal calibration file in REW you can open it with a text editor and you will see that it is simply a list of frequencies with +/- offsets. So while it might be tedious, it should be fairly simple to create or edit an existing calibration file to produce a mic response that more closely mimics Audyssey's expectations.

@rjyap

In this hypothetical scenario, instead of running the mic directly to the reciever you would run it through a laptop with REW, and REW would modify the recording (via .cal file) before sending it to the reciever.

But wait!...
As I type these replies...I'm starting to think that the .cal files are actually only modifying the graphical output (so that you see the "true" representation of the sound, based on corrections of the imperfect recording) but it's probably unlikely that REW would actually make real changes to the recorded audio stream itself, leaving the passed through signal unchanged... :-( Without your replies though, my thought experiment might have stopped short, so thanks! I'm pretty doubtful now that this would work without something more powerful like a separate EQ that WOULD in fact modify the audio stream before sending it to the receiver (MOTU 8A or MiniDSP for examaple). Darn!
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post #714 of 1720 Old 02-28-2017, 02:00 PM
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@Selden Ball
I'm pretty doubtful now that this would work without something more powerful like a separate EQ that WOULD in fact modify the audio stream before sending it to the receiver (MOTU 8A or MiniDSP for examaple). Darn!
I believe that REW can generate filters for Behringer Feedback Destroyers, which are relatively inexpensive. You'd need only one, I think. But, as I mentioned, ask in the REW thread. There are plenty of experts there.

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post #715 of 1720 Old 03-01-2017, 08:11 PM
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Hey all! I got my Marantz yesterday and finally got to setting it up today. It's pretty nice! My amps are an Emotiva XPR-5 and Crown Com-Tech 410s for the rest of the channels. I am ready for 7.2.4 amp wise, though only 7 speakers today.

Sounds great, though I had to bump up the subwoofer level a bunch, which is what it is I suppose.

I have a couple of questions though. My amps are all fairly powerful (and my speakers are all 90db+), so all but one channel (Center) are calibrated volume wise to -12db. If I recall correctly from my older Denon (my immediate predecessor was a Pioneer) -12db is actually the minimum, so it is very likely that the levels are not set correctly. Any advice? Do I have a choice but to manually set channel levels with the ol' radio shack meter?

Another issue, that is perhaps more important. I often listen to music while I hack away on my wireless keyboard, like I am right now. I have a projector, which I hope to upgrade to a 4K later this year, so I know what it's supposed to look like, and PC screens are great for noticing fine detail.

I noticed, while looking through this very forum, that the letters were 'bleeding'. Red mostly were slurring into the white between letters. I tried turning off video processing entirely, and it does indeed look perfect, but I lose all OSD, including basic volume controls. My Pioneer does not do this - video processing is perfect with on screen volume controls. This is a rather large problem for me...

Any advice? I don't have the room in my rack for the Yamaha... or it wouldn't be easy at any rate.

Thanks!
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post #716 of 1720 Old 03-02-2017, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by IBJamon View Post
Hey all! I got my Marantz yesterday and finally got to setting it up today. It's pretty nice! My amps are an Emotiva XPR-5 and Crown Com-Tech 410s for the rest of the channels. I am ready for 7.2.4 amp wise, though only 7 speakers today.

Sounds great, though I had to bump up the subwoofer level a bunch, which is what it is I suppose.

I have a couple of questions though. My amps are all fairly powerful (and my speakers are all 90db+), so all but one channel (Center) are calibrated volume wise to -12db. If I recall correctly from my older Denon (my immediate predecessor was a Pioneer) -12db is actually the minimum, so it is very likely that the levels are not set correctly. Any advice? Do I have a choice but to manually set channel levels with the ol' radio shack meter?

Another issue, that is perhaps more important. I often listen to music while I hack away on my wireless keyboard, like I am right now. I have a projector, which I hope to upgrade to a 4K later this year, so I know what it's supposed to look like, and PC screens are great for noticing fine detail.

I noticed, while looking through this very forum, that the letters were 'bleeding'. Red mostly were slurring into the white between letters. I tried turning off video processing entirely, and it does indeed look perfect, but I lose all OSD, including basic volume controls. My Pioneer does not do this - video processing is perfect with on screen volume controls. This is a rather large problem for me...

Any advice? I don't have the room in my rack for the Yamaha... or it wouldn't be easy at any rate.

Thanks!
You'll want to use either RCA or XLR attenuators for all but the center speaker connections:

http://www.parts-express.com/harriso...-pair--266-244

http://www.parts-express.com/in-line...-10db--240-412
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post #717 of 1720 Old 03-02-2017, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You'll want to use either RCA or XLR attenuators for all but the center speaker connections:

http://www.parts-express.com/harriso...-pair--266-244

http://www.parts-express.com/in-line...-10db--240-412
Thank you for the information on the input attenuators. I will look into it for the XLRs. I only would need 4 (the Crowns have their own knobs for this).

Any idea on the video processing issues? I need to know where to go for help on this. Is this something that I should start the RMA process for, or are they all like this?

Thanks again!
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post #718 of 1720 Old 03-02-2017, 06:25 AM
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Thank you for the information on the input attenuators. I will look into it for the XLRs. I only would need 4 (the Crowns have their own knobs for this).

Any idea on the video processing issues? I need to know where to go for help on this. Is this something that I should start the RMA process for, or are they all like this?

Thanks again!
Suggest you speak with your dealer for a RMA.
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post #719 of 1720 Old 03-02-2017, 06:26 AM
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Okay, thank you. Good to know.
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post #720 of 1720 Old 03-04-2017, 06:25 PM
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Okay, I just figured something out. If I set my video card to output YCbCr 4:2:2 pixel format, then anything processed by the AVP looks fine (though with less color range, naturally). If I use any of the RGB settings, or YCbCr 4:4:4, then when processed through the Marantz (for OSD support) it distorts the colors.

Can someone else with a PC hooked up to their 7703 confirm if this is the case? Not being able to handle 4:4:4 color space seems like a huge failure here...

Thanks!
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