Official Marantz AV7703 Thread - Page 56 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1651 of 1720 Old 10-14-2018, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Recent D&M designs require that you set the master volume control to 80 (or 0 if you've changed the volume scale) while using the test tones.
Thanks, will try 80 when using "Test Tones."

Very strange!

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post #1652 of 1720 Old 10-23-2018, 08:25 AM
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I'm looking for some suggestions to solve an issue I'm having with my 7703.

I have and Oppo 205 and and Pro-ject turntable connected to my 7703. I want to pass as pure an analog signal as I can through the 7703 and bypass the 7703's DAC's for both of these sources. I have and outboard phono preamp for the turntable and I want to use the 205's ESS DAC. Since the only way to bypass the 7703's DAC is through the multichannel inputs I've been using a less than elegant solution of inserting a "Y" adapter into the inputs so whatever I'm listening to (the Pro-ject or Oppo) uses the multichannel in. I've run into a problem. Even with the Oppo in standby when I listen to the Pro-ject I'm am getting very muted sound. If I unplug the Oppo from it's side of the "Y" connector the sound returns to regular levels. There's some type of interference in the line that is affecting the output of the phono side, it seems as though the Oppo is putting out a very low voltage on the line even when off (standby). I've been thinking of getting an inexpensive rca switch to select one or the other source but wanted to ask for suggestions here first.

Any thoughts?

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post #1653 of 1720 Old 10-23-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Deucedriver View Post
I'm looking for some suggestions to solve an issue I'm having with my 7703.

I have and Oppo 205 and and Pro-ject turntable connected to my 7703. I want to pass as pure an analog signal as I can through the 7703 and bypass the 7703's DAC's for both of these sources. I have and outboard phono preamp for the turntable and I want to use the 205's ESS DAC. Since the only way to bypass the 7703's DAC is through the multichannel inputs I've been using a less than elegant solution of inserting a "Y" adapter into the inputs so whatever I'm listening to (the Pro-ject or Oppo) uses the multichannel in. I've run into a problem. Even with the Oppo in standby when I listen to the Pro-ject I'm am getting very muted sound. If I unplug the Oppo from it's side of the "Y" connector the sound returns to regular levels. There's some type of interference in the line that is affecting the output of the phono side, it seems as though the Oppo is putting out a very low voltage on the line even when off (standby). I've been thinking of getting an inexpensive rca switch to select one or the other source but wanted to ask for suggestions here first.

Any thoughts?
Your symptoms are consistent with using a simple Y cable adapter instead of a switch. A simple Y connector shorts the Oppo's outputs to the turntable's preamp outputs. This is not good. It potentially could damage both.

Instead, you need to use a line-level audio switch similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Stereo-Switch.../dp/B01N4B94LZ

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post #1654 of 1720 Old 10-23-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Deucedriver View Post
I'm looking for some suggestions to solve an issue I'm having with my 7703.

I have and Oppo 205 and and Pro-ject turntable connected to my 7703. I want to pass as pure an analog signal as I can through the 7703 and bypass the 7703's DAC's for both of these sources. I have and outboard phono preamp for the turntable and I want to use the 205's ESS DAC. Since the only way to bypass the 7703's DAC is through the multichannel inputs I've been using a less than elegant solution of inserting a "Y" adapter into the inputs so whatever I'm listening to (the Pro-ject or Oppo) uses the multichannel in. I've run into a problem. Even with the Oppo in standby when I listen to the Pro-ject I'm am getting very muted sound. If I unplug the Oppo from it's side of the "Y" connector the sound returns to regular levels. There's some type of interference in the line that is affecting the output of the phono side, it seems as though the Oppo is putting out a very low voltage on the line even when off (standby). I've been thinking of getting an inexpensive rca switch to select one or the other source but wanted to ask for suggestions here first.

Any thoughts?
I'm surprised you haven't just tried hooking the turntable up to one of the line level stereo analog inputs (since you already have an external phono amp) and just used the "Pure Direct" mode which (I think) is supposed to disable all of the DAC and Audyssey functions of the 7703. The "Direct" mode does the same thing but doesn't disable analog video processing.

Last edited by Sevenfeet; 10-23-2018 at 03:10 PM.
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post #1655 of 1720 Old 10-24-2018, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post
I'm surprised you haven't just tried hooking the turntable up to one of the line level stereo analog inputs (since you already have an external phono amp) and just used the "Pure Direct" mode which (I think) is supposed to disable all of the DAC and Audyssey functions of the 7703. The "Direct" mode does the same thing but doesn't disable analog video processing.
Unfortunately that doesn't happen. The only inputs that allow the DAC's to be bypassed are the multi-channel in. All other inputs run the signal through the DAC's effectively "digitizing" the signal. I wish what you said is true, it would be much easier. Pure Direct turns off the processing and the video processing, etc., but the signal has still gone through the DAC.
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post #1656 of 1720 Old 10-24-2018, 09:12 AM
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Unfortunately that doesn't happen. The only inputs that allow the DAC's to be bypassed are the multi-channel in. All other inputs run the signal through the DAC's effectively "digitizing" the signal. I wish what you said is true, it would be much easier. Pure Direct turns off the processing and the video processing, etc., but the signal has still gone through the DAC.
The DAC's are probably inaudible, but if losing bass management, etc doesn't concern you... Why not put to input of your L/R amp on a A-B switchbox, then the output of the phonopre on A and the L/R output of the 7300 on B. Then when your running on A, you have a pure analog feed if thats what you want.

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post #1657 of 1720 Old 10-24-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
The DAC's are probably inaudible, but if losing bass management, etc doesn't concern you... Why not put to input of your L/R amp on a A-B switchbox, then the output of the phonopre on A and the L/R output of the 7300 on B. Then when your running on A, you have a pure analog feed if thats what you want.
I don't know if there is much difference with the DAC in the chain, I'm sure it will be subtle. Having the analog signal from either the turntable or the 205's ESS DAC's sent through another digital to analog conversion would defeat the purpose of those two items, even though the difference may be subtle. I have full range speakers so I'm not really concerned about the bass management when listening to 2 channel audio through the turntable or the 205.

I've ordered a switchbox, they're not too expensive. The only other solution I've seen is to get a dedicated pre-pro with HT bypass, but that seems a little extreme for this setup.

Thanks for the input.
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post #1658 of 1720 Old 10-24-2018, 10:13 AM
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Unfortunately that doesn't happen. The only inputs that allow the DAC's to be bypassed are the multi-channel in. All other inputs run the signal through the DAC's effectively "digitizing" the signal. I wish what you said is true, it would be much easier. Pure Direct turns off the processing and the video processing, etc., but the signal has still gone through the DAC.
Do we actually know that? I went back to the manual and it's pretty obtuse on the subject. Maybe a call to D&M tech support could clear this up.
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post #1659 of 1720 Old 10-24-2018, 10:51 AM
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Do we actually know that? I went back to the manual and it's pretty obtuse on the subject. Maybe a call to D&M tech support could clear this up.
Yes, we do.
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post #1660 of 1720 Old 10-24-2018, 03:47 PM
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Yes, we do.
Well if that's the case, then the choices are only a proper A/B switch, or deciding that the 7703's DAC at default settings is good enough. I'm thinking of getting a turntable myself but it would only be installed in my analog tube pre-amp two channel room so no problems there.
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post #1661 of 1720 Old 10-24-2018, 04:01 PM
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I tried my 7703 vs my Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid 2-channel tube pre-amp and the 7703 was no match to the GG. I added a HT Bypass switch to the GG so I could easily toggle the my L/R speakers between the two preamps. I use the GG for my turntable and CD player only.

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post #1662 of 1720 Old 10-25-2018, 12:54 PM
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I tried my 7703 vs my Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid 2-channel tube pre-amp and the 7703 was no match to the GG. I added a HT Bypass switch to the GG so I could easily toggle the my L/R speakers between the two preamps. I use the GG for my turntable and CD player only.

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marchewd - I'm interested in how you have your setup with the Grounded Grid, I've been thinking about building the kit. If you're willing to share details please send me a PM. Thanks!
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post #1663 of 1720 Old 10-25-2018, 02:26 PM
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Deuce,
I can take some pictures later tonight when I am home. I have built several GG kits. It is a great product. My latest version is a custom made GG with a remote control. I also use an SMS-1 bass management system to integrate my sub into the GG.

On the GG, I installed a simple double poll switch. When it's toggled, it passes the L/R speakers into the GG. When it is pushed out, the L/R inputs from the Marantz bypasses the GG and goes straight to my amp. I will have to look at the wiring of the SMS-1 because I can't remember how I have it hooked up. But, the SMS-1 will extract the bass from the L/R signal and mix it into your sub. My sub has 2 inputs, so I have one input from the 7703 for movies and the 2nd input from the SMS-1 for music.

It is a pretty large difference in SQ between the 7703 and the GG with my turntable. CD playback is less of a difference, but you can tell the difference. However, for movies, the 7703 is outstanding.
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post #1664 of 1720 Old 10-25-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by marchewd View Post
It is a pretty large difference in SQ between the 7703 and the GG with my turntable. CD playback is less of a difference, but you can tell the difference. However, for movies, the 7703 is outstanding.

I would imagine the difference to be noticeable, but just to make a point for other readers. I'm sure the SQ being delivered by the 7703 on a basis of true accuracy is quite a bit in the lead over the GG tube amplification. There are any number of reasons why a listener may prefer the sound produced by the measurably distorted tube circuits, but if that is your taste in reproduction, fine. But if your interested in hearing what the producer intended the disc to sound like, stick with the 7703.
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post #1665 of 1720 Old 10-25-2018, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
I would imagine the difference to be noticeable, but just to make a point for other readers. I'm sure the SQ being delivered by the 7703 on a basis of true accuracy is quite a bit in the lead over the GG tube amplification. There are any number of reasons why a listener may prefer the sound produced by the measurably distorted tube circuits, but if that is your taste in reproduction, fine. But if your interested in hearing what the producer intended the disc to sound like, stick with the 7703.
Sal makes a point. The sound of tubes is different than solid state. I do prefer my music going through the tubes of the GG. I rarely listen to CDs anymore. I do have a good external DAC as well. However, vinyl sounds much more 3D, life-like with better dynamics through the GG than through the Marantz. Just my preference and opinion.

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post #1666 of 1720 Old 10-26-2018, 04:32 PM
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I decided to do a simple test of listening to a specific track of music (Keb' Mo's "That Hot Pink Blues Album", track 2 "Somebody Hurt You".) The "A" test is the track played through my Oppo 203 using the built in AKM DAC going into the 7703's 7.1ch input. The "B" test is my Oppo HA-2 portable DAC going into the 7703 via the analog inputs. And then I compared the HA-2 via "Direct/Pure Direct" and "Stereo", which includes the 7703's DAC doing Audyssey room correction. All music was played through Roon, directly for the Oppo 203, using a Mac for the HA-2 via USB.

First up, I played "Somebody Hurt You" through the Oppo 203 + 7.1ch input. It's is a live recording, and the track sounded as I expected...pretty balanced all the way around but lacking a mid-bass punch I was expecting from my system. Switching over to the Oppo HA-2 with the "Direct" setting, the recording seemed livelier but I had to take into account that the playback seemed at least 5 dbs louder. But even compensating for that, it was clear that there was extra mid-bass. Mid-bass got even more exaggerated when I went to the "Stereo" setting which gets Audyssey back into the mix. And then I realized that my 7703 was setup for "Audyssey Reference" which is biased toward movies and not the "Flat" setting which is more appropriate for music. Once I set it to flat, it was better, more rounded but I'm still doing a "double DAC" presentation. It's not terrible but I imagine that many purists wouldn't want to operate this way. I did figure out that "Direct" is pretty much the same as disabling Audyssey from the menu setting.

Finally to do a real "apples vs. oranges" test, I played the same track in my two channel listening room. So that room has a Oppo 205 playing through a Audible Illusions Modulus 3 tube pre-amp. Ironically, the two channel room has a working subwoofer which my home theater at present does not (both room have full range tower mains). The Oppo 205 and HA-2 are both ESS DAC devices (although the 205 is a big class above the HA-2) Upon playing the track in this room, the mid-bass came back without the bloaty feel of the Oppo HA-2 playing through Audyssey reference and more precise than Audyssey flat.

So what did I learn? I think that 7.1ch in is pretty similar but not quite the same as analog input "Direct" or without Audyssey. And I still like the tube amp room for music better but the 7703 is no slouch for regular listening. But if you do use the non 7.1 analog inputs, make sure you are using Direct or else you get introduced a bunch of stuff that's less desirable.
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post #1667 of 1720 Old 10-28-2018, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
The DAC's are probably inaudible, but if losing bass management, etc doesn't concern you... Why not put to input of your L/R amp on a A-B switchbox, then the output of the phonopre on A and the L/R output of the 7300 on B. Then when your running on A, you have a pure analog feed if thats what you want.
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Originally Posted by Deucedriver View Post
Unfortunately that doesn't happen. The only inputs that allow the DAC's to be bypassed are the multi-channel in. All other inputs run the signal through the DAC's effectively "digitizing" the signal. I wish what you said is true, it would be much easier. Pure Direct turns off the processing and the video processing, etc., but the signal has still gone through the DAC.
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Yes, we do.
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Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post
Well if that's the case, then the choices are only a proper A/B switch, or deciding that the 7703's DAC at default settings is good enough. I'm thinking of getting a turntable myself but it would only be installed in my analog tube pre-amp two channel room so no problems there.

I don't use analog inputs into an AVP so I've not previous thought much about this question. The added signal chain due to the extra signal routing described will be:

  • Some sort of an analog level adjustment circuit (with a negative gain, which will negatively affects the overall S/N) to assure that the analog voltage level fits within the input voltage limits of the analog-to-digital converter.

  • The ADC IC itself. This will likely be a lower spec. component than the DAC IC; ADC is non-trivial.

  • Whatever digital processing is done.

  • The DAC IC

  • The opamp based filter circuit after the DAC.

  • Plus lots of resistors along to add little bits of noise.


This signal path seems easily of lower quality than an OPPO 205.

Clearly it would be best to use the 7.1 channel RCA L & R inputs since they evidently bypass this ADC/DAC chain.


For best quality it does seem a good idea to bypass the AVR/AVP if the source is analog from a really high quality DAC.

Long ago I did a personal listening test of the Marantz AV8801 vs. the OPPO BDP-105 (level matched to .1 dB., but purely subjective of course). The two units tied for 2nd place. A Benchmark DAC2 won. Based on that test, just feeding the digital signal to the AV7703, 04, 05 or AV8805 whatever is available, may be essentially as good as using an OPPO unit with some sort of bypass, and certainly more straightforward. Feeding the digital signal into the AVP seems preferable to feeding the RCA's from an OPPO into an AVP.
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post #1668 of 1720 Old 10-30-2018, 11:52 AM
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I put a simple RCA switch in the setup for now, I may try the GG or some other setup in the near future, it's always fun to tinker around, and I'm guilty as most in this hobby.

I've been playing around with my Oppo 205 through various input/output scenarios. Oppo analog routed through the multi-channel in, HDMI out from the Oppo into the 7703, Oppo Analog into AUX1, Audyssey on, PURE DIRECT, etc. My bottom line, even though the different options sound different, they all sound good. Could I pick them out blind A/B? I have no idea. One thing is I have full range speakers, so if I use the HDMI in I gain access to my dual subs, obviously making a difference, but still comes down to preference. The 7703 still impresses, especially when we watch movies.

Thanks for all the input!
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post #1669 of 1720 Old 11-01-2018, 09:09 PM
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Another firmware update just hit.

1) JVC RS540, Yamaha CX-A5100, Outlaw Audio 7700 & 7140, Wharfedale Jade 7's series speakers, RSL C34e(Atmos)
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post #1670 of 1720 Old 11-02-2018, 05:23 AM
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Another firmware update just hit.
Any idea what's changed? Marantz as usual doesn't seem to publish info anywhere I can find - and (also as usual) any mention of an update is missing from their site and likely won't be up for a week or more.
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post #1671 of 1720 Old 11-02-2018, 10:28 PM
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I don't see any changes at all so far.

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post #1672 of 1720 Old 11-03-2018, 02:39 AM
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I don't see any changes at all so far.
Me either?

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post #1673 of 1720 Old 11-07-2018, 06:28 AM
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Another firmware update just hit.

There was a HEOS update for Denon October 31, I wonder if it maybe the same one for Marantz? I'm always afraid now to do an update until I know exactly what it is since Audioholics announced Dolby is planning on taking away our ability to up-mix Atmos with Auro.

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post #1674 of 1720 Old 11-07-2018, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy S View Post
There was a HEOS update for Denon October 31, I wonder if it maybe the same one for Marantz? I'm always afraid now to do an update until I know exactly what it is since Audioholics announced Dolby is planning on taking away our ability to up-mix Atmos with Auro.
That is only likely to occur on 2019 and newer models.
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post #1675 of 1720 Old 11-07-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
That is only likely to occur on 2019 and newer models.
Yes, that was how I've read it also.
Some very good reasons to stay with our 7703's and really nothing in the 7704's or 7705's to temp an upgrade. I got mine NIB at the $1499 closeout price with free shipping after the 7704 intro. I did add the $199 Auro upgrade but with hindsight it too was probably a waste of money for me. A great pre/pro for the $.
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post #1676 of 1720 Old 11-07-2018, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
Yes, that was how I've read it also.
Some very good reasons to stay with our 7703's and really nothing in the 7704's or 7705's to temp an upgrade. I got mine NIB at the $1499 closeout price with free shipping after the 7704 intro. I did add the $199 Auro upgrade but with hindsight it too was probably a waste of money for me. A great pre/pro for the $.


I did not do the $199 Auro upgrade, because would definitely be a waste of money for me. I only have a 5.1 system.


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post #1677 of 1720 Old 11-12-2018, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy S View Post
There was a HEOS update for Denon October 31, I wonder if it maybe the same one for Marantz? I'm always afraid now to do an update until I know exactly what it is since Audioholics announced Dolby is planning on taking away our ability to up-mix Atmos with Auro.
Well, we won’t be getting the eARC update, it’s AV7004 and newer: https://www.avsforum.com/denon-maran...hanced-web-ui/.

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post #1678 of 1720 Old 12-07-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jmaplewild View Post
I got 9.3 volts on the AV7703

just ran a 60hz tone in stereo mode, audyssey on, left channel level maxed on the AV7703. i was able to get to 86 on the dial before an overtone showed at 86.5, using a fluke voltage meter, i took two readings and got 9.3 volts. hard to believe, that is why i took the second reading

I did this again except I listened to a 1 Khz output on the Left channel. This time Audyssey Off, Speaker set to Large, Speaker level max at +12 DB. The absolute maximum dirty and clipped was 12.57 V. The maximum clean was only 6.15 V, still plenty but only half of the max and not near the 9.3 V before.

I then tested the sub output using a 60hrz signal with the sub level at +12, Audyssey off, the front speakers set to small and crossover at 250HRZ and able to get 9.3v before hearing an overtone/clipping. I didn't test for the maximum voltage output on the sub

This was using the XLR outputs and a CD with a 0db test tone fed to the AV7703 using an HDMI cable
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post #1679 of 1720 Old 12-11-2018, 10:30 PM
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For some reason my AV-7703 will not play ripped DVD-Audio disks in 96/24 5.1 surround sound in an uncompressed .wav file. HEOS reports that it is an incompatible format.

However, my OPPO UDB-205 plays the same files just fine. The OPPO is connected to the AV-7703 via HDMI.

The 7703 manual states it will play .wav files but apparently it won't play them directly from either a USB drive or from a NAS/SMB device. I tried playing these same files using FLAC file format and they won't play either.

Is this because the 7703 can't stream 5.1 channels via ethernet/wireless directly?

Does the OPPO play them because it is connected directly to the AVR via HDMI? Hence, Handshaking and copyright protocols are authenticated through the HDMI handshake?
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post #1680 of 1720 Old 12-12-2018, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch57 View Post
For some reason my AV-7703 will not play ripped DVD-Audio disks in 96/24 5.1 surround sound in an uncompressed .wav file. HEOS reports that it is an incompatible format.

However, my OPPO UDB-205 plays the same files just fine. The OPPO is connected to the AV-7703 via HDMI.

The 7703 manual states it will play .wav files but apparently it won't play them directly from either a USB drive or from a NAS/SMB device. I tried playing these same files using FLAC file format and they won't play either.

Is this because the 7703 can't stream 5.1 channels via ethernet/wireless directly?

Does the OPPO play them because it is connected directly to the AVR via HDMI? Hence, Handshaking and copyright protocols are authenticated through the HDMI handshake?
Correct. Streaming and USB are 2CH only.
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