Yamaha CX-A5200 AVENTAGE 11.2-Channel AV Preamplifier with MusicCast - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 980 Old 10-20-2016, 11:45 AM
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[QUOTE=TonyPAV;47511169]Pretty much agree. Although 9.2.4 would be my wish (as a minimum spec).

YAMAHA if you're listening, at the very least, please implement 9.2.4 on the next design of the CX-A5--- preamp 🙏🙏🙏
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post #32 of 980 Old 10-20-2016, 04:39 PM
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9.2.6 will be a differentiator moving forward (under $6k). The questions are going to be who will do it first and when, not if IMHO.

Personally, I will be happy with 7.1.6… but what will meet everyone's wants/needs is what matters most.

I do like the idea of an un-EQ'd TT output!
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post #33 of 980 Old 10-20-2016, 04:40 PM
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What are the other 2 bed channels for?

Yamaha has never supported wides. I don't see them starting now when the entire industry is abandoning them.
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post #34 of 980 Old 10-20-2016, 04:55 PM
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Honestly, I think the 5100 as-is is perfect. Or at least, darn near perfect.

There really are not all-new hot features or standards to implement in a new pre/pro. What else is there other than more channels for more possibilities?

Wides would be fantastic. Especially now when the other guys are dumping it on their current midrange products. Yamaha would win big if they added true wide support. Even if only for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. I'd like better support than just that but if that's all they did, even that would be pretty sweet and something nobody else has.
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post #35 of 980 Old 10-20-2016, 06:29 PM
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Built in Darbee would be nice! With settings unique for each HDMI port.

As both a CX-A5100 owner, and a DarbeeVision DVP5000S Video Processor owner, I think that would be a nice feature! No Other Pre-amp has that feature (yet!)

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post #36 of 980 Old 10-20-2016, 06:45 PM
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Call it Wides, Front Surround or whatever YAMAHA wants to name it. There's a market for it and would fit a empty spot between the fronts and surrounds.
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post #37 of 980 Old 10-20-2016, 07:38 PM
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Yamaha should dump YPAO and license Dirac.......
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post #38 of 980 Old 10-21-2016, 11:29 PM
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Well let's be realistic for a second.
If Yamaha adds things (extra channels / sub outputs etc) then they need to remove things OR increase prices.
Increasing prices of course, results in fewer sales... so we're probably not going to see that.

Don't expect to see a return to analogue inputs - the world is moving on.
Front wides? Nope.

The real area for sales growth would be in an increase of Zones for custom integrators... a 4 Zone pre-amplifier could be a winner. But with the advent of MusicCast and products like the WX-A50 available now, I doubt it will happen.


Increased numbers of Setting Patterns, yup.
More options for scenes, yes.
Implementation of the RXA3060's EQ capabilities, sure.
The latest and greatest DAC's, yes.
802.11 A/B/G/N/AC networking, yup.
Bluetooth version 5.0... if it's good to go, sure.
HD BaseT version 2.0... maybe.
Revised GUI... maybe.
Better remote... hopefully.

We'll see a removal of some analogue inputs (component in particular) and maybe RS232 in order to achieve this.

My $0.10.
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post #39 of 980 Old 10-23-2016, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurba View Post
The funniest thing is HDCP haven't worked one bit against pirating films. Nobody copies from the HDMI output of a player anyway.
IKR!!!! LOL

Seriously.... Anyone that wants to copy a disc (of any format) can and will. And those that want to duplicate them via racks of 'burners'.... well that's still happening.

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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Fourth bullet point feature was 'quad sub outs'.

I think it's safe to say that there will be at least two subwoofer outputs like there is now.
I agree. SURELY there will be two *independent* sub outs. They just need the current parametric controls aka the 3060.



[quote=cowboyupatl;47611417]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyPAV View Post
Pretty much agree. Although 9.2.4 would be my wish (as a minimum spec).

YAMAHA if you're listening, at the very least, please implement 9.2.4 on the next design of the CX-A5--- preamp 🙏🙏🙏






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Originally Posted by dunnersfella View Post
Well let's be realistic for a second.
If Yamaha adds things (extra channels / sub outputs etc) then they need to remove things OR increase prices.
Increasing prices of course, results in fewer sales... so we're probably not going to see that.

Don't expect to see a return to analogue inputs - the world is moving on.
Front wides? Nope.

The real area for sales growth would be in an increase of Zones for custom integrators... a 4 Zone pre-amplifier could be a winner. But with the advent of MusicCast and products like the WX-A50 available now, I doubt it will happen.


Increased numbers of Setting Patterns, yup.
More options for scenes, yes.
Implementation of the RXA3060's EQ capabilities, sure.
The latest and greatest DAC's, yes.
802.11 A/B/G/N/AC networking, yup.
Bluetooth version 5.0... if it's good to go, sure.
HD BaseT version 2.0... maybe.
Revised GUI... maybe.
Better remote... hopefully.

We'll see a removal of some analogue inputs (component in particular) and maybe RS232 in order to achieve this.

My $0.10.
I really don't think they need to remove much at all to make it at least equal to the 3060.

The EQ abilities from the 3060 ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE INCLUDED!

Regarding the DAC's, Yamaha has generally been keeping up fairly well on that front. As long as they keep one step ahead in that regard, could go a long way towards consumer draw.

Wanna see some stratospheric DAC's? Check out MSB Technologies. We shared a room with them at T.H.E. Show way back in 2000~2001 in Vegas. T.H.E. Show piggybacks with CES and is the high end audiophiles wet dream of a show. Everything from DC (as in D cell battery) powered phono preamps, to hand carved loudspeakers that look like canoes standing on end, that sell for $250,000 a pair.

Back then, the MSB DAC's were $495 to $1895 and switching them in and out of the signal path was tantamount to both a 12 band graphic as well as a 7-band parametric EQ, and doubling your amplifier power all at once being switched into the circuit.

The difference that there $895 DAC made to the soundstage in a 2-channel setup was nothing short of staggering! (And I'm talking about a dedicated two channel setup running somewhere from $30,000 to $60,000 yet the simple addition off a $895 DAC took it to levels that you just wouldn't believe.)

(I think their entry level now is around $7K )

They have DAC's now that cost twich as as much as my first home! LOL

But I digress....

Does it need half a dozen component inputs? Nope, but I'd say 2 should stay just because. I'd also argue for the analog x.1 inputs. Plenty of DVD players to this day that still offer 5.1 (at least) outputs. Take the Panasonic 4K for instance.

AC dual channel wireless would be nice, (although I prefer wired, but do see the need for wireless).

The GUI changed on the 3060 from the earlier versions, which would be nice. Wouldn't expect anything more than that though.

Do we need 33 different sound field programs? Methinks not. Yet I have to say that a select few of those programs are one of my guilty pleasures. And have been ever since they came out decades ago. The trick however is to back everything up to about 60% to 70% off the 'factory' settings.

Do away with Gothic Cathedrals and famous churches from around the globe. That is unless you have the DVD collection of the Pope and intend to enthrall yourself with that exact moment and reverberation of being there. And I'm not a fan of the sports or gaming sound fields, (but that's jist me).

The jazz clubs and live music venues as well as the various theater / movie settings can all be quite pleasurable once they've been adjusted to where they're not so garish. I use those on a daily basis! In fact... Yamaha has said that Dolby Digital and DTS processing stays intact in quite a few of their movie and Music settings.

Which brings up another point.

It's just that when one uses these settings you now have the ability to use the front "effects" and rear "effects" speakers. A long standing Yamaha feature.

Now whether or not one wants to consider those particular speakers as "wide" (as has been mentioned several times) is a different story.

But I can say unequivocally from using Yamaha front effects speakers for a number of decades now that the soundstage in music presentation, CD's and DVD's (multichannel included) as well as the entire surround effect when listening to movie soundtracks is considerably larger, deeper, and more open when using those speakers.

In my current setup I have the front effects as well as rear effects which basically make a 11.2 setup. But I also have 4 more in-ceiling speakers for the height channels. (In a 14'4"cathedral ceiling where the TV and speakers are along the long wall and the ceiling is angled to where the ceiling speakers are aiming directly towards the seated positions, front and rear). I can switch from the corner effect speakers to the ceiling speakers when running Dolby Atmos and/or DTS-X.... to get a better 'height' effect.... or run all of them at the same time if I'm feeling froggy. LOL


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post #40 of 980 Old 10-24-2016, 06:26 PM
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I've not seen it mentioned already, but I'd like the new CX-A5x00 to be able to stream multichannel audio tracks via DLNA. I've never understood why the restriction existed in the 5000 and 5100 since they do multichannel just fine from other sources.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #41 of 980 Old 12-10-2016, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyPAV

Which brings up another point.

It's just that when one uses these settings you now have the ability to use the front "effects" and rear "effects" speakers. A long standing Yamaha feature.

Now whether or not one wants to consider those particular speakers as "wide" (as has been mentioned several times) is a different story.

But I can say unequivocally from using Yamaha front effects speakers for a number of decades now that the soundstage in music presentation, CD's and DVD's (multichannel included) as well as the entire surround effect when listening to movie soundtracks is considerably larger, deeper, and more open when using those speakers.

In my current setup I have the front effects as well as rear effects which basically make a 11.2 setup. But I also have 4 more in-ceiling speakers for the height channels. (In a 14'4"cathedral ceiling where the TV and speakers are along the long wall and the ceiling is angled to where the ceiling speakers are aiming directly towards the seated positions, front and rear). I can switch from the corner effect speakers to the ceiling speakers when running Dolby Atmos and/or DTS-X.... to get a better 'height' effect.... or run all of them at the same time if I'm feeling froggy. LOL
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I hope YAMAHA adds Front Surrounds/Wides/Effects channel (whatever the name) for a true 9.2.4 layout...! Anyone hear when the CX-A5200 comes out or how many supported preout channels?
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post #42 of 980 Old 12-15-2016, 09:51 AM
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Earned a coupon so I ordered 2 YAMAHA MX-A5000 amps in anticipation of running 14 bookshelves, 9.2.4 (included 2 center channels). Anyone know if the CX-A5200 will have 13 channels that include the Front Surround/Wide yet???

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post #43 of 980 Old 12-15-2016, 11:07 AM
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post #44 of 980 Old 01-07-2017, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Nope.
I hope YAMAHA adds the WIDE/FRONT SURROUND/EFFECTS channels and even better if they dropped the subwooofer eq down to 10hz 🙏
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post #45 of 980 Old 01-28-2017, 12:40 PM
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The one thing I would like to see are more of the scenes. I can use more than 4. Hope they just add another row and go to 8
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post #46 of 980 Old 01-28-2017, 05:11 PM
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The one thing I would like to see are more of the scenes. I can use more than 4. Hope they just add another row and go to 8

You already have 12 scenes, but after the first 4 you have to go through the menu. Dedicated buttons would be better, but you should be able to do this with a programmable remote.
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post #47 of 980 Old 01-29-2017, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
Remove all analog video from the unit and replace with a few display port 1.4 ports.

Remove video processing completely. Displays are just as good at this point.
Agreed 100%
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post #48 of 980 Old 01-29-2017, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cowboyupatl View Post
....Anyone hear when the CX-A5200 comes out .....
No earlier than Sept 2017
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post #49 of 980 Old 03-29-2017, 09:09 AM
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https://www.avsforum.com/yamaha-annou...-dolby-vision/


Good sign the new preamp may have want I want it to have.

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post #50 of 980 Old 03-29-2017, 10:36 AM
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9.1(4).6

Dirac

/can't wait:-)
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post #51 of 980 Old 03-29-2017, 10:39 AM
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You'll never get DIRAC built-in on a Yamaha.

You can add it with an outboard processor.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a
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post #52 of 980 Old 04-25-2017, 04:43 PM
 
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The fact that the new Xbox One Scorpio has HDMI 2.1 output makes me hopeful that the Yamaha 5200 might have it too. If it does I'm so down.

Although it likely won't come to consumer grade AVRs till next year, but who knows! It's almost may so the press releases for the 5200 should come out shortly.

Excited to see what it offers.

I still can't believe that Yamaha is the only company offering 3D speaker calibration. I guess most consumers are too oblivious about how 3D sound rendering is done, they ignore that most of the time their AVRs have a totally wrong idea of where their speakers are, so they can just keep getting away with inaccurate 3D sound reproduction.
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post #53 of 980 Old 04-25-2017, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I still can't believe that Yamaha is the only company offering 3D speaker calibration. I guess most consumers are too oblivious about how 3D sound rendering is done, they ignore that most of the time their AVRs have a totally wrong idea of where their speakers are, so they can just keep getting away with inaccurate 3D sound reproduction.
Huh?

Hey, I love my Yamaha as much as the rest of you (maybe more) but even I know that this feature doesn't do anything useful. It only affects CinemaDSP programs.

Inaccurate 3D sound? C'mon. It's about proper speaker placement, good acoustics and a good mix. Always has been.

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post #54 of 980 Old 04-25-2017, 11:08 PM
 
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http://hometheaterreview.com/yamaha-...iver-reviewed/

"Next, I set up my speakers using Yamaha's proprietary YPAO. The version of YPAO included with the RX-A3040 uniquely includes 3D and Angle measurement, which is not an advancement to be taken lightly.

Our Yamaha rep describes these options like this: "The Angle measurement is used to correct for speaker placement that deviates from the commonly used ITU-r placement. Furniture, windows and room layout can prevent many people from placing speakers in the proper location. By knowing where all speakers are placed in relation to the prime listening spot, the DSP processing can image the signal to more closely match ITU suggestions.

Meanwhile, the Height Angle measurement is used, among other things, to give the Atmos decoder more accurate data on how to map the individual sound objects within the listening room.

If the receiver knows that the front right overhead speaker is 45 degrees to the front instead of 60 degrees, the decoder can more accurately place the sound of a mosquito, for instance, in the three-dimensional confines of the room."

--------------
I'm not really interested in convincing anyone on this website that accurate 3D positioning is worth having. I want it from my next Atmos unit, and am willing to shell cash for it.

As I wrote, Yamaha is the only company to compensate for 3D speaker positions (distance + angles = 3D position), which my theater requires. I have 14 foot high ceilings but not allowed to install speakers on them, so I have to place them high up on my walls instead. So I'm not able to place them exactly where the default Dolby layout suggests, i.e. if I want to hear sounds where they should be, I need my AVR to know where my speakers are, precisely. They would be several degrees off otherwise.

It's much cheaper for me to buy a Yamaha AVR than it is to move, in order to get a decent Atmos experience. I'm fairly certain that many who are underwhelmed by Atmos simply have poor rooms or perhaps don't realize that you hear 3D sound all day, every day of your life already, so it should already sound "normal". Or maybe they're just, not as interested in immersion.

I got the Dolby Atmos headphone plugin for windows 10 and it's pretty neat. And I've heard all kinds of awesome Atmos demos, including in videogames (which I make for a living, so forgive me if I actually care to hear where sounds are coming from properly).

The last game I worked on had a 125 million dollar budget, and the lead audio engineer used Yamahas for this express reason: 3D sound field accuracy at a cheap price. I'll take his word for it that it's "the one to get if you want accurate 3D sound rendering". I mean, duh, if an AVR doesn't know your speaker angles it's just guessing, hoping that you have the freedom to place them exactly where Dolby wants you to. Not everyone can build their entire theater around where all their speakers should be. I'd even venture a guess that most people can't, especially for height and maybe even surround channels.

I don't have my side surrounds directly to the sides of my couch either (won't fit), so I need my rear + side speakers to have their angles compensated for as well.

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post #55 of 980 Old 04-26-2017, 10:08 AM
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All that is marketing talk.

Even the Yamaha rep says, "the DSP processing can image the signal to more closely match ITU suggestions."

Yeah...CinemaDSP. That's all well and good but it has no effect on the actual sound mix as presented with regular decoding. Just the CinemaDSP algorithm and that's if you're using it.



What you are talking about is Speaker Remapping and Yamaha nor Dolby Atmos does not do that at home or even the cinema, afaik.

I'm happy for you that your room is sounding better than ever but I think you're being WAY won over by all this marketing jargon and other placebo/pyschoacoustic effects. You simply have a nice layout and have access to very enveloping 3D-sounding surround mixes.

My layout and room is way different from yours but I'll bet I get just as good 3D sound as you do and it isn't because of the angle measurement feature.


But you know.... ignore what I said. What do I know? Enjoy yourself.

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post #56 of 980 Old 04-26-2017, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
The fact that the new Xbox One Scorpio has HDMI 2.1 output makes me hopeful that the Yamaha 5200 might have it too. If it does I'm so down.

Although it likely won't come to consumer grade AVRs till next year, but who knows! It's almost may so the press releases for the 5200 should come out shortly.

Excited to see what it offers.

I still can't believe that Yamaha is the only company offering 3D speaker calibration. I guess most consumers are too oblivious about how 3D sound rendering is done, they ignore that most of the time their AVRs have a totally wrong idea of where their speakers are, so they can just keep getting away with inaccurate 3D sound reproduction.

Simply because it only works with the Yamaha DSP modes .... not Atmos ... not DTS:X.
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post #57 of 980 Old 04-26-2017, 10:57 AM
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Simply because it only works with the Yamaha DSP modes .... not Atmos ... not DTS:X.


Thanks for the TL;DR version.
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post #58 of 980 Old 04-26-2017, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I'm not really interested in convincing anyone on this website that accurate 3D positioning is worth having.
That's okay. We care as much as you do.

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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

As I wrote, Yamaha is the only company to compensate for 3D speaker positions (distance + angles = 3D position), which my theater requires.
Yeah. Just yours.

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so forgive me if I actually care to hear where sounds are coming from properly.
Geez dude. Chill.

We all care.

You must not spend much time in the actual Dolby Atmos thread here at AVS.

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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

The last game I worked on had a 125 million dollar budget, and the lead audio engineer used Yamahas for this express reason: 3D sound field accuracy at a cheap price. I'll take his word for it that it's "the one to get if you want accurate 3D sound rendering".
Heh. Well now you have me convinced!

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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
I don't have my side surrounds directly to the sides of my couch either (won't fit)...
Me either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
....so I need my rear + side speakers to have their angles compensated for as well.
Well... so you think.

This "compensating" is compensated for using: levels, distance/delay like we've been doing forever and NOT Speaker Remapping.


Sorry if I come off snarky but...you're just WAY off on most of this. But I am happy your room sounds awesome now with the help of Yamaha.

Last edited by Scott Simonian; 04-26-2017 at 11:08 AM.
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post #59 of 980 Old 04-26-2017, 03:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Simply because it only works with the Yamaha DSP modes .... not Atmos ... not DTS:X.
I have direct confirmation from Yamaha over email, so please...stop repeating this, it's incorrect.

"I can confirm the YPAO 3D works with Dolby Atmos. YPAO 3D uses and redirects the metadata to height/overhead speakers

Cheers

Stéphane"


I don't know where you get your information from, but I got it directly from the source.

Every time YPAO 3D comes up, comeone on AVS (likely you) says "it doesn't work with Atmos even though angle measurements make no sense without Atmos and Yamaha designed it specifically for that purpose".

A little common sense, please. It's also written in that review I posted above. Guess which sources I would trust. Over the years, I've become very skeptical of accepting AVS advice without independent corroboration. Logically, speaker angle measurements have no purpose outside of Atmos / DTS:X. For channel-based audio, you don't have 3D positioning metadata to exploit in order to re-render the audio to actual speaker positions. Speaker distances are logical for channel-based audio, simple change the phase so wavefronts line up at the MLP.

Last edited by RLBURNSIDE; 04-26-2017 at 03:33 PM.
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post #60 of 980 Old 04-26-2017, 03:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Thanks for the TL;DR version.
Except he's 100% wrong. So there's that. Be careful about accepting AVS advice as being accurate, because it often isn't. Like I said, believe what you want, no problem.
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