Yamaha CX-A5200 AVENTAGE 11.2-Channel AV Preamplifier with MusicCast - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 853 Old 02-16-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
I agree that for shorter runs with good quality RCA cables (shielding, connectors and method to connect wire to connectors- fusing or soldering which is IMO the weak link), XLRs will not sound better on most equipment as the balanced connection is being created (I.e. not fully balanced) and can at best equal single ended. Because of the pro options, however, one can get very good quality XLRs (not esoteric) in the US at more reasonable prices. If you believe your equipment puts the proper effort in creating the balanced connection (Bryston, Parasound Halo, ATI, etc), I think XLR option is a good one with decent cables. A $10 cable may sound great new, but what about a few years down the road when the connection between the wires and connectors corrodes? I live in Florida so may be less of a factor in dry climates.


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Well, I agree with the author of this article:

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/blog/xl...-a-difference/

"In equipment where you have both options, it’s wise to chose XLR over RCA."

I will say that my main system where I use XLR cables from my 5200 to my Outlaw amps I hear zero noise coming from my speakers and I'm happy.

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post #632 of 853 Old 02-16-2019, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wildbill136 View Post
Emotiva sells a very nice XLR cable for a great price.
Nice, but only 5 meter length still available. Way longer than I need. I am however going to order an XBL-1x2 from them since I'm going to tri-amp my center channel speaker, and didn't really want to use a cheesy XLR splitter from Amazon. Monoprice has some new Monolith XLR cables that look good, and I have a credit with them anyway.

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post #633 of 853 Old 02-17-2019, 10:51 AM
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hey guys, im in the market for a new avr and im really liking the yamaha's. just wanting to know how different is the SQ on the 5200 compared to the 3080 or even the 2080?

also im running klipsch RP-160m speakers, and a couple years ago klipsch and Yamaha was said to not be a good combination due to it being bright. is this still a thing?

It will be 98% for movies, 1% youtube, 1% Music.

the only other avr i would be looking at would be the Denon X3500, but i really want to give Yamaha a crack.

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post #634 of 853 Old 02-17-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Karami View Post
hey guys, im in the market for a new avr and im really liking the yamaha's. just wanting to know how different is the SQ on the 5200 compared to the 3080 or even the 2080?

also im running klipsch RP-160m speakers, and a couple years ago klipsch and Yamaha was said to not be a good combination due to it being bright. is this still a thing?

It will be 98% for movies, 1% youtube, 1% Music.

the only other avr i would be looking at would be the Denon X3500, but i really want to give Yamaha a crack.
The CX is a Pre-Pro not a receiver like the other models you mention, so no built in amps. With slightly better components than the 2080 and 3080, in theory it should sound a bit better. In real world A-B comparisons however, it's probably pretty close.

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post #635 of 853 Old 02-17-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
The CX is a Pre-Pro not a receiver like the other models you mention, so no built in amps. With slightly better components than the 2080 and 3080, in theory it should sound a bit better. In real world A-B comparisons however, it's probably pretty close.
Yes I know the 5200 is a pre pro. I have an old school denon 3808. It has good amps so I was thinking if it was a good deal better I'd just use the amp in the denon until I can get a dedicated power amp

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post #636 of 853 Old 02-17-2019, 01:10 PM
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Yes I know the 5200 is a pre pro. I have an old school denon 3808. It has good amps so I was thinking if it was a good deal better I'd just use the amp in the denon until I can get a dedicated power amp
I just checked and the 3808 does have multi channel inputs, however that will only give you up to 7 channels of amplification. If you only plan of running a 7 channel system that will work.

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post #637 of 853 Old 02-17-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
I just checked and the 3808 does have multi channel inputs, however that will only give you up to 7 channels of amplification. If you only plan of running a 7 channel system that will work.
Yes. Only 7 channels for now. I won't be doing anything over 7 for at least another year. By then I should have enough to go get my power amp.
So you would recommend the 5200 over the 3080?
Regardless on weather I get a pre pro or avr I'll be getting a separate 3 channel power amp for the front.

DO you know of any good reviews for the 5200? Or even ones that compare the 5200 to the 3080?
Here in Australia the 3080 is $3000 and the 5200 is $3800. Every now and again they have a sale that you trade in your old avr and you get $500 off the new Yamaha.

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post #638 of 853 Old 02-17-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Karami View Post
Yes. Only 7 channels for now. I won't be doing anything over 7 for at least another year. By then I should have enough to go get my power amp.
So you would recommend the 5200 over the 3080?
Regardless on weather I get a pre pro or avr I'll be getting a separate 3 channel power amp for the front.

DO you know of any good reviews for the 5200? Or even ones that compare the 5200 to the 3080?
Here in Australia the 3080 is $3000 and the 5200 is $3800. Every now and again they have a sale that you trade in your old avr and you get $500 off the new Yamaha.
If you go with the 3080 there are only 9 channels of amplification built into it, but it has 11 channel processing like the 5200. There are a few people on the forum with both, and although the general opinion is that the 5200 sounds better I don't think anyone has done a direct comparison in the same room. If you plan on using separate power amps anyway, I would recommend the 5200 as long as it's in your budget. I find that I never have remorse when I buy the top model of anything. If I buy a lower model, I always wonder if I'm missing something and regret the purchase to some degree. But, that's just me.
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post #639 of 853 Old 02-17-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
If you go with the 3080 there are only 9 channels of amplification built into it, but it has 11 channel processing like the 5200. There are a few people on the forum with both, and although the general opinion is that the 5200 sounds better I don't think anyone has done a direct comparison in the same room. If you plan on using separate power amps anyway, I would recommend the 5200 as long as it's in your budget. I find that I never have remorse when I buy the top model of anything. If I buy a lower model, I always wonder if I'm missing something and regret the purchase to some degree. But, that's just me.
Rofl. That's exactly how I feel. I was leaning towards the 2080. But thought 400 extra will give my the 3080. Then I'm thinking what about the 5200 for another 800. I think I will be happy with the 3080 but just in the back of my mind I'm thinking "what if". If the 3080 has the exact same features as the 5200 Then I think I'll grab that. But if the 5200 has better bass management or more crossover settings or a better peq then I'll happily pay the extra.

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post #640 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 09:35 AM
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Rofl. That's exactly how I feel. I was leaning towards the 2080. But thought 400 extra will give my the 3080. Then I'm thinking what about the 5200 for another 800. I think I will be happy with the 3080 but just in the back of my mind I'm thinking "what if". If the 3080 has the exact same features as the 5200 Then I think I'll grab that. But if the 5200 has better bass management or more crossover settings or a better peq then I'll happily pay the extra.
There really isn't a huge difference from what I can tell on paper. A knowledgeable Yamaha rep might know more accurately the exact differences. The 5200 has the better ESS 9026 Pro DAC's on all 11 channels, where the 3080 has the ESS Pro's on the 7 main channels and a lower model ESS 9007S DAC on the presence channels.. The 5200 has 10 more DSP modes. The 5200 has XLR and RCA outputs for all 11.2 channels where the 3080 is RCA only. The power supply transformer on the 5200 looks to be upgraded. (Possibly toroidial?) The weight of the 3080 with 9 channels of built in amplification is only 6.4 lbs more than the 5200. My RX-Z11 with 11 channels of built in amplification weighs 75 lbs for reference.
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post #641 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 10:25 AM
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Actually, the 3080 does have XLR outputs for the front L&R channels. I happen to use them on my 3080 to drive two Outlaw Audio 2200s for my front two channels.

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post #642 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 10:31 AM
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Actually, the 3080 does have XLR outputs for the front L&R channels. I happen to use them on my 3080 to drive two Outlaw Audio 2200s for my front two channels.
Right. I was thinking those were inputs for some reason. Still-I wonder what has changed on these newer model receivers in the last few years that has made them much lighter in weight than receiver models from 5-10+ years ago?

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post #643 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 10:45 AM
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Right. I was thinking those were inputs for some reason. Still-I wonder what has changed on these newer model receivers in the last few years that has made them much lighter in weight than receiver models from 5-10+ years ago?
I can't be certain, but the Z11 (I still have two of them) did have 11 channels vs. just 9, though the 4 presence channels were only rated at 50 watts. Hardly seems enough to make up the difference. The Z11 did start life with a $5500 MSRP...maybe they felt that they had to make it heavy enough to justify the price.
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There really isn't a huge difference from what I can tell on paper. A knowledgeable Yamaha rep might know more accurately the exact differences. The 5200 has the better ESS 9026 Pro DAC's on all 11 channels, where the 3080 has the ESS Pro's on the 7 main channels and a lower model ESS 9007S DAC on the presence channels.. The 5200 has 10 more DSP modes. The 5200 has XLR and RCA outputs for all 11.2 channels where the 3080 is RCA only. The power supply transformer on the 5200 looks to be upgraded. (Possibly toroidial?) The weight of the 3080 with 9 channels of built in amplification is only 6.4 lbs more than the 5200. My RX-Z11 with 11 channels of built in amplification weighs 75 lbs for reference.
Awesome Steven, thank you for your time and for pointing all that out for me. I'll try and head into my local shop that sells Yamaha, might even be able to take my speakers in and have a listen

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post #645 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 11:03 AM
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I can't be certain, but the Z11 (I still have two of them) did have 11 channels vs. just 9, though the 4 presence channels were only rated at 50 watts. Hardly seems enough to make up the difference. The Z11 did start life with a $5500 MSRP...maybe they felt that they had to make it heavy enough to justify the price.
I'm sure circuit integration and less discrete components has reduced weight some, but I'll bet the amps in older models were more robust and similar to what separate power amps have.
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post #646 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 11:14 AM
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I'm sure circuit integration and less discrete components has reduced weight some, but I'll bet the amps in older models were more robust and similar to what separate power amps have.
Could be. I never actually opened one up to take a close look. Mine are in my surplus area now and I don't like picking them up so they have just stayed there. One of these days I'm going to have to do something with them.
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Could be. I never actually opened one up to take a close look. Mine are in my surplus area now and I don't like picking them up so they have just stayed there. One of these days I'm going to have to do something with them.
At my age picking up my Z11 would be a test of balance and strength. That's why it's staying put on the bottom stationary shelf in my equipment stack and I'm re-purposing it for power amp duty with my incoming 5200. (Using 6 of the main on-board 140 watt channels for the back surrounds, and 4 presence speakers)
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post #648 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 11:27 AM
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At my age picking up my Z11 would be a test of balance and strength. That's why it's staying put on the bottom stationary shelf in my equipment stack and I'm re-purposing it for power amp duty with my incoming 5200. (Using 6 of the main on-board 140 watt channels for the back surrounds, and 4 presence speakers)
I certainly get that (I turn 75 this week)! My two Outlaw power amps are definitely in that category. The 7900 weighs in at almost 150 lbs and the 7700 at 95 lbs. I don't want to move either of them. I'd need to get my sons and grandsons to do it for me!
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post #649 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 12:35 PM
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Here's pictures of the interiors on the MX-A5200, RX-A3080, and older RX-Z11&RX-Z9 models. Also the CX-A5200 since that's what this thread is about even though it has no internal amplification.
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post #650 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
Here's pictures of the interiors on the MX-A5200, RX-A3080, and older RX-Z11&RX-Z9 models. Also the CX-A5200 since that's what this thread is about even though it has no internal amplification.
Thanks for the pictures, but other than the CX-A5200 looks kinda empty inside, it's hard to tell what makes the Z11 so heavy. I do find it interesting that the MX-A5200 is quite a bit lighter than the Z11 (58.2 lbs. vs. 75 lbs.) So it seems something has changed in the past 10 or so years.

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2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #651 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
Thanks for the pictures, but other than the CX-A5200 looks kinda empty inside, it's hard to tell what makes the Z11 so heavy. I do find it interesting that the MX-A5200 is quite a bit lighter than the Z11 (58.2 lbs. vs. 75 lbs.) So it seems something has changed in the past 10 or so years.
To me other than the Toroidial transformer on the MX-A5200, the amp component layout looks quite similar to the Z11. Here's another picture of the Z11 that might shed some light on the weight difference.
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JVC X750R Projector,Yamaha CX-A5200 Pre-Pro, Yamaha RX-Z11 Receiver, (Amps Only) Yamaha MX-D1 Power Amps x 2, Yamaha RX-Z1 (L&R Surround Channel Amp), Oppo BDP-103D BR, Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD, Pioneer Elite CLD-99 LD, Definitive Tech BP7000SC Mains, CLR3000 Center, BPVX Surround Sides&Backs, BPX F&R Presence, Martin Logan Abyss Front L&R Subs/Dynamo L&R Rear Surround Channel Subs, Infinity SSW-210 Center Channel Sub.
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post #652 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
To me other than the Toroidial transformer on the MX-A5200, the amp component layout looks quite similar to the Z11. Here's another picture of the Z11 that might shed some light on the weight difference.
Perhaps toroidal transformers don't contain as much iron as the standard types. This article seems to make that claim:

https://www.amgistoroids.com/Toroidal_technology

So maybe that helps make up the weight difference?

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #653 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
Perhaps toroidal transformers don't contain as much iron as the standard types. This article seems to make that claim:

https://www.amgistoroids.com/Toroidal_technology

So maybe that helps make up the weight difference?
Perhaps. That makes sense. And I see I was spelling it incorrectly as well!

JVC X750R Projector,Yamaha CX-A5200 Pre-Pro, Yamaha RX-Z11 Receiver, (Amps Only) Yamaha MX-D1 Power Amps x 2, Yamaha RX-Z1 (L&R Surround Channel Amp), Oppo BDP-103D BR, Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD, Pioneer Elite CLD-99 LD, Definitive Tech BP7000SC Mains, CLR3000 Center, BPVX Surround Sides&Backs, BPX F&R Presence, Martin Logan Abyss Front L&R Subs/Dynamo L&R Rear Surround Channel Subs, Infinity SSW-210 Center Channel Sub.
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post #654 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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i have the service manuals for the Z11 and the MX-A5000
the schematics for the power stages are almost identical! (even for the 4 "small" channels of the Z11, just lower rail voltage)

a toroidal transformer is smaller and lighter and maybe operates with a little bit better efficiency (a typical EI transformer is not bad though as well), but none of this delivers a better sound quality...
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post #655 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
i have the service manuals for the Z11 and the MX-A5000
the schematics for the power stages are almost identical! (even for the 4 "small" channels of the Z11, just lower rail voltage)

a toroidal transformer is smaller and lighter and maybe operates with a little bit better efficiency (a typical EI transformer is not bad though as well), but none of this delivers a better sound quality...
Well, you may have missed it...but I wasn't discussing sound quality, just weight. My Z11's are sufficiently heavy that I don't want to move them to get rid of them.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #656 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
i have the service manuals for the Z11 and the MX-A5000
the schematics for the power stages are almost identical! (even for the 4 "small" channels of the Z11, just lower rail voltage)

a toroidal transformer is smaller and lighter and maybe operates with a little bit better efficiency (a typical EI transformer is not bad though as well), but none of this delivers a better sound quality...

This is what I thought looking at the guts of both, and exactly what I was hoping for! Trying to keep my costs down, plus selling/shipping a 10 year old 75 lb receiver usually results in disaster. So re-purposing my Z11 for amp duty (using only 6 of it's 140 watt amp channels) is very close to using an MX5000/5200 it seems.

How are the amps in the Z11 split between all channels? Trying to keep even loads between the left and right rails, should I use the mains, surround, and surround back amps?

JVC X750R Projector,Yamaha CX-A5200 Pre-Pro, Yamaha RX-Z11 Receiver, (Amps Only) Yamaha MX-D1 Power Amps x 2, Yamaha RX-Z1 (L&R Surround Channel Amp), Oppo BDP-103D BR, Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD, Pioneer Elite CLD-99 LD, Definitive Tech BP7000SC Mains, CLR3000 Center, BPVX Surround Sides&Backs, BPX F&R Presence, Martin Logan Abyss Front L&R Subs/Dynamo L&R Rear Surround Channel Subs, Infinity SSW-210 Center Channel Sub.

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post #657 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 04:47 PM
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I am really enjoying my 5200. It is nice to see some action on this thread. This unit really does not get the respect it deserves here at avs .
There are soooo many Marantz/denon people here ( i was one of them ) that would not even consider yamaha because of the supposedly inferior room correction system. If you have a well treated room imo ypao has the advantage over audyssey. If your room is untreated a marantz might be a better fit. I just sold a marantz 8802a which was a really nice unit. However i like the 5200 better. I had an anthem 720 for just a short time and i still dont understand all the love for it. I could not wait to sell it ( for a pretty big loss ) I just bought my son a refurbished yamaha 3070 for his theater that replaced an older marantz 7009. T he sound difference was almost night and day.

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post #658 of 853 Old 02-18-2019, 04:50 PM
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I am really enjoying my 5200. It is nice to see some action on this thread. This unit really does not get the respect it deserves here at avs .
There are soooo many Marantz/denon people here ( i was one of them ) that would not even consider yamaha because of the supposedly inferior room correction system. If you have a well treated room imo ypao has the advantage over audyssey. If your room is untreated a marantz might be a better fit. I just sold a marantz 8802a which was a really nice unit. However i like the 5200 better. I had an anthem 720 for just a short time and i still dont understand all the love for it. I could not wait to sell it ( for a pretty big loss ) I just bought my son a refurbished yamaha 3070 for his theater that replaced an older marantz 7009. T he sound difference was almost night and day.
Maybe the Marantz/Denon push by most of the vendors is due to a larger profit margin? Unfortunately, that is all too often the case with anything in sales.

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post #659 of 853 Old 02-19-2019, 06:28 PM
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Both the balanced and unbalanced outputs are live at the same time, correct?

JVC X750R Projector,Yamaha CX-A5200 Pre-Pro, Yamaha RX-Z11 Receiver, (Amps Only) Yamaha MX-D1 Power Amps x 2, Yamaha RX-Z1 (L&R Surround Channel Amp), Oppo BDP-103D BR, Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD, Pioneer Elite CLD-99 LD, Definitive Tech BP7000SC Mains, CLR3000 Center, BPVX Surround Sides&Backs, BPX F&R Presence, Martin Logan Abyss Front L&R Subs/Dynamo L&R Rear Surround Channel Subs, Infinity SSW-210 Center Channel Sub.
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post #660 of 853 Old 02-20-2019, 05:48 AM
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Both the balanced and unbalanced outputs are live at the same time, correct?
Yes

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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