Latest Auro 3D Upgrade for Denon + Marantz AVRs and Pre-Pro Announced - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Latest Auro 3D Upgrade for Denon + Marantz AVRs and Pre-Pro Announced

"On January 5, 2017 owners of Denon AVR-X6300H AVRs, Denon AVR-X4300H AVRs, Marantz SR7011 AVRs, and Marantz AV7703 pre-pros will have the option of upgrading their equipment to support the Auro-3D immersive audio format for $199." - read more by clicking here: https://www.avsforum.com/latest-auro-...pro-announced/

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post #2 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 10:29 AM
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And all two of the people waiting for this cheered.
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post #3 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 11:13 AM
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$200 is a big entry fee for something with little content. Where is the value?
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post #4 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
$200 is a big entry fee for something with little content. Where is the value?
At the moment, aside from it potentially being a better upmixer than Dolby Surround ( I can't speak to that) it's hard to see where the value is, especially given the need for a different speaker layout. However, I will certainly ask about what the value proposition is going forward when I talk to Auro at CES 2017.

Last edited by imagic; 12-17-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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post #5 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 12:30 PM
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Auro = DOA
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post #6 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 12:59 PM
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Yes, I do believe Auro is dead or will be dead soon. It just never got sufficient traction imo...
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post #7 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 01:36 PM
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The last time I paid Marantz for an upgrade (Airplay on the NA7004) it was free a few months later and on every product after.
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post #8 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
"On January 5, 2017 owners of Denon AVR-X6300H AVRs, Denon AVR-X4300H AVRs, Marantz SR7011 AVRs, and Marantz AV7703 pre-pros will have the option of upgrading their equipment to support the Auro-3D immersive audio format for $199." - read more by clicking here: https://www.avsforum.com/latest-auro-...pro-announced/
"...deciding to go with Auro-3D is not a simple decision."

A $200 upgrade for a system with practically no available source material ?

I'd say the decision NOT to get it is pretty simple.
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post #9 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 03:12 PM
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Actually Mark, it is a simple decision for me...not interested. Unless their engineers can make it more compatible with existing in home setups equipped with Dolby Atmos and/or DTS:X overhead speaker layouts, not to mention an apparent lack of interest thus far from the studios, Auro 3D faces a tougher up hill battle than Beta and HD DVD combined.
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post #10 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 04:42 PM
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"Given that implementing it requires both a novel speaker layout (Auro-3D layouts are NOT compatible with Atmos) and a paid upgrade, deciding to go with Auro-3D is not a simple decision."

I actually feel that this is exactly why it IS an easy decision. either this format completely blows away the competition to a point that'd I'd never be able to enjoy another movie without it, or it doesn't stand a chance of being implemented in my home.

whether or not i held out for a receiver that was DTS:X compatible as well as atmos was a tough choice, as i wasn't really sure either was going to be adequate in a 5.1.2 format(my personal opinion now is that it is NOT, and i'm glad i didn't wait a year and spend a few hundred more just to come to the same conclusion).

for me, i'm pretty convinced that 7.1.4 is the sweet spot for any reasonable theater in my near future. if for some reason aura 3D became a more desirable option, it would HAVE to be one of the other, not both. i am not a person that believe in doing two things half-way, that just ends up with mediocre results. and i'm just never going to have the resources to do BOTH layouts without some significant compromises

it may have been a challenging choice two years ago, but today it feels about as easy as choosing bluray over hd-dvd... i don't really care which one is "better" anymore
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post #11 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocedeg View Post
"...deciding to go with Auro-3D is not a simple decision."

A $200 upgrade for a system with practically no available source material ?

I'd say the decision NOT to get it is pretty simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckbacker View Post
Actually Mark, it is a simple decision for me...not interested. Unless their engineers can make it more compatible with existing in home setups equipped with Dolby Atmos and/or DTS:X overhead speaker layouts, not to mention an apparent lack of interest thus far from the studios, Auro 3D faces a tougher up hill battle than Beta and HD DVD combined.
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
"Given that implementing it requires both a novel speaker layout (Auro-3D layouts are NOT compatible with Atmos) and a paid upgrade, deciding to go with Auro-3D is not a simple decision."

I actually feel that this is exactly why it IS an easy decision. either this format completely blows away the competition to a point that'd I'd never be able to enjoy another movie without it, or it doesn't stand a chance of being implemented in my home.
Just using diplomatic language to gauge sentiment, folks.
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post #12 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 05:51 PM
 
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Scroll down a bit for the complete list of Movies and Music titles encoded with Auro-3D: http://www.auro-3d.com/consumer/
- Movies: 116 titles and more coming up.
- Music: 39 titles and more releases coming ...

It's a list from Europe, not from America, and that European Auro-3D list is way more extensive than the American DTS:X list.
For people from Europe, and people from all around the globe who love music in multichannel audio, using Auro-3D and Auro-Matic 2D and 3D is a generous offer to them for only $199

I know some folks from America who export Auro-3D Blu-ray movie and music titles.

So, for many Americans Auro-3D is not their bag, and they have many reasons to exercise their freedom by getting it or not.
On the other hand there are others who are happy, very happy that Denon/Marantz offers it. $199 is very reasonable to them.
I'd rather see Denon/Marantz offering it than not. Yamaha doesn't offer it; that's too bad because Yamaha is "Natural Sound".

That's just my opinion.

Last edited by NorthSky; 12-18-2016 at 05:24 PM. Reason: typo
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post #13 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Scroll down a bit for the complete list of Movies and Music titles encoded with Auro-3D: http://www.auro-3d.com/consumer/
- Movies: 116 titles and more coming up.
- Music: 39 title and more releases coming ...

It's a list from Europe, not from America, and that European Auro-3D list is way more extensive than the American DTS:X list.
For people from Europe, and people from all around the globe who love music in multichannel audio, using Auro-3D and Auro-Matic 2D and 3D is a generous offer to them for only $199

I know some folks from America who export Auro-3D Blu-ray movie and music titles.

So, for many Americans Auro-3D is not their bag, and they have many reasons to exercise their freedom by getting it or not.
On the other hand there are others who are happy, very happy that Denon/Marantz offers it. $199 is very reasonable to them.
I'd rather see Denon/Marantz offering it than not. Yamaha doesn't offer it; that's too bad because Yamaha is "Natural Sound".

That's just my opinion.
Aren't all those movies in Auro-3D for cinema? The music is on Blu-ray, yes.

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post #14 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 07:19 PM
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I use the Auro-matic upmixer for 2-channel music, because DSU and Neural:X are absolute crap for that (IMHO). I would actually prefer Neo:X, or even Pro-Logic IIz, but guess what? They're not available on most AVRs that support the newer immersive audio formats.
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post #15 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
for me, i'm pretty convinced that 7.1.4 is the sweet spot for any reasonable theater in my near future.

Actually, the addition of wides makes a dramatic difference when A/B tested 7.1 versus 9.1 in my system.
Multiple subs (Harmon Research found that four was optimal) also make a big difference for even ULF response.
In my theater (.6) Rear Ht, Top Middle, Front Ht fits my room better than (.4) Top rear overhead and Top front overhead

I'd say that 9.4.6 is the sweet spot for my system
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post #16 of 61 Old 12-17-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
(Auro-3D layouts are NOT compatible with Atmos)/[/url]
Except for the VOG speaker, which seems to be an Auro-only thing, is that the case?

Isn't traditional front/rear height speakers a supported Atmos layout? I know it was when first Atmos came out, but haven't paid much attention since.

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post #17 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
And all two of the people waiting for this cheered.
Count me in as one of the two people!

I've heard a lot of good reviews of the Auto Surround Upmixer for music. However, I'll not buy this upgrade until I've gotten Atmos and DTS:X working first with my AVR: I'm still on a 7.1 speaker setup. Then I'll investigate the American/import market for Auro3D software.
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post #18 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Except for the VOG speaker, which seems to be an Auro-only thing, is that the case?

Isn't traditional front/rear height speakers a supported Atmos layout? I know it was when first Atmos came out, but haven't paid much attention since.
There's a gray area where the two can overlap but arguably it's not optimal. But yeah, you can make it work if you are willing to ignore Dolby's recommendations.

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post #19 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drummernrg View Post
Count me in as one of the two people!

I've heard a lot of good reviews of the Auto Surround Upmixer for music. However, I'll not buy this upgrade until I've gotten Atmos and DTS:X working first with my AVR: I'm still on a 7.1 speaker setup. Then I'll investigate the American/import market for Auro3D software.
It's upmixing music that keeps me at all interested in Auro-3D's capabilities.

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post #20 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 01:03 PM
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There's a gray area where the two can overlap but arguably it's not optimal. But yeah, you can make it work if you are willing to ignore Dolby's recommendations.
Actually it's the other way around: the one layout that supports all 3 formats is Front Height and Rear Height, which is ok with both Atmos and DTS:X. It is Auro that is compromised, as it should have Surround Height. But it works with Rear Height.

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post #21 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Aren't all those movies in Auro-3D for cinema? The music is on Blu-ray, yes.
You are correct Mark, thx; there are only few movie titles from that list that are available on Blu-ray.

And if Sony delivers on its word, that'll be the day: http://www.auro-3d.com/press/2016/09...-audio-format/

So, all in all, as of today, Auro-Matic 2D & 3D for Music is the best of the best immersive music up-mixers.
Is it worth $199 that Denon/Marantz is asking? According to multichannel music lovers, you betcha!

* I tried to find a list of Auro-3D encoded Blu-ray movies, sorry for the one I posted as it is mainly for the theatrical movie releases, but I couldn't find their complete BR movie list. Perhaps other members here are more skilled than I in googling for such a list?

Happy Holiday season,
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post #22 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually it's the other way around: the one layout that supports all 3 formats is Front Height and Rear Height, which is ok with both Atmos and DTS:X. It is Auro that is compromised, as it should have Surround Height. But it works with Rear Height.
Gotcha, I ain't nitpicking.
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post #23 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post

* I tried to find a list of Auro-3D encoded Blu-ray movies, sorry for the one I posted as it is mainly for the theatrical movie releases, but I couldn't find their complete BR movie list. Perhaps other members here are more skilled than I in googling for such a list?

Happy Holiday season,
Here you go:


Red Tails:
https://www.amazon.de/Red-Tails-Blu-...dp/B00B93N75W/

Bowling Balls:
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/bowling-bal...0000040520739/

Pixels:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pixels-Blu-...pixels+blu+ray

Texas Chainsaw Massacre UHD:
https://www.amazon.de/Chainsaw-Massa...dp/B01DXIP53C/


Cold War 2:
https://www.hmv.com.hk/goods/1016492.html

Ghostbusters UHD:

https://www.amazon.de/Ghostbusters-4...A3JWKAKR8XB7XF

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 8xJBL 12" BOSS - 4xJBL 12" w/SLAPS M12" VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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post #24 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Scroll down a bit for the complete list of Movies and Music titles encoded with Auro-3D: http://www.auro-3d.com/consumer/
- Movies: 116 titles and more coming up.
- Music: 39 title and more releases coming ...

It's a list from Europe, not from America, and that European Auro-3D list is way more extensive than the American DTS:X list.
For people from Europe, and people from all around the globe who love music in multichannel audio, using Auro-3D and Auro-Matic 2D and 3D is a generous offer to them for only $199

I know some folks from America who export Auro-3D Blu-ray movie and music titles.

So, for many Americans Auro-3D is not their bag, and they have many reasons to exercise their freedom by getting it or not.
On the other hand there are others who are happy, very happy that Denon/Marantz offers it. $199 is very reasonable to them.
I'd rather see Denon/Marantz offering it than not. Yamaha doesn't offer it; that's too bad because Yamaha is "Natural Sound".

That's just my opinion.
for me the sticking point is the incompatibility of the speaker layout and EVERY OTHER FORMAT... DTS:X and atmos are different, but at least with either one, the other is 'kinda close'.
edit: i guess somebody else who knows more than me knows of a layout to make all three 'work'. i'm just trying to follow dolby's recommendations and what works with my room, and right now that means in-ceiling speakers, so it doesn't sound like the compromise would work for me anyway

i agree that options are nice, and it's good that it's being offered, for now. but i do also believe that in this case, competition is not a good thing. format wars are seldom a good thing. so i do hope that a 'winner' is chosen and supported by all

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Last edited by fierce_gt; 12-18-2016 at 04:33 PM.
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post #25 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
Actually, the addition of wides makes a dramatic difference when A/B tested 7.1 versus 9.1 in my system.
Multiple subs (Harmon Research found that four was optimal) also make a big difference for even ULF response.
In my theater (.6) Rear Ht, Top Middle, Front Ht fits my room better than (.4) Top rear overhead and Top front overhead

I'd say that 9.4.6 is the sweet spot for my system
totally could be, but we live in different houses

my biggest thing, is that right now i absolutely notice a 'hole' when i turn off the back surround speakers in order to use atmos. of course this is made much worse by the fact my 'surround' speakers are then on the side walls, and not actually behind me because it's arranged for a 7.1 layout. i wish there was a way i could tell my receiver to use the back surround channels for 5.1.2 instead of the side surround channels.

with 7.1.4 i have the 'perfect' layout for 7.1 sources, so feel confident in using all currently popular formats without compromise to any of them. and 4 overhead channels seems necessary to get the 'sweeping' effect overhead. imo, there should be at least one extra 'row' of speakers overhead than rows of seats. everybody should have ceiling speakers in front and behind them, not directly over top. but if you don't have more than one row, i have not 'heard' the point of more than 4.

i know the 'proven' convention is that more subs is better, but i honestly don't think anybody is going to convince me that I need more than one. when everything else in my life is taken care of, then i'll waste thousands of dollars on extra subs. i guess i'm living in that ignorance is bliss phase, but i find it quite odd how much guys will spend on multiple subs, and then have to spend even more trying to control(which i think is a fancy way of saying make quieter) all that bass from destroying their soundstage (and in some cases the room itself, haha)

reminds me of the guys that drop a ton of money into their engines, axles, and tires, because every time they upgrade one part, it overpowers the next and they never end up going any faster because they can't figure out how to control all the power they paid for. if it were as simple as doubling the cost, adding a second sub and getting a huge improvement that'd be one thing. but when we're talking about bass traps, eq's, and having to go the whole 9 yards, it ends up be a huge investment for something i honestly don't think i'd notice.

ok, i kind of went off on a rant there, maybe you should think of my decision for 7.1.4 as the 'minimum' satisfactory layout. cause that's pretty much what i base 'sweet spot' as. it's the cheapest way of getting something i won't complain about and won't feel like i'm missing anything

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Last edited by fierce_gt; 12-18-2016 at 04:39 PM.
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post #26 of 61 Old 12-18-2016, 07:09 PM
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There's a gray area where the two can overlap but arguably it's not optimal. But yeah, you can make it work if you are willing to ignore Dolby's recommendations.
I'm reminded of this post and the accompanying thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/seaton-sound...m-axpona-2016/


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post #27 of 61 Old 12-19-2016, 07:05 AM
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Now the upgrade option I do believe is available for the AV7702 MKII as well?
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post #28 of 61 Old 12-19-2016, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Waffles View Post
Now the upgrade option I do believe is available for the AV7702 MKII as well?
Correct.
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post #29 of 61 Old 12-19-2016, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
There's a gray area where the two can overlap but arguably it's not optimal. But yeah, you can make it work if you are willing to ignore Dolby's recommendations.
Atmos has 5 possible locations for speaker pairs above the listeners. The outermost locations, high up on the front & rear walls, can also be used by Auro, though those locations are a compromise for both formats (i.e., Atmos would prefer those 2 pairs be more overhead on the ceiling than high on the walls while Auro would prefer the second pair of heights to be above the surround speakers rather than the surround-back speakers).

By comparison, then next inward locations, roughly 45 degrees elevation forward & rearward of the listener, are close enough to the DTS:X height locations that a single layout can satisfy both formats. Considering the lack of Auro movie titles on BD, at least compared to DTS:X discs, it makes less sense to do a layout that compromises both Atmos & Auro when those same speakers can instead be placed to satisfy both Atmos & DTS:X.

Where ever those speakers end up being placed, it won't prevent anyone from using Auro-Matic, IF that is their main reason for doing the Auro upgrade.

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post #30 of 61 Old 12-19-2016, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
i find it quite odd how much guys will spend on multiple subs, and then have to spend even more trying to control(which i think is a fancy way of saying make quieter) all that bass from destroying their soundstage (and in some cases the room itself, haha)
Multiple subs smoothen out bass response (fewer/smaller peaks & dips) AND make the bass more consistent from seat to seat. Nothing "odd" about that. And no need "spend even more to control" them. During initial calibration, they will be set to the same exact level as all the other speakers. Doesn't cost extra to do that.

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