Lyngdorf MP-50 | 12 Channel AV Processor; 9.1.6 with matrixed Wides and Top Middles - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1263Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1441 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 02:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RapalloAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 4,354
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Danger View Post
I think it has always been the case that DTS:X was designed to be used differently then adopted to work on the Dolby Atmos layout - that's the popular opinion or that DTS completely dropped the ball from inception. I'm pretty sure my Anthem didn't have this problem.

This could also 100% be Lyngdorf's fault - it's not the beta testers fault as such if you handed the code over to a 3rd party that twatted it somehow - one things for sure no one is going to come forward and give you a truthful answer.
Neural X should work very nicely with DTS movies, not just DTS-X films. What on earth is going on with the format
From what you tell us, I would have thought it was just a simple case of "them" lowering the surround channels in Neural X

Murray Thompson
X Owner RapalloAV
Absolutly no connection with RapalloNZ
CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018
RapalloAV is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1442 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 02:06 AM
Member
 
logdog333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to logdog333
Quote:
Originally Posted by logdog333 View Post
Hello from snowy Moscow to everybody!
Since last friday (thanks to our Lyngdorf distributor) we've been testing Mp-50 in our demo room. It's 7.1.4 atmos config with 6 subs (on one LFE channel ruled further with DSP). Here's the question for thoose who made measurements after RP made it's magic: why in a hack it rolls-off my only LFE channel down from 35 Hz at 20 dB per octave??
Here's the REW pic of Neutral and Bypass measurement of LFE channel sweep-tone:
I apologize if the matter was discussed - couldn't find with search.
Anyone, guys?
logdog333 is offline  
post #1443 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 04:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
madhuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,764
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1416 Post(s)
Liked: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I have confirmed that discrete PowerOn and PowerOff work properly now in rev. 3.0.0

Also, the new software is now posted online w/release notes. It appears that discrete sources are now supported as well. I will find out if IR is supported and what the corresponding IR codes are (and forward them to Harmony).

Release notes:
release 3.0.0:
- Support for DTS:X
- Added post-processing Auro-2D and DTS Neural:X
- Added DTS Dialog Control
- Supports passing through anamorphic formats sent by Kaleidescape
- Direct source select for P200/P100/MP50
- 4k AppleTV dolby vision bugfix
- bugfixes

I saw that - talk about great customer service! Here are the codes they gave me if you wana send them to logitech (i've been focusing on NEEO and URC....)




0 0x37CA, 0x00FF
1 0x37CA, 0x01FE
2 0x37CA, 0x02FD
3 0x37CA, 0x03FC
4 0x37CA, 0x04FB
5 0x37CA, 0x05FA
6 0x37CA, 0x06F9
7 0x37CA, 0x07F8
8 0x37CA, 0x08F7
9 0x37CA, 0x09F6
Audio 0x37CA, 0x0AF5
Setup 0x37CA, 0x0BF4
Power 0x37CA, 0x0CF3
PiP 0x37CA, 0x0DF2
Previous 0x37CA, 0x0EF1
Play_Pause 0x37CA, 0x0FF0
Next 0x37CA, 0x10EF
Up 0x37CA, 0x11EE
Left 0x37CA, 0x12ED
OK 0x37CA, 0x13EC
Right 0x37CA, 0x14EB
Down 0x37CA, 0x15EA
Back 0x37CA, 0x16E9
Menu 0x37CA, 0x17E8
SRC 0x37CA, 0x18E7
Vol+ 0x37CA, 0x19E6
SRC+ 0x37CA, 0x1AE5
Vol- 0x37CA, 0x1BE4
Mute 0x37CA, 0x1CE3
SRC- 0x37CA, 0x1DE2
Input 1: 0x37CA, 0x718E
Input 2: 0x37CA, 0x728D
Input 3: 0x37CA, 0x738C
Input 4: 0x37CA, 0x748B
Input 5: 0x37CA, 0x758A
Input 6: 0x37CA, 0x7689
Input 7: 0x37CA, 0x7788
Input 8: 0x37CA, 0x7887
Input 9: 0x37CA, 0x7986
On: 0x37CA, 0x807F
Off: 0x37CA, 0x817E
madhuski is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1444 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 09:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
normandia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lewes, DE
Posts: 556
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Marc and all,

Audio delays significantly improved, if not completely gone (with Oppo 203).
Well done to Lyngdorf (and possibly Oppo if there was collaboration) technical staff.

Lots of listening to verify, and I've noticed some slight delay, but it has been so long that I don't recall each track beginning.

When playing a CD or SACD after a slight possible initial delay on track 1 (if any, need to verify), the disc plays right through. I've had a few exceptions (some slight delay on some tracks), but when you replay from the beginning of the track it is completely gone.

Need to still verify coax and DVD-A, but thus far am much happier about it.

That said, there definitely was an issue that was not just my imagination, so I feel redeemed.

I had been listening to streaming over the past few months with no hiccups whatsoever.
Marc Alexander likes this.

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
FR: Marantz 8802A (and/or 7703), Sony XBR 4k TV, Meridian A350 LCR onwall, Dali in-wall surrounds, Atmos Martin Logan in-ceiling, REL sub, Oppo 105 (and/or 103), DTV, AppleTV, Sony 4k Media Server.
normandia is offline  
post #1445 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 09:20 AM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by normandia
Great.!
I don't want to restart discussion about audio delays, but noticed you have an Oppo 203, like me.
Do you notice these delayed starts (about 1.4 sec or so) at the beginning of each audio track on a SACD or CD with the MP-50?
OK, I've now had opportunity to comprehensively evaluate everything regarding this with respect to everything up to date as of right now...

Salient points as per follows:

• With the latest Lyngdorf MP-50 firmware update (v3.0.0) installed, but without the latest firmware version/update with respect to the OPPOs (i.e. previous OPPO firmware versions) the audio delay still occurs in all respects.

• With the latest Lyngdorf MP-50 firmware update (v3.0.0) installed, and with the latest firmware version/update with respect to the OPPOs, the situation is very much improved.

Specifically, whenever you switch between music albums, where it be a CD/SACD/DVD-A or album on USB flash drive as digital music audio files, the first time you play an audio track from whichever particular music album, then the delay occurs. However, if/when you restart the track from the beginning the delay no longer transpires and the audio track plays immediately from the start of the track without any delay whatsoever. Furthermore, when subsequently changing between audio tracks within the same music album, it now does so instantaneously without any delay whatsoever, and similarly the automatic transition between tracks is now completely seamless. However, when you change to a track off another music album then the delay occurs again, but only the first time that you play a track for the first time off a different album.

Consequently, this proves irrefutably that the issue has not resided exclusively with respect to the MP-50 but in fact the OPPOs, as I have previously explained. And for those who wish to know the reasons why this has been transpiring and why it's not been the MP-50 as primary guilty party please see my previous posts in this thread wherein I explained matters in detail.

So the good news is that with both latest OPPO firmware update and MP-50 firmware update installed you will only experience the audio delay when you first play a track for the first time with respect to any particular music album. So all you need to do is restart the track wherein it will then play right from the beginning without any delay whatsoever; and there won't be any further occurrence of the delay whilst you listen to that particular music album. But only when you change to listen to a track off a different album and the first time only that you play that audio track.

Some folks might still consider this to be an annoyance to the extent that you'd rather not have any delay occurring ever, in which case my previous recommendation regards investing in a Sony 800/1000 still stands; but otherwise given the issue is so much improved and now a much lesser annoyance you might be happy with this, in which case keep your OPPO. Wherein, it should be noted that with respect to the Sony 800/1000 used in conjunction with the Lyngdorf MP-50 there is absolutely no delays whatsoever in any circumstance, even when playing an audio track from a particular music album for the first time.

So a huge THANK YOU to the fine gentlemen and ladies at Lyngdorf for succeeding in achieving this despite not being the primary guilty party!


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 10-28-2017 at 09:33 AM.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1446 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 09:24 AM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by normandia View Post
Marc and all,

Audio delays significantly improved, if not completely gone (with Oppo 203).
Well done to Lyngdorf (and possibly Oppo if there was collaboration) technical staff.

Lots of listening to verify, and I've noticed some slight delay, but it has been so long that I don't recall each track beginning.

When playing a CD or SACD after a slight possible initial delay on track 1 (if any, need to verify), the disc plays right through. I've had a few exceptions (some slight delay on some tracks), but when you replay from the beginning of the track it is completely gone.

Need to still verify coax and DVD-A, but thus far am much happier about it.

That said, there definitely was an issue that was not just my imagination, so I feel redeemed.

I had been listening to streaming over the past few months with no hiccups whatsoever.
Please see my post ^^^

ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1447 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 10:07 AM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Danger View Post
DTS-X is fine. Neural X is not*. If someone wants to tell me that it's just a different mix and it was intended, then that's fine - but it sucks the entire front sound stage up and shoves a lot more into everything else.. or! everything else is louder because the fronts are very muted. Suffice to say I wouldn't personally use it - in comparison to something like one of the big Denon's the difference were more subtle, but i recall a lot of people even then kinda complaining about Neural X. This was also pointed out by Arrow AV in a highly classified and very serious document. *Tested with Stranger Things S2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
OMG that sounds horrible!!! Why oh why cant they get these things right???? The Dolby upmixer works fantastic, Neural X should also, why is it so hard for them to get it right? Didnt the beta testers tell them before it went live???
Both Neural:X and Auro-2D are definitely malfunctioning.

With Auro-2D there's no audio emanating from the back surrounds, when its purpose is to upscale stereo and 5.1 audio to 7.1.

Neural:X is sounding very wrong indeed and nothing like how sounds with other AV processors/receivers. IMO when working properly/correctly it sounds better than the Dolby (Atmos) Surround upmixer, with respect to both movies and music audio, where the Dolby (Atmos) Surround upmixer improves certain aspects of the audio but messes up other aspects; which is why I've be busting to have DTS:X and Neural X added to the MP-50 and P200 processors.

All of 7.1, 5.1, and stereo audio upscaled via Neural:X sound completely messed up in more ways than one. It's like someone has thrown a load of wet towels or blankets over your LCR front soundstage whilst also passing the other audio channels through a malfunctioning DSP device. Suffice to say, unfortunately as of right now IMO it's completely unusable and not fit for purpose... That said, don't worry folks, this is most assuredly a minor hiccup and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the Lyndorf technical team will fix this. They always listen and they've never let us down yet in this regard, so they won't be doing so now. I've already contacted them accordingly, so watch this space.

The good news is that native DTS:X works perfectly and it sounds absolutely A-M-A-Z-I-N-G on the MP-50!!!


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 10-28-2017 at 11:25 AM.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1448 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 10:19 AM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Danger View Post
Hence the classifididityness of it... I can't say too much, but I am part of a secret society - sometimes it's 'what's this ditch going to be?' other times it's 'Is Neural-x wankered?'
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
OMG I have no idea what language you are speaking, Im totally confused....
He's speaking IRISH that's why you can't understand what he's saying
.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1449 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 10:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
normandia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lewes, DE
Posts: 556
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
OK, I've now had opportunity to comprehensively evaluate everything regarding this with respect to everything up to date as of right now...

Salient points as per follows:

• With the latest Lyngdorf MP-50 firmware update (v3.0.0) installed, but without the latest firmware version/update with respect to the OPPOs (i.e. previous OPPO firmware versions) the audio delay still occurs in all respects.

• With the latest Lyngdorf MP-50 firmware update (v3.0.0) installed, and with the latest firmware version/update with respect to the OPPOs, the situation is very much improved.

Specifically, whenever you switch between music albums, where it be a CD/SACD/DVD-A or album on USB flash drive as digital music audio files, the first time you play an audio track from whichever particular music album, then the delay occurs. However, if/when you restart the track from the beginning the delay no longer transpires and the audio track plays immediately from the start of the track without any delay whatsoever. Furthermore, when subsequently changing between audio tracks within the same music album, it now does so instantaneously without any delay whatsoever, and similarly the automatic transition between tracks is now completely seamless. However, when you change to a track off another music album then the delay occurs again, but only the first time that you play a track for the first time off a different album.

Consequently, this proves irrefutably that the issue has not resided exclusively with respect to the MP-50 but in fact the OPPOs, as I have previously explained. And for those who wish to know the reasons why this has been transpiring and why it's not been the MP-50 as primary guilty party please see my previous posts in this thread wherein I explained matters in detail.

So the good news is that with both latest OPPO firmware update and MP-50 firmware update installed you will only experience the audio delay when you first play a track for the first time with respect to any particular music album. So all you need to do is restart the track wherein it will then play right from the beginning without any delay whatsoever; and there won't be any further occurrence of the delay whilst you listen to that particular music album. But only when you change to listen to a track off a different album and the first time only that you play that audio track.

Some folks might still consider this to be an annoyance to the extent that you'd rather not have any delay occurring ever, in which case my previous recommendation regards investing in a Sony 800/1000 still stands; but otherwise given the issue is so much improved and now a much lesser annoyance you might be happy with this, in which case keep your OPPO. Wherein, it should be noted that with respect to the Sony 800/1000 used in conjunction with the Lyngdorf MP-50 there is absolutely no delays whatsoever in any circumstance, even when playing an audio track from a particular music album for the first time.

So a huge THANK YOU to the fine gentlemen and ladies at Lyngdorf for succeeding in achieving this despite not being the primary guilty party!

Agree exactly as you have stated the entire situation and my sincere thanks to you and Lyngdorf as well.
ARROW-AV likes this.

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
FR: Marantz 8802A (and/or 7703), Sony XBR 4k TV, Meridian A350 LCR onwall, Dali in-wall surrounds, Atmos Martin Logan in-ceiling, REL sub, Oppo 105 (and/or 103), DTV, AppleTV, Sony 4k Media Server.
normandia is offline  
post #1450 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 10:24 AM
Member
 
Rock Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Belfast
Posts: 134
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
He's speaking IRISH that's why you can't understand what he's saying
.
Northern Irish I think you'll find, or 'Norn Iron' as it's known here.


Neural X is indeed wrong, I'll be amazed and a little sad if Lyngdorf come back and say it's meant to sound like that. Whoever ok'ed that should have their melt knocked in or at least a 4d in the coupon.. total ballix like.
Rock Danger is offline  
post #1451 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 11:05 AM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Danger View Post
Neural X is indeed wrong, I'll be amazed and a little sad if Lyngdorf come back and say it's meant to sound like that.
I don't they will because it most certainly is not meant to sound like that!

I've heard Neural:X a great many times and I am very familiar with respect to what it is supposed to sound like, and trust me when I say this isn't it!

Further to testing it using 5.1/7.1 audio content, if you haven't done so already try putting on something in STEREO, such as stereo music, and then activate Neural:X and see what it sounds like as compared with no processing, and then also as compared with the Dolby (Atmos) Surround upmixer

Via other AV processors and receivers Neural:X sounds completely different. This is not even close to sounding what it should sound like.

I still have very clear memories regarding what Neural:X sounds like via the Denon AVR-X7200WA, for example, wherein it's fabulous. IMO out of all three upmixers Neural:X is by far the best. It's significantly better than the Dolby (Atmos) Upmixer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Danger View Post
Whoever OK'ed that should have their melt knocked in or at least a 4d in the coupon.. total ballix like.
Suffice to say I've just offered my services for free as a Beta Tester...


.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1452 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 11:51 AM
Member
 
arisholm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I don't they will because it most certainly is not meant to sound like that!

I've heard Neural:X a great many times and I am very familiar with respect to what it is supposed to sound like, and trust me when I say this isn't it!

Further to testing it using 5.1/7.1 audio content, if you haven't done so already try putting on something in STEREO, such as stereo music, and then activate Neural:X and see what it sounds like as compared with no processing, and then also as compared with the Dolby (Atmos) Surround upmixer

Via other AV processors and receivers Neural:X sounds completely different. This is not even close to sounding what it should sound like.

I still have very clear memories regarding what Neural:X sounds like via the Denon AVR-X7200WA, for example, wherein it's fabulous. IMO out of all three upmixers Neural:X is by far the best. It's significantly better than the Dolby (Atmos) Upmixer


Suffice to say I've just offered my services for free as a Beta Tester...


.
As far as I can tell neither Auro3D nor Auro2D is outputting anything to the surround back speakers from a stereo signal source...

Movie: MP-50 7.4.4, Adam Audio S5X-V, Tensor Center, SVS 2xPB16 2xPC13, Isovolt 3k, microRendu+ultracap
Stereo: dCS Bartok, ASR Emitter II Excl, Paradigm Persona 9H, Adyton Isovolt 6k, Roon
arisholm is offline  
post #1453 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 11:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,349
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 869 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Ah, all 48 pages finished. Thank you @ARROW-AV @SteveH @richmagnus and others for so much good info!

Couple questions:

1. For multiple subs that all play LFE + redirected bass, it seems like the manual says if you add them to the Aux outputs, they'll play the LFE track + split redirected bass between the front and back. Is it possible to assign the aux subs to behave like the LFE output?

2. Planning on a 5.1.4 + Wides setup for 7.1.4. How does the MP-50 switch between native Atmos using the Wides and matrixed wides with DSU?
Refreshification to see if anyone knows

Lyngdorf MP-50 | Yamaha MX-A5200 | Ascend Sierra Towers | Ascend Sierra Horizon | Ascend Sierra Lunas | Ascend HTM-200SE | SVS SB-13 x4
duckymomo is offline  
post #1454 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 12:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Ah, all 48 pages finished. Thank you @ARROW-AV @SteveH @richmagnus and others for so much good info!

Couple questions:

1. For multiple subs that all play LFE + redirected bass, it seems like the manual says if you add them to the Aux outputs, they'll play the LFE track + split redirected bass between the front and back. Is it possible to assign the aux subs to behave like the LFE output?

2. Planning on a 5.1.4 + Wides setup for 7.1.4. How does the MP-50 switch between native Atmos using the Wides and matrixed wides with DSU?
1. Aux subs must be added in L/R pairs. If you want front/rear subs you need a total of 4 subs at this time. I am requesting an option for front/rear without requiring L/R pairs. You can assign these subs to play only redirected bass if you have a separate LFE sub assigned or LFE as well. With no separate LFE assigned, the aux subs will reproduce the LFE. The user's manual does a good job explaining this. Download here: http://lyngdorf.com/mp-50/

2. The MP-50 will not play matrixed wides in a 5.1.4 + Wides setup. Wides will be rendered in Atmos, but unused with DSU. Wides should be used with dts Neural X once operating properly. In the speaker setup menu matrixed channels are greyed (only after all rendered channels are allocated). This is my setup for 5.1.4 + Wides + matrixed TOP MIDS:
ARROW-AV likes this.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #1455 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 12:20 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by arisholm View Post
As far as I can tell neither Auro3D nor Auro2D is outputting anything to the surround back speakers from a stereo signal source...
Since the MP-50 does not support Auro3D 13.1 REAR SURROUNDS are not utilized. My understanding is that Auro2D simply eliminates the height layer (at least D+M's implementation). I believe Datasat supports REAR SURROUNDS if VoG and Height Center are not utilized. I don't believe the MP-50 supports this...yet. It makes sense that REAR SURROUNDS are inactive with Auro-3D or 2D.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #1456 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 12:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
I'd be more concerned with spending 10k on a processor that has handshake issues with basic everyday home theater items honestly.
I try to resist troll bait.

You are in the wrong thread friend. The folks here who bought this 10k processor bought it for one reason, Sound Quality. Checkout the Theta Casablanca IV thread as well. Those clowns wasted even more money.

D+M win hands down when it comes to feature sets and compatibility. They will never come close in terms of SQ as long as Audyssey is the only supported REQ solution (I am running Denons in our den and bedroom). An AV8805 w/Dirac would be another story altogether! For this reason (REQ), many will choose the Emotiva RMC-1 over the AV8805.

Anyone who has followed this thread knows that I have been a harsh critic of the MP-50 (10.2Gbps HDMI 2.0-lite, no DTS:X at launch, etc.), yet I still bought one. I wish I had remained ignorant of the virtues of RoomPerfect and the Voicing tool, I'd have money in my pocket.

Why are you "awaiting the AV8805" and not the RMC-1 (and why are you posting here?)? The hardware is largely identical and Dirac is far superior to Audyssey.
duckymomo and ARROW-AV like this.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #1457 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 12:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,349
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 869 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I try to resist troll bait.

You are in the wrong thread friend. The folks here who bought this 10k processor bought it for one reason, Sound Quality. Checkout the Theta Casablanca IV thread as well. Those clowns wasted even more money.

D+M win hands down when it comes to feature sets and compatibility. They will never come close in terms of SQ as long as Audyssey is the only supported REQ solution (I am running Denons in our den and bedroom). An AV8805 w/Dirac would be another story altogether! For this reason (REQ), many will choose the Emotiva RMC-1 over the AV8805.

Anyone who has followed this thread knows that I have been a harsh critic of the MP-50 (10.2Gbps HDMI 2.0-lite, no DTS:X at launch, etc.), yet I still bought one. I wish I had remained ignorant of the virtues of RoomPerfect and the Voicing tool, I'd have money in my pocket.

Why are you "awaiting the AV8805" and not the RMC-1 (and why are you posting here?)? The hardware is largely identical and Dirac is far superior to Audyssey.
+1

I've been a critic in the past as well and I will be ordering one shortly. Thanks for the Wides and Aux sub info! Looks like I'll need to y-cable my subs or use a 2x4.

I'm not sure if I'm going to go through the trouble of installing wides if they can't be matrixed in a 7.1.4.

Lyngdorf MP-50 | Yamaha MX-A5200 | Ascend Sierra Towers | Ascend Sierra Horizon | Ascend Sierra Lunas | Ascend HTM-200SE | SVS SB-13 x4
duckymomo is offline  
post #1458 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 12:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RapalloAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 4,354
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I don't they will because it most certainly is not meant to sound like that!

I've heard Neural:X a great many times and I am very familiar with respect to what it is supposed to sound like, and trust me when I say this isn't it!

Further to testing it using 5.1/7.1 audio content, if you haven't done so already try putting on something in STEREO, such as stereo music, and then activate Neural:X and see what it sounds like as compared with no processing, and then also as compared with the Dolby (Atmos) Surround upmixer

Via other AV processors and receivers Neural:X sounds completely different. This is not even close to sounding what it should sound like.

I still have very clear memories regarding what Neural:X sounds like via the Denon AVR-X7200WA, for example, wherein it's fabulous. IMO out of all three upmixers Neural:X is by far the best. It's significantly better than the Dolby (Atmos) Upmixer


Suffice to say I've just offered my services for free as a Beta Tester...


.
Arrow I just dont understand all this....
Neural X on the MP50 should sound fantastic. As you were a beta tester did you not tell them that their implementation of Neural X was bad?
If so what was their comments?

I paid for the DTS-X update on my old Marantz 8802 years ago, although they got some things wrong it sounded fantastic using Neural X, the surrounds were not top heavy.

You state out of all the three upmixers you have heard you think Neural X is the best of the bunch, yet poor on the MP50, this is very sad news!
Do you think they will re work it and make it sound better like "other" brands?

Murray Thompson
X Owner RapalloAV
Absolutly no connection with RapalloNZ
CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018

Last edited by RapalloAV; 10-28-2017 at 01:15 PM.
RapalloAV is online now  
post #1459 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:16 PM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Since the MP-50 does not support Auro3D 13.1 REAR SURROUNDS are not utilized. My understanding is that Auro2D simply eliminates the height layer (at least D+M's implementation). I believe Datasat supports REAR SURROUNDS if VoG and Height Center are not utilized. I don't believe the MP-50 supports this...yet. It makes sense that REAR SURROUNDS are inactive with Auro-3D or 2D.
Marc, with the Denon X7200WA for example, which is a 9-channel receiver that doesn't support Auro-3D 13.1, with respect to both Auro-3D and Auro-2D sound emanates from the back surrounds

And with respect to Auro-2D IMO its most useful feature is the ability to upscale to 7.1


.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1460 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,131
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2174 Post(s)
Liked: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
1. Aux subs must be added in L/R pairs. If you want front/rear subs you need a total of 4 subs at this time. I am requesting an option for front/rear without requiring L/R pairs. You can assign these subs to play only redirected bass if you have a separate LFE sub assigned or LFE as well. With no separate LFE assigned, the aux subs will reproduce the LFE. The user's manual does a good job explaining this. Download here: http://lyngdorf.com/mp-50/

Marc, I'm not clear on whether you're talking about what it will do now or after your requested changes.

As it stands now, will the MP-50 properly calibrate one front and one rear sub, both receiving LFE + redirected bass?

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #1461 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Marc, I'm not clear on whether you're talking about what it will do now or after your requested changes.

As it stands now, will the MP-50 properly calibrate one front and one rear sub, both receiving LFE + redirected bass?
No, when I try to add a front or rear sub it automatically adds Left and Right. There is no way to configure one front and one rear. I believe this will be remedied by Lyngdorf in a future software release.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #1462 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Marc, with the Denon X7200WA for example, which is a 9-channel receiver that doesn't support Auro-3D 13.1, with respect to both Auro-3D and Auro-2D sound emanates from the back surrounds

And with respect to Auro-2D IMO its most useful feature is the ability to upscale to 7.1


.
I never had the Auro update on any of my D+Ms, so I don't know first-hand. I do follow this Auro thread which has discussed REAR SURROUNDS in Auro extensively:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...r-version.html
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #1463 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:29 PM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Arrow I just dont understand all this....
Neural X on the MP50 should sound fantastic. As you were a beta tester did you not tell them that their implementation of Neural X was bad?
I wasn't a beta tester...

Although, I have just volunteered my services for free as a beta tester with respect to all future hardware and firmware releases...

And yes, if I had been a beta tester I would most certainly have provided them with feedback in this regard, precisely as I would have done with respect to the MP-50 when it was launched, with respect to its particular launch issues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
I paid for the DTS-X update on my old Marantz 8802 years ago, although they got some things wrong it sounded fantastic using Neural X, the surrounds were not top heavy.
Correct. The Marantz and Denons as well as others all sound great with respect to Neural:X. Suffice to say with the MP-50 as of right now is not how its supposed to sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
You state out of all the three upmixers you have heard you think Neural X is the best of the bunch, yet poor on the MP50, this is very sad news! Do you think they will re work it and make it sound better like "other" brands?
I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Lyngdorf will correct matters. They've never let us down yet and they are not about to start now. This is simply a temporary hiccup that will definitely be fixed.

The primary reason behind the delay with respect to DTS:X being added is the with the pre-existing DSP chipsets it has been impossible for all of Dolby Atmos, Auro, and DTS:X to be incorporated at the same time and have them all working properly. So I am guessing that this may still be an issue and that this might be the crux of the problem... So I have suggested to Lyngdorf that if this is indeed the cause of the issue then to ditch Auro in favour of having Dolby Atmos and DTS:X with their respective upmixers all working properly, instead of having half-cocked Auro with no back surrounds functionality and a broken Neural:X that's not fit for purpose.

I will be sure to feedback updates as and when I receive a response accordingly.

Either way, I have absolute confidence that they will fix matters.


.
OzHDHT likes this.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1464 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
+1

I've been a critic in the past as well and I will be ordering one shortly. Thanks for the Wides and Aux sub info! Looks like I'll need to y-cable my subs or use a 2x4.

I'm not sure if I'm going to go through the trouble of installing wides if they can't be matrixed in a 7.1.4.
Why would you want your WIDES matrixed instead of rendered?
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #1465 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,349
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 869 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Why would you want your WIDES matrixed instead of rendered?
I have hundreds of movies that don't have Atmos audio so I have to use DSU. If I spend the time and money for wides, I'd like them to be used more often then 1 in 40 movies.
ARROW-AV likes this.

Lyngdorf MP-50 | Yamaha MX-A5200 | Ascend Sierra Towers | Ascend Sierra Horizon | Ascend Sierra Lunas | Ascend HTM-200SE | SVS SB-13 x4

Last edited by duckymomo; 10-28-2017 at 01:37 PM.
duckymomo is offline  
post #1466 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:34 PM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I never had the Auro update on any of my D+Ms, so I don't know first-hand. I do follow this Auro thread which has discussed REAR SURROUNDS in Auro extensively:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...r-version.html
I haven't myself researched Auro comprehensively nor used it extensively because I think it's a bit rubbish, but the Denon definitely has audio emanating from the back surrounds with both Auro-3D and Auro-2D... Either way, if having all three formats supported is causing these issues I think Lyngdorf should ditch the Auro completely in favour of having all of Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, as well as Dolby Surround Upmixer and Neural:X upmixer all working properly. But that's just my opinion...

G-Rex likes this.

Last edited by ARROW-AV; 10-28-2017 at 01:44 PM.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1467 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:34 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 23,131
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2174 Post(s)
Liked: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
No, when I try to add a front or rear sub it automatically adds Left and Right. There is no way to configure one front and one rear. I believe this will be remedied by Lyngdorf in a future software release.

Is that because you're telling it you're adding a F or R, or it just assumes , and you could tell it it's just a generic additional sub?

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #1468 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RapalloAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 4,354
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post

The primary reason behind the delay with respect to DTS:X being added is the with the pre-existing DSP chipsets it has been impossible for all of Dolby Atmos, Auro, and DTS:X to be incorporated at the same time and have them all working properly. So I am guessing that this may still be an issue and that this might be the crux of the problem... So I have suggested to Lyngdorf that if this is indeed the cause of the issue then to ditch Auro in favour of having Dolby Atmos and DTS:X with their respective upmixers all working properly, instead of having half-cocked Auro with no back surrounds functionality and a broken Neural:X that's not fit for purpose.

I will be sure to feedback updates as and when I receive a response accordingly.

Either way, I have absolute confidence that they will fix matters.


.
This is now starting to sound more promising...
I would be more than happy to dump Auro 3D to get a proper working Neural X.

I installed everything needed for Auro 3D, VOG, extra amps etc etc... But I cant stand it for movies so I NEVER use it now.
So if we could have a choice which of the three we can implement on our gear, Im more than happy to dump one to get 2 good working versions.
ARROW-AV likes this.

Murray Thompson
X Owner RapalloAV
Absolutly no connection with RapalloNZ
CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018
RapalloAV is online now  
post #1469 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:36 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Say hello to the new post processing additions:



I just noticed that Lyngdorf has replaced dts Neo 6 with dts Neo X. Dts Neo X may be a more acceptible upmixing experience until the dts Neural X implementation can be remedied.


https://www.lifewire.com/dts-neo-x-1846849

According to the link, Neo X utilizes the 5.1.4 + WIDES layout. Edit: When the article mentions wides, they are actually referring to side surrounds. It then later references utilizing WIDES in place of REAR SURROUNDS. Neo X should work with standard 7.1.4 and 5.1.4 + WIDES.

I have a dts Neo X encoded disc, Dredd 3D, which contains Neo X test tones. However, I won't be able to test until after the w/e.
ARROW-AV likes this.

Last edited by Marc Alexander; 10-28-2017 at 01:45 PM.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #1470 of 3062 Old 10-28-2017, 01:41 PM
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,523
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4139 Post(s)
Liked: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
I have hundreds of movies that don't have Atmos audio so I have to use DSU. If I spend the time and money for wides, it's reasonable to want them to be used more often then 1 in 40 movies.
IMO what would be best of all is to have BOTH the wides rendered AND being used properly all of the time... Which would be the case if you used Neural:X instead of DSU in combination with a speaker configuration wherein the wides are rendered as opposed to matrixed... after Lyngdorf fix the Neural:X functionality that is...

Marc Alexander likes this.
ARROW-AV is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
lyngdorf , mp-50 , owner's , processor , surround

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off