Lyngdorf MP-50 | 12 Channel AV Processor; 9.1.6 with matrixed Wides and Top Middles - Page 54 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1591 of 3013 Old 11-09-2017, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
I've been searching for some "nudes" of the MP-50 and haven't found any yet. The first thing I do with new equipment is open it up to examine and photograph it.
I agree, and now I am even more curious and would love to open it. But then again, I have a 6 year warranty on the MP-50 (from the Norwegian distributor), and I am not willing to risk voiding that :-)

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post #1592 of 3013 Old 11-09-2017, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by arisholm View Post
I agree, and now I am even more curious and would love to open it. But then again, I have a 6 year warranty on the MP-50 (from the Norwegian distributor), and I am not willing to risk voiding that :-)
Are the screws sealed with a sticker?

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post #1593 of 3013 Old 11-09-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Is there any info from Lyngdorf saying it has a digital volume control? If not, may be seriously moot. Has anyone looked inside to see what parts populate the boards?
It is my understanding that the MP-50 is designed and built by the same team responsible for the TDAI-2170 and SL P200. In fact, the MP-50 is heavily based on the P200. The TDAI and P200 both are designed with a fully digital signal path all the way to the amplifiers (with the PCM to PWM conversion done at the amplifiers).

I would be very surprised to find that the MP-50 employs an analog volume control. I love the MP-50 volume control BTW. The adjustments are in 0.5db increments when using the remote control or web interface. However, the front volume knob adjusts in 0.1dB increments and has a great feel to it.

Digital vs. Analog Volume Controls

I may have to pop the top of my MP-50 to determine the DACs. I suspect Lyngdorf is using ESS Sabre Pros.

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post #1594 of 3013 Old 11-09-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It is my understanding that the MP-50 is designed and built by the same team responsible for the TDAI-2170 and SL P200. In fact, the MP-50 is heavily based on the P200. The TDAI and P200 both are designed with a fully digital signal path all the way to the amplifiers (with the PCM to PWM conversion done at the amplifiers).
I'm sure the design team is well skilled and could do either analog or digital. Considering the MP-50 has analog outputs, it would not be radical to use an analog volume control.

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I would be very surprised to find that the MP-50 employs an analog volume control. I love the MP-50 volume control BTW. The adjustments are in 0.5db increments when using the remote control or web interface. However, the front volume knob adjusts in 0.1dB increments and has a great feel to it.
Now that's compelling evidence that the control is digital. There are no analog controls with less then 0.5 dB steps (at least, not that I have seen -- someone will find one now! )

Thanks for the ESS paper. It shows that even a 16-bit volume control produces a noise floor no higher than the dither noise (98 dB S/N is >16 bits). So yes, 32- or even 24-bit controls ought to work nicely.

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I may have to pop the top of my MP-50 to determine the DACs.
Half the fun of owning high end gear is marveling at the craftsmanship inside. For me, anyway.
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post #1595 of 3013 Old 11-10-2017, 11:16 AM
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This unit is becoming more and more interesting. Anyone in the NJ area have one that I could demo, lol?
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post #1596 of 3013 Old 11-10-2017, 02:14 PM
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This unit is becoming more and more interesting. Anyone in the NJ area have one that I could demo, lol?
there is one listed on Ebay ... i'd be willing to bet you could negotiate its price down to 7k ... with zero dts-x
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post #1597 of 3013 Old 11-10-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
there is one listed on Ebay ... i'd be willing to bet you could negotiate its price down to 7k ... with zero dts-x
If I were ready to pull the trigger right now, I'd consider it. Not really sure I want to toss $7k at an EBay seller, though.
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post #1598 of 3013 Old 11-10-2017, 03:11 PM
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If I were ready to pull the trigger right now, I'd consider it. Not really sure I want to toss $7k at an EBay seller, though.
why not? pay with a credit card through paypal .. you're covered both ways. I don't particularly like paypal, nor would i ever have another account with them, but paying through them as a one time thing is perfectly safe.
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post #1599 of 3013 Old 11-11-2017, 01:21 PM
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With regard to Subwoofers, the MP-50 provides the ability to use Sub-L/R and Sub-LFE. Could some of you experts please comment on using a single Sub-LFE vs Sub-L/R as well as using both Sub-LFE and Sub-L/R? And if you could only do one or the other, which one would you use? My particular use will be both music and movies, but probably a bit less music and a bit more movies. Thank you much in advance!
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post #1600 of 3013 Old 11-11-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
With regard to Subwoofers, the MP-50 provides the ability to use Sub-L/R and Sub-LFE. Could some of you experts please comment on using a single Sub-LFE vs Sub-L/R as well as using both Sub-LFE and Sub-L/R? And if you could only do one or the other, which one would you use? My particular use will be both music and movies, but probably a bit less music and a bit more movies. Thank you much in advance!
If you have 2 or 4 subs, they can be configured at L/R + LFE. My preference would be to configure Front L/R and Rear L/R subs as +LFE (the LFE output is unused in this case). Unfortunately, with my Seaton F18+ system it would drive the cost way up to have additional active F18+ units vs one active and three passive so I don't have the option. I do have a pair of PA subs (Turbosound IP12b) that act as MBMs for enhancing tactile response. I am currently stacking them atop a pair of Funk DO12s (18.0C equiv) on the sidewalls directly adjacent to the MLP to experiment with stereo subs and the MP-50.

I like this article by Ken Rockwell: Stereo Subwoofers: Why Every Man Needs Two

European media and living rooms often feature smaller satellite speakers compared to many Americans' rooms. For 2.0 music listening, Ken Rockwell makes the case against using a mono subwoofer.

All 15 of my speakers are rated to extend to 75Hz or less. In practice however, the FR ratings can mislead you as you choose crossovers. As SPL levels rise towards reference (105dB), I found that only my front 3 could reproduce 80hz (let alone below) without obvious woofer overload and high distortion. Setting the crossover higher alleviates this strain. I have since moved the crossover up to 125Hz (The upper limit of the MBMs is ~160Hz). I experimented with setting the crossover even higher but didn't find any benefit above 125Hz. I believe Lyngdorf's recommendations of crossovers between 300Hz - 800Hz should realistically only be applied to the front stereo pair in a setup similar their boundary woofer + satellite speakers. While my main L/R are full range (down to 18Hz in my room) I cross them over at 63Hz which seems to be working well.

RoomPerfect is doing something to affect the transition of bass at the crossover point [in a good way]. This is something on my long list of things to measure.
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post #1601 of 3013 Old 11-12-2017, 04:19 AM
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RoomPerfect is doing something to affect the transition of bass at the crossover point [in a good way]. This is something on my long list of things to measure.
Totally agreed, Mark!
RP has done really good job (magic) coupling\blending all the 11 speakers (100 Hz crossovered) in our room with the single LFE channel sub. We have 6 subs distributed around the room on 3 channels of external DSP, pre-EQed to be almost flat on MLP. I have heard a LOT more bass from surround and ceiling with MP-50 then ever up to date. It really added the depth to the overall sound field. I'm pretty sure it operates in time domain and tweaks up the Phase of each sattelite speaker to be perfectly blended with the corresponding Sub channel. No other explanation comes to mind. This type of result I haven't heard from any other RoomEQ system.
And it made the LFE responce even more flat then it was made by hand with PEQ.
Now what's left is to investigate why it rolls-off LFE at 35 Hz....
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post #1602 of 3013 Old 11-12-2017, 03:15 PM
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Lyngdorf MP-50 | 12 Channel AV Processor; 9.1.6 with matrixed Wides and Top Middles

We we are running 4 subs via Aux 1-4. A pair of MK X10’s Front L&R and a pair of MK IW28S in wall subs Rear L&R. Really like how the MP-50 allows for this. LFE is split between the 4 subs.


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post #1603 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 12:44 PM
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Thank you all for your input on Subwoofers and the link to Ken Rockwell's article (very informative). Unfortunately, I don't have the option of running 4 Subs.

I currently have 2 Subs. With the 2 Subs, my options are:

Run the 2 Subs as (Front) Sub-L/R
Run the 2 Subs from the LFE channel with a Y-cable (which would free up 2 Aux channels)

If I buy 1 additional Sub, I could run Sub-L/R (using the existing 2 Subs) and also run Sub-LFE with the 1 new addition Sub.

So, what are the pro's and con's of my options and which would you recommend??
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post #1604 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
Ken Rockwell's article (very informative).
That's something you don't see very often... He's not exactly well respected in the camera world, he frequently writes verbose "reviews" of products he hasn't even seen yet.
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post #1605 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 01:57 PM
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That's something you don't see very often... He's not exactly well respected in the camera world, he frequently writes verbose "reviews" of products he hasn't even seen yet.
I was referring to his article on Subwoofers and why everyone should have 2 sub's.. your thoughts on that??
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post #1606 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 05:02 PM
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same guy from ebay ... wants $160 shipping LOL

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/pr...3-home-theater

obviously wants to sell it .. might be a good snag for someone in the market for this piece of equipment.

and another...

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/su...3-home-theater

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post #1607 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 05:23 PM
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@madhuski has decided to sell his MP-50 after just a few weeks. I would buy from him before someone who "estimates" shipping to be $160-$175.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2932894

I think Roseville, MN may be madhuski
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post #1608 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
Thank you all for your input on Subwoofers and the link to Ken Rockwell's article (very informative). Unfortunately, I don't have the option of running 4 Subs.

I currently have 2 Subs. With the 2 Subs, my options are:

Run the 2 Subs as (Front) Sub-L/R
Yes, this ^^. L/R + LFE

Both will play all mono and LFE bass. Here is how bass management will be assigned (p. 15 in the manual).
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post #1609 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 05:39 PM
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That's something you don't see very often... He's not exactly well respected in the camera world, he frequently writes verbose "reviews" of products he hasn't even seen yet.
I'm not a photographer but I liked his take on audiophilia as well: http://kenrockwell.com/audio/audiophile.htm
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post #1610 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@madhuski has decided to sell his MP-50 after just a few weeks. I would buy from him before someone who "estimates" shipping to be $160-$175.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2932894

I think Roseville, MN may be madhuski


Thanks Marc- yes, Roseville MN is me.

Not sure why, but the lyngdorf just didn’t hit that note with me, as we discussed a little bit via PM. I’ll probably stick with my Anthem (damn network issues....) as a stopgap until either the RMC, 8805 or Denon AVR flagship is out.

Selling in AVS classifieds
FS: JTR 118HT Subwoofer
FS: Marantz 8805
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post #1611 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 06:32 PM
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Thanks Marc- yes, Roseville MN is me.

Not sure why, but the lyngdorf just didn’t hit that note with me, as we discussed a little bit via PM. I’ll probably stick with my Anthem (damn network issues....) as a stopgap until either the RMC, 8805 or Denon AVR flagship is out.
twas me that messaged you on the site you're selling on ..obviously. Hope you didn't mind posting your page here ... probably will get you some exposure.

I'm stuck in Africa until December 19th .. which blows, but oh well ya know ..its a job.

I think I'll wait out the 8805 as well unless I can find a stocking dealer with the storm audio processors set up that I can listen to and play with.
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post #1612 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 07:34 PM
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Yes, this ^^. L/R + LFE
Marc, thank you for your reply but (sorry) I'm getting confused with the "+LFE"

Are you saying forget getting the additional 3rd Sub for the dedicated LFE channel and just use my existing 2 Subs as Sub-L/R ? How does the "+ LFE" figure into that??
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post #1613 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 08:06 PM
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That’s what I use on the MX160. LFE plays through both the L&R subs.... SJ
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post #1614 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
Marc, thank you for your reply but (sorry) I'm getting confused with the "+LFE"

Are you saying forget getting the additional 3rd Sub for the dedicated LFE channel and just use my existing 2 Subs as Sub-L/R ? How does the "+ LFE" figure into that??
YES! Read the bass management section of the manual starting on page 14.

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post #1615 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 09:24 PM
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hey mark..

can a non-technical woman use this to watch uhd 4k blurays, tv, and spotify?

Also, how about 5.1 + 5 height or 7.1 + 6 height?

I'm simply asking based on what seems to be the atmos/dts-x/auro 3-d specs.

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post #1616 of 3013 Old 11-13-2017, 11:48 PM
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hey mark..

can a non-technical woman use this to watch uhd 4k blurays, tv, and spotify?

Also, how about 5.1 + 5 height or 7.1 + 6 height?

I'm simply asking based on what seems to be the atmos/dts-x/auro 3-d specs.
If she is smartphone/tablet savvy you can set the MP-50 up via Harmony Hub for very easy use. I'm not a fan of the factory remote. I use the web interface or Harmony instead.

As long as you have a premium Spotify account you cast to the MP-50 via the Spotify app (aka Spotify connect). Same as you would to a Chromecast.
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post #1617 of 3013 Old 11-14-2017, 11:20 AM
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I would strongly recommend running dual L&R subs. The LFE will be split between these. You can add a dedicated LFE sub too


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post #1618 of 3013 Old 11-14-2017, 11:36 AM
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can a non-technical woman use this to watch uhd 4k blurays, tv, and spotify?
That's really more a question of how the entire system is setup than about any individual component. A system with a pre-pro at this level really ought to have a proper control system operating the system to make it easy for nearly anyone to use. At a minimum, something like a Logitech Harmony should be used.

To hopefully make a point without stirring up a hornets nest:

Some non-technical women may find any given system easy to use while a technical man might be totally lost...
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post #1619 of 3013 Old 11-14-2017, 12:04 PM
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I was referring to his article on Subwoofers and why everyone should have 2 sub's.. your thoughts on that??
I actually disagree with the assertion that EVERYONE should have 2 subs as things like budget come into play. Just for instance, if the budget is limited, I'd much rather see someone buy 1 good sub than 2 mediocre subs. I'd also rather have a pair of excellent speakers (even if they're lacking at the lower frequencies) and no subwoofer if it comes to it; not because the bass would be better but because bass is only one part of the overall experience and IMHO subwoofers are one of those things that should be added AFTER you already have pretty good speakers. I definitely disagree with his assertion that a pair of big full-range speakers is better than going with a single subwoofer as it's almost always impossible to optimally place the speakers for everything other than bass AND also get them in the best location for bass.

I quickly read through the subwoofer and audiophile articles that were linked and it looks like his usual use of generalizations and overly wordy approach to ultimately not say much of anything. There's also the ever present pleas to use his Amazon, B&H, Adorama, etc. links and requests for money via PayPal so he can buy water and bread for his family. Then you look at the pictures of his family in what appears to be a rather elegant home and a Mercedes... I don't begrudge him making a good living, it's just that his approach to begging for money seems a bit disingenuous to me.
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post #1620 of 3013 Old 11-14-2017, 05:28 PM
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I actually disagree with the assertion that EVERYONE should have 2 subs as things like budget come into play. Just for instance, if the budget is limited, I'd much rather see someone buy 1 good sub than 2 mediocre subs. I'd also rather have a pair of excellent speakers (even if they're lacking at the lower frequencies) and no subwoofer if it comes to it; not because the bass would be better but because bass is only one part of the overall experience and IMHO subwoofers are one of those things that should be added AFTER you already have pretty good speakers. I definitely disagree with his assertion that a pair of big full-range speakers is better than going with a single subwoofer as it's almost always impossible to optimally place the speakers for everything other than bass AND also get them in the best location for bass.
While that may have been the title, the assertion was not that EVERYONE should have stereo subs. There is a clear demarcation made regarding recordings (2.0) with stereo bass and mono (such as LFE) bass. I like what is written about stereo bass, crossover points, and even audiophilia.

I'm not a photographer and I didn't realize that his writing was so maligned. My apologies.
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