Lyngdorf MP-50 | 12 Channel AV Processor; 9.1.6 with matrixed Wides and Top Middles - Page 57 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1681 of 3049 Old 11-28-2017, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
If you use REW with a Mac and via HDMI, that should be easy. Go into audio setup, midi or something and then configure channels. Then you can choose which channels to route the signal to.
Thanks! I will try MIDI to measure all channels (once I get my room back :-)

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Originally Posted by logdog333 View Post
I use one LFE output which afterwards is distributed to 3 channels in external DSP. So I used only main LFE output in Lyngdorf's setup menu.
In this setup all channels, but FL and FR, crossed to LFE at 100 Hz were rolled off at 35 Hz down with 20 dB\octave slope... FL and FR stayed flat down to 16 Hz.
Strange... I will check what I get!

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post #1682 of 3049 Old 11-28-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by giftedmd View Post
I have the same setup and get Atmos without issues (I have a roku ultra). What are your audio settings on the Roku? I just leave it on auto detect (top setting) and it seems to get it right. Have you tried any other movies or the Atmos demo videos?

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Both audio settings are Auto Dolby. The Atmos test files will not play in Atmos. What follows is an "enlightened" conversation with Roku Tech Support.

06:12:07 PM) Visitor 29382397 is now known as John.
(06:12:07 PM) John: I attempted to play a Dolby Atmos title "Lucy" from Vudu. The Vudu info playback screen stated Atmos. however the processor only indicated Dolby Digital+ as the audio source. I have set the Roku for Auto Dolby Digital, DTS in the setup menu. Is this a known issue?
(06:49:36 PM) *** Jaime joined the chat ***
(06:50:17 PM) Jaime: Hi there thank you for contacting Roku support.
(06:50:35 PM) John: OK!
(06:51:33 PM) Jaime: May I ask for the serial number of your Roku device?
(06:52:21 PM) John: It is in the equipment room about 50' away. It is a registered unit.
(06:54:19 PM) Jaime: Does the movie wont play?
(06:54:52 PM) John: No, the movie plays in 4k but without the Atmos data.
(06:55:26 PM) Jaime: I see, what is your Roku device?
(06:55:35 PM) John: Ultra
(06:55:51 PM) Jaime: And the resolution of your TV?
(06:56:08 PM) John: Full 4k 60
(06:57:58 PM) Jaime: I see, so without the Atmos data it wont play 4k?
(06:58:21 PM) John: Jamie..I am out of time. I must go!

John


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post #1683 of 3049 Old 11-28-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by netroamer View Post
My speaker setup is 7.1.4. I have no problem with HD or 4k Atmos or DTS-X BR titles. This appears to be only a Vudu/Roku/MP50 issue.
John, I don't have a 4k capable Roku but my understanding is that OS8 enabled 2160p24 output from the Roku.

The MP-50 doesn't seem to like 2160p60 in many scenarios right now (even <300MHz). Please try switching to 24p output on your Roku.
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post #1684 of 3049 Old 11-28-2017, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by netroamer View Post
I tried to play a 4k Atmos stream of Lucy from Vudu through the Roku Ultra. The Vudu output info clearly states that it is sending Atmos, however the MP-50 only shows Dolby Plus Legacy and a 5.1.0 output.
I vaguely remember (or imagined) a Legacy setting in which the Atmos metadata is not processed. Try changing post-processing to None or Dolby Surround. If it shows Legacy under post-processing then there is the problem.
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post #1685 of 3049 Old 11-28-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I vaguely remember (or imagined) a Legacy setting in which the Atmos metadata is not processed. Try changing post-processing to None or Dolby Surround. If it shows Legacy under post-processing then there is the problem.
Are you still happy with the MP-50 after having it for a few months?

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post #1686 of 3049 Old 11-28-2017, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I vaguely remember (or imagined) a Legacy setting in which the Atmos metadata is not processed. Try changing post-processing to None or Dolby Surround. If it shows Legacy under post-processing then there is the problem.
I was on None, however changing it to Dolby Surround opened up the Atmos feed. It should not be this way as the MP-50 sees the Atmos feed with processing set to None for BR discs.

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post #1687 of 3049 Old 11-28-2017, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
John, I don't have a 4k capable Roku but my understanding is that OS8 enabled 2160p24 output from the Roku.

The MP-50 doesn't seem to like 2160p60 in many scenarios right now (even <300MHz). Please try switching to 24p output on your Roku.
The Roku/Radiance Pro/Sony 5000 setup hated the native rate option on the Roku with constant short and long duration blackouts.

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post #1688 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Ducky, it's not clear to me that the quote from Lyngdorf explicitly claims that RP runs a second calibration to measure mains+subs as a means to correct the subwoofer splice, à la ARCOS. Could be a simple calculation within RP that matches main corrected response to sub(s) ditto, just like everyone else except ARCOS. IME not all are created equal, however, e.g. I always have to futz with sub delay in Audyssey to get a smooth crossover, but I've never had to do so with Trinnov.

Perhaps a handy RP owner can confirm or deny a second, combined calibration run?
Just confirmed directly with Lyngdorf that the speaker + sub(if selected) for each channel is measured and corrected as one speaker. So the splice is part of the Roomperfect correction.

It doesn't do an 'after' measurement though.

This might explain some of the rave reviews it always gets for blending the mains + sub.

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post #1689 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Just confirmed directly with Lyngdorf that the speaker + sub(if selected) for each channel is measured and corrected as one speaker. So the splice is part of the Roomperfect correction.

It doesn't do an 'after' measurement though.

This might explain some of the rave reviews it always gets for blending the mains + sub.
This implies MP-50 just uses the sub's settings and blends in with that (other than the sub volume adjustment)
Thus, one should pay very close attention to the sub's settings prior to using RP.
While stating the obvious...it was unconfirmed, although what else could it be?

Since one of my subs is a REL, it was adjusted to blend with the mains prior to RP.
On my two other older Velodyne's they were adjusted with internal RC's.

Unsure if I should remove all sub settings other than crossover, and redo RP.
Since I didn't have an SVHS on-screen input, I just left them as they were (which I have no idea as they were adjusted when I lived in SoCal).

However, as I am really happy with the RP results, why tinker?
....except that is what many of us just do...
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Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
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Last edited by normandia; 11-29-2017 at 09:07 AM.
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post #1690 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
This implies MP-50 just uses the sub's settings and blends in with that (other than the sub volume adjustment)
How so? If it sweeps the sub + sat together, it also applies EQ based on the combined response. So it would set levels and EQ the entire channel's frequency range including the sub.

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post #1691 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
How so? If it sweeps the sub + sat together, it also applies EQ based on the combined response. So it would set levels and EQ the entire channel including the sub.
Yep, I should have reread what I posted.
Thus there is no need to undo any pre-RP sub corrections as they are accounted for, although superfluous.

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
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post #1692 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 09:49 AM
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I remember reading about it not being a good idea to mix XLR and RCA connections (gain issues?) I'm thinking of using an existing amp with RCAs for the ceiling speakers, the rest would be XLR.

Anyone currently doing this?

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post #1693 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
Thus there is no need to undo any pre-RP sub corrections as they are accounted for, although superfluous.
Not quite sure about that... Due to the initial gain adjustment + level matching in the digital domain, done as the first step in RP (according to Lyngdorf), I think it is still important to do some "reasonable" adjustment of subs before RP if you can. At least I found that to be the case with my four "oversized" SVS subs in my small room.

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Last edited by arisholm; 11-29-2017 at 03:07 PM. Reason: clarification
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post #1694 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 10:19 AM
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Agree, just hoping. Other than crossover, what might you consider "reasonable" to mean?
Of course that depends on the sub.

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
FR: Marantz 8802A (and/or 7703), Sony XBR 4k TV, Meridian A350 LCR onwall, Dali in-wall surrounds, Atmos Martin Logan in-ceiling, REL sub, Oppo 105 (and/or 103), DTV, AppleTV, Sony 4k Media Server.
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post #1695 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Just confirmed directly with Lyngdorf that the speaker + sub(if selected) for each channel is measured and corrected as one speaker. So the splice is part of the Roomperfect correction.

Does this blending occur if the sub is on the LFE channel, or only if Front and/or Rear subs are used?

Noah
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post #1696 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 10:25 PM
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Are you still happy with the MP-50 after having it for a few months?
I'm still trying to work out some of the limitations I've found with Lyngdorf. If you choose a 12 channel Atmos config other than standard 7.1.4 you become limited in auxiliary subwoofer outputs/total outputs.

5.1.4 + WIDES (7.1.4) = 2 aux subs
5.1.6 = 2 aux subs
9.1.2 = 0 aux subs

In my scenario with 5.1.4 + WIDES + matrixed TOP MIDS I am not able to utilize stereo subs. As all the outouts are used (except REAR SURR which cannot be reassigned… at least not at this time).

I am also not happy that I had to buy a HDFury Vertex because the MP-50 won't pass all 60fps content ≥300MHz/10.2Gbps like it should. This is after being told that 18Gbps were not stable. I replaced a 2015 Marantz AV7702mkII with the MP-50 and introduced HDMI issues where there were none. The only HDR that passes through the MP-50 is 24p (eveb 1080p60 HDR10 is not passing).

I'm actually hoping that Lyngsorf decides to rectify this by oferring free upgrades to HDMI 2.1 to rectify this. Why waste resources on a chipset that was outdated before it was even released?

I do find the SQ worth the hassles of the Lyngdorf vs D+M. I just cannot go back to Audyssey in my media room (although I am running Audyssey in the den and bedroom).
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post #1697 of 3049 Old 11-29-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'm still trying to work out some of the limitations I've found with Lyngdorf. If you choose a 12 channel Atmos config other than standard 7.1.4 you become limited in auxiliary subwoofer outputs/total outputs.

5.1.4 + WIDES (7.1.4) = 2 aux subs
5.1.6 = 2 aux subs
9.1.2 = 0 aux subs

In my scenario with 5.1.4 + WIDES + matrixed TOP MIDS I am not able to utilize stereo subs. As all the outouts are used (except REAR SURR which cannot be reassigned… at least not at this time).

I am also not happy that I had to buy a HDFury Vertex because the MP-50 won't pass all 60fps content ≥300MHz/10.2Gbps like it should. This is after being told that 18Gbps were not stable. I replaced a 2015 Marantz AV7702mkII with the MP-50 and introduced HDMI issues where there were none. The only HDR that passes through the MP-50 is 24p (eveb 1080p60 HDR10 is not passing).

I'm actually hoping that Lyngsorf decides to rectify this by oferring free upgrades to HDMI 2.1 to rectify this. Why waste resources on a chipset that was outdated before it was even released?

I do find the SQ worth the hassles of the Lyngdorf vs D+M. I just cannot go back to Audyssey in my media room (although I am running Audyssey in the den and bedroom).
thats kind of Epic Marc. 10 grand and the basic function of uhd hdr passthrough is a nogo?
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post #1698 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
thats kind of Epic Marc. 10 grand and the basic function of uhd hdr passthrough is a nogo?
60fps HDR pass-through is a no go. 24fps works fine, including Dolby Vision.

I purchased the MP-50 knowing that the chipset was limited to 300MHz/18Gbps. Also knowing that Lyngdorf's core competence is audio, not video.
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post #1699 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'm still trying to work out some of the limitations I've found with Lyngdorf. If you choose a 12 channel Atmos config other than standard 7.1.4 you become limited in auxiliary subwoofer outputs/total outputs.

5.1.4 + WIDES (7.1.4) = 2 aux subs
5.1.6 = 2 aux subs
9.1.2 = 0 aux subs

In my scenario with 5.1.4 + WIDES + matrixed TOP MIDS I am not able to utilize stereo subs. As all the outouts are used (except REAR SURR which cannot be reassigned… at least not at this time).

I am also not happy that I had to buy a HDFury Vertex because the MP-50 won't pass all 60fps content ≥300MHz/10.2Gbps like it should. This is after being told that 18Gbps were not stable. I replaced a 2015 Marantz AV7702mkII with the MP-50 and introduced HDMI issues where there were none. The only HDR that passes through the MP-50 is 24p (eveb 1080p60 HDR10 is not passing).

I'm actually hoping that Lyngsorf decides to rectify this by oferring free upgrades to HDMI 2.1 to rectify this. Why waste resources on a chipset that was outdated before it was even released?

I do find the SQ worth the hassles of the Lyngdorf vs D+M. I just cannot go back to Audyssey in my media room (although I am running Audyssey in the den and bedroom).
Thanks for the info! I don't have 4k and don't plan too until my TV dies. So all I really care about is audio.

It would be nice to have the option to assign LFE + redirected bass subs to the Aux outputs. That way you can time align multiple subs without using another device.

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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Does this blending occur if the sub is on the LFE channel, or only if Front and/or Rear subs are used?
I didn't ask that specifically, but it only makes sense that however the subs are assigned to the mains, that's what will be active for the channel measurement and calibration.

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post #1701 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 12:26 PM
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I didn't ask that specifically, but it only makes sense that however the subs are assigned to the mains, that's what will be active for the channel measurement and calibration.

Yes, but it's not clear to me that when using only the LFE channel, it acts as assigned to the mains.

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post #1702 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 12:45 PM
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Yes, but it's not clear to me that when using only the LFE channel, it acts as assigned to the mains.
Since LFE is 'LFE + Redirected bass', then it's part of the sweep for each non-full-range main.

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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Since LFE is 'LFE + Redirected bass', then it's part of the sweep for each non-full-range main.

Good, thanks.

Is this literally true in that when the LFE channel is being excited during setup, the mains are also, or just internally based on analyzing the combined measurements (meaning the timing/phase of mains relative to LFE had to have been kept track of)?

Noah
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post #1704 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Good, thanks.

Is this literally true in that when the LFE channel is being excited during setup, the mains are also, or just internally based on analyzing the combined measurements (meaning the timing/phase of mains relative to LFE had to have been kept track of)?
Yes, according to them it sweeps each channel as the sub(s) + speaker and then creates a filter based on the response for both of them.

It's a pretty big deal if true and would make it the only one of it's kind (below ARCOS). This is the functionality that advanced users want from Dirac, Audy and the other single-speaker EQ solutions.
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post #1705 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 02:02 PM
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Yes, according to them it sweeps each channel as the sub(s) + speaker and then creates a filter based on the response for both of them.

It's a pretty big deal if true...

It certainly is; any owner that can verify?

Noah
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post #1706 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Yes, according to them it sweeps each channel as the sub(s) + speaker and then creates a filter based on the response for both of them.

It's a pretty big deal if true and would make it the only one of it's kind (below ARCOS). This is the functionality that advanced users want from Dirac, Audy and the other single-speaker EQ solutions.
Yes, but some controversy exists as to whether channel correction or speaker correction is the right approach, cf. discussions in Stereophile.
But personally I prefer the Lyngdorf approach after trying both.
However, you can do this to some extent with Dirac as well: both with some of the MiniDSP-implementations and with the PC/Mac versions of Dirac Live, where you *can* calibrate the combined result of the speakers for each channel (when Dirac is sending the test signal and performing the corrections "before" external bass management or crossovers in the processing chain). One of the arguments against such an approach is that proper impulse response correction will suffer if subs and (different) mains are in different locations (and they will be:-). Not sure if I have completely understood all the arguments though :-)

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Last edited by arisholm; 11-30-2017 at 02:48 PM.
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post #1707 of 3049 Old 11-30-2017, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by arisholm View Post
One of the arguments against such an approach is that proper impulse response correction will suffer if subs and (different) mains are in different locations.

It seems to me that properly combined mains and subs will be in phase at XO, giving optimum impulse response.

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post #1708 of 3049 Old 12-01-2017, 04:23 AM
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Questions:-
Does Room Perfect electronically/acoustically measure the distances/delays to all connected speakers?
Does RP calculate/set the optimum crossover frequency for each group/pair of speakers?
Does RP measure the full range response of all mains/satellites/sub-woofers?
Does RP select the optimum crossover slope to suit each speaker group/pair response?
Does the user have to pre-select the speaker groupings that will employ each sub-woofer channel (LFE, AUX1, AUX2, etc)?

Curious, and regards, Mike.

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post #1709 of 3049 Old 12-01-2017, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
Questions:-
Does Room Perfect electronically/acoustically measure the distances/delays to all connected speakers?
Does RP calculate/set the optimum crossover frequency for each group/pair of speakers?
Does RP measure the full range response of all mains/satellites/sub-woofers?
Does RP select the optimum crossover slope to suit each speaker group/pair response?
Does the user have to pre-select the speaker groupings that will employ each sub-woofer channel (LFE, AUX1, AUX2, etc)?

Curious, and regards, Mike.
No, no ,yes,unknown, yes.

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post #1710 of 3049 Old 12-01-2017, 07:45 AM
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No, no ,yes,unknown, yes.
Thanks for the information.
So the user/calibrator has to manually enter distances? How do they account for the electronic delays created by the DSP devices used in 'most' powered sub-woofers (manufacturers employ them to shape/extend the natural driver's response - that if often affected by simply putting it a box)?

So if RP does full sweeps of each channel individually, does it also do sweeps of combined main/subs, sat/subs, in order to calculate the overall correction filters that include both mains & subs - or are the filters based on mathematically combined responses?

Can you alter crossovers after RP? Do you have to repeat the calibration?

Regards, Mike.
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