Lyngdorf MP-50 | 12 Channel AV Processor; 9.1.6 with matrixed Wides and Top Middles - Page 94 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2791 of 3062 Old 05-04-2019, 06:28 AM
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Can anyone PM me what kind of street price I would expect for one of these?
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post #2792 of 3062 Old 05-04-2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Extreman View Post
My configuration is 7.1.2 with top middle.

I understand that top mid is matrix-generated from top-front and top-rear, however it is unclear to me which MD-50 physical XLR output connector I would use for connection to my speaker amp. I cannot see this from the manual, however it might be clear from the setup in the app?
Matrix generation only occurs once you exceed 12 rendered channels.

This should help:
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post #2793 of 3062 Old 05-05-2019, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
^^ sent you a PM
Hi, can you also pm me with the street price?

Thanks
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post #2794 of 3062 Old 05-05-2019, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mj13young View Post
Hi, can you also pm me with the street price?

Thanks
Same here, please.

Bryston SP4/ATI AT527/Panasonic DP-UB9000/LG OLED 65E6V
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post #2795 of 3062 Old 05-08-2019, 11:14 AM
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Some may have seen that I listed my MP-50 in the classifieds. This is only because @madhuski listed his Bryston SP4 (Storm rebadge) after picking up a Trinnov A16. If he sells the SP4 to someone else I will remove my listing.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-a...omperfect.html

I am not unhappy with the MP-50. It just lacks some flexibility that the Storm posseses. 12ch discrete processing vs 16ch being the main one.
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post #2796 of 3062 Old 05-08-2019, 11:30 AM
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Can I understand, with the PS4 you will have fun really.
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post #2797 of 3062 Old 05-08-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Some may have seen that I listed my MP-50 in the classifieds. This is only because @madhuski listed his Bryston SP4 (Storm rebadge) after picking up a Trinnov A16. If he sells the SP4 to someone else I will remove my listing.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-a...omperfect.html

I am not unhappy with the MP-50. It just lacks some flexibility that the Storm posseses. 12ch discrete processing vs 16ch being the main one.
Have you heard the Bryston? Do you know how the two units compare sonically? Would going from RoomPerfect to Dirac be a positive move?
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post #2798 of 3062 Old 05-08-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
...Would going from RoomPerfect to Dirac be a positive move?

Ditto - same question?


Dave
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post #2799 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
Have you heard the Bryston? Do you know how the two units compare sonically?
I have not heard the Bryston specifically, but I have heard the Storm several times and even the Focal Astral 16. I should have the Bryston by Friday. It will be interesting to directly compare.
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Would going from RoomPerfect to Dirac be a positive move?
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Ditto - same question?
Going from RoomPerfect to DL is going to be a lateral move at best. To get the most out of RoomPerfect you should adhere to Lyngdorf's parameters for speakers and subwoofers placement.

Share more info about your room and system and perhaps I can offer more.
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post #2800 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I have not heard the Bryston specifically, but I have heard the Storm several times and even the Focal Astral 16. I should have the Bryston by Friday. It will be interesting to directly compare.
Going from RoomPerfect to DL is going to be a lateral move at best. To get the most out of RoomPerfect you should adhere to Lyngdorf's parameters for speakers and subwoofers placement.

Share more info about your room and system and perhaps I can offer more.

Hi Marc,


I think you might have misunderstood - at least for my question. I'm not asking for me, since I already know that RP does a much better job in my room than DL. I was asking for you - do you think that going away from RP and into DL will get you improved sonics? Otherwise, not sure of why to go away from the MP-50. (unless it's just for the fun of trying processors, which I totally understand :-)


Dave
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post #2801 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I have not heard the Bryston specifically, but I have heard the Storm several times and even the Focal Astral 16. I should have the Bryston by Friday. It will be interesting to directly compare.
Going from RoomPerfect to DL is going to be a lateral move at best. To get the most out of RoomPerfect you should adhere to Lyngdorf's parameters for speakers and subwoofers placement.

Share more info about your room and system and perhaps I can offer more.
I'll be interested in your comparison and will be following your experiment so that I can hopefully learn from your experience. My current room layout does not adhere to Lyngdorf's speaker and subwoofer placement parameters (my subs are in the rear of the room closer to the MLP), but we plan to get a larger house sometime soon and am mostly thinking about the future. I plan to pick our next home that can accommodate the front corner loaded subs outside the R&L. I am most interested in the best sonics possible (HT and 2 channel music) and look forward to your findings.

Last edited by BassMojo; 05-20-2019 at 07:26 PM.
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post #2802 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
I'll be interested in your comparison and will be following your experiment so that I can hopefully learn from your experience. My current room layout does not adhere to Lyngdorf's speaker and subwoofer placement parameters (subs in the rear of the room closer to the MLP), but we plan to get a larger house sometime soon and am mostly thinking about the future. I plan to pick our next home that can accommodate the front corner loaded subs outside the R&L. I am most interested in the best sonics possible (HT and 2 channel music) and look forward to your findings.

So, you're saying that Lyngdorf recommends subs to be in the rear of the room? I have one sub in the front left corner, and RP does much better than DL for my room. Perhaps Lyngdorf is describing what is ideal, but not saying that it won't work well for a sub in the front of a room.



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post #2803 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
So, you're saying that Lyngdorf recommends subs to be in the rear of the room? I have one sub in the front left corner, and RP does much better than DL for my room. Perhaps Lyngdorf is describing what is ideal, but not saying that it won't work well for a sub in the front of a room.

Dave
Hi Dave,
Sorry if I muddied the waters. I do not own the MP-50 (yet). It is my understanding that Lyngdorf recommends front corner placement of dual subs to function as stereo bass and LFE. I currently have dual subs located in the rear of my room and am running an Anthem AVM60. Regardless of placement options, I plan to pick up the MP-50 when the new board releases and will still be restricted to running my subs in the rear LFE at our current home. When we get another home, I will purposely chose one were my HT will allow front corner subs. I hope that helps provide clarity.
Brian

Edit: I edited by previous post for clarity. Thanks.
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post #2804 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The Lyngdorf MP-50 is being moved downstairs to the den (5.3.2).
Spoiler!


I submitted two feature requests to Lyngdorf. One to allow speaker layout changes without restarting RoomPerfect. The other to allow remapping of the XLR outputs. Lyngdorf will not be offering either option. (I will post more details in the MP-50 thread.)

I must admit that I am disappointed. The Lyngdorf is a fine piece and just lacking the flexibility I expect in a 16ch processor. The European and Americn approaches to home cinema differ a bit. Lyngdorf reflects this.
In the MP-50, whenever a speaker layout is changed, RoomPerfect must be restarted. This makes it difficult to compare layouts and impossible to A/B compare discrete processing vs matrix summed (Wides & Top Mids). One cannot have discrete Wides for Atmos and matrixed Wides for Auro3D (for example) without either discarding RoomPerfect or maintaing several configs and rebooting the unit (~2 mins) each time.

Because the XLR outputs cannot be remapped (i.e. Wides in place of Surr Back) any layout using any one of the following speaker locations will limit or eliminate the option of using corner subwoofers/BWs:
Wides
Top Middles
Height Center
Top/VoG

The use of BWs (Boundary Woofers not Big Women) is a core pillar of the Lyngdorf/RoomPerfect philosophy and design.

Take a simple 5.1 system. Add the 4 overhead Auro3D Heights, Center Height and Top/Vog and you have the standard Auro3D 11.1 config/layout (which also works well for Atmos & Dts:X). Can you add 4 BWs? No, only two.
If you want to add Front Wides (7.1.4) or Top Mids (5.1.6) for Atmos you can. But how many BWs can be supported now? Zero, none, nada, Zilch, ∅.
As both a power user and integrator, these limitations are somewhat puzzling and disappointing for a $10k 16ch processor.

Take the above scenario but what if we could use Top Mids (Atmos) as Top/VoG for Auro3D? Makes perfect sense but not on the MP-50. These scenarios and more are simply executed on StormAudio, Acurus and Trinnov. The upcoming Monoprice HTP-1 should also have this functionality at a fraction of the cost.

I took a leap of faith on the MP-50. I wanted to see what RoomPerfect was all about despite it utilizing an obselete video chipset (HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 support/features but limited to HDMI 1.4 speeds, 10.2 Gbps). It was to just tide me over until the Emotiva RMC-1 or Marantz AV8805 came out.

I still have much love for the MP-50. but I am advancing and she has become stagnant. She's content where she is in life. She dropped out with only two classes left but she just won't complete her degree. There are places I want to take her but she won't get in. I don't want to cut her loose but my needs aren't being met. Juggling two gets expensive.

For now I will move the MP-50 downstairs to the den. It becomes my secondary and the NAD will have to go. We'll see how RoomPerfect performs vs DL in this large untreated space.
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post #2805 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
why to go away from the MP-50.
Flexibility & future capability. Auro3D 13.1, 16ch Atmos decoding, Dts X Pro (16ch), channel monitoring, and so on.

The user's manual can give you a lot of insight into what is possible. Much better documentation than Lyngdorf.

http://support.bryston.com/downloads...R1-2%20web.pdf
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post #2806 of 3062 Old 05-20-2019, 08:24 PM
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We'll see how RoomPerfect performs vs DL in this large untreated space.
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post #2807 of 3062 Old 05-21-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Flexibility & future capability. Auro3D 13.1, 16ch Atmos decoding, Dts X Pro (16ch), channel monitoring, and so on.

Re DTS X Pro, would that require adding to the discrete channel count?

I thought allowing both wides and back surrounds was an upmixing thing.

Noah
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post #2808 of 3062 Old 05-21-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Re DTS X Pro, would that require adding to the discrete channel count?



I thought allowing both wides and back surrounds was an upmixing thing.
It is upmixing. Neural X is the upmixer but it is a part of Dts:X decoding as well. Neural X as part of Dts:X is option you can toggle on/off on some SSPs. It engages speaker positions other than the standard 7.1.4 (and does a great job IMO). Neural X operates very much like Neo X and properly decided Neo X tracks (i.e. Dredd). It is why Wides or Top Mids are engaged with Dts:X or Neural X when configured. However, it is currently limited to 11.1 channels. Pro should expand this to at least 15.1, if not higher.

I expect Dolby to follow the lead and update Dolby Surround similarly.
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post #2809 of 3062 Old 05-21-2019, 04:23 PM
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I should clarify that I took

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Flexibility & future capability. Auro3D 13.1, 16ch Atmos decoding, Dts X Pro (16ch), channel monitoring, and so on.
to mean that the MP-50 not getting DTS X Pro was one of the reasons you were abandoning it for your main system.

But now it's sounding like that might not be the case, because DTS X Pro is a variation on upmixing and wouldn't add to the number of discrete channels - right?

Noah
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post #2810 of 3062 Old 05-21-2019, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
I should clarify that I took







to mean that the MP-50 not getting DTS X Pro was one of the reasons you were abandoning it for your main system.



But now it's sounding like that might not be the case, because DTS X Pro is a variation on upmixing and wouldn't add to the number of discrete channels - right?
Lyngdorf is not getting it my friends (it does require discrete processing channels). The only updates coming to the MP-50 are the HDMI 2.0 upgrade and potentially speaker distance/delay auto-detection for RoomPerfect. Otherwise what you see now is what you get.
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Last edited by Marc Alexander; 05-21-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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post #2811 of 3062 Old 05-21-2019, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Lyngdorf is not getting it my friends (it does require discrete processing channels).

Hmm, well at least there's the matrixed wides.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The only updates coming to the MP-50 are the HDMI 2.0 upgrade and potentially speaker distance/delay auto-detection for RoomPerfect. Otherwise what you see now is what you get.

I'm a bit puzzled by this - if true, isn't that something they'd keep to themselves?

Also, it seems like a rather young product to be stopping development so soon, unless they're pulling the plug because it hasn't been profitable, or there's a successor in the wings.

Noah
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post #2812 of 3062 Old 05-21-2019, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
I'm a bit puzzled by this - if true, isn't that something they'd keep to themselves?
Contact [email protected] with any questions.
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Also, it seems like a rather young product to be stopping development so soon, unless they're pulling the plug because it hasn't been profitable, or there's a successor in the wings.
How do you improve on Perfect?

I was told that there is no successor in development at this time.

The MP-50 may seem young but the platform is not so young. The McIntosh MX-160 and Lyngdorf Audio MP-50 are offspring of the Steinway Lyngdorf P200 processor. The MX-160 and MP-50 receive trickle-down features developed for the P200. Unless there is demand from the dealer channels (practically non-existent in the U.S.) there is likely not much impetus for development.

It is kikely that all of Lyngdorf's focus is on the MXA-8400 amplifier which is truly revolutionary! Start saving your $$ now. https://lyngdorf.com/news-pre-launch...dorf-mxa-8400/
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post #2813 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
DTS X Pro is a variation on upmixing and wouldn't add to the number of discrete channels - right?
The "Pro" in DTS:X Pro signifies more than 11 outputs. Nothing more. Those additional outputs can be fed by discrete channels and/or upmixed channels and/or audio objects.
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post #2814 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The "Pro" in DTS:X Pro signifies more than 11 outputs. Nothing more. Those additional outputs can be fed by discrete channels and/or upmixed channels and/or audio objects.

Yes, I was just going to say (after reading your illuminating posts in the multi-AVR thread) that wides 7+W.x.4 ought to be doable via DTS X Pro upmixing.

So for the MP-50 it would seem that there's a way, though perhaps not the will.

Noah

Last edited by noah katz; 05-22-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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post #2815 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 09:57 AM
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So for the MP-50 it would seem that there's a way, though perhaps not the will.
This is why referring to an internal Y-splitter as matrixing can be misleading. The MP-50 has the DSP horsepower to split a channel to 2 speakers (e.g., Side channel split to Side speaker and Wide speaker, Front channel split to Front speaker and Wide speaker). But does it have the additional processing power needed to run a 2-input 3-output matrix process on a Side channel and Front channel to extract a centre output to feed the Wide channel between them, as the DTS:X decoder does? And do that matrix process simultaneously for the other side as well. And two more times simultaneously for the Top Middles? IF not, then there isn't a way (even if there is the will).
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post #2816 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 10:41 AM
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It is kikely that all of Lyngdorf's focus is on the MXA-8400 amplifier which is truly revolutionary!
Looks like a refinement of his previous n-core design: https://www.purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/

More from the designer: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/clas...inement-3.html

I think they might have NAD on board as a licensee.

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post #2817 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
...But does it have the additional processing power needed to run a 2-input 3-output matrix process on a Side channel and Front channel to extract a centre output to feed the Wide channel between them, as the DTS:X decoder does? And do that matrix process simultaneously for the other side as well. And two more times simultaneously for the Top Middles? IF not, then there isn't a way (even if there is the will).

Good question.

I only need 9.1.4, so that reduces the load, but Lyngdorf may be less likely to bother with half-measures.

I'll ask them.
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post #2818 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
This is why referring to an internal Y-splitter as matrixing can be misleading. The MP-50 has the DSP horsepower to split a channel to 2 speakers (e.g., Side channel split to Side speaker and Wide speaker, Front channel split to Front speaker and Wide speaker). But does it have the additional processing power needed to run a 2-input 3-output matrix process on a Side channel and Front channel to extract a centre output to feed the Wide channel between them, as the DTS:X decoder does? And do that matrix process simultaneously for the other side as well. And two more times simultaneously for the Top Middles? IF not, then there isn't a way (even if there is the will).
IIRC, it has more SHARCs(8) than the Storm. But I think they also have TIs for decoding.

Either way, I have no aspirations of higher channel count.

The MP-50 is perfect for someone who just wants to set it up and then watch movies/music. If tweaking is a big part of the hobby and you want to change speakers, formats, setups, etc.. then the Storm or Trinnov would be a much better choice.
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post #2819 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 01:04 PM
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I'll ask them.

I got a fast (automated) response, so might get an answer as soon as Friday:


Flemming Smith
User - 22/05/2019 19:38

Hi

i am out of the office until May 24th

I will get back to you a.s.a.p.

SL AUDIO

/Flemming



Noah Katz
User - 22/05/2019 19:37

Hello,

I'm considering purchase of the MP-50 but I want a processor that supports DTS:X Pro for its support of Front Wide speakers.

I'm aware that the MP-50 supports Wides, but my understanding is that it's just mixing of the Fronts and Side Surrounds, not true matrix extraction like DTS:X Pro will do, which for example could produce a pure Wide signal with silent Fronts and Side Surrounds.

Are the MP-50's DSP's capable of handling the additional processing requirements to support DTS:X Pro?

If so, do you plan on adding it?

I can only accommodate 9.1.4, so that would be sufficient for me.

Thanks for listening.

Noah Katz

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post #2820 of 3062 Old 05-22-2019, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
I got a fast (automated) response, so might get an answer as soon as Friday:

I'm aware that the MP-50 supports Wides, but my understanding is that it's just mixing of the Fronts and Side Surrounds, not true matrix extraction like DTS:X Pro will do, which for example could produce a pure Wide signal with silent Fronts and Side Surrounds.
Just a detail (that he'll probably tell you), the MP-50 does support native wides as long as you're using 11 channels or less. It only starts matrixing once you go over that limit.

I agree with Marc, I just don't see them devoting resources to something that will surely be a niche requirement/desire in an already very niche market.

Lyngdorf is all about having a polished product with a beautiful interface that's easy to use. They're never going to do something like a VNC interface with hundreds of customization options. That's one of the reasons why it's perfect for me and the only product that's stopped me from the seemingly endless tail-chasing of upgrades and optimization.
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Last edited by duckymomo; 05-22-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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