Lyngdorf MP-50 | 12 Channel AV Processor; 9.1.6 with matrixed Wides and Top Middles - Page 95 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2821 of 3050 Old 05-22-2019, 06:53 PM
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I’m still puzzled with the sub delay using REW and RP. I disabled RP and found the delay of the subs and set the distance of the LFE (delay included). When I check REW post RP calibration it says the delay is way off. Am I supposed to add the delay distance after RP has been completed? I wish this was a transparent process in what to do to correctly integrate sub delay
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post #2822 of 3050 Old 05-22-2019, 11:31 PM
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hey guys

Im planing to get a MP-50 for my movie watching and 2 channel listening. I will read up on the forum and the manual but wanted to get a quick answer before diving deeper to the manual. I all ready bought my speakers it will be a 7.4.4 configuration. Can i have this set up with the mp-50 when watching a Dolby Atmos movie or DTS:X ? I wanted to get Stereo bass i will have the L/R subs in the front corner and 2 subs in the back corner X-over at 40 hz and -6db than the 2 front subs. Can i individually time align my subs? or should i get a MiniDSP 2x4 HD?
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post #2823 of 3050 Old 05-22-2019, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by elvinps2626 View Post
hey guys



Im planing to get a MP-50 for my movie watching and 2 channel listening. I will read up on the forum and the manual but wanted to get a quick answer before diving deeper to the manual. I all ready bought my speakers it will be a 7.4.4 configuration. Can i have this set up with the mp-50 when watching a Dolby Atmos movie or DTS:X ? I wanted to get Stereo bass i will have the L/R subs in the front corner and 2 subs in the back corner X-over at 40 hz and -6db than the 2 front subs. Can i individually time align my subs? or should i get a MiniDSP 2x4 HD?
The short answer is yes, you don't need a MiniDSP (but you may still want one). What subs are you utilizing? Stereo bass does no good with a 40Hz crossover.
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post #2824 of 3050 Old 05-22-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
I’m still puzzled with the sub delay using REW and RP. I disabled RP and found the delay of the subs and set the distance of the LFE (delay included). When I check REW post RP calibration it says the delay is way off. Am I supposed to add the delay distance after RP has been completed? I wish this was a transparent process in what to do to correctly integrate sub delay
Are you saying that you set the distance/delay prior to running RoomPerfect? But everything is screwed up after running RoomPerfect? How does it sound.
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post #2825 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The short answer is yes, you don't need a MiniDSP (but you may still want one). What subs are you utilizing? Stereo bass does no good with a 40Hz crossover.
Im going to use 2 RBH SV-1212NR https://rbhsound.com/sv1212nr.php for my fronts they will be x-over at 80 hz and for my 2 backs subs RBH SV-12NR https://rbhsound.com/sv12nr.php. The backs will be to fill a dip i have on 40 hz range.
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post #2826 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Are you saying that you set the distance/delay prior to running RoomPerfect? But everything is screwed up after running RoomPerfect? How does it sound.
Yes....prior to running room perfect REW calculated a delay of 3.5 feet using the acoustical timing reference. This was measured with RP disabled and after the LFE levels were matched via RP menu. I added the delay distance to the measured distance and re-ran RP. When I checked it with REW it still had a substantial delay. How does it sound? The bass is louder than normal and I’m having a hard time getting it dialed in. My guess is that’s it’s due to RP thinking the subs are farther away than they actually are? The only way I can get the delay to 0 is by adding the delay distance after RP has been run. This doesn’t seem correct to me.
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post #2827 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 02:00 PM
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^^^ Would it be recommended to re-run RP then add the distance delay measurements from REW (taken post calibration) or with this mess of the blending with the mains?
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post #2828 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 02:51 PM
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^^^ Would it be recommended to re-run RP then add the distance delay measurements from REW (taken post calibration) or with this mess of the blending with the mains?
I think something is not right. Did you measure w/REW after distance/delay changes, before running RoomPerfect?

Change something in speaker config (natural rolloff) to make RoomPerfect reset.
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post #2829 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by elvinps2626 View Post
Im going to use 2 RBH SV-1212NR https://rbhsound.com/sv1212nr.php for my fronts they will be x-over at 80 hz and for my 2 backs subs RBH SV-12NR https://rbhsound.com/sv12nr.php. The backs will be to fill a dip i have on 40 hz range.
For this setup I recommend getting creative. To use stereo subs and still get LFE bass you cannot have LFE configured. Daisy chain both the front and rear subs as L & R aux subs. This will allow you to set the rear subs level 3-6 dB lower than the front subs (prior to running RoomPerfect) without screwing up bass management and LFE levels.
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post #2830 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I think something is not right. Did you measure w/REW after distance/delay changes, before running RoomPerfect?

Change something in speaker config (natural rolloff) to make RoomPerfect reset.
I did measure with REW after I changed the distances (with delay) prior to running RP and the delay was 0. After running RP the delay went back up to 3.5ft (roughly the same it was before I changed the initial distance).

I disabled RP initially by changing the crossovers in the speaker configuration causing it to go into bypass mode. I then ran REW with the actual measured distances to find the delay. I then added the delay to the distance to get the delay to 0. I then ran RP and checked the delay again with REW and it was at 3.5ft.
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post #2831 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
I did measure with REW after I changed the distances (with delay) prior to running RP and the delay was 0. After running RP the delay went back up to 3.5ft (roughly the same it was before I changed the initial distance).



I disabled RP initially by changing the crossovers in the speaker configuration causing it to go into bypass mode. I then ran REW with the actual measured distances to find the delay. I then added the delay to the distance to get the delay to 0. I then ran RP and checked the delay again with REW and it was at 3.5ft.
3.5ft is really negligeable. RoomPerfect's bass management is dynamic. Some of the standard REW measurements will not properly asses RoomPerfect. Try adjusting voicing.

What speakers & subs are you utilizing? How are they connected (aux or LFE)? How are they placed? Once I can see the full picture I'll be able to advise you better.
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post #2832 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
3.5ft is really negligeable. RoomPerfect's bass management is dynamic. Some of the standard REW measurements will not properly asses RoomPerfect. Try adjusting voicing.

What speakers & subs are you utilizing? How are they connected (aux or LFE)? How are they placed? Once I can see the full picture I'll be able to advise you better.


Thank you for the help! I’m using Martin Logan Motion 60XT and SVS PB13 Ultras (2). I’ve listed pictures of how it is set up. The Subs a connected via daisy chain on the LFE channel. I have the crossovers set at 80hz without natural rolloff and the LFE at 125hz. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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post #2833 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 04:15 PM
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The only updates coming to the MP-50 are the HDMI 2.0 upgrade and potentially speaker distance/delay auto-detection for RoomPerfect. Otherwise what you see now is what you get.
I forgot about Roon. I'm told that that the ability to setup the MP-50 as a Roon endpoint is coming. This is fairly significant IMO.
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post #2834 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 04:21 PM
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Thank you for the help! I’m using Martin Logan Motion 60XT and SVS PB13 Ultras (2). I’ve listed pictures of how it is set up. The Subs a connected via daisy chain on the LFE channel. I have the crossovers set at 80hz without natural rolloff and the LFE at 125hz. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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beautiful room, and kudos on the dog.

From one dog loving Minnesotan to another
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post #2835 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 04:25 PM
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I assume you time/phase-aligned the SVS subs prior to anything else, correct? How have you level matched them? I would set the nearfield sub 2-4dB lower at the MLP than the front corner. Have you tried with just the front corner sub on? RoomPerfect prefers corner loading of subs. You could try the rear sub in the rear left corner, or even stack it atop the front sub in the front left corner

The other thing to experiment with is the LFE crossover. Try setting that to 80Hz as well, it can help reduce perceived boominess. Lastly is to use voicing to dial it all in to your personal taste.
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post #2836 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I assume you time/phase-aligned the SVS subs prior to anything else, correct? How have you level matched them? I would set the nearfield sub 2-4dB lower at the MLP than the front corner. Have you tried with just the front corner sub on? RoomPerfect prefers corner loading of subs. You could try the rear sub in the rear left corner, or even stack it atop the front sub in the front left corner

The other thing to experiment with is the LFE crossover. Try setting that to 80Hz as well, it can help reduce perceived boominess. Lastly is to use voicing to dial it all in to your personal taste.
Thank you for the input! The subs are actually equal in distance at the mlp so I didn’t time/phase align them. I level matched the subs with the speakers via RP sub level. If I stacked them would I have less of an even response in the room or would you expect it to be slightly better? Thanks!
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beautiful room, and kudos on the dog.

From one dog loving Minnesotan to another
Thank you! I have two pups running around but don’t have a picture with both of them! We need our furry friends to keep us company in the cold winters
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For this setup I recommend getting creative. To use stereo subs and still get LFE bass you cannot have LFE configured. Daisy chain both the front and rear subs as L & R aux subs. This will allow you to set the rear subs level 3-6 dB lower than the front subs (prior to running RoomPerfect) without screwing up bass management and LFE levels.
That is awesome thanks for the help. I will do that, thank you so much
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post #2839 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 06:05 PM
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Thank you! I have two pups running around but don’t have a picture with both of them! We need our furry friends to keep us company in the cold winters

Here are my two - hence why none of my classifieds ads will ever say "kid free/pet free"







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Here are my two - hence why none of my classifieds ads will ever say "kid free/pet free"







Awesome room!!! Love the Dog chilling in his bed
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post #2841 of 3050 Old 05-23-2019, 10:04 PM
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Whoa, really?



So a reboot is necessary for switching between native Atmos and DTS:X soundtracks and matrixed wides on non-native ones?
Yes
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Why would RP need to be re-run, since in both cases the same speakers in the same positions are used?
You will have to ask [email protected]

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Matrix generation only occurs once you exceed 12 rendered channels.
and
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showt...php?p=58076454
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post #2842 of 3050 Old 05-24-2019, 08:33 AM
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Is anyone actually using Lyngdorf power amps with the mp-50?
I'm talking about the SDA-2400. I know they are stereo amps but still....

I have an mp-50 and I have 2 SDA-2400's. I'm still not sure to buy a multichannel amp like
the ATI ncore or buy more SDA's?

I really love the sound of the SDA-2400 but I will need 5 of them for a 5.2.4 system.
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Is anyone actually using Lyngdorf power amps with the mp-50?

I'm talking about the SDA-2400. I know they are stereo amps but still....



I have an mp-50 and I have 2 SDA-2400's. I'm still not sure to buy a multichannel amp like

the ATI ncore or buy more SDA's?



I really love the sound of the SDA-2400 but I will need 5 of them for a 5.2.4 system.
I would wait on the MXA-8400 personally https://lyngdorf.com/news-pre-launch...dorf-mxa-8400/
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post #2844 of 3050 Old 05-24-2019, 08:58 AM
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I would wait on the MXA-8400 personally https://lyngdorf.com/news-pre-launch...dorf-mxa-8400/
I know about that one but it's still a year away......
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I know about that one but it's still a year away......
I'm using Pascal-based D-Sonic.net amps.
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post #2846 of 3050 Old 05-24-2019, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
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Yes
You will have to ask [email protected]

I will.

Re the DTS:X Pro question, I got the below response:


------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi
the MP-50 handles 12 channels natively, and if the requested channel count is below 12, the front wides will be handled natively
- but as you request a total of 14 channels, the front wides will have to be matrixed

Best regards
Flemming Smith
Lyngdorf Audio
Best Regards,
-------------------------------------------------------------------


I see the problem - I was thinking that discrete meant native as opposed to upmixed, but it's the same as far as the MP-50 is concerned.

Noah

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post #2847 of 3050 Old 05-24-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I see the problem - I was thinking that discrete meant native as opposed to upmixed, but that doesn't matter to the MP-50.
I could live with this if it was easier to switch the matrixing on/off. I was willing to workaround it by maintaining separate configs and rebooting… for a time. But workarounds are usually temporary.

What do you think about it Noah? Let the wides matrix-sum and leave it for 9.1.4?
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post #2848 of 3050 Old 05-24-2019, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
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What do you think about it Noah? Let the wides matrix-sum and leave it for 9.1.4?

Well there's no way I'm going to go to the trouble to make the switch, and it would be irksome not to be able to hear the entire native soundtrack after all the trouble and expense I've gone to get the capability.

It's pushing me in the direction of the HTP-1, though it remains to be seen if it will get DTS:X Pro.

Here's what I wrote to Lyngdorf:


Ah, I see my mistake; I was thinking that because DTS:X Pro was creating the Wide channels by matrixing, they weren't discrete, but it's the same as far as the MP-50 is concerned.

Another question if I may:

I just learned that a reboot/re-run of RoomPerfect is needed to switch between matrixed Wides and discrete Wides.

This would be far too inconvenient for me to consider.

I suppose I could stay with matrixed at all times since native soundtracks are the minority of what's available, but that's not an appealing solution.

Can you explain why this is necessary?

In both cases the same speakers in the same positions are used, so presumably the same data is collected.

If that's the case, might there be a future update that eliminates this requirement?

Thanks again

Noah Katz

Noah
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post #2849 of 3050 Old 05-24-2019, 09:47 PM
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Size comparison: MP-50 vs SP4 (both units are 3RU):



The Byston & StormAudio chassis will be hard to fit in racks with shelves under 20" (depth).
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post #2850 of 3050 Old 05-25-2019, 12:56 AM
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They say that Focus 1 postion needs to be at ear hight. If the ears are below the back of the chair is it a poblem getting accurate readings for Focus 1 due to reflections from the back of the chair?

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Absolutly no connection with RapalloNZ
CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018
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