Will receivers ever come with 21st century remotes? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 111 Old 02-15-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
I guess its automatically assumed, that everyone has & uses one of these devices. (along with a $100+/month bill)
Au Contraire! If they assumed that, they wouldn't include a remote in the box!

Personally, I like options. I like the remote, I like the smart phone app, I'd prefer the remote to be RF

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post #62 of 111 Old 02-15-2017, 12:05 PM
 
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^Must have just barely made the delivery deadline!
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post #63 of 111 Old 02-15-2017, 12:14 PM
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That's the kind of damage that stems from IR remote anger.

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post #64 of 111 Old 02-15-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
...
Still wouldn’t this deactivated pre-pay device need to be online to get this “app” into it in the first place?
Yes. It's called wi-fi. Most homes have it.

I wasn't referring to the cheap(er) phones that are sold for ONLY pre-pay services. I use phones that are unlocked, can be used on post-paid or pre-paid services as I choose. The phone isn't in any way tied to the type of contract i have. :}

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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
... I don’t even upgrade my Blu-Ray player online, fearing it will end up being bricked by Samsung.
That happened to me. For realz.

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There is no difference between controlling via a app on your phone vs opening the web UI that most receivers have on your Chromebook. And a Chromebook is of course cheaper.
I fixed that for you. ^ Chromebooks are silly cheap, and easy to get and use.

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I haven’t programmed my White Rogers thermostat in probably a decade now I just run it full manual.
You could save an ungodly amount of money on HVAC costs by running a simple 7-day programmable thermostat. They're simple to use, and will figure out how long to heat/cool your home before your target temperature time, then start early to get it done.
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... Kind of a pricy remote though?
If you mean my costs for an unlocked smartphone, my point was that you have other choices for a working smartphone than either sign a two-year contract OR shell out hundreds of dollars. Deals on unlocked phones that you can use on any GSM carrier abound.

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Way overkill in my opinion for an entertainment remote (yes, I have a 7" tablet).

A simple 4"-4.5" phone would suffice. Not much more area than most physical remotes though a different shape.
At least in the case of the Yamaha app, it utilizes a larger screen for more controls. Most proper Android apps, for instance, will adapt to small, medium, and large screens. The app is till useful on a 7" screen because it shows cover art for what's playing, or the options, volume and remote flyout menus all fit on the screen. I gotta hand it to Yamaha, the AV Controller app is a well designed mobile app, period.

Oh, and Android has a feature of the "recent apps" screen that you can pin an app to stay in the foreground, sort of "kiosk mode."

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... The current crop might take some extra work to bypass the initial activation steps, or you just just activate for a short term (like a $10 airtime card on Tracfone).
Um, really? Nexus/Google phones ask for a SIM, and you can say "later" and they continue booting up and configuring. No SIM required to boot up a GSM phone. Maybe Verizon or Sprint's phones are different (bad). Perhaps we're talking about different varieties of Android and iOS phones....

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post #65 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 08:41 AM
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Um, really? Nexus/Google phones ask for a SIM, and you can say "later" and they continue booting up and configuring. No SIM required to boot up a GSM phone. Maybe Verizon or Sprint's phones are different (bad). Perhaps we're talking about different varieties of Android and iOS phones....
It does vary form device to device. And yes, Verizon devices are often at the heart of it. But it's usually simple things like touch all 4 corners in a clockwise order, or touch some other, unmarked location, or button sequence.
http://www.androidcentral.com/bypass...android-device
https://forum.xda-developers.com/sho...98&postcount=2

As long as it's not a brand new device on the market you can usually find the needed info in 5-10 minutes.
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post #66 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 08:44 AM
 
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I've never had a phone not work on wifi after disconnecting it from ATT. All of our old phones have always gone to our kids to play with whenever we upgrade to something new. They still have sim cards but they are deactivated, maybe that makes a difference.
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post #67 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
At least in the case of the Yamaha app, it utilizes a larger screen for more controls. Most proper Android apps, for instance, will adapt to small, medium, and large screens. The app is till useful on a 7" screen because it shows cover art for what's playing, or the options, volume and remote flyout menus all fit on the screen. I gotta hand it to Yamaha, the AV Controller app is a well designed mobile app, period.
While that's neat and all, for basic remote control a smaller device would suffice. And then you don't have to find room for a tablet on the end table.

I don't mind support for larger devices and added utility when doing so, but offer full FUNCTIONALITY regardless of screen size.

The large size is part of why I didn't like the old Pronto remotes. They are huge and difficult to use one handed. (I need to investigate the newer Peel devices. That with an old phone might be a better route than the Harmony I was looking at)
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post #68 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 09:21 AM
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As with many things, if Verizon is involved, it will be impossible, difficult, or cost you money. :-P

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Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
I've never had a phone not work on wifi after disconnecting it from ATT. All of our old phones have always gone to our kids to play with whenever we upgrade to something new. They still have sim cards but they are deactivated, maybe that makes a difference.
Of the ten or more phones I've had, none was crippled or inoperable when a SIM card wasn't installed. But I've never been on Verizon or Sprint, just the GSM carriers.

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While that's neat and all, for basic remote control a smaller device would suffice. And then you don't have to find room for a tablet on the end table.

I don't mind support for larger devices and added utility when doing so, but offer full FUNCTIONALITY regardless of screen size.
You misunderstand. Functionality is not limited or missing depending upon device. The app adapts to the screen resolution. This is a hallmark of Android that iOS was slow to adopt: one app for multiple screen sizes, not "one for iPHone, one for iPad." All functionality is present in all sizes, on both devices. Sometimes I forget that it has a remote fly-out for navigating all the on-screen stuffs, but generally I hardly need to do this. Adaptive DRC, tone controls, DSP, etc are there on the app, some of which are not available on the supplied remote. In Pandora, Server, Airplay, and others the cover art and play list are synced to the app. A nifty and easy to overlook feature: the customized names and icons for your inputs and scenes are synced to the app. So instead of remembering what's on HDMI1, HDMI2, HDMI3, it shows Blu-Ray, Chromecast, Apple TV. And you can remove hide inputs that you don't use, or don't want to see in the app, reducing screen clutter. E.g. HDMI4, AVI3, Spotify just don't show up.

Sure, not everyone keeps the tablet or laptop by the viewing position; a small scale handheld makes sense. I do keep devices nearby. I keep a Chromebook nearby sometimes, and a tablet is handy for looking something up online, checking my Blu-ray.com My Movies database (also iOS and Android), answering a text or instant message (Google Voice SMS messages can be answered from any device, not just the phone), etc. Everyone's situation is different. But since the topic is "21st century remote" I think use of a multipurpose and flexible touch screen device of any size is valid. I may be streaming from the device (e.g. some that don't have Apple TV apps, e.g. Amazon Instant Video, Skinemax) anyway; alas, the Amazon iOS app doesn't like multitasking at all, it must be in front (idiotic).

iOS app:




Android app on Nexus 4:


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post #69 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 09:32 AM
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If wifi remotes are so expensive, why does my $60 Roku have it, but my $600 receiver does not?

Line of sight is a pain. And so are universal remotes. The battery lasts practically forever in a standard remote, but in my two weeks with a Logitech Harmony One, the thing ate batteries like no tomorrow, and quickly got returned.
And I've changed the batteries all of one time the entire time that I've owned the Roku, so wifi over IR clearly doesn't hurt it much.
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post #70 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If wifi remotes are so expensive, why does my $60 Roku have it, but my $600 receiver does not?

Line of sight is a pain. And so are universal remotes. The battery lasts practically forever in a standard remote, but in my two weeks with a Logitech Harmony One, the thing ate batteries like no tomorrow, and quickly got returned.
And I've changed the batteries all of one time the entire time that I've owned the Roku, so wifi over IR clearly doesn't hurt it much.
Exactly. The PS3 remote was bluetooth, but Sony STILL won't make any of their other remotes use BT/RF/wifi? BULL****. The batteries lasted fine in it too.
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post #71 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
If wifi remotes are so expensive, why does my $60 Roku have it, but my $600 receiver does not?
Besides tx/rx components/protocol, cost is determined by software complexity/development/validation. How many functions does the Roku have vs. an AVR?
Quote:
Line of sight is a pain. And so are universal remotes. The battery lasts practically forever in a standard remote, but in my two weeks with a Logitech Harmony One, the thing ate batteries like no tomorrow, and quickly got returned.
And I've changed the batteries all of one time the entire time that I've owned the Roku, so wifi over IR clearly doesn't hurt it much.
Regarding the Logitech/Harmony products and battery life..
The biggest drain is the display, adjust the timeout.

Just my $0.02..
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post #72 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 10:12 AM
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Yes. It's called wi-fi. Most homes have it.
....


& a few don't, I'm thinking of doing away with it for as limited coverage it has in my dwelling , the fickle connectivity, & the fact I seldom use it..


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I wasn't referring to the cheap(er) phones that are sold for ONLY pre-pay services. I use phones that are unlocked, can be used on post-paid or pre-paid services as I choose. The phone isn't in any way tied to the type of contract i have. :}
.
Hence used stuff off the bay?


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That happened to me. For realz.
....

Although I don't use the Bluray online much except for the 2 non- "EZ Monthlies" available as U -Tube & Accuweather, can take up to an houre for it to decide to connect to my Wi-Fi, see above... scary thought they can brick their devices when they feel they reached EOL.


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I used to program it (about a decade ago LOL), however it just became a PITA with our frequent power outages here, I'm pretty good (knock on wood) so far & seldom forget to turn it down to 62 when I leave, & then turn it up when I return.

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If you mean my costs for an unlocked smartphone, my point was that you have other choices for a working smartphone than either sign a two-year contract OR shell out hundreds of dollars. Deals on unlocked phones that you can use on any GSM carrier abound. ....
I can imagine you find these online deals, although I also stopped online commerce many years ago, just too many bad guys around... & it's even gotten worse since. Though your concept of reusing what many would consider obsolete technology, or others castoffs, sounds like a great idea!


This is getting way beyond me as far as apps & OS's, someone threw me their touch screen phone (not even sure if it was smart), darned if I could not figure out how to even make a simple phone call on it.
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post #73 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 12:44 PM
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& a few don't, I'm thinking of doing away with it for as limited coverage it has in my dwelling , the fickle connectivity, & the fact I seldom use it..
Sounds like a router issue. More robust routers are more reliable.
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Hence used stuff off the bay?
I prefer factory refurbished units. Used phones from consumers can be a minefield of folks who don't know how to unlock or reset a phone.
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Although I don't use the Bluray online much except for the 2 non- "EZ Monthlies" available as U -Tube & Accuweather, can take up to an houre for it to decide to connect to my Wi-Fi, see above... scary thought they can brick their devices when they feel they reached EOL.
Again, could be a router problem, or the player. :}
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I used to program it (about a decade ago LOL), however it just became a PITA with our frequent power outages here, I'm pretty good (knock on wood) so far & seldom forget to turn it down to 62 when I leave, & then turn it up when I return.
Most modern units come with a battery for backup.
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I can imagine you find these online deals, although I also stopped online commerce many years ago, just too many bad guys around... & it's even gotten worse since. Though your concept of reusing what many would consider obsolete technology, or others castoffs, sounds like a great idea!
Online commerce from reputable sites is pretty safe. E.g. I get my factory refurb units from Amazon, NewEgg, sites that offer zero cost return if there's something dodgy.
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post #74 of 111 Old 02-16-2017, 01:17 PM
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I've never had a phone not work on wifi after disconnecting it from ATT. All of our old phones have always gone to our kids to play with whenever we upgrade to something new. They still have sim cards but they are deactivated, maybe that makes a difference.
No, the difference is that they were at one point activated.
Different if it's a new device straight out of the box.

Do a full reset on them and you may have to do the initial activation again.
Then again, part of that may be stored in area that doesn't get rewritten even if you do a full firmware flash. I haven't reset/reflashed a phone that was active in a long time so I don't recall exactly.
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post #75 of 111 Old 02-17-2017, 07:01 AM
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I think of remotes with receivers as buying a new car for the stereo. You should buy it for the heart of your system, add the extra's later. Just factor that you will have to buy a good remote once. I would much rather have $1,000.00 in a receiver that is dedicated to the receiver portion over an $800.00 priced one priced at $1,000.00 because of a remote.
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post #76 of 111 Old 02-17-2017, 10:08 AM
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I think of remotes with receivers as buying a new car for the stereo. You should buy it for the heart of your system, add the extra's later. Just factor that you will have to buy a good remote once. I would much rather have $1,000.00 in a receiver that is dedicated to the receiver portion over an $800.00 priced one priced at $1,000.00 because of a remote.


I guess why I'm not too upset with the TV manufactures removing the tuners, a lot of them have become second rate as Americas Lemmings flocked to cable & other pay services and never noted that they were taking short cuts in the circuitry & quality anyway... as long as I can buy a better one as an add on.


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post #77 of 111 Old 02-20-2017, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just out of curiosity, which receiver manufacturers offer a good PC/web interface? I don't do phones/tablets, but I could definitely see screwing with settings via PC rather than sifting through menus with a remote.
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post #78 of 111 Old 02-20-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post
Just out of curiosity, which receiver manufacturers offer a good PC/web interface? I don't do phones/tablets, but I could definitely see screwing with settings via PC rather than sifting through menus with a remote.
The web interface for my Yamaha RXV775 is pretty rudimentary, just the basics (the mobile app offers more), but also has an undocumented /settings page that lets you access just about everything, including a few things that you can't from the unit's on-screen menus.


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post #79 of 111 Old 02-20-2017, 01:08 PM
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(sarcasm) Yeah, I really wish those governing bodies that are overseeing Wi-Fi and Bluetooth would hurry up and approve some standards for them....

Not sure what you mean here. I'd agree if you meant that the inconsistency of apps used over your home wi-fi network makes usefulness and usabililty haphazard. Samsung rather quickly (two years) dropped support of my 2012 TV from their Android app, leading me to vow to avoid buying from them again unless their TV was the best in class. (I had a Samsung BD player once upon a time, and a firmware update literally bricked the player, it wouldn't turn on. God bless Costco for taking it back 19 months after purchase.)




Cute. Here's another story.

1. I'm watching a movie with guests. I want to change the tone control, Adaptive DRC, and dialog trim of a movie. Using the remote, this can only be done with a huge on-screen menus, meaning I have to pause the movie and block the image with teh on-screen menus, or....

2. I reach for the nearest iPad, iPad Mini, Nexus 7, or my Nexus 5 phone (or the older iPod Touch that I have kicking around somewhere).

3. I run the Yamaha AV Controller app, set all the options with the app, and no one even knows that I changed anything. (BTW, I don't have to "find it," if I've used it within the last 4 hours it doesn't require unlocking, and the app is in my "recent apps" screen so it's easy to relaunch.)


Here's another story for ya:

1. I'm playing some music on my system, let's say I'm using teh DLNA streaming option on my avr.

2. I can pick up the remote, stand up in the dining area, and aim the remote at the AVR, and hope that more than every other button press is responded to. Oh, wait, the remote isn't near me, I have to go find it. Sofa? No. Coffee table? No. Hmm. By the TV? Ah, there it is where my daughter left it.

3. I can touch my iPad Mini, which is open next to me at the dining table, browse the folders on my NAS music share, and start playing one.

4. The phone rings. I need to pause the music. Instead of trying to find the remote somewhere in the living room, I just tap pause, stop, or mute on my iPad Mini sitting next to me and take the call.

One more

1. I'm upstairs, done with showering, getting dressed. I'd like some music playing.

2. I open the app on my phone, turn the AVR on, select Pandora, select the channel I want playing.

3. The music is already playing before I put my phone down.


I'll admit that some manufacturers are better than others. My Panasonic BD player apps still work, and the player is ancient (BDT-215). The Yamaha app is superb, very well designed and programmed, and still supports my RXV-775. I already mentioned the runt of the litter, Samsung.



Have you actually done this? All my devices have automatic brightness control, so the "bright screen" isn't really so bright. But I'll admit, if I only want to tweak the volume, the IR remote is easy and unobtrusive (if I have on-screen feedback messages turned off, which I do).


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Nailed it! Remotes are a joke. I'm the same way, I have 2 Samsung tablets with the apps I need open on it. All my remotes are in a drawer and I don't touch them.

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post #80 of 111 Old 02-20-2017, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post
Just out of curiosity, which receiver manufacturers offer a good PC/web interface? I don't do phones/tablets, but I could definitely see screwing with settings via PC rather than sifting through menus with a remote.
The Yamaha is excellent for setting the settings via web browser, just type the IP address/Setup. The app or just the IP address of the unit doesn't have all the settings and better for control then setup.
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post #81 of 111 Old 02-21-2017, 07:28 AM
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You misunderstand. Functionality is not limited or missing depending upon device.
No misunderstanding. Just making a point that the app needs to include full functionality regardless of screen size. I have seen apps that are missing stuff on smaller screens (or add additional functionality on larger screens, depending on your perspective).

Just scaling the screen may limit usability. The app needs to be written properly for a smaller screen, using menus, flyouts, overlays, multiple pages, etc.
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post #82 of 111 Old 02-21-2017, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
How can anyone, esp in this forum, recommend crappy smartphone apps? They have their place - that place is when you need to use a streaming app or configure some complicated nonsense.

But if I'm watching a movie and need to change the volume or inputs or see what source is playing etc, which of these is simpler?

1. find my phone. unlock phone. open the app - remember the app is most likely to be obsoleted within a year as the new version of the app won't work with older stuff. wait for app to connect, if needed. look at screen and operate app. wait for the tiny but certain delay
...
Sorry to go back so far, but when people post these downsides to a phone or tablet app, I have to respond... "You're doing it wrong!" There are downsides, like no dedicated buttons to use by feel, but that's not what Defcon is talking about here.

If you use the app to run your system the phone will already be unlocked, the app will already be running, connection is instant and I experience no delay. I set the device's display to the dimmest possible level, and it stays. If the app's maker doesn't keep their library of controlled devices up to date, they've gone out of business. It happens and it's a risk. But you can take that to extremes and not buy anything.

Also, finding and launching the app on my iPad is easier than finding a physical remote!
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post #83 of 111 Old 02-21-2017, 08:19 PM
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No misunderstanding. Just making a point that the app needs to include full functionality regardless of screen size. I have seen apps that are missing stuff on smaller screens (or add additional functionality on larger screens, depending on your perspective).

Just scaling the screen may limit usability. The app needs to be written properly for a smaller screen, using menus, flyouts, overlays, multiple pages, etc.
It does. That's what impresses me so much about the Yamaha app. All the functions and controls that are on the larger screen are available in the smaller screen, just using the reduced screen res more efficiently. Things like swiping are acted upon consistently, too.

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post #84 of 111 Old 02-22-2017, 04:50 AM
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It does. That's what impresses me so much about the Yamaha app.
Great for Yamaha. What about the rest?

I'm discussing generalities instead of a specific instance.
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post #85 of 111 Old 02-22-2017, 09:39 AM
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It does. That's what impresses me so much about the Yamaha app. All the functions and controls that are on the larger screen are available in the smaller screen, just using the reduced screen res more efficiently. Things like swiping are acted upon consistently, too.
I count 6 lines in your sig on my browser. Couldn't resist...
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post #86 of 111 Old 02-22-2017, 02:35 PM
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I count 6 lines in your sig on my browser. Couldn't resist...
Har har. FYI: my sig is 3 lines. Two lines are in FONT SIZE 1. Here, let me shrink it all so you don't have unzoom your browser or maximize your window.

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Hey, folks. A 10-line signature on a post of only 3 lines is a joke. Cut your sigs down to no more than 4 lines, 'kay??
A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550. 
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post #87 of 111 Old 02-22-2017, 02:48 PM
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easiest solution is going to be an RF universal remote, as much as you probably don't want to hear that...
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post #88 of 111 Old 02-22-2017, 03:39 PM
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easiest solution is going to be an RF universal remote, as much as you probably don't want to hear that...
I'm really having trouble incorporating a universal remote into a modern system. Between the specialized remotes of the Xfinity X1 box, the LG OLED TV, the Apple TV and the like there's noting a Universal can really do anymore. Voice? Trackpad? RF to device? Magic Wand? A Universal has none of it.
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post #89 of 111 Old 02-22-2017, 09:39 PM
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And that's the problem with 21st century remotes. We're back with 20th century remote madness as no one can unify all the remotes. Everyone all uses their own proprietary protocols, wireless frequencies, etc.

And the great fun of remembering all the remotes you need to use in order to watch a movie, or regular tv, etc.
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post #90 of 111 Old 02-22-2017, 09:57 PM
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And that's the problem with 21st century remotes. We're back with 20th century remote madness as no one can unify all the remotes. Everyone all uses their own proprietary protocols, wireless frequencies, etc.

And the great fun of remembering all the remotes you need to use in order to watch a movie, or regular tv, etc.
I wonder if someone will come up with a programmable universal remote that can mimic all the new-fangled stuff. There are software driven radios now. A mic wouldn't be that hard to include. Make the custom display (like the 650 has) act like a trackpad when necessary and you've got Apple TV covered. Put in some gyros (they are really tiny) and you can do Magic Wand stuff too. It is technically possible.
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