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post #1 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Help choosing a receiver.

OK, so the time has come to upgrade my baby. My 3803 cannot pass HDMI and I am moving to a 4k projector next year. With that in mind, I am trying to choose the best receiver for my needs.

First, I play a lot of my old school systems so I would like the receiver to give a good picture with my old systems. To my understanding, that would require an analog to hdmi scaler iirc. Please correct, or further enlighten me, on this issue as you see fit. The more info I can get, the better. I am not interested in any SCART solutions.

Second, I am upgrading to 4k next year. I want to have something that will give me as many of the new bells and whistles as possible. I will have a gaming PC (980ti), PS4 Pro, and any other sources that are viable. This means I need HDR amongst other things. I would like to learn more about what, exactly, I need in my receiver to maximize my benefits with these options.

Is there anything else I should be looking out for? I know this is a lot, but I don't spend this much money often so I want to make the best choice for my needs. I am looking to spend up to $600, maybe a little more if it makes a big difference. Thanks for the help, folks. I am looking to buy this weekend.
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh, I am looking at Denon, Yamaha, and Marantz brands. Thanks for your time!
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0d1gy View Post
Oh, I am looking at Denon, Yamaha, and Marantz brands. Thanks for your time!
Those indeed are the major brands to consider these days. Pioneer's Entertainment division (which makes their receivers) is now run by Onkyo, which is not a favorite here on AVS. Denon and Marantz are made by the same company and have similar digital and video features. Marantz does use proprietary preamp designs, though, which sometimes can make a difference.

Look carefully at what support is provided for analog transcoding to HDMI. That feature has been dropped from most of the lower models in recent years. You might have a problem finding it in your price range.

Full 4K support is provided in both 2015 and 2016 receiver models. If they're still available, the prices have been dramatically reduced for the 2015 models. A common limitation in the lesser models (i.e in your price range) is that the receiver's graphical user interface (including the volume display) can't be overlayed on 4K video signals.
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Look carefully at what support is provided for analog transcoding to HDMI. That feature has been dropped from most of the lower models in recent years. You might have a problem finding it in your price range.

Full 4K support is provided in both 2015 and 2016 receiver models. If they're still available, the prices have been dramatically reduced for the 2015 models. A common limitation in the lesser models (i.e in your price range) is that the receiver's graphical user interface (including the volume display) can't be overlayed on 4K video signals.
Yeah I noticed a lot of them don't do analog anymore, that kind of sucks. Even my modded Xbox will need component passthrough, so I'm probably better off looking for older models. Some of the better 2015/4 models had 4k/60hz passthrough iirc and I don't mind going refurb in I have to.

Are you saying you can't see the menus in some 4k receivers? Yikes. Well, I have been looking at the x1300 Fry's has on sale this weekend and some refurbs on a4l. I have considered everything from the 3300 on down. Should I maybe consider Yamaha? Do you get better feature per dollar with them? I sold both back in the 90's so I am very confident with either line.
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post #5 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by pr0d1gy View Post
Yeah I noticed a lot of them don't do analog anymore, that kind of sucks. Even my modded Xbox will need component passthrough, so I'm probably better off looking for older models. Some of the better 2015/4 models had 4k/60hz passthrough iirc and I don't mind going refurb in I have to.
I'd suggest not bothering with any 2014 AVR models. Most 2014 models which "support" 4K can't process HDCP v2.2 at all (it's required by commercial 4K video). The few which can are limited to a single 4K input which maxes out at @24Hz. Most 4K disc players generate 4K @ 60Hz.

2015 models are fine, though.

Quote:
Are you saying you can't see the menus in some 4k receivers?
Not quite. My understanding is that the lower end D+M receivers can provide menus but have to replace the incoming 4K video signal by their own video: they can't do overlays. Chipsets with adequate bandwidth are more expensive, so they're only in the higher end models.

Quote:
Yikes. Well, I have been looking at the x1300 Fry's has on sale this weekend and some refurbs on a4l. I have considered everything from the 3300 on down. Should I maybe consider Yamaha? Do you get better feature per dollar with them? I sold both back in the 90's so I am very confident with either line.
Sorry, I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the details of Yamaha's lineup. They do have a reputation for high reliability. It'd probably be appropriate to ask questions in one or more of the Yamaha threads.

I think that a major reason wny D+M tends to be preferred here on AVS is that their room equalization software (Audyssey) can EQ to a lower frequency (10 Hz) than Yamaha's YPAO can. My understanding is that it has a lower limit of 32Hz. Yamaha does allow more manual audio tweaking, though, and that can be used for the lower frequencies.

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post #6 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Selden, you have been extremely helpful. I am leaning towards the x3300 right now.
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 12:11 PM
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You're very welcome.

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post #8 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
(snip)


Not quite. My understanding is that the lower end D+M receivers can provide menus but have to replace the incoming 4K video signal by their own video: they can't do overlays.

(snip)
I can't generalize, but I have owned a Yamaha TSR-5810 (RX-V581, as sold by Costco) for a couple of months. It doesn't upscale lower resolutions to 4k, but it supports menu overlays on 4k video (from a UHD BD player).

The AVR has analog video inputs, but it cannot convert analog to HDMI. I don't know whether any <$600 receivers support that. (I guess that it's not due to technological limits. I bought a standalone composite video to HDMI converter for around $25; it worked well enough.)
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
I can't generalize, but I have owned a Yamaha TSR-5810 (RX-V581, as sold by Costco) for a couple of months. It doesn't upscale lower resolutions to 4k, but it supports menu overlays on 4k video (from a UHD BD player).

The AVR has analog video inputs, but it cannot convert analog to HDMI. I don't know whether any <$600 receivers support that. (I guess that it's not due to technological limits. I bought a standalone composite video to HDMI converter for around $25; it worked well enough.)
Yeah I think I'm going to have to go higher end to get what I want. I've been checking out the Marantz 6010. I'd rather avoid converters as I would need at least 2-3 different types and that just adds to the price.
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pr0d1gy View Post
Yeah I think I'm going to have to go higher end to get what I want. I've been checking out the Marantz 6010. I'd rather avoid converters as I would need at least 2-3 different types and that just adds to the price.
I mentioned the converter not to recommend one, but just to suggest that the manufacturers could add the capability to their receivers without a huge cost increase.

I guess they feel that too few people want analog-to-HDMI to justify it.
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 06:47 PM
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Yeah I think I'm going to have to go higher end to get what I want. I've been checking out the Marantz 6010. I'd rather avoid converters as I would need at least 2-3 different types and that just adds to the price.
modern receivers only have composite, component and HDMI. What other types of connections would you be looking for?

The Marantz 6010 as well as the Denon x3300 will both convert composite and component to HDMI. The x3300 is currently on sale for $499 if you live close to Fry's.
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The x3300 is currently on sale for $499 if you live close to Fry's.
Thanks for the heads up. Looks like the x3300 is the way to go.
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
I'd suggest not bothering with any 2014 AVR models. Most 2014 models which "support" 4K can't process HDCP v2.2 at all (it's required by commercial 4K video). The few which can are limited to a single 4K input which maxes out at @24Hz. Most 4K disc players generate 4K @ 60Hz.

2015 models are fine, though.



Not quite. My understanding is that the lower end D+M receivers can provide menus but have to replace the incoming 4K video signal by their own video: they can't do overlays. Chipsets with adequate bandwidth are more expensive, so they're only in the higher end models.



Sorry, I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the details of Yamaha's lineup. They do have a reputation for high reliability. It'd probably be appropriate to ask questions in one or more of the Yamaha threads.

I think that a major reason wny D+M tends to be preferred here on AVS is that their room equalization software (Audyssey) can EQ to a lower frequency (10 Hz) than Yamaha's YPAO can. My understanding is that it has a lower limit of 32Hz. Yamaha does allow more manual audio tweaking, though, and that can be used for the lower frequencies.
Only down to 31Hz using the YPAO mic.
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post #14 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 10:07 AM
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I also receive the promo codes for FRYS and indeed at $499 the denon avr x3300 is the best choice. It has full main zone preouts for future upgrades to external amplifiers and digital signals from optical and coaxial can be passed to zone 2. This means that zone 2 can be used as a DAC for a external headphone amplifier.
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post #15 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I also receive the promo codes for FRYS and indeed at $499 the denon avr x3300 is the best choice. It has full main zone preouts for future upgrades to external amplifiers and digital signals from optical and coaxial can be passed to zone 2. This means that zone 2 can be used as a DAC for a external headphone amplifier.
Yeah I have the code for that, but it looks like they are out of stock all over the place. Do they usually honor the deal in some way or am I SOL? Will other stores match the price? I mean I guess I could go another direction if not, but that looks like the best deal going right now.
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pr0d1gy View Post
Thanks for the heads up. Looks like the x3300 is the way to go.


Hey while you at the store grab me the klipsch rc-62ii center speaker I'm on the east coast lol, good luck with the receiver you won't be disappointed cheers


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post #17 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
modern receivers only have composite, component and HDMI. What other types of connections would you be looking for?

The Marantz 6010 as well as the Denon x3300 will both convert composite and component to HDMI. The x3300 is currently on sale for $499 if you live close to Fry's.
Read the fine print on the coupon. In store only. Crap!
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Not quite. My understanding is that the lower end D+M receivers can provide menus but have to replace the incoming 4K video signal by their own video: they can't do overlays. Chipsets with adequate bandwidth are more expensive, so they're only in the higher end models.
Is the X3300 considered lower end or can it do overlays?

Edit: I meant to write X3200.
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 04:53 PM
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x3300 will overlay 4K 60hz. Don't know about x3200 but I suspect it would be same as x3300.

The x2300 and below does not.

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post #20 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 05:02 PM
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Read the fine print on the coupon. In store only. Crap!
That's why I said if you LIVE close to Fry's store.

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post #21 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 07:27 PM
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Thanks for the heads up. Looks like the x3300 is the way to go.
Had the x3300 and thought it was great. Been a big fan of denon.
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-24-2017, 07:29 PM
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Had the x3300 and thought it was great. Been a big fan of denon.
Had?
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-25-2017, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who helped in this thread. I am going to try to get the 3300 or something similar if they'll honor the deal (Yamaha 860, Marantz 6010/11), otherwise I'm just going to order a 7790 from an online store.
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, went into Fry's yesterday and they had the Yamaha A1060 on sale. It was a little more than I wanted to spend but it was hard to turn down such a good deal on a top flight receiver. Thanks again everyone, and I will see you in the Yamaha A1060 thread!

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