"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 138 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4111 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNotepadShow View Post
The FAQ on the first few pages of this thread... says to leave it ON. It also mentions that you should use an external source for the calibration/double checking.. i.e. a bluray, DVD, or some other media format that has a pink noise for all required channels. You should be doing this via the "channel level of your source input.. press option on your remote.

Hope this helps.
Why wouldn't this be done under manual setup? That's where the main levels are.

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post #4112 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
I looked deeper into that HDAM circuit. It is indeed an operational amplifier with a gain of about 19dB and an output impedance of 220 ohms. The maximum output is about 4.5VRMS, about 15dB above the classical "0 VU" reference point. It inverts the incoming signal, suggesting that another inversion takes place elsewhere in the AVR.

Pros: The circuit is conservatively designed and uses some clever bias methods for stability.

Cons: It uses all bipolar transistors and there a four P-N junctions (Q4091, Q4093, Q4087, Q4097) outside of the feedback loop, so any distortion added by those four to the incoming signal is not corrected by the feedback. Another version also called HDAM (attached) used FET inputs instead, thus avoiding the non-linear characteristic of the base-emitter junctions. The distortion would be of little significance in practical use since that stage works an a unity-gain emitter follower but the junction noise cannot be escaped.

The design is unnecessarily complicated, using mirrored push-pull transistor pairs throughout even though both input and output are single-ended. Any claimed benefit from the discrete-component design is negated because the signal passes through IC opamps elsewhere in the design.

The same job (probably with more bandwidth and less noise, certainly with higher peak output) could be achieved by a single IC, reducing the component count and number of solder joints (potential failure spots).
Interesting, thanks!

So there's now good technical info to validate my contention that the Denon's simplicity may be a good thing for most users. Plus you get Audyssey XT32 for the same price.

It would be interesting for someone to A/B these two for SQ. (the X3400H and the SR-5012)

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post #4113 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 11:29 AM
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Can anybody please confirm that the X3400/X4400 shows volume bar/info and GUI when Apple TV 4K is sending 4K/60Hz content? In the first post says only 4K/24Hz/30Hz but then somewhere in this thread says 4K/60Hz shows volume bar/info and GUI. Thanks!!

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post #4114 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Can anybody please confirm that the X3400/X4400 shows volume bar/info and GUI when Apple TV 4K is sending 4K/60Hz content? In the first post says only 4K/24Hz/30Hz but then somewhere in this thread says 4K/60Hz shows volume bar/info and GUI. Thanks!!


No, nothing on any manufacturers receivers can handle 4K/60.


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post #4115 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post
It would be interesting for someone to A/B these two for SQ. (the X3400H and the SR-5012)
I am a skeptic about A/B comparisons. Some listeners actual enjoy a little even-harmonic distortion--it can make the sound "richer" (whatever that means). So even if a perfectly controlled A/B could be set up, all it would tell us is that the two sounds were either the same or perceptibly different; not whether one was "better."

In the end we need to listen to music, not hardware, and base our choices on what sound we like to hear.
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post #4116 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
I am a skeptic about A/B comparisons. Some listeners actual enjoy a little even-harmonic distortion--it can make the sound "richer" (whatever that means). So even if a perfectly controlled A/B could be set up, all it would tell us is that the two sounds were either the same or perceptibly different; not whether one was "better."

In the end we need to listen to music, not hardware, and base our choices on what sound we like to hear.
Good point. I am enjoying listening to my new X3400H very much so far. I just thought it was kind of strange that it's "cousin" in the other line has this extra board in it. And what the differences in sound might be.

To be honest, I enjoy listening to stereo music on my fully restored and re-capped 1976 Marantz 2275 the most :-)

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post #4117 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post
Interesting, thanks!

So there's now good technical info to validate my contention that the Denon's simplicity may be a good thing for most users. Plus you get Audyssey XT32 for the same price.

It would be interesting for someone to A/B these two for SQ. (the X3400H and the SR-5012)
The X3400H uses the much more advanced XT32 and is the sister model to the SR6012, while the SR5012 is comparable to the X2400H.
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post #4118 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
No, nothing on any manufacturers receivers can handle 4K/60.


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Well, thanks for the confirmation. You just saved me $1299. I will stick with my Marantz NR1606 until Denon/Marantz offers this feature. BTW, the New "delayed for almost a year" and ready to be released, V3 HDMI board for the Emotiva XMC-1 does support GUI overlay at 4K/60Hz + HDR.

I'm hopping for Denon/Marantz will offer GUI overlay at 4K/60Hz in the 2018 models.
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post #4119 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog510 View Post
How's everyone? I got a SPL meter & would like to calibrate all of my speakers to 75DB. Should I turn Audyssey off when I do this or leave it on?

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Doesn't matter as Audyssey is ignored when the test tones are playing which is why, if you feel you need to use an SPL meter, you need to use a 3rd party test tone calibration disc.
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post #4120 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X3400H uses the much more advanced XT32 and is the sister model to the SR6012, while the SR5012 is comparable to the X2400H.
I respectfully disagree.

The X3400H and SR-5012 are the same list price and both have 7 built-in amps. Marantz just chose to include that HDAM board we've been talking about instead of XT32.

The X4400H and SR-6012 have 9 amps and other things like jitter reduction etc. And are within $100 list price. (This time similar features plus the extra $100 in the Marantz to pay for that HDAM board).

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post #4121 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post
I respectfully disagree.

The X3400H and SR-5012 are the same list price and both have 7 built-in amps. Marantz just chose to include that HDAM board we've been talking about instead of XT32.

The X4400H and SR-6012 have 9 amps and other things like jitter reduction etc. And are within $100 list price. (This time similar features plus the extra $100 in the Marantz to pay for that HDAM board).
To the OP's question, I believe another difference is that the X3400H and X4400H both upconvert composite and component video to the HDMI outputs but the X2400H does not.
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post #4122 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post
I respectfully disagree.

The X3400H and SR-5012 are the same list price and both have 7 built-in amps. Marantz just chose to include that HDAM board we've been talking about instead of XT32.

The X4400H and SR-6012 have 9 amps and other things like jitter reduction etc. And are within $100 list price. (This time similar features plus the extra $100 in the Marantz to pay for that HDAM board).
Believe what you may. Price has nothing to do with it ... Marantz has always cost more than its comparable Denon sister model.
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post #4123 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 02:19 PM
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OK--What kind of reset should I do for "permanent" results? X4400H. Just ran Audyssey after adding side and four dolby speakers (5.1.4). Audyssey is successful. But, if I turn the Receiver "off" with the power button, and then back "on" I get no output from the speakers. When I click on "info", the OSD shows no "inputs" active. But, if I then do a "soft" reset (unplug receiver for 10 sec), all function is restored until I use the power button to turn it off and then back on.

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post #4124 of 12656 Old 03-16-2018, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
OK--What kind of reset should I do for "permanent" results? X4400H. Just ran Audyssey after adding side and four dolby speakers (5.1.4). Audyssey is successful. But, if I turn the Receiver "off" with the power button, and then back "on" I get no output from the speakers. When I click on "info", the OSD shows no "inputs" active. But, if I then do a "soft" reset (unplug receiver for 10 sec), all function is restored until I use the power button to turn it off and then back on.
There is a lot of very helpful information I have provided in the first 8 posts of this thread. Refer to post 5 on how to do a microprocessor reset.
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post #4125 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
No, nothing on any manufacturers receivers can handle 4K/60.


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I have the AVR-X4400H and an Apple TV 4K and it can output the volume OSD on 4K/60 with everything (including HDR10) except for Dolby Vision.
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post #4126 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PJL99 View Post
I have a Western Digital MyCloud 4TB. The content browsing with the X2400H is extremely fast with both Windows Media Player and the WD NAS, much faster than my older X2100W.

(The MyCloud can allow DLNA and file remote access too, although I have disabled it. If you have further questions about it feel free to PM me so we don't bore others here in the thread.)
Nice! I just checked into the Western Digital My Cloud, and it looks like a very nice little NAS device with a lot of built-in software, including Twonky Media Server, an iTunes server and a fully accessible Linux OS. Unfortunately, it appears to be a discontinued product and is replaced by a much less capable product called "My Cloud Home" (which looks terrible). This reminds me of when Western Digital discontinued WD TV. A very nice product for it's time, now gone. I'm tempted to purchase the a My Cloud as I see a few remaining sources.

Thanks for the info - much appreciated!

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post #4127 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 04:58 AM
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Question

I tried searching so forgive me as I think they may have been answered before.

I tried using Spotify Connect from my iphone (6) to my Denon S730h ... works lovely but I get no control of volume.

I searched the FAQ here and also googled the issue and found a number of posts but nothing that resolved the issue.

When using the volume buttons in my iphone it shows the volume being adjusted on the AVR but that doesn't happen.

Edit - I can control volume from the manual knob on the AVR or the Denon App in the meantime.

Edit 2- This may be a problem fixed with the 2-14 FW update. I don't know if I have that update. I'm trying to update the denon FW and I think "searching for update" should time out eventually .....

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post #4128 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 07:15 AM
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I'm trying to determine if I have the latest FW for my S730H.

It says I have FW version - 4200-6200-1051-2044

I am trying to update and it's searching for update for hours .... Either the server is down or it won't talk to me because I already have the update or maybe I need to do a network reset or full reset.

This post claims there was a feb 2018 update buy the Denon site lists the Nov 2017 as most recent?

(Edit - I let my AVR search for the server for half and hour and then had to shut down the system,... I'll try again later.)


-Brian

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post #4129 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog510 View Post
Why wouldn't this be done under manual setup? That's where the main levels are.

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Manual setup uses internal pink noise test, which don’t take in consideration the EQing the Audyssey has done for you. The internal pink noise test bypasses Audyssey... Hence why you have to use an external pink noise source.
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post #4130 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by TheNotepadShow View Post
Manual setup uses internal pink noise test, which don’t take in consideration the EQing the Audyssey has done for you. The internal pink noise test bypasses Audyssey... Hence why you have to use an external pink noise source.
Yeah but couldn't i turn off Audyssey altogether to calibrate the levels?

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post #4131 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 07:57 AM
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Can someone tell me how to fix this? I just recently bought the denon 930h receiver everything work fine at first. Now I notice that there something wrong with the sound. Everything sounded fine when I use multi channel but when
I switch to Dolby digital or DTS no sound or barely hear any sound. Thanks

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post #4132 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Thng0 View Post
Can someone tell me how to fix this? I just recently bought the denon 930h receiver everything work fine at first. Now I notice that there something wrong with the sound. Everything sounded fine when I use multi channel but when

I switch to Dolby digital or DTS no sound or barely hear any sound. Thanks



https://youtu.be/tzYTHfvKDL8


You need to run audessy and set your speaker levels. That will help improve the sound


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post #4133 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog510 View Post
Yeah but couldn't i turn off Audyssey altogether to calibrate the levels?

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Nope you can’t. Why not calibrate with audyssey? It’s there to maximize your speaker sound levels across the board.


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post #4134 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog510 View Post
Yeah but couldn't i turn off Audyssey altogether to calibrate the levels?

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Sure, absolutely... you don't have to use Audyssey, in which case you can do the adjustment inside "manual setup". But the whole reason in having such a high end receiver is to allow Audyssey to do its thing (EQ Room Cal, Distance, Levels, etc..)

The Audyssey Part II thread might help. Check out section E, part 3
I don't have enough post yet, so I can't use a link... sorry about that :-)

Best Regards.
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post #4135 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
Nope you can’t. Why not calibrate with audyssey? It’s there to maximize your speaker sound levels across the board.


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I've read some people don't even use Audyssey. They turn it off.

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post #4136 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog510 View Post
I've read some people don't even use Audyssey. They turn it off.

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Yes some people do calibrate with out audyssey because they claim they have better ears than audyssey

But honestly, I personally have had better results with audyssey than without and part of it is because it takes the acoustics of your room into account


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post #4137 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
You need to run audessy and set your speaker levels. That will help improve the sound


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It's was under audessy setting when this happened. I read somewhere they said it might be the Dolby digital sound card. Has anyone had the problem?
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post #4138 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 07:16 PM
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Unhappy HELP! Newbie here

I own both a Denon AVR510BT and the AVR 730. the 510 worked great but no internet so i upgraded. But the 730 seems to shut down my subwoofer in all modes except "MUSIC" and that mode seems to muddy the high-end sounds. Anything I can do?? Denon told me just to re-calibrate the speakers but that did nothing. PLEASE HELP if you have any ideas. TY
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post #4139 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog510 View Post
I've read some people don't even use Audyssey. They turn it off.

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Most of those folks either have heavily treated dedicated HT rooms or are the 2 channel purist crowd for which there is already the bypass L&R feature under the Audio->Audyssey settings. Do what you want though as it's your setup. My setup sounds way better with Audyssey's FIR filters in the mix. You might also Invest 20 bucks in the Denon MultEQ app and limit EQ under the rooms transition frequency.

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post #4140 of 12656 Old 03-17-2018, 08:43 PM
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So I recently bought the Yamaha rx-a2070 sounds awesome but to dial in the sub's is a little more adjusting than I'm used to, in the automatic calibration only goes to 31hz. Buy manually you can set it to 15.hz, so I'm wondering what I maybe missing with the denon xt32 calibration?

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