"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 144 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4291 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 11:02 AM
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I use my iPad to view AVS forums and lately have been getting pop ups that say I won and mention Amazon. It’s only happening on AVS and once it pops I’m stuck. No getting it to go away. Is AVS infected or am I. Given it only happens here, I’m concerned. Never on Facebook, Twitter or other web sites. I forgot to grab a screen shot. I’ll do that next time.

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post #4292 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
Like I said, the back part is completely open, there was a piece of wood I did not install due to the low clearance. So with plenty of clearance on the sides, and with the back wide open, does that not compensate for the 1" top clearance?

I can try relocating the shelf and move it up a few inches, but before I do that I need to know if the back part compensates. Thanks.
Unfortunately no. The heat will simply gather at the top of the AVR and eventually you'll have heat related issues. Denon actually suggests 12" clearance above the AVR.
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post #4293 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by joe221 View Post
I use my iPad to view AVS forums and lately have been getting pop ups that say I won and mention Amazon. It’s only happening on AVS and once it pops I’m stuck. No getting it to go away. Is AVS infected or am I. Given it only happens here, I’m concerned. Never on Facebook, Twitter or other web sites. I forgot to grab a screen shot. I’ll do that next time.
Not a question for this thread, rather for one of the AVS moderators listed at the bottom of the Receivers, Amps, Processors forum first page.
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post #4294 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Benlee View Post
Hi,

I am thinking of upgrading my ageing Denon AVR-3808 to the latest Denon AVR-X3400H. Part of the reason is because I want to enjoy Dolby Atmos soundtrack on my bluray movies. However, a lot of my current and older movies still come with the standard lossless DTS/TrueHD 5.1 soundtracks. I am wondering if I will hear a difference ( ie better sound ) when playing back these movies on the new receiver.

These are the specs of the two receivers.

https://www.denon.sg/sg/product/home...iver/avrx3400h

https://www.cnet.com/products/denon-avr-3808ci/specs/

If I just compared specs it looks to me that my 3808 is more powerful in watts but then I am not an expert.

Will appreciate any advise. Thanks in advance.
The current successor to the 3808 is the X6400H so power wise the 3808 has the X3400H beat, however, as the X3400H uses the more advanced XT32 vs. just XT on the 3808, you should hear an improvement in audio quality after running Audyssey.
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post #4295 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gossamer88 View Post
one of my dogs gets the shakes from the sound. She is super sensitive to thunder and fireworks as well.
Thundershirt to the rescue!

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post #4296 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You are right, some guys just don't drive their receivers like others do. See if you have an issue before you fix it Be careful in the meantime.
Thanks, what's the absolute max temp I should not reach? Is it 110F as stated before? And also should I measure at a specific volume level, say -15db, to make sure I am generating enough heat for measurement?

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post #4297 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
Thanks, what's the absolute max temp I should not reach? Is it 110F as stated before? And also should I measure at a specific volume level, say -15db, to make sure I am generating enough heat for measurement?
The heat is primarily generated by the video card, not the on board amps.
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post #4298 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The heat is primarily generated by the video card, not the on board amps.
Yeah that makes sense because I just checked in a -33db volume and it's a little hot. Anyway I'll get the IR gun and check as a first step and see what to do from there.

Thanks.

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post #4299 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
Yeah that makes sense because I just checked in a -33db volume and it's a little hot. Anyway I'll get the IR gun and check as a first step and see what to do from there.

Thanks.
IR gun is nice to have (although doubt it will be helpful given how the AVR is located) ... but for peace of mind .. you're going to want to add a fan or two to exhaust the warm air.
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post #4300 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
IR gun is nice to have (although doubt it will be helpful given how the AVR is located) ... but for peace of mind .. you're going to want to add a fan or two to exhaust the warm air.
I'll pull out the AVR after it has worked for a while to measure the top cover temp, it won't be 100% but it will give me a good estimate I assume. Can you comment on the max acceptable temp please?

If I cross that temp, I have an idea on how to move the shelf above it a few inches up and place a T8 on top of the 3400H.

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post #4301 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
I'll pull out the AVR after it has worked for a while to measure the top cover temp, it won't be 100% but it will give me a good estimate I assume. Can you comment on the max acceptable temp please?

If I cross that temp, I have an idea on how to move the shelf above it a few inches up and place a T8 on top of the 3400H.
No idea what the max temp is; however, most try to keep it below 110F.
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post #4302 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 01:19 PM
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Thank you sir.

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post #4303 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No idea what the max temp is; however, most try to keep it below 110F.
BTW, I just got an idea, you mentioned that the heat is generated by the video card.

Is setting the video output mode to "Bypass" instead of "Auto" a good temp workaround to avoid heat generation? I don't use any upscaling or image modes anyway, and I'm aware that the only feature I'll lose by this is the OSD overlay.

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post #4304 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
BTW, I just got an idea, you mentioned that the heat is generated by the video card.

Is setting the video output mode to "Bypass" instead of "Auto" a good temp workaround to avoid heat generation? I don't use any upscaling or image modes anyway, and I'm aware that the only feature I'll lose by this is the OSD overlay.
AFAIK, no.
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post #4305 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The heat is primarily generated by the video card, not the on board amps.


So if your not using the warranty onboard vide then your probably ok


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post #4306 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
Thank you sir.

I got one of these for my X6400H:
https://www.houzz.com/product/699774...CABEgJwXvD_BwE


It works quite well. The one I got is the rear discharge model. I think they have three levels of what I basically the same unit. The mid grade is what I got with automated fan speed versus temperature. It gets pretty loud when it is at full speed (meaning audible from 3 feet, but no0t from my listening position 12 feet away), but on the lowest two speeds it is all but inaudible from 3 feet away.
Of course this would work the best if there is some opening in the back of the cabinet to exhaust the heat through. Of course you will also need the room on the top of the receiver to fit the cooler. About 1 3/8 inches.
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post #4307 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
I'll pull out the AVR after it has worked for a while to measure the top cover temp, it won't be 100% but it will give me a good estimate I assume. Can you comment on the max acceptable temp please?

If I cross that temp, I have an idea on how to move the shelf above it a few inches up and place a T8 on top of the 3400H.
FWIW, I have just 2-1/4 inches in height clearance for my AVR-X8500H and, at barely one inch, even less clearance to the sides than in your setup. But my AIRCOM T8 keeps it cool as a cucumber without even breaking a sweat (to mix a metaphor).





If you can gain just another 3/4 inch or so in height for your AVR compartment, you will have room to add a T8 yourself and can stop worrying about the heat. Take it from Jimmy:


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post #4308 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The heat is primarily generated by the video card, not the on board amps.
In most Denon AVR's, at least the upper models, the Video card, that handles analog video, is a good sized board with only one IC of any size. it is doubtful that it generates much heat. The heat output when the unit isn't playing is likely greatest from the Digital board which is the top, large board in the unit. Both audio digital processing (but not DAC's) and video digital processing happen in that board. The heat output is likely fairly constant. It's fed by a SWPS power supply that has perhaps at most a 60W max output.

There is also a steady-state output of heat from the amplifier stages, linear power supply and the transformer. At steady state the heat from the amplifier sections may be a little less than from the digital board. When an AVR is in use, the amplifier stages, linear power supply and transformer will put out most of the heat.

As you say, fans are a great idea. While an AVR will likely shutdown before it overheats to destruction, the steady heat at lesser temperature levels slowly weakens many of the components, especially capacitors.
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post #4309 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 03:14 PM
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Thundershirt to the rescue!
Or maybe not. It didn't have any effect on one of our Bullmastiff rescues, who was very spooky. If you can borrow one to see if helps I'd recommend doing that before laying out the money to buy one. Good luck.
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post #4310 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
Thanks, good suggestion, will I be able to measure the temp through the 1" clearance?

EDIT
Unfortunately, this item does not ship to my country. Is there anywhere else I can order it online please?
Hey Zach,

There is a place for your location in the Profile setting [User CP/Control Panel/Your Profile/Edit Your Details/Location] which could help posters when giving answers, unless of course you prefer to keep it to yourself

All the best,
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post #4311 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Thundershirt to the rescue!
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Originally Posted by zinfella View Post
Or maybe not. It didn't have any effect on one of our Bullmastiff rescues, who was very spooky. If you can borrow one to see if helps I'd recommend doing that before laying out the money to buy one. Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestion. We tried it a while ago. Seemed to help at first. Then it wore out its welcome. No pun intended. I or my wife usually hold her as she actually faints at time. Really scary stuff. As far as the calibration goes, my wife either takes her to another room and turns on the TV there, or take her for a walk which she loves.

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post #4312 of 13375 Old 03-25-2018, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppasteur View Post
I got one of these for my X6400H:
https://www.houzz.com/product/699774...CABEgJwXvD_BwE


It works quite well. The one I got is the rear discharge model. I think they have three levels of what I basically the same unit. The mid grade is what I got with automated fan speed versus temperature. It gets pretty loud when it is at full speed (meaning audible from 3 feet, but no0t from my listening position 12 feet away), but on the lowest two speeds it is all but inaudible from 3 feet away.
Of course this would work the best if there is some opening in the back of the cabinet to exhaust the heat through. Of course you will also need the room on the top of the receiver to fit the cooler. About 1 3/8 inches.
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind

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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
FWIW, I have just 2-1/4 inches in height clearance for my AVR-X8500H and, at barely one inch, even less clearance to the sides than in your setup. But my AIRCOM T8 keeps it cool as a cucumber without even breaking a sweat (to mix a metaphor).





If you can gain just another 3/4 inch or so in height for your AVR compartment, you will have room to add a T8 yourself and can stop worrying about the heat. Take it from Jimmy:


https://youtu.be/4t4YiXWPBpo
Wow that is a tight fit! But impressive that it manages to keep everything nice and cool. I'll see what I can do about that shelf, I really like the Infinity T8 solution.

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Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
Hey Zach,

There is a place for your location in the Profile setting [User CP/Control Panel/Your Profile/Edit Your Details/Location] which could help posters when giving answers, unless of course you prefer to keep it to yourself

All the best,
Thanks, I edited my location.
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post #4313 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zach_N85 View Post
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind



Wow that is a tight fit! But impressive that it manages to keep everything nice and cool. I'll see what I can do about that shelf, I really like the Infinity T8 solution.



Thanks, I edited my location.
The Infinity T8 (rear exhaust) and T10 (front exhaust) only need 1.5" of clearance.
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post #4314 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 06:27 AM
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There are obviously many technological and feature advancements in the newer unit, so I assume your question relates to an apples-to-apples comparison of the two AVR's in native playback of lossless 5.1 audio (i.e., without respect to upmixing). One element that may impact on the AQ here is the acoustic calibration upgrade in the AVR-X3400H to Audyssey MultEQ XT32 from the AVR-3808CI's MultEQ XT. However, whether this will result in an audible difference may depend on your room and speakers.

Perhaps someone who is familiar with the 3808CI can provide a more informed response.
I just upgraded from the 3808ci to the X3400H.

The X3400H is indeed a great upgrade from the 3808 if you won't be needed anything higher than 5.1.2. And no more than a second zone. I'm running a single pair of Atmos ceiling speakers and really can't do anything more than that in my room.

I did not need 9 amps or any zones so the X6400H (or even the X4400H) would be massive overkill for me.

SQ-wise, all that alpha processing mumbo-jumbo is just marketing-speak IMHO. Both use the same 32-Bit DAC. The X3400H sounds great! I didn't use the older Audyssey in the 3808. It just didn't sound right to me. That is all changed with Audyssey XT32. I am using it with the optional $20 app (which has its issues but still gives you more control than without it) and am loving how it sounds so far.

That plus having HEOS / Airplay built-in was more than enough justification for me. Plus being able to run 4k video through it.

I'm very happy with the upgrade and have my 3808 up on the bay now. Man, that thing really was a beast. Weighs 44 lbs! Worked perfectly without issue for nearly a decade. I'm hoping for the same relibility with the X3400H!

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post #4315 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 07:08 AM
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I just upgraded from the 3808ci to the X3400H.

I'm very happy with the upgrade and have my 3808 up on the bay now. Man, that thing really was a beast. Weighs 44 lbs! Worked perfectly without issue for nearly a decade. I'm hoping for the same relibility with the X3400H!
Posh, what a lightweight! The X8500H tips the scales at over 51 lbs.

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post #4316 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The heat is primarily generated by the video card, not the on board amps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelcoker View Post
So if your not using the warranty onboard vide then your probably ok
This makes zero sense to me. My X4400h is at its hottest is when I am driving music to all of my speakers (5.2.4) via AirPlay with the TV off (always in multi-ch stereo). And I mean real hot. So hot that it led me to purchase the AC Aircom Infinity T8. Same manufacturer/product line @ppasteur mentioned.

With a top-end temperature on my T8 set to 85F, my AVR will hover around 76-78F while watching movies (ATMOS or otherwise, passed through) and playing video games, with the T8 running at level 1 or 2 fan speed (out of 6). After listening to music for over an hour on Saturday, at the same volume level I listen to movies, my AVR was pushing 83-84F with the T8's fans running at the maximum speed of 6 to maintain that temperature. The Aircom was working hard, but was proving to be money well spent.

Though that brings me back full-circle. How could the video processor pump out more heat than the amps, when in my use-case the AVR gets its hottest when it isn't processing any video at all?

Unless I am misunderstanding something along the way. Though I do understand my example above is very anecdotal and highly dependent upon all channels being driven equally as hard in multi-ch stereo mode.

Also, take this post as another +1 to AC Infinity Aircom products!
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post #4317 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DJ Lushious View Post
This makes zero sense to me. My X4400h is at its hottest is when I am driving music to all of my speakers (5.2.4) via AirPlay with the TV off (always in multi-ch stereo). And I mean real hot. So hot that it led me to purchase the AC Aircom Infinity T8. Same manufacturer/product line @ppasteur mentioned.

With a top-end temperature on my T8 set to 85F, my AVR will hover around 76-78F while watching movies (ATMOS or otherwise, passed through) and playing video games, with the T8 running at level 1 or 2 fan speed (out of 6). After listening to music for over an hour on Saturday, at the same volume level I listen to movies, my AVR was pushing 83-84F with the T8's fans running at the maximum speed of 6 to maintain that temperature. The Aircom was working hard, but was proving to be money well spent.

Though that brings me back full-circle. How could the video processor pump out more heat than the amps, when in my use-case the AVR gets its hottest when it isn't processing any video at all?

Unless I am misunderstanding something along the way. Though I do understand my example above is very anecdotal and highly dependent upon all channels being driven equally as hard in multi-ch stereo mode.

Also, take this post as another +1 to AC Infinity Aircom products!
Whether it's the video card or another digital card that is producing the heat, the same amount of heat is generally realized even when external amps are being used.
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post #4318 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Whether it's the video card or another digital card that is producing the heat, the same amount of heat is generally realized even when external amps are being used.
I am not quite understanding your statement here. If the video processor isn't processing any data, then its heat output should be much less than if it were processing a full HDMI 2.0b signal.
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post #4319 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 02:25 PM
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I got an Atmos demo disk on ebay. Some are charging way more than reasonable but I found a seller more reasonable and got one. They are helpful as you can get a variety of sample scenes and music and test patterns. I wish Dolby would direct sell these, same with dts.
Those disks are a cheap, helpful solution for sure
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post #4320 of 13375 Old 03-26-2018, 02:41 PM
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Posh, what a lightweight! The X8500H tips the scales at over 51 lbs.
Wow!

LG OLED55C6P, Panasonic UB-820, Sony UBP-X800, Zidoo X9S, Denon AVR-X3400H, vintage Carver M1.0T amp, Axiom M60v3 Mains, VP100 Center & M2v3 Surrounds. Original SVS 20-39pci Cylinder sub. Polk RC60i Top Middle Atmos. Desktop system: Fully restored (by me) vintage Marantz 2275 stereo receiver from 1976 driving a pair of Chane A1.5s, RSL Speedwoofer 10S, MiniDSP DDRC-24 (Dirac Live).
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