"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 190 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5671 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 08:04 AM
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Ah so it is coming? I read a while back that it never was.

I never could fix the HDR color banding issue with either of my game consoles. I had a noticeable change in a positive way with the PQ once I bypassed the receiver.

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post #5672 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
First ... no price discussion.

Second .. the S930H uses the lower version of Audyssey MultEQ so you would be down grading audio quality going from a "CI" model to a "S" model. It also only comes with a 2 year warranty. The X2400H would be the lateral move in audio quality and comes with a 3 year warranty. Review post 1 of this thread to ensure the model you select will meet your feature/input/output requirements.

Third ... running sources to the TV would result in only non-HD audio being passed back to the AVR using either optical or ARC, so you would be better served upgrading to a more current AVR.
I'm not sure I'd be able to hear the difference in Audyssey MultEQ. Too many years with heavy metal blasting me on subway commutes

HDCP 2.2 seems to be the biggest shortcoming of the 2313CI when it comes to 4K. Unless there's a way to get around this that I'm missing, it seems that a lesser Audyssey MultEQ is worth the trade.

Thanks for the note on running audio back to the AVR from a TV. I'd run into that years ago when I found my Sony flatscreen wasn't passing HD audio back. I guess there's still no reason for TV makers to upgrade that audio path.
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post #5673 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 08:52 AM
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Hi all, getting my ELAC center channel speaker delivered today to complete my 3.0 set up.
I have the Denon AVR-X1400H and 99% of my use is watching new 4K HDR movies via Apple TV 4K.

Now, for a 3.0 system, I’m confused as to what sound mode I should pick on the Denon receiver when I cycle through them using the Movie button on the remote - should I pick Dolby Digital? DTS? Multichannel In? Etc etc. - what sounds best on a 3.0 system?

I’m also confused if I should select Dolby Digital 5.1 on the Apple TV 4K audio settings or keep it at Best Quality Available.

Any help would be appreciated!
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post #5674 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 10:25 AM
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Will X4400 do 5.2.4?

Hi guys, I apologize if this is a stupid question, I tried searching but couldn't find the answer. I have an X4400. I know if you want to go more than 9 speakers you need an external amp. I'm looking to do 5.2.4. Will the X4400 do 7 speakers (5 front and surround plus 4 atmos) AND 2 subs, or will I need a separate amp for the second sub?
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post #5675 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
Hi guys, I apologize if this is a stupid question, I tried searching but couldn't find the answer. I have an X4400. I know if you want to go more than 9 speakers you need an external amp. I'm looking to do 5.2.4. Will the X4400 do 7 speakers (5 front and surround plus 4 atmos) AND 2 subs, or will I need a separate amp for the second sub?
The subs have their own amps so the 4400 will do 5.2.4. I’m running 5.1.4 with an open sub connector. This is maxed out.

Joe in West Los Angeles, CA
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post #5676 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
The real question is would I be able to hear the difference....and would that difference, if I were able to actually hear it which I am honestly dubious that I would, be worth almost $2000...for me the answer is no.
Most likely yes. You should select better dealers as both models should be fairly comparably priced at this stage ... possibly the X7200WA a few hundred more but certainly not $2000 more in the USA for a model that is 3 years old.

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 05-28-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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post #5677 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
I sure am glad that none of the items on that list are important to me...certainly not for almost twice the cost of a 6400...
You would have to see the "beast" in person, you look at it and you know it is different.
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post #5678 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
Hi guys, I apologize if this is a stupid question, I tried searching but couldn't find the answer. I have an X4400. I know if you want to go more than 9 speakers you need an external amp. I'm looking to do 5.2.4. Will the X4400 do 7 speakers (5 front and surround plus 4 atmos) AND 2 subs, or will I need a separate amp for the second sub?
AVRs are not designed to power subs, therefore it doesn't matter how many you connect to the sub pre-outs. The X4400H is the lowest 9CH model that can operate 9CH.

There is a lot of helpful information provided in the first 8 posts of this thread.
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post #5679 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thatJohann View Post
Ok, so for a 3.0 system, I should pick either Dolby Digital or DTS multi channel. Now about the DTS part, I notice there’s a couple of DTS sound modes, is DTS Neural X the best one for a 3.0? Or should I pick any other DTS mode?
With a 3.0 setup, doesn't really matter for DTS.
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post #5680 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PJL99 View Post
There is a non-Denon developed HEOS app in the Windows store that works well for HEOS control functions. It's called "HEOS Remote."
Thanks for this, it's exactly what I needed.

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post #5681 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Most likely yes. You should select better dealers as both models should be fairly comparably priced at this stage ... possibly the X7200WA a few hundred more but certainly not $2000 more in the USA for a model that is 3 years old.
I was comparing current models, so the 6400 to the 8500...and the difference is around 2k. In an a/b comparison my old ears would never hear the difference....

Mark
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post #5682 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
I was comparing current models, so the 6400 to the 8500...and the difference is around 2k. In an a/b comparison my old ears would never hear the difference....
They actually likely would .. but of course, if not within the budget and you have no need for the additional features (beyond better audio quality) offered on the X8500H (eg. 13CH with Front Wide speakers) then moot point.

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post #5683 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You would have to see the "beast" in person, you look at it and you know it is different.
The difference in how they look is rather immaterial to me. The only question is can I hear or see (video output quality) the difference. All my gear is in an equipment room behind the wall my screen is mounted on so no one ever sees the gear anyway...
Some folks want the biggest and best and don’t mind paying the price to get it. Nothing wrong with that...choice is good and everybody’s wants and needs are different.

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post #5684 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 12:30 PM
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^ He didn't mean you care about looks, per se; he meant when you see the size of the 7200 and the way it's built (you'd surely see that, even *if* you didn't hear it), you would know it's in a different league. Even if you knew nothing technical about it, it's obviously "different".
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post #5685 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
^ He didn't mean you care about looks, per se; he meant when you see the size of the 7200 and the way it's built (you'd surely see that, even *if* you didn't hear it), you would know it's in a different league. Even if you knew nothing technical about it, it's obviously "different".
I knew what he meant... but you know the old saying...you can’t judge a book by its cover...big and heavy doesn’t necessarily mean better, even with AVR’s. Not saying it’s not better, in fact I’m sure it is...my point is for me personally, going from 95% to 98%, basically getting that x%, whatever “x” is, amount of performance is simply not worth the delta in price between the 6400 and the 8500. I certainly understand that for some it is.

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post #5686 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 01:05 PM
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^ It's OK, I get it. e.g. I went with the X4400 for 1/3 the price (no exaggeration) locally of the Marantz 7012, the "sister model" to the X4400, with supposedly better audio. It *may* be different, but I also moved from the Marantz 7702 pre-pro with "the same" output circuitry as the 7012, to the X4400 used as a pre-pro. Honestly, with my amplifiers placed close to the AVR, I don't notice any difference for my usual uses (movies, games). There is a difference with mch music, but I rarely listen to that. (And I don't use any AVR or pre-pro for stereo music, likely never will.)
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Originally Posted by geodon005 View Post
I subscribe to the CD-quality stream on Tidal, and can listen to it on my 4400H via HEOS or my Apple TV 4K. They both sound good, but (I know, user preference and all that) technically speaking, which should sound better? HEOS shows a signal of FLAC 44.1 kHz 16-bit, and Apple TV shows a signal of PCM 48kHz.

bump

Any audio experts out there that can advise?
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post #5688 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 04:57 PM
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7200WA Ordered!

Went for the flagship! Be here Friday.

Any reason not to update FW if available?

thx

bob
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post #5689 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Went for the flagship! Be here Friday.

Any reason not to update FW if available?

thx

bob
Nope.
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post #5690 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 09:08 PM
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Not sure on amp assign

I'm not entirely sure what to set the amp assign to on a x4400h. My speaker configuration is 5.1.4. The front height speakers are atmos enabled bounce off the ceiling speakers. The rear height speakers are in ceiling. For pure technical correctness, I should set amp assign to Front Dolby & Top Rear. However, this setting will not do auro 3D. To have both atmos and auro, I could do either Front Dolby & Rear Height, Front Height & Rear Height, or Front Dolby & Surround Dolby. What is the correct setting for my setup, or does it even matter which one I choose?
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post #5691 of 11435 Old 05-28-2018, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sddp View Post
All that technology and still there are some limitations.
What a let down. I have found this super frustrating as my receiver is about 20' away and can't see the read out well (or at all).
The only way around this is to use the Denon App on my iPhone and I can see/set the volume.
I was really hoping with so much technological advancement in computers, home theater especially that this would have been addressed somehow.
It was addressed, by higher models than what you have. Your problem is not about "technological advancement", but features/price ratio. All manufacturers have products that are on various levels of features, you just happen to have a product that does not implement the feature that you want...
That's it!
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post #5692 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 02:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ToBeFrank View Post
I'm not entirely sure what to set the amp assign to on a x4400h. My speaker configuration is 5.1.4. The front height speakers are atmos enabled bounce off the ceiling speakers. The rear height speakers are in ceiling. For pure technical correctness, I should set amp assign to Front Dolby & Top Rear. However, this setting will not do auro 3D. To have both atmos and auro, I could do either Front Dolby & Rear Height, Front Height & Rear Height, or Front Dolby & Surround Dolby. What is the correct setting for my setup, or does it even matter which one I choose?
Front Dolby + Rear Height
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post #5693 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 05:35 AM
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Well that was easy thanks!

Next question please.

I've got a Virgin Cable box currently set to 1080p as I find the upscaled image better through the TV than the box.

How is the upscaling in the Denon is it worth routing it that way or will the TV have a better built in scaler?
with my setup (i have fios and a 110” pj screen) and my eyes, the deinterlacing on the denon (i have a 3400) is superior to the cable box, and it’s not really close. the scaling is closer, but still better. as far as avr vs. pj processing, it is a bit of a wash.

over the years, i have found i get the “best results” from any “cable source” by sending a native signal. unfortunately, that isn’t even in a hidden menu in the new fios boxes. you also have to deal with a new handshake whenever the source resolution changes.

USUALLY the best option out of a cable box (assuming you are letting it pick one) is 1080i. again, my experience and my experience only, but cable boxes generally have crappy de-interlacers.
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my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #5694 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 05:43 AM
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Hi Guys,

Can someone please advise if Zone 2 and Zone 3 in Denon x 3400h / 4400h can be used together to power 4 speakers/Channel?

Each of the 4 speakers are is 40W, 8 Ohm.

Thanks
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post #5695 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Hi Guys,

Can someone please advise if Zone 2 and Zone 3 in Denon x 3400h / 4400h can be used together to power 4 speakers/Channel?

Each of the 4 speakers are is 40W, 8 Ohm.

Thanks
As noted in post 1 of this thread ... the X3400H only features Zone 2 while the X4400H features Zone 2 and Zone 3 and as a 9CH model, the X4400H can do powered 5.1 + Zone 2 + Zone 3. Connecting an impedance matching speaker selector to each of the Zone 2 and Zone 3 speaker posts will allow you to run 2 sets of speakers for each Zone.
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post #5696 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 10:23 AM
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jd and batpig. for future reference.

not directly related to the avr’s, but if someone needs/wants to go with the setup i did (new avr feeding old avr amps), i was able to use one of these guys:

https://dlidirect.com/products/iot-power-relay

to trigger the second avr from the first.

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post #5697 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
It was addressed, by higher models than what you have. Your problem is not about "technological advancement", but features/price ratio. All manufacturers have products that are on various levels of features, you just happen to have a product that does not implement the feature that you want...
That's it!
I stand corrected.
Although I thought the 6400 would have been considered a higher model status.

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post #5698 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post
jd and batpig. for future reference.

not directly related to the avr’s, but if someone needs/wants to go with the setup i did (new avr feeding old avr amps), i was able to use one of these guys:

https://dlidirect.com/products/iot-power-relay

to trigger the second avr from the first.
Thanks. Smart power strips work as well.
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post #5699 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Yes, using either the HEOS app or asking Alexa to do it but as long as <Network Control> is left at the factory default setting of "Always On."
OK, one more HEOS question (hopefully just one more). If I'm listening to the radio (yes I still do that sometimes) or a source connected to the AVR, can that source be sent to other HEOS enabled speakers in the house?

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post #5700 of 11435 Old 05-29-2018, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mustang5o View Post
OK, one more HEOS question (hopefully just one more). If I'm listening to the radio (yes I still do that sometimes) or a source connected to the AVR, can that source be sent to other HEOS enabled speakers in the house?
Yup, with the same source limitations as what can be passed to Zone 2 (ie. on the X6400H, you can pass external HDMI sources passing stereo 2.0 audio).
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