"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 236 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7051 of 12286 Old 07-27-2018, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolledoff View Post
When I switch from Apple TV to Spotify Connect, the volume is invariably too high. Is there a way to set up individual startup volumes for each of those two sources apart from specifying source input gain (-12db to +12db)?
Use two separate QUICK SELECT buttons.
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post #7052 of 12286 Old 07-27-2018, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzenheimer View Post
Yes it was connected up at the time of the storm. Comcast coax to X1 box; HDMI out of box into HDMI input on Denon. What do you think happened?
Just a guess but it's common for electricity to follow the caox's shielding up the cable if not grounded properly to earth ground. Cable and Satellite installers are usually good at handing that properly but not always. The fact that your cable box is still working makes it less likely but it's something to double check just in case.

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post #7053 of 12286 Old 07-28-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Use two separate QUICK SELECT buttons.
Will that work even if I can't use the remote to start the music? Often times I just remote start the receiver by playing Spotify Connect on my phone from another room.
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post #7054 of 12286 Old 07-28-2018, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolledoff View Post
Will that work even if I can't use the remote to start the music? Often times I just remote start the receiver by playing Spotify Connect on my phone from another room.
Not for that use case no, rather the start volume would just be whatever you have it set to on the AVR.
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post #7055 of 12286 Old 07-28-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Not for that use case no, rather the start volume would just be whatever you have it set to on the AVR.
That's a bummer!
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post #7056 of 12286 Old 07-28-2018, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Just a guess but it's common for electricity to follow the caox's shielding up the cable if not grounded properly to earth ground. Cable and Satellite installers are usually good at handing that properly but not always. The fact that your cable box is still working makes it less likely but it's something to double check just in case.
Yes that is very important, but you are right some installers do not do it.....
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post #7057 of 12286 Old 07-28-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Yes that is very important, but you are right some installers do not do it.....
My last DirecTV install guy said they always do it but then criticized the cable mgmt job the last DirecTV guy did. That tells me something. He took more pride in his work than the other guy did. That's a huge part with any install job regardless of the training.
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post #7058 of 12286 Old 07-28-2018, 02:03 PM
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I am also waiting on the X4400 to drop. I was tempted to go to the Marantz SR6012, it is already on sale as low as $835, but the Porthole look puts me off. I am getting anxious as my new Samsung 75” Q8 is delivering this week. Also upgrading to Dolby Atmos starting with two height speakers to go with my current 5.2, but may add 3&4 also. It is nice to have an electrician in the family.

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post #7059 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 05:19 AM
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Denon AVR keeps turning off sub channel

I have a relatively new Denon X3400H which replaced my old Denon X3313C in March.

Sick of the lack of bass from my Klipsch subwoofer I upgraded to a HSU sub a few weeks ago.

It turns out that my lack of bass may not have been the sub but the receivers themselves.

After getting the sub set up I flipped on the receiver one day and played something and noticed the bass did not have the punch I expected. I wandered over to the sub and even though the green light was on indicating it was receiving signal from the receiver there was nothing happening there.

I cranked the volume on the sub to max and I could just barely detect sound. That volume on the HSU should have shaken the house apart.

I unplugged the sub from the wall power (mains) and plugged it back in and suddenly I had all sorts of base coming out of the sub again.

This scenario has happened to me several times now. It happens with both the Klipsch sub and the HSU sub.

The power switch on the subs are both in "standby" mode so they turn on when the sub starts sending out LFE data.

I have the sub connected with a good Monoprice RCA cable (one of the RG6 types shown here https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2683.) I even swapped to a new cable with no difference.

I am convinced that this problem also happened with my old receiver too. That Klipsch sub has more punch than I recall when I have it hooked up and running and know it's running properly. I was expecting it to always be there putting out bass when it wasn't and maybe not for years. I cannot test the old receiver as I sold it.

When it's working the opening of Edge of Tomorrow is amazing. When it's not, it's totally underwhelming and that's how I discovered this problem. The rest of my speakers are pretty good but not that good.

Any theories as to why this keeps happening?

I have no sub volume adjustment happening; it's off on the Denon.

My crossover is set to 90Hz on the Denon.

All speakers are set to small on the Denon.

The bass output is all + LFE.

All I do to "fix" this problem is unplug the main power on the sub while the receiver is powered on, wait about 15 seconds, then plug it back in. Voila! - bass is back!

Cheers!

TJ
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post #7060 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayZorFist View Post

Any theories as to why this keeps happening?

TJ
You need to set the gain (volume) of the subwoofer lower, so that the receiver would send higher signal to the subwoofer, high enough to turn it on even when watching at lower volumes.

If you set the subwoofer gain too high, Audyssey will assign a very low signal level for LFE upon calibration, thus causing your problem.
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post #7061 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
You need to set the gain (volume) of the subwoofer lower, so that the receiver would send higher signal to the subwoofer, high enough to turn it on even when watching at lower volumes.

If you set the subwoofer gain too high, Audyssey will assign a very low signal level for LFE upon calibration, thus causing your problem.

When I did the Audyssey calibration I had the sub at minimum volume. Anything else and Audyssee said it was too loud.


This still does not explain why sometimes I'm getting nothing even at reference levels on the receiver and at the "normal" sub volume (9-10 o'clock) and why it magically fixes itself when I unplug/re-plug the sub from/to the wall outlet. I can do this stupid "reset" even at lower levels for casual listening to music.

Once the receiver "resets" somehow after reconnecting the sub it's fine at all volume levels.
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post #7062 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayZorFist View Post
When I did the Audyssey calibration I had the sub at minimum volume. Anything else and Audyssee said it was too loud.


This still does not explain why sometimes I'm getting nothing even at reference levels on the receiver and at the "normal" sub volume (9-10 o'clock) and why it magically fixes itself when I unplug/re-plug the sub from/to the wall outlet. I can do this stupid "reset" even at lower levels for casual listening to music.

Once the receiver "resets" somehow after reconnecting the sub it's fine at all volume levels.
I don’t know if it will help, but try leaving your sub on all the time, rather than using standby mode.
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post #7063 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 12:03 PM
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Coming from a 17-18 year old Sony STB-930
I just spent 3 weeks with my new x3400h.

I have a 5.1 system with large fronts ( set to small )
Set up was fairly simple as far as getting things working as intended.

50% Movies
30% mix of MKV files on USB, Netflix & Youtube on LG OLED apps.
20 % Flac Audio via USB


Liked:
- room correction did a great job, good isolation of channels, most noticeable while listening to DTS
- Blutooth & WIFI
- HDMI 4k Passthrough
- Pre Outs ( although i have no need for them )

Disliked:
- No Balls
- UI menu system
- would not auto select correct mode for current input signal, mainly just 2 ch stereo, 5.1 AC3 & DTS, annoying issue where it would take a 5.1 signal and output 7.1, i messed with everything i could but this kept happening randomly, updated firmware, redid room correction, factory reset etc.. nothing seemed to fix it, i spent more time trying to simply get the correct output mode, my old Sony has no issues like this, it would output PCM, AC3, DTS without a hitch ( whatever the signal was )
- Have to crank volume way up ( -10 to +10 ) pushing close to the avr's limit ( my old avr produces this amount of power at 30% )
- Runs super hot ( sitting on a wide open table )
- could not read the front display from seating position.
- expensive for what you get ( $799, $ 887 CAD after taxes )
- Cheapo remote and plastic front & knobs on AVR
- took me a while to get my Subwoofer levels correct, pretty annoying actually, oin my old avr i just pull up a quick "levels" menu, tweak and it would stay there for every source or listening mode, the Denon was a mess as far as i'm concerned.

After returning the Denon AVR i decided to try a Pioneer SC-LX502 for $100 less than the Denon.
I set that up and gave it a good whirl for about 10 days.

what i like about the pioneer:

- Has more balls than the denon, quite a bit more actually ( even though specs dont indicate it )
- 4k HDMI passthrough ( HDR & HLG ), this worked seemless even when avr was off or stby mode.
- Runs cool
- OK room correction
- easy to tweak configuration & levels afterwards ( including subwoofer )
- outputs correctly based on input signal ( this was a nice change from the denon )
- WIFI
- i can actually read the front display from my seating position.

Disliked:
- cheapo plastic front panel
- phone app could be improved
- some relay clicking noise( the denon did this as well but wasn't as noticeable )
- Still doesn't have near the raw power of my 18 year old Sony


I have now reconnected my old Sony and dont know if i can justify keeping the Pioneer, The Sony just plain works and packs plenty of power for my 5.1 setup.
I had though i would enjoy some new features after having the Sony for so long but it seems im giving up on actual listening enjoyment to get features i dont really need.

Bottom Line:
Not impressed with what we get for our $$ these days
The older Sony eats these Two for breakfast, the sound is just awesome.
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post #7064 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 12:22 PM
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HDMI 1 quit working

I have a 4400h and it has worked flawlessly from the beginning. We went out of town for one week and upon our return, HDMI 1 (Cable/Sat) no longer works. It gets no signal. The other HDMI inputs work fine. I tried different HDMI cables (not a 4k source so no issues with that). I even plugged a different device into HDMI 1 and still no dice. I did a reset, a soft reset, and a full microprocessor reset. Still not working. Is it time to contact Denon? Well within my 3 year warranty. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.
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post #7065 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 03:10 PM
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You could have had help from the cognoscenti with many of those "issues", had you posted here while you still owned it. Instead you'd got rid of it, and only announced those things when it's already too late - what's the use in that?
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post #7066 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanvans View Post
Disliked:
- No Balls
- UI menu system
- would not auto select correct mode for current input signal, mainly just 2 ch stereo, 5.1 AC3 & DTS, annoying issue where it would take a 5.1 signal and output 7.1, i messed with everything i could but this kept happening randomly, updated firmware, redid room correction, factory reset etc.. nothing seemed to fix it, i spent more time trying to simply get the correct output mode, my old Sony has no issues like this, it would output PCM, AC3, DTS without a hitch ( whatever the signal was )
1. You're likely trying to compare how little you raise the volume on the older model vs. the Denon which is not comparable as the Denon uses a logarithmic volume scale in which 50-70 is average volume for most sources.
2. DTS changed their decoder about 5 years ago such that a DTS 5.1 audio signal is upmixed to 7.1 when there is a 7.1. configured setup.
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post #7067 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smadwookiee View Post
I have a 4400h and it has worked flawlessly from the beginning. We went out of town for one week and upon our return, HDMI 1 (Cable/Sat) no longer works. It gets no signal. The other HDMI inputs work fine. I tried different HDMI cables (not a 4k source so no issues with that). I even plugged a different device into HDMI 1 and still no dice. I did a reset, a soft reset, and a full microprocessor reset. Still not working. Is it time to contact Denon? Well within my 3 year warranty. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.
Try doing a few microprocessor resets in a row and if still no joy, then yes, time to contact Denon for warranty repair.
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post #7068 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 05:06 PM
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I've run into an odd problem with my X3400 AVR. I had been using a set of Klipsch Quintet V speakers with an SVS sub-woofer. and Pioneer Front Dolby Atmos speakers. If a disc had Atmos and DTS-HD Maser audio tracks, using Audyssey Dynamic Volume on Light there wasn't much volume difference if I switched between the two modes. The dynamics, of course changed (although DTS Neural X does a nice job of expanding 5.1 to 5.1.2 sound). I just got a set of four SVS Prime Satellite speakers and an SVS Prime center speaker to match the sub-woofer. Audyssey XT32 did a very good job of calibration but now there is a significant difference in volume between Atmos and Dolby TrueHD and any DTS sound track. The DTS audio is a good bit louder. The same is true with Dolby + DTS Neural:X sound. If I turn Audyssey's Dynamic Volume off, of course I have to crank the volume level up but there is not nearly the same difference between the Dolby and DTS tracks. I did a complete reset of the X3400 but nothing changed. The SVS speakers are 5dbs less sensitive than the Klipsch Quintets so they naturally require move gain to get the most out them but that doesn't explain why the Ausyssey Dynamic Volume is pooching Dolby processed audio compared to DTS audio. Anyone have some thoughts or advice to give?
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post #7069 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 07:10 PM
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When you're coming from an older legacy receiver ( especially an 18 year old one) don't just set it up yourself and play the reviewer afterwards. That's not going to end well with all of the newer features and settings that can effect your sound( I know first hand coming from a 12 year old receiver myself.) There's the whole learning curve for Audyssey just on it's own with its own dedicated FAQ's thread as proof of that plus all of the loudness comparisons with no level matching between makes and probably differing gain structures.

Denon receivers bench test well. They always have. Denon promises 70 percent of their 2 channel ratings driving 5 channels. If you're having to go +10 on the Relative volume scale something else is definitely going on. Denon receivers default to the last sound mode setting you selected. If it's not selecting the native codec it's because you haven't chosen it previously. My X4300H always selects the native blu ray codec on playback. For satellite it depends on what's being sent and what I've previously chosen. The red and green sound mode buttons are your friend. The remotes a remote. I don't have any problems with it. It looks very similar to my OPPO remotes just lighter in weight. I memorized it's buttons I use most and the quick select buttons are my most used. I never touched the big buttons on my old receiver and barely touched the ones on the new one. As long as they aren't falling off or glowing in the dark I don't see the fascination with them needing to be made of metal.


No balls? The X3400H's predecessors bench and listening tests:

https://www.audioholics.com/av-recei...1/measurements

Bottom line is come ask for help before returning your receiver guys and gals. If the goal is to be some kind of first impressions reviewer get a YouTube channel. You'll have plenty of company. That post just makes me sad because help galore was waiting in these threads. I know because I got that help first hand when I bought mine. This is the biggest benefit buying Denon/Marantz over some of the other makes(Yamaha gets good support on AVS as well.) The in thread support and level of knowledge with the contributors here plus the first 8 post's sticky are invaluable help tools if they are used.
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Last edited by Madmax67; 07-29-2018 at 07:43 PM.
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post #7070 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 08:05 PM
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I replaced a 14 year old Non HDMI Denon Receiver with the X3400. I have Elemental Design front speakers and an SVS PB12 Sub. This is my first receiver with Lossless. I ran Audyssey and was testing some movies this evening. I've noticed my speakers now sound very harsh/bright where they didn't before. I have Acoustic Panels at the 1st Order Reflection points on the side walls.

Could this be a natural thing between this model Denon and my Elemental Design speakers, they way Audyssey EQd the System, the Lossless Audio, or something else? My last Denon was not bright at all with the speakers.

Any suggestions?
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post #7071 of 12286 Old 07-29-2018, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybradley View Post
I replaced a 14 year old Non HDMI Denon Receiver with the X3400. I have Elemental Design front speakers and an SVS PB12 Sub. This is my first receiver with Lossless. I ran Audyssey and was testing some movies this evening. I've noticed my speakers now sound very harsh/bright where they didn't before. I have Acoustic Panels at the 1st Order Reflection points on the side walls.

Could this be a natural thing between this model Denon and my Elemental Design speakers, they way Audyssey EQd the System, the Lossless Audio, or something else? My last Denon was not bright at all with the speakers.

Any suggestions?
Are you using the "FLAT/MUSIC" or "AUDYSSEY/REFERENCE" curve? Many people find the Flat curve to be harsh. Try the Reference Curve if you aren't already.
Another thing to try under the Audyssey settings is to toggle Dynamic Eq from whatever setting you have and see how that works.
Audyssey can be a whole thing in of itself.
Here is a guide on Audyssey:
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...ostcount=51803

You can try reposting your question in the Audyssey Forum.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...d-part-ii.html
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post #7072 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Bottom line is come ask for help before returning your receiver guys and gals. If the goal is to be some kind of first impressions reviewer get a YouTube channel. You'll have plenty of company. That post just makes me sad because help galore was waiting in these threads. I know because I got that help first hand when I bought mine. This is the biggest benefit buying Denon/Marantz over some of the other makes(Yamaha gets good support on AVS as well.) The in thread support and level of knowledge with the contributors here plus the first 8 post's sticky are invaluable help tools if they are used.
Thank-you for saying that. It's absolutely ridiculous what he did! . Ignore all the help, get things badly wrong, and then announce with obvious ignorance the "conclusions", all the time making sure that no-one had any chance to help him.

As you say, this is NOT a "review" thread. As for "no balls", well I'm confident his was a drive-by posting, he won't reply because he's not at all interested in having any kind of discussion. Just post "it's not good" to the owner's thread, like some kind of troll.
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post #7073 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X5200W is a step up from the X4400H in both build and features, the X6400H being the current replacement for it.
How exactly is it (the X6400H) a step up in build and features, besides having two xtra channels and 15 watt xtra pr. channel?

Will it matter if it only drives (8) surround speakers and (1) center channel and an external amp is used for the main speakers?

Thanks!

Jacob
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post #7074 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Thank-you for saying that. It's absolutely ridiculous what he did! . Ignore all the help, get things badly wrong, and then announce with obvious ignorance the "conclusions", all the time making sure that no-one had any chance to help him.

As you say, this is NOT a "review" thread. As for "no balls", well I'm confident his was a drive-by posting, he won't reply because he's not at all interested in having any kind of discussion. Just post "it's not good" to the owner's thread, like some kind of troll.
He has it all figured out now, don 't go trying to confuse him with facts!

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post #7075 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
How exactly is it (the X6400H) a step up in build and features, besides having two xtra channels and 15 watt xtra pr. channel?

Will it matter if it only drives (8) surround speakers and (1) center channel and an external amp is used for the main speakers?

Thanks!

Jacob
In addition to having a more robust power supply, it is also the lowest model that features a "Dialog Enhancer" setting as well as being mfr'd in Japan and being able to use the Surround Back Left speaker posts to power the Auro 3D VOG/Top Surround speaker vs. having to give up the Sub pre-out 2 and having to use an external amp.

It can drive as many as 11 speakers to as few as only 2. The fewer speakers connected, the more power is available for those speakers.

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 07-30-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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post #7076 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
In addition to having a more robust power supply, it is also the lowest model that features a "Dialog Enhancer" setting as well as being mfr'd in Japan and being able to use the Surround Back Left speaker posts to power the Auro 3D VOG/Top Surround speaker vs. having to give up the Sub pre-out 2 and having to use an external amp.

It can drive as many as 11 speakers to as few as only 2. The fewer speakers connected, the more power is available for those speakers.
Why is the build quality inside ignored?

You using amplification stages with a monolithic design with custom transistors with x6400H. Compare the top internal of the x4400H to the x6400H.




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post #7077 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Why is the build quality inside ignored?

You using amplification stages with a monolithic design with custom transistors with x6400H. Compare the top internal of the x4400H to the x6400H.
Indeed. Another reason why it's a step above the X4400H.
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post #7078 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by smadwookiee View Post
I have a 4400h and it has worked flawlessly from the beginning. We went out of town for one week and upon our return, HDMI 1 (Cable/Sat) no longer works. It gets no signal. The other HDMI inputs work fine. I tried different HDMI cables (not a 4k source so no issues with that). I even plugged a different device into HDMI 1 and still no dice. I did a reset, a soft reset, and a full microprocessor reset. Still not working. Is it time to contact Denon? Well within my 3 year warranty. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.
There is one more reset that you can do... Denon told me about it, I don't think it is even in the first 8 post of this thread. It helped me with my issue. It is a firmware reset/factory reset all in one. This will reset your firmware to the last firmware you had on the machine (fresh install), then it will do a factory reset... a very very very hard reset.. like out of the box. The process will take 8-10 minutes.

Hold "dimmer" and "setup" while powering up... should be self-explanatory from there.
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post #7079 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 10:32 AM
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wow. after all these years, i have finally found a use for hdmi passthrough!

i have a faux-k pj and a 720p tv in the same room. i don’t use the tv much, so i just would switch over the audio/monitor settings when i needed it.

after much playing around with quick selects, i finally rtfm and realized that the avr/tv sound setting is global (note: if i am wrong here, someone please point it out).

so i decided to give in and use passthrough. it works well, the only issue is that if i want to change sources, i have to use the actual remote to do that (instead of the app).

i guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #7080 of 12286 Old 07-30-2018, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
In addition to having a more robust power supply, it is also the lowest model that features a "Dialog Enhancer" setting as well as being mfr'd in Japan and being able to use the Surround Back Left speaker posts to power the Auro 3D VOG/Top Surround speaker vs. having to give up the Sub pre-out 2 and having to use an external amp.

It can drive as many as 11 speakers to as few as only 2. The fewer speakers connected, the more power is available for those speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Why is the build quality inside ignored?

You using amplification stages with a monolithic design with custom transistors with x6400H. Compare the top internal of the x4400H to the x6400H.



I plan to use an external amp (Lyngdorf TDAi 2170) for the Front L/R main channels, like I do now with the X52000W, in a 7.2.4 setup.
I am considering pulling out my old Denon AVR-4800 and use it to power center channel and top front surround channels (using the pre-ins and setting volume at max/as required to level match), in order to take some load of the X4400H. I think those channels are the most important?
If I do that, would it be wrong to assume I would not get any benefit of the X6400H descrete and more powerful amps? And the pre-amp section is probably the same (besides the few things mentioned by JD).

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