"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 248 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7411 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Graphic EQ disables Audyssey all together, while using the Tone Control only disables Audyssey Dynamic EQ.
Sorry I should've specified. I'm not using Audyssey at all. In this case, is there a difference between using graphic EQ and tone control to achieve the same sound, in terms of sound quality?
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post #7412 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by trinitynzxt View Post
Where is the place to set the bass to a flat EQ because I'm not seeing this. Sorry for all the questions very not good at setting this stuff up.
That's handled by Audyssey's correction filters. Unless you pay $20 to download and use the MultEQ mobile app you can't just effect one range of frequencies( called a house curve.) The default EQ setting for Audyssey for the whole band of frequencies is Reference for movies and the other option is Flat for music or for small rooms or well treated rooms with passive sound absorbers.


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Also I notice that even an low volume / low bass output my floors vibrate. I have laminate wood floors. Anyway to resolve this? My bass is in the forward firing position not downward firing.
Check your sub level offset within the receivers speaker/ manual setup settings. If the offset is close to 0dB you can lower it a bit although that's not ideal as you are setting a sub level under Reference level. During the Audyssey setup it will prompt you to set the gain knob of the subwoofer within 75db so as to not have too low an offset post Audyssey but either way the level will be the same just not the available headroom. The other option is to use the Low Frequency Contain feature which attenuates certain frequencies that pass easily through walls to be as prominent but that's not on your specific model. The other option is to just turn the sub's physical gain knob down a bit. Yet another option is to invest in a platform like the Auralex Subdude HT to physically isolate the sub from the floor. I use 2 with my dual subs on a wooden 2nd floor and it works extremely well in that regards limiting transference. Highly recommend on a wooden floor.


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Also instead of adjusting the volume on the bass itself and doing it through the gui in the avr is that the Levels where it shows all the speakers +/- db or do i do that somewhere else. I want to lower the bass as its just so over powering right now.
You do it there for universal changes or you do it under options channel level adjust for certain source devices( non universal.) Don't lower them too much though because your subwoofers auto on setting may not be as sensitive as it's based on the input voltage supplied by the receiver and it's level settings.

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post #7413 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by allisonok View Post
I noticed this problem tonight on my 6300. Someone else posted about it in the 2016 Denon thread as well. I downloaded the old firmware from Denon's website and installed it via USB and the problem went away. (I came here to see if it was affecting other models.)

Thanks for confirming the repro!
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post #7414 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trinitynzxt View Post
Also I notice that even an low volume / low bass output my floors vibrate. I have laminate wood floors. Anyway to resolve this? My bass is in the forward firing position not downward firing.
Bass frequencies cause everything to vibrate to some extent. That's one reason why they propagate so easily through walls to annoy neighbors in apartment buildings and town homes. It's worse if the bass frequencies include ones which match the resonant frequencies of parts of the construction.

Depending on the type of vibrations involved, you might be able to reduce them by improving the fastenings between your laminate flooring, the (plywood) subfloor and the supporting joists. Using rockwool insulation to densely fill any open spaces in walls, ceiling and floor sometimes helps in reducing bass propagation between rooms. Increasing the mass that has to move also lowers the resonant frequency, so something really heavy in the vicinity of the subwoofer might help, too. Like, well, sandbags.... or heavy bricks or the equivalent.
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post #7415 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolledoff View Post
Sorry I should've specified. I'm not using Audyssey at all. In this case, is there a difference between using graphic EQ and tone control to achieve the same sound, in terms of sound quality?
I would imagine using Graphic EQ would simply be more detailed as you're adjusting specific frequencies whereas Tone Control is more broad in the changes made.
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post #7416 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 06:01 PM
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Greetings: Anyone else have volume issues? I just reset my 4400H because it won’t go past -7 on ARC- or -1 on HTPC. Never did that before- ehen it did start I could lower volume on HTPC and turn back up and it would return. No it seems Denon won’t let me past -7 seriously this is dumb— hate this unit
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post #7417 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 06:50 PM
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Hi all, on the AVR-X3400H and probably all of the denon receivers, I hear the volume doesn't work like all other AVRS. the volume is very from 0-50, but then it gets louder faster from 50-98. something like that. So what volume number would you say is the halfway point on that AVR in terms of power?

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post #7418 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 08:51 PM
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Low pass filter : “Off” or maximum/highest frequency (eg. if 80hz-150hz, then set to 150hz) Note: This is not the same as the "LPF for LFE" setting on the AVR which should be left at it's factory default setting of 120hz



So my sub goes from 24hz to 200hz. if not in the LPF for LFE on the avr where do i make this change to set it to 200.

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post #7419 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 08:53 PM
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Once Audyssey Setup settings are saved and you are satisfied with the settings (ie. sub is not set to -12db), DO NOT make any further volume adjustments on the sub itself (other than possibly changing the power from "ON" to "AUTO"), rather adjust the sub volume using the remote control, the GUI menu.



So since I'm currently having to do -9 to -10 db i need to lower the volume on the sub and then re-run the audyssey setup correct.
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post #7420 of 12053 Old 08-12-2018, 09:34 PM
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I'm running into a problem on my X3400. I've been comparing two center speakers after running Audyssey calibrations and saved each configuration to separate USB flash drives. If I try to load either configuration I get a constant "Could not load configuration data. The file is corrupted or wrong" The .avr files saved without problems but there is something very odd. I did a save tonight at 9:50 PM Pacific Time. The saved config.avr file shows a modified date and time of 8/13/18 at 4:50 AM. That 6 hour time difference would, I believe, be Greenwich Mean Time. Maybe the X3400 is reading the time stamp incorrectly? Right now the only way that I can compare speakers now is to run Audyssey again when I make a change. This is beyond frustrating. Since Denon removed the web interface on the X3400, the least it can do is make sure that the USB drive process works. It doesn't!

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post #7421 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
Hi all, on the AVR-X3400H and probably all of the denon receivers, I hear the volume doesn't work like all other AVRS. the volume is very from 0-50, but then it gets louder faster from 50-98. something like that. So what volume number would you say is the halfway point on that AVR in terms of power?
Go setup>audio>volume and toggle the scale. That will set it to a standard that most avrs of any brand can be set to.
On your Onkyo, Miscellaneous>Volume Setup>Relative
That way, both your receivers will be on the same standard, and the numbers you see will mean the same thing on both.
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post #7422 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 05:16 AM
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I'm thinking about getting the X3400H to replace my ancient Onkyo. One thing I wonder about: Can I easily make an equalizer setting I can activate from the remote that will bring up the center channel level and damp down the other channels (and especially LFE) for TV shows and blu-rays where the sound engineers go crazy and make it virtually impossible to hear conversations over the background sound track? Some sort of profile I can turn on or off trivially?
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post #7423 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tomhorsley View Post
I'm thinking about getting the X3400H to replace my ancient Onkyo. One thing I wonder about: Can I easily make an equalizer setting I can activate from the remote that will bring up the center channel level and damp down the other channels (and especially LFE) for TV shows and blu-rays where the sound engineers go crazy and make it virtually impossible to hear conversations over the background sound track? Some sort of profile I can turn on or off trivially?
You can use an option called "Dialog Enhancer" to alleviate this issue. It is easily accessible by using the "options" button on the remote and then selecting "Dialog Enhancer" then you have a choice of off, low, med, high. In my experience it works rather well.

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post #7424 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
Hi all, on the AVR-X3400H and probably all of the denon receivers, I hear the volume doesn't work like all other AVRS. the volume is very from 0-50, but then it gets louder faster from 50-98. something like that. So what volume number would you say is the halfway point on that AVR in terms of power?
that is a “how long is a string?” question.

it all depends on the load (speakers) you are trying to drive. high efficiency speakers at reasonably close range, you could likely blow your eardrums out without reaching half power. low efficiency speakers at long range, opposite story.
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post #7425 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Go setup>audio>volume and toggle the scale. That will set it to a standard that most avrs of any brand can be set to.
On your Onkyo, Miscellaneous>Volume Setup>Relative
That way, both your receivers will be on the same standard, and the numbers you see will mean the same thing on both.
no that's not what I mean. I probably didn't explain it well. Here is what someone said "Denon and Marantz AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale such that there is very little volume at 50 and then it increases from there". so the volume isn't linear. if the volume of the 3400 goes from 0-98, the traditional "halfway" point isn't really at 49. If what that person said is correct, the halfway point should be somewhere higher. my question is what is that halfway point, roughly.

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post #7426 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
no that's not what I mean. I probably didn't explain it well. Here is what someone said "Denon and Marantz AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale such that there is very little volume at 50 and then it increases from there". so the volume isn't linear. if the volume of the 3400 goes from 0-98, the traditional "halfway" point isn't really at 49. If what that person said is correct, the halfway point should be somewhere higher. my question is what is that halfway point, roughly.

it is question that doesn't have an answer.



"halfway" to what?
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post #7427 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 07:44 AM
 
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I think hes asking what part of the dial would be a true 50% volume of reference. I suppose you could use an SPL meter to check that.
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post #7428 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
I think hes asking what part of the dial would be a true 50% volume of reference. I suppose you could use an SPL meter to check that.

you could, if everything was mastered the same. but it isn't.


you can do the math to see what it "should be". but that isn't going to necessarily going to give an answer that really means anything.
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post #7429 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
no that's not what I mean. I probably didn't explain it well. Here is what someone said "Denon and Marantz AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale such that there is very little volume at 50 and then it increases from there". so the volume isn't linear. if the volume of the 3400 goes from 0-98, the traditional "halfway" point isn't really at 49. If what that person said is correct, the halfway point should be somewhere higher. my question is what is that halfway point, roughly.
Well, the suggestion I made to switch the way the volume is displayed will show the volume in a brand agnostic definable way.
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post #7430 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
no that's not what I mean. I probably didn't explain it well. Here is what someone said "Denon and Marantz AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale such that there is very little volume at 50 and then it increases from there". so the volume isn't linear. if the volume of the 3400 goes from 0-98, the traditional "halfway" point isn't really at 49. If what that person said is correct, the halfway point should be somewhere higher. my question is what is that halfway point, roughly.
Let me see I can explain it. Our hearing is logarithmic so sound engineers measure levels in decibels, which are computed from exponents. From the definition of a decibel every 3dB change is half or double the power, but the the perception for humans is not half or twice as loud.

Audio engineers have adopted a specific sound pressure level as the "0 dB" reference and that is also Audyssey's target for calibration. Within normal residential rooms most of us find that is too loud so we listen at -40 dB to -20 dB.

The two scales that can be selected in the Denon AVRs are numeric (0 to 98 with no units) and logarithmic (-80 dB to +18 dB). The math is {dB scale} = {absolute scale - 80). A 1 dB difference is barely perceptible.

The problem with the concept of a halfway point is that if a human perceives a certain listening level with 1 watt into a speaker, double the perceived level requires about 10 watts, double that about 100 watts, and you can see how quickly things get out of hand. Fortunately 1 or 2 watts average, with 10 or 20 watts of power peaks, is surprisingly loud in average rooms.

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post #7431 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 08:00 AM
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i'm not asking for the exact middle, just roughly. but I guess nobody knows. I am asking because I'm used to watching a show on my HT1 (see my signature for equipment) at a volume of 35. but last night I watched the same show on my HT2 at a volume of 55. the speakers on my HT2 are louder. but the overall volume seemed the same or louder on HT1 than on my HT2. That is either because my HT1 has 5.1 audio, where my HT2 has 2.0 audio. or maybe I had the volumes on different levels. I can't compare the volumes because both volumes work differently.

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post #7432 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
i'm not asking for the exact middle, just roughly. but I guess nobody knows. I am asking because I'm used to watching a show on my HT1 (see my signature for equipment) at a volume of 35. but last night I watched the same show on my HT2 at a volume of 55. the speakers on my HT2 are louder. but the overall volume seemed the same or louder on HT1 than on my HT2. That is either because my HT1 has 5.1 audio, where my HT2 has 2.0 audio. or maybe I had the volumes on different levels. I can't compare the volumes because both volumes work differently.
Right. If you change the way the volume is displayed on the two receivers, the numbers will mean the same thing on both. That's what I was trying to say, and why I suggested you change the way the volume is displayed on both receivers.
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post #7433 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
i'm not asking for the exact middle, just roughly. but I guess nobody knows. I am asking because I'm used to watching a show on my HT1 (see my signature for equipment) at a volume of 35. but last night I watched the same show on my HT2 at a volume of 55. the speakers on my HT2 are louder. but the overall volume seemed the same or louder on HT1 than on my HT2. That is either because my HT1 has 5.1 audio, where my HT2 has 2.0 audio. or maybe I had the volumes on different levels. I can't compare the volumes because both volumes work differently.

ignoring room effects, unless you are sitting at the same distance from the speakers, it is an apples to oranges comparison.

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post #7434 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 08:41 AM
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ignoring room effects, unless you are sitting at the same distance from the speakers, it is an apples to oranges comparison.
This entire topic seems to be apples to oranges (possibly even apples to iguanas). As you and others have stated pretty clearly... this isn't how volume works. The questioner only has a single constant in all this... his ears. "35" isnt a magic number... it's ONE piece of equipment's representation of "that's how loud it is." Switching to another device (another room config? Another source material? Another day where the barometric pressure has changed? And so on...) may get a "55" ... which is the new config's representation of "that's how loud it is." If the listener's ears perceive it to be the same... well, there you have it.

The questioner can either change the scale as @drh3b suggests, or change the scale's meaning in his head.
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I am asking because I'm used to watching a show on my HT1 (see my signature for equipment) at a volume of 35.
Once you find the volume you like, one of the features of the Denon I really really like is you can set a default power on volume to whatever you like. This is huge for me since I am now doing Bluray and Streaming for the first time. I didn't want to fire up netflix and have it defaulted to reference level.
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post #7436 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by labboypro View Post
This entire topic seems to be apples to oranges (possibly even apples to iguanas). As you and others have stated pretty clearly... this isn't how volume works. The questioner only has a single constant in all this... his ears. "35" isnt a magic number... it's ONE piece of equipment's representation of "that's how loud it is." Switching to another device (another room config? Another source material? Another day where the barometric pressure has changed? And so on...) may get a "55" ... which is the new config's representation of "that's how loud it is." If the listener's ears perceive it to be the same... well, there you have it.

The questioner can either change the scale as @drh3b suggests, or change the scale's meaning in his head.
To sum it up, I set the volume to my listening level comfort with each listening session. This allows me to ignore the OSD overlay, which I must do with 4K content anyway, since my AVR won't produce an OSD overlay with 4K. IOW, I let my ears run the show, and I don't worry about stuff that I don 't need to wory about!
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post #7437 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 09:20 AM
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I don't understand why numbers matter. Set the volume to what your ears can tolerate. Numbers in volume is subjective. What is perfect to me might to too low or too high for someone else.

So no ones how loud 50% is, which honestly doesn't matter.

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tv: Samsung UN75MU800, Receiver: Denon AVR 730H, speakers: 4x M&K S-1B and M&K S85c for center, sub: MKsound V12 HTPC, Samsung UBP-K8500, Rogers Digital PVR, Chromecast Ultra
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post #7438 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 09:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zinfella View Post
To sum it up, I set the volume to my listening level comfort with each listening session. This allows me to ignore the OSD overlay, which I must do with 4K content anyway, since my AVR won't produce an OSD overlay with 4K. IOW, I let my ears run the show, and I don't worry about stuff that I don 't need to wory about!
Thats a bummer. I just bought the 3400 mainly for volume on screen. Your saying if/when I upgrade to 4k I'll lose that?
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post #7439 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 09:48 AM
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Thats a bummer. I just bought the 3400 mainly for volume on screen. Your saying if/when I upgrade to 4k I'll lose that?
I'm not saying anything about he 3400. I'm talking about my S730H, which is not scheduled to get the FW update that includes OSD with 4K. To take it a bit further, content volume varies from one program source to another, and I don't need to see an OSD overlay to know if it's too loud for my comfort.
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post #7440 of 12053 Old 08-13-2018, 09:52 AM
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...and I don't need to see an OSD overlay to know if it's too loud for my comfort.
That's my wife's job.
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