"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 263 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7861 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Trogdor85 View Post
So, I'm running an AVR-X4400H to an LG OLED65B7A via arc in a 5.2.4 atmos configuration and am absolutely tearing my hair out over this problem.

When using any of the TV apps I can not consistently get the TV audio signal to play through the receiver. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.

For example I fiddled with settings on the denon and got dolby atmos running perfectly and thought hooray I solved the problem. Then someone called me and Netflix time out and went back to the user selection screen and when I went back to the movie I was watching I had no sound again.

Another time I changed the 4k signal from enhanced to standard and then back to enhanced and went back to Netflix and boom it worked. The next time I turned Netflix on, no sound.

I don't know if it's the TV or the receiver, but it's driving me absolutely nuts. It generally takes me longer to screw around with seemingly random settings on the TV and receiver to get audio than it does to actually watch the movie.

I've called tech support with them both but you know how the finger pointing game goes.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm at a loss.
Do you have 4k certified premium cable on the ARC connection? What is the digital out set to on the TV? If there is a bitstream/passthrough option use that.
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post #7862 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 10:48 AM
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HDMI Audio Cutting Out

Anyone else having HDMI audio issues after the latest firmware update? 2 channel audio will cut out intermittently on my x6400 using two different inputs with both the AppleTV and Oppo Blu-Ray player. It's fairly random.

I can see the speaker config icons on the front display disappear and reappear when the audio cuts out. I tired switching out cables on the Oppo same issue. The AppleTV has HDMI 2.1 cables so thats definitely not it. Also did a full receiver reset and same issue.

Super annoying, I am in the process of upgrading speakers and adding a new amp for the front two channels and now 2 playback is having problems. Talk about timing!
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post #7863 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by eziggy View Post
Anyone else having HDMI audio issues after the latest firmware update? 2 channel audio will cut out intermittently on my x6400 using two different inputs with both the AppleTV and Oppo Blu-Ray player. It's fairly random.

I can see the speaker config icons on the front display disappear and reappear when the audio cuts out. I tired switching out cables on the Oppo same issue. The AppleTV has HDMI 2.1 cables so thats definitely not it. Also did a full receiver reset and same issue.

Super annoying, I am in the process of upgrading speakers and adding a new amp for the front two channels and now 2 playback is having problems. Talk about timing!
If you haven't already, try connecting the Oppo and ATV to any of the AVR's HDMI input ports numbered 5-7. Ports 1-4 go through a 4-port HDMI switch to one of the ports on a second 4-port HDMI switch. Ports 5-7 connect directly to the other 3 ports on that second switch. Sometimes problems are introduced by having to go through 2 switches.

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post #7864 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Make sure it is certified HDMI........
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Originally Posted by zinfella View Post
Certified Premium
Yep yep.

Unfortunately I have to use three 40 - 50 ft HDMI cables (and USB and CAT5) going from the office room to the living room. 1 from my Intel Integrated Gfx to receiver, 1 from Nvidia card to 4k TV, and 1 from Nvidia DP to HDMI converter to VR headset. Took a little fiddling, but got it all working. No signal cut out even with 4k/UHD color/HDR content. I'll hold out for true HDMI 2.1 spec AVR's to hit the market. My Yamaha survives another year!
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post #7865 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 02:54 PM
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What does ECO mode actually do? Does it reign in the amplification that the x4400 can produce? Does it affect sound quality in any fashion that someone has noticed?

Denon x4400h, Samsung LED 1080p TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, Roku 2, Darbeevision, etc.
Headphone system: Focal Clear, Sennheiser HD600, AKG K702, Hifiman HE-400i, Marantz HD-DAC1, Denon DVD-3910
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post #7866 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
What does ECO mode actually do? Does it reign in the amplification that the x4400 can produce? Does it affect sound quality in any fashion that someone has noticed?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post36288762
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post #7867 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 05:32 PM
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Question

Just picked up a X4400h to use with new Klipsch speakers I just got too. Plan to do full 7.1.4 atmos eventually but only have 5.1 speakers for now but I'm wondering what the best amplifier would be for my setup. Below are my speakers, would the Audiosource 50w amp mentioned in the first few replies be enough (and just amp some in-cieling ones like height 2's), or should I go for something bigger to amp the front towers? I'd like to keep it around/under $500 for an amp. I'm also new to amps, so I don't know that much other than what I've learned in the last few days.

Speakers I currently have:
Fronts: two Klipsch RP-280F's
Center: one Klipsch RP-450C
Rear Surrounds: two Klipsch RP-250S's
Subwoofer: Klipsch 12" R-112SW

Speakers I plan to add atm (open to suggestions)
Side Surrounds: pair of Klipsch RP-140SA maybe
In-Ceiling: four probably Klipsch reference in-ceiling speakers, haven't narrowed down which model yet
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post #7868 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
For the music input maybe you can use the Option->Channel level adjust to attenuate one or both subs to get desired levels.
Ooh that's very interesting. Can you explain this a bit more? I'm confused about this. Will this option automatically load each time the channel is changed?

I have Audyssey completely turned off by the way.
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post #7869 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
What does ECO mode actually do? Does it reign in the amplification that the x4400 can produce? Does it affect sound quality in any fashion that someone has noticed?
There has been alot of discussion on ECO mode in this thread and many other places. See post 7601, 7606, 7609, 7615, 7668 and 7671. Many different opinions on it. Gene DellaSala from Audioholics did some bench testing with Eco on and off and his recommendations is to leave it "off at all cost". I did my own little test and came to this same conclusion. However there are some members here that have it turned on and claim no differences in performance yet claim to see a temp drop of 10 degrees? I didn't see no such thing on my AVR X3400H during testing. I seen about a 2 degree drop in temp at about 90 db listening levels but did have a noticable sound difference with MUSIC with ECO on and OFF.

It really comes down to how you use your AVR? There is a ECO auto mode that is suppose to be the best of both worlds. Saves energy at lower demand levels then clicks off at higher demands so your not restricting amp power to your speakers at higher levels.

I am off work next week and i plan on having my brother stop over so we can conduct a Double-blind test doing the same test i did in post 7668 of this thread. I am also going to do some testing with a movie and SACD. I want to determine what i heard was in fact real! If my brother or i can choose with authority (100% of the time) when ECO is off during the music play back test then we know it indeed effects speaker performance because of the limited power output with ECO on!

(Living Room) Sony XBR-65X900E 4K TV, Sony UBP-X800 4K BD player, Pioneer SC-LX502, Def Tech BP9020's, A90 atmos, CS-9040 C and Di 5.5R surrounds

(Garage) Sherwood RX-4105 Receiver, Samsung DVD/CD player, Klipsch 2.5 med oak speakers
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post #7870 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RKSKYDANCER View Post
There has been alot of discussion on ECO mode in this thread and many other places. See post 7601, 7606, 7609, 7615, 7668 and 7671. Many different opinions on it.
I read the lengthy thread that someone directed me to earlier. I use an external amp for my front mains, and I saw the recommendation from Denon to leave ECO mode ON in that situation. I also saw someone who got odd Audyssey results concerning his/her subwoofers when Audyssey calibration was run with ECO mode on.

So I did a compromise when running the calibration on my newly installed x4400h: I left ECO mode OFF when doing the calibration, then turned it ON afterwards. My system sounds good, the Audyssey calibration graphs look good, and I can certainly do with a cooler listening room (Denons do run hot, and this one is noticeably cooler than my "dead" x4000. I don't have any way to measure THD, so I'm keeping it ON for now.
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Denon x4400h, Samsung LED 1080p TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, Roku 2, Darbeevision, etc.
Headphone system: Focal Clear, Sennheiser HD600, AKG K702, Hifiman HE-400i, Marantz HD-DAC1, Denon DVD-3910
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post #7871 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 07:34 PM
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Got an odd issues with my Denon AVR S730h. It worked fine for a while.

Now it is acting as though it doesn't have any form of internet connection capacity:

- It won't allow me to reset the network settings (nothing happens)
- Selecting WiFi setup in the settings menu results in a black screen (shows WiFi set-up in the LED panel but nothing on my screen)
- Selecting diagnostics results in a "please wait" message that doesn't change
- All apps (Spotify, HEOS, etc.) can't find my receiver
- Naturally all internet related features are disabled (can't update firmware, etc.)

I don't have an ethernet cable in this room.

Otherwise it functions fine. It is just the online features that are acting up.

Any ideas?
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post #7872 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Decado2 View Post
Got an odd issues with my Denon AVR S730h. It worked fine for a while.

Now it is acting as though it doesn't have any form of internet connection capacity:

- It won't allow me to reset the network settings (nothing happens)
- Selecting WiFi setup in the settings menu results in a black screen (shows WiFi set-up in the LED panel but nothing on my screen)
- Selecting diagnostics results in a "please wait" message that doesn't change
- All apps (Spotify, HEOS, etc.) can't find my receiver
- Naturally all internet related features are disabled (can't update firmware, etc.)

I don't have an ethernet cable in this room.

Otherwise it functions fine. It is just the online features that are acting up.

Any ideas?
Unplug the receiver for at least 10 minutes(soft reset) and see if that fixes it.

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post #7873 of 12519 Old 08-29-2018, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rolledoff View Post
Ooh that's very interesting. Can you explain this a bit more? I'm confused about this. Will this option automatically load each time the channel is changed?

I have Audyssey completely turned off by the way.
Yes. While listening to music input hit the option button on the remote. You will see the channel level adjustment. Lower one or both subs to what you want. That adjustment will be only for that input and will be persistent. Other inputs are not affected.
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post #7874 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
Does it affect sound quality in any fashion that someone has noticed?
Yes and no


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post #7875 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post

Unplug the receiver for at least 10 minutes(soft reset) and see if that fixes it.
That worked. Thanks!
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post #7876 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKSKYDANCER View Post
I am off work next week and i plan on having my brother stop over so we can conduct a Double-blind test doing the same test i did in post 7668 of this thread. I am also going to do some testing with a movie and SACD. I want to determine what i heard was in fact real! If my brother or i can choose with authority (100% of the time) when ECO is off during the music play back test then we know it indeed effects speaker performance because of the limited power output with ECO on!
While I look forward to the results of your testing be aware of non verbal cues that siblings especially pick up on that can put a thumb on the scale plus it would be best to have a more disinterested party handle the actual testing. You've already got your mind made up and will be looking more for confirmation of your own experiences whether your consciously aware of it or not.

I actually believe you when you say you heard a difference though but I also believe JD and others here who have said they didn't. Case in point. I've never had one of my Denon receivers get overly hot to the touch before,during or after use but there are plenty of owners here with external cooling fans sitting on top of their own receivers who have.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #7877 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:23 AM
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W I've never had one of my Denon receivers get overly hot to the touch before,during or after use but there are plenty of owners here with external cooling fans sitting on top of their own receivers who have.
I think it depends on air circulation. My 4520 got incredibly hot, and even when I got my Emotiva for LCR it would still get hot just powering surrounds when I was having one of my incredibly loud multichannel listening sessions. But, it was in a partially enclosed cabinet. My x4300h is basically out in the open, and it never gets more than warm. I've never heard the x4300h's fan, but the 4520 would sound like it was attempting take off to the moon.
My x4300h, the 2nd one, has been by far my best receiver. The flagship 4520's only advantage for me was it reacted slightly quicker to commands.

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post #7878 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dizman7 View Post
Just picked up a X4400h to use with new Klipsch speakers I just got too. Plan to do full 7.1.4 atmos eventually but only have 5.1 speakers for now but I'm wondering what the best amplifier would be for my setup. Below are my speakers, would the Audiosource 50w amp mentioned in the first few replies be enough (and just amp some in-cieling ones like height 2's), or should I go for something bigger to amp the front towers? I'd like to keep it around/under $500 for an amp. I'm also new to amps, so I don't know that much other than what I've learned in the last few days.

Speakers I currently have:
Fronts: two Klipsch RP-280F's
Center: one Klipsch RP-450C
Rear Surrounds: two Klipsch RP-250S's
Subwoofer: Klipsch 12" R-112SW

Speakers I plan to add atm (open to suggestions)
Side Surrounds: pair of Klipsch RP-140SA maybe
In-Ceiling: four probably Klipsch reference in-ceiling speakers, haven't narrowed down which model yet
Klipsch are very sensitive so generally won't require additional power for the L/C/R speakers, The AudioSource should be sufficient to power the Height 2 speakers when added.
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post #7879 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
I read the lengthy thread that someone directed me to earlier. I use an external amp for my front mains, and I saw the recommendation from Denon to leave ECO mode ON in that situation. I also saw someone who got odd Audyssey results concerning his/her subwoofers when Audyssey calibration was run with ECO mode on.

So I did a compromise when running the calibration on my newly installed x4400h: I left ECO mode OFF when doing the calibration, then turned it ON afterwards. My system sounds good, the Audyssey calibration graphs look good, and I can certainly do with a cooler listening room (Denons do run hot, and this one is noticeably cooler than my "dead" x4000. I don't have any way to measure THD, so I'm keeping it ON for now.
Important to note that in most cases, Denons will only run hot with poor ventilation. I've owned numerous models over the past 10 years (including the X4000), and none has ever been more than simply "warm" to the touch with open front/back and room on the sides and at least 3-4" clearance above.
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Last edited by jdsmoothie; 08-30-2018 at 04:15 AM.
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post #7880 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decado2 View Post
Got an odd issues with my Denon AVR S730h. It worked fine for a while.

Now it is acting as though it doesn't have any form of internet connection capacity:

- It won't allow me to reset the network settings (nothing happens)
- Selecting WiFi setup in the settings menu results in a black screen (shows WiFi set-up in the LED panel but nothing on my screen)
- Selecting diagnostics results in a "please wait" message that doesn't change
- All apps (Spotify, HEOS, etc.) can't find my receiver
- Naturally all internet related features are disabled (can't update firmware, etc.)

I don't have an ethernet cable in this room.

Otherwise it functions fine. It is just the online features that are acting up.

Any ideas?
As a reminder to everyone reading this post ..... when an odd issue occurs, refer to post 5 and start out doing a "soft reset." If still no joy, one of the other resets.
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post #7881 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Klipsch are very sensitive so generally won't require additional power for the L/C/R speakers, The AudioSource should be sufficient to power the Height 2 speakers when added.
Speak for yourself.
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post #7882 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 01:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKSKYDANCER View Post
There has been alot of discussion on ECO mode in this thread and many other places. See post 7601, 7606, 7609, 7615, 7668 and 7671. Many different opinions on it. Gene DellaSala from Audioholics did some bench testing with Eco on and off and his recommendations is to leave it "off at all cost". I did my own little test and came to this same conclusion. However there are some members here that have it turned on and claim no differences in performance yet claim to see a temp drop of 10 degrees? I didn't see no such thing on my AVR X3400H during testing. I seen about a 2 degree drop in temp at about 90 db listening levels but did have a noticable sound difference with MUSIC with ECO on and OFF.

Let's put things into perspective. You listen at well above the average owner's listening level which is generally 50/-30dB to 70/-10dB. It's also never recommended to go above 80/0dB to ensure there is sufficient headroom available in the AVR. Your personal results are your results and your decision is based on those results. Makes sense. Others would be better served simply trying ECO mode ON/AUTO to determine for themselves if there is any audible difference. If not, makes sense to use it. My personal experience with multiple models has always been 10F drop with no audible difference.
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post #7883 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Important to note that in most cases, Denons will only run hot with poor ventilation. I've owned numerous models over the past 10 years, and none has ever been more than simply "warm" to the touch with open front/back and room on the sides and at least 3-4" clearance above.
How we define "warm" vs. "hot" may vary. I've had three Denon AVRs, and each of them sat on the top shelf of a completely open rack. They didn't burn my fingers, but they did give off much more heat than, for example, my Carver 200 wpc amp. You could feel the heat coming from the Denon about 8" away.

Denon x4400h, Samsung LED 1080p TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, Roku 2, Darbeevision, etc.
Headphone system: Focal Clear, Sennheiser HD600, AKG K702, Hifiman HE-400i, Marantz HD-DAC1, Denon DVD-3910
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post #7884 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 04:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
How we define "warm" vs. "hot" may vary. I've had three Denon AVRs, and each of them sat on the top shelf of a completely open rack. They didn't burn my fingers, but they did give off much more heat than, for example, my Carver 200 wpc amp. You could feel the heat coming from the Denon about 8" away.
I define "warm" as being able to leave my hand on the top of the AVR without any pain while powered on while "hot" would mean having to remove it within a few seconds due to pain.
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post #7885 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 10:05 AM
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If you haven't already, try connecting the Oppo and ATV to any of the AVR's HDMI input ports numbered 5-7. Ports 1-4 go through a 4-port HDMI switch to one of the ports on a second 4-port HDMI switch. Ports 5-7 connect directly to the other 3 ports on that second switch. Sometimes problems are introduced by having to go through 2 switches.
Interesting, didn’t know about the HDMI switch layout. Thanks, will give it a try. Though it was working before the update so I am not keeping my hopes up.
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post #7886 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I think it depends on air circulation. My 4520 got incredibly hot, and even when I got my Emotiva for LCR it would still get hot just powering surrounds when I was having one of my incredibly loud multichannel listening sessions. But, it was in a partially enclosed cabinet. My x4300h is basically out in the open, and it never gets more than warm. I've never heard the x4300h's fan, but the 4520 would sound like it was attempting take off to the moon.
My x4300h, the 2nd one, has been by far my best receiver. The flagship 4520's only advantage for me was it reacted slightly quicker to commands.
Totally agree with you that it depends on air circulation. Mine doesn't have much room on top but the space always has a ceiling fan going 24/7 and there's constant air movement around the room but my main point was my own experience with this doesn't make invalid others opposite experience. I think Eco mode is similar. There's definitely a point though where using the On setting can introduce distortion as it's already been tested by the YouTuber I linked. Just not convinced everyone's listening environment will get to that level. For those that do there's always Auto mode or just leave it off if you have enough air flow to your receiver. It's all about options for individual users not a blanket "Don't use at all costs" setting IMO unlike the impedance matching setting. That one should be left alone period.

The 4520 was a great receiver. That was above my budget at the time though.

I was a never Eco mode advocate as well but my own experiences using it and listening to JD's and doing some more research on my own changed my mind on the never part. The best solution is not to have to use features like this at all of course but either cooler class D amps or larger more spaced enclosures with larger heat sinks are probably the best answers to that.

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post #7887 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
The 4520 was a great receiver. That was above my budget at the time though.

I was a never Eco mode advocate as well but my own experiences using it and listening to JD's and doing some more research on my own changed my mind on the never part. The best solution is not to have to use features like this at all of course but either cooler class D amps or larger more spaced enclosures with larger heat sinks are probably the best answers to that.
Trust me, I got the 4520 on clearance, still more than I could afford, but it was supposed to be my last receiver.

What I do is turn eco off for my multi channel music and movie watching(I might be repeating myself here) because I listen so loudly, but for TV and 2 channel I turn Eco on, as I don't watch TV that loudly, and have an amp for LCR. Someone on one of these Denon threads said power usage went down 38(?) watts when he turned eco on, since he had an external amp, there was no reason to have it off.

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post #7888 of 12519 Old 08-30-2018, 07:47 PM
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Does the X4400H display the volume bar over a 4K 60hz HDR BT2020 signal? There is some conflicting information at the beginning of this thread (saying that the X3400H does, but the X4400H does not).

I don’t care about Dolby Vision, as I have a projector. My main viewing device is an nVidia Shield locked at 4K 60hz BT2020 for all content so I really want to know if I will see an on screen volume bar if I buy the X4400H. Thanks.
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post #7889 of 12519 Old 08-31-2018, 01:40 AM
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Hi!

Does anyone know the pre-amp voltage output for the X4400h? Been looking pretty much everywhere but cant seem to find any specifications for it..?
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post #7890 of 12519 Old 08-31-2018, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed3120 View Post
Does the X4400H display the volume bar over a 4K 60hz HDR BT2020 signal? There is some conflicting information at the beginning of this thread (saying that the X3400H does, but the X4400H does not).

I don’t care about Dolby Vision, as I have a projector. My main viewing device is an nVidia Shield locked at 4K 60hz BT2020 for all content so I really want to know if I will see an on screen volume bar if I buy the X4400H. Thanks.
Yes.
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