"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 264 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7891 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darki3 View Post
Hi!

Does anyone know the pre-amp voltage output for the X4400h? Been looking pretty much everywhere but cant seem to find any specifications for it..?

according to the manual (see specifications/analog), the output voltage is rated at 1.2v.


i would place a significant wager that it is higher, as it has been on every denon reviewed within recent memory.
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post #7892 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ClayM View Post
Has anyone been able to get a PS4 Pro outputting 4K HDR through a Denon receiver?

Just plugging it in, it tells me it can only do 2k (1080p?).

After a bit of research, I see I may need to turn on the "enhanced" 4K signal.

If I do that, I get no content being passed to the TV. My 2017 Shield seems to be working fine - Vizio P75 says it's getting a 2160p HDR10 signal.

Any ideas on what the problem might be? The PS4Pro, the Denon x3400, and the Vizio are all updated with the latest firmware.

Plugging the PS4 directly into the TV gives me the full range of options.
Running an X3400H hooked up to a PS4 Pro and an LG OLED. I get a 4K HDR just fine. Are you using certified premium HDMI cables? Maybe try moving the PS4 to a higher HDMI port number on the AVR and see if that solves your issue. (I believe I have all the PS4 Pro video settings other than HDR set to Auto).
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post #7893 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Trogdor85 View Post
So, I'm running an AVR-X4400H to an LG OLED65B7A via arc in a 5.2.4 atmos configuration and am absolutely tearing my hair out over this problem.

When using any of the TV apps I can not consistently get the TV audio signal to play through the receiver. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.

For example I fiddled with settings on the denon and got dolby atmos running perfectly and thought hooray I solved the problem. Then someone called me and Netflix time out and went back to the user selection screen and when I went back to the movie I was watching I had no sound again.

Another time I changed the 4k signal from enhanced to standard and then back to enhanced and went back to Netflix and boom it worked. The next time I turned Netflix on, no sound.

I don't know if it's the TV or the receiver, but it's driving me absolutely nuts. It generally takes me longer to screw around with seemingly random settings on the TV and receiver to get audio than it does to actually watch the movie.

I've called tech support with them both but you know how the finger pointing game goes.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm at a loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
turn off HDMI Control on the Denon. You don't need it on for ARC to work. I have a Denon x3300 and the same LG TV and have never had a problem with ARC thru TV apps in the 10 months I've owned it.

If you do connect your Roku Ultra make sure you use a Certified Premium 18 Gbps HDMI cable. You should also use one from Denon to your OLED anyway.

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I am having the same problem. Never had a problem with my x2300.

The only way to get audio from my LG C7 Apps is to use a optical out and change Inputs>Input Select>Input Mode to Digital and switch it back to HDMI/Auto when I go back to my DVR.

I guess I just can't get ARC to work on this unit. I have the right cables and have tried every kind of ARC setting I can find on both the TV and Denon. And as I said they worked on my x2300.

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post #7894 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 11:12 AM
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ARC is just notorious for working for some and not for others.

Not worth the hassle. I had ARC running for 3 weeks a year ago and then I turned on my system and ARC wouldn't work.

Ran optical and no issues. ARC does work now, but I refuse to try it long term. Too many issues overall.

Lossy Atmos and DD+ isn't worth it. I bet 99% can't even hear the difference between DD and DD+
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I am having the same problem. Never had a problem with my x2300.

The only way to get audio from my LG C7 Apps is to use a optical out and change Inputs>Input Select>Input Mode to Digital and switch it back to HDMI/Auto when I go back to my DVR.

I guess I just can't get ARC to work on this unit. I have the right cables and have tried every kind of ARC setting I can find on both the TV and Denon. And as I said they worked on my x2300.
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post #7895 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Trust me, I got the 4520 on clearance, still more than I could afford, but it was supposed to be my last receiver.

What I do is turn eco off for my multi channel music and movie watching(I might be repeating myself here) because I listen so loudly, but for TV and 2 channel I turn Eco on, as I don't watch TV that loudly, and have an amp for LCR. Someone on one of these Denon threads said power usage went down 38(?) watts when he turned eco on, since he had an external amp, there was no reason to have it off.
I have a amp draw display on my panamax so I can tell the change in amp, I just multiplied it by 120 to get rough watts number. The earlier posts also reported around 32-35 differences with Kill-a-watt.

With outlaw external amp I have more powerful sound and less overall heat, with about same overall power consumption keeping the denon eco ON! The denon is cooler and I can't get the outlaw to what I would even call luke warm.

But as soon as I add atmos speakers to the denon I think I will have to turn it eco mode off (but only for movies or DSP modes that will exercise those speakers, or for low volume watching)

What I want to know is that ECO mode ON, DEFINITELY doesn't affect pre-amp outputs right?
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post #7896 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 11:41 AM
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^

it does not affect the pre-amp section.
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post #7897 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 12:05 PM
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"Airplay 2" update breaking Dolby Surround up-mix

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Originally Posted by gfgrimmjr View Post
I'd guess the best way to provide feedback is to either call or share your experience through their "Ask a Question" online form. They're also on Twitter (@DenonAmerica).



Thanks for confirming another repro case. I've cited the previous three cases of this issue on here and shared my repro steps with a former colleague that now works at Sound United and I'm told that he's passed the information along to their engineering team. Meanwhile, I'm working to see if I can provide the feedback through a back-channel between my company and Denon. I think now it's just a matter of how their FW team decides to respond to the issue (hotfix vs regular update cadence). They pushed out their HDMI 2.1 ALLM HF-VSDB fix pretty quickly, so let's hope for the best.
I just got a confirmation from Denon on the "Airplay 2" update breaking Dolby Surround up-mix of multi-channel PCM input from Apple TV.
"Our Engineering team in Japan is aware of this issue and is working to produce a firmware fix in the near future. Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Denon NA"

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post #7898 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 12:48 PM
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On the x4000 that recently died, if I played a hi-res stereo download, then "24/96" would appear momentarily on the front panel before it changed to STEREO. This doesn't happen on the x4400--all 2-channel signals just read STEREO.

Is this a changed feature, or is there a setting I've missed that would bring back the brief "24/96" message?

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post #7899 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
On the x4000 that recently died, if I played a hi-res stereo download, then "24/96" would appear momentarily on the front panel before it changed to STEREO. This doesn't happen on the x4400--all 2-channel signals just read STEREO.

Is this a changed feature, or is there a setting I've missed that would bring back the brief "24/96" message?
If you hit INFO and bring up the display, does it say anything about the higher sampling rate there?

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post #7900 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ToBeFrank View Post
Yes.
Thanks.
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post #7901 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Travisx2112 View Post
If you hit INFO and bring up the display, does it say anything about the higher sampling rate there?
Yes, it does, but unlike the x4000, the sample rate doesn't show up on the front panel display for a moment or so when playing a hi-res file.

I do like that the x4400 will play stereo digital files up to and including DSD128 (aka double DSD) from a USB hard drive; but it won't play 24/96 or DSD multichannel files at all, either from a USB hard drive or from the media server program on my PC.

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post #7902 of 12402 Old 08-31-2018, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sdjaime View Post
Running an X3400H hooked up to a PS4 Pro and an LG OLED. I get a 4K HDR just fine. Are you using certified premium HDMI cables? Maybe try moving the PS4 to a higher HDMI port number on the AVR and see if that solves your issue. (I believe I have all the PS4 Pro video settings other than HDR set to Auto).
I’m running an X6400 with PS4 Pro and Sony VPL-VW285ES. All video settings on the PS4 set to auto, amp HDMI set to enhanced as-is the projector. No issues getting 4K output from the PS4 to the screen.
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post #7903 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
Yes, it does, but unlike the x4000, the sample rate doesn't show up on the front panel display for a moment or so when playing a hi-res file.

I do like that the x4400 will play stereo digital files up to and including DSD128 (aka double DSD) from a USB hard drive; but it won't play 24/96 or DSD multichannel files at all, either from a USB hard drive or from the media server program on my PC.
Page 293 and 295 of the X4400H's PDF manual answers the multi channel DSD issue (2 channel only) over USB/ network. The 24/96 might be related to having Audyssey's DSP active and that higher bit rate/ sampling frequency but I'm less sure on that part of my answer. Try Direct mode (which disables Audyssey) as a test.

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post #7904 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Page 293 and 295 of the X4400H's PDF manual answers the multi channel DSD issue (2 channel only) over USB/ network. The 24/96 might be related to having Audyssey's DSP active and that higher bit rate/ sampling frequency but I'm less sure on that part of my answer. Try Direct mode (which disables Audyssey) as a test.
I think Denon simply removed the feature of momentarily displaying the bit-rate of a hi-res file. Has nothing to do with Audyssey, since the x4000 and x4400 both have XT32. Turning on Direct makes no difference.

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post #7905 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post
according to the manual (see specifications/analog), the output voltage is rated at 1.2v.

i would place a significant wager that it is higher, as it has been on every denon reviewed within recent memory.
That probably refers to the output at a specific reference level. On the test bench my X4000's preamp output clipped at 12 V peak-to-peak, which is about 4 VRMS.
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post #7906 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
That probably refers to the output at a specific reference level. On the test bench my X4000's preamp output clipped at 12 V peak-to-peak, which is about 4 VRMS.
yup, that is my guess too.

it’s listed as (insert a lowish number here) in manuals for heaven knows how many models across heaven knows how many years, yet every time i’ve seen test results (ty for providing another data point), it is always significantly higher.

it is safe to say that any denon will have enough pre-out voltage to fully drive any amplifier you want to hook up to it.
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post #7907 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
I think Denon simply removed the feature of momentarily displaying the bit-rate of a hi-res file. Has nothing to do with Audyssey, since the x4000 and x4400 both have XT32. Turning on Direct makes no difference.
I wasn't referring to the display showing or not. There is a known processing issue with having Audyssey's filtering applied and certain higher bit and sample rate material playback( least there used to be.) There was a whole to do about it in one of the Marantz threads a while back.

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post #7908 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
I wasn't referring to the display showing or not. There is a known processing issue with having Audyssey's filtering applied and certain higher bit and sample rate material playback( least there used to be.) There was a whole to do about it in one of the Marantz threads a while back.
My understanding is that D&M's Audyssey implementation still uses 48 K samples/second. A discussion of this is available at https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...m-eq-interview

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post #7909 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
My understanding is that D&M's Audyssey implementation still uses 48 K samples/second. A discussion of this is available at https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...m-eq-interview
Based on playing around with the impulse responses in the files generated by the MultEQ app, I agree that they are still using a 48k sample rate.
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post #7910 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
My understanding is that D&M's Audyssey implementation still uses 48 K samples/second. A discussion of this is available at https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...m-eq-interview
Right, I know that. But despite that, the x4000 showed the bit rate of hi-res files momentarily on the front display (e.g., "24/96," "24/192") when one of these files starting playing. The x4400 doesn't display this info on the front panel display, but the INFO button on the remote brings up the file resolution. I don't think these files are being processed any differently on the newer AVR, but apparently this information is simply not displayed on the front panel anymore.

By the way, I have tried using Direct to get the full resolution of these files without any downsampling due to Audyssey. In my listening room, the SQ of these files is better with Audyssey than without. If I want to, I can listen to these hi-res files through my headphone amp/DAC without any downsampling of the files.

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post #7911 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 06:17 PM
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Right, I know that. But despite that, the x4000 showed the bit rate of hi-res files momentarily on the front display (e.g., "24/96," "24/192") when one of these files starting playing. The x4400 doesn't display this info on the front panel display, but the INFO button on the remote brings up the file resolution. I don't think these files are being processed any differently on the newer AVR, but apparently this information is simply not displayed on the front panel anymore.

By the way, I have tried using Direct to get the full resolution of these files without any downsampling due to Audyssey. In my listening room, the SQ of these files is better with Audyssey than without. If I want to, I can listen to these hi-res files through my headphone amp/DAC without any downsampling of the files.
DSDs are going to be processed differently on the x4400, it has a AKM 32 bit DAC on each channel and supports DSD decode directly. On the older x4000 it has burr brown 24 bit DAC, there will be some kind of PCM conversion process taking place. Out of the two models we have to assume in theory the x4400 is going to give the best resolution. It should be similar to listening to SACD player.
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post #7912 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 07:17 PM
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My 6400H today shut itself off and came back on in the middle of a movie. After that there was no issue. But this is bit strange and also concerning.
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post #7913 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
My understanding is that D&M's Audyssey implementation still uses 48 K samples/second. A discussion of this is available at https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...m-eq-interview
Thank you for that link Selden. I think I've read that before but it's been awhile so I reread it. Lot's of good info from Chris as always. From you as well.

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post #7914 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 09:17 PM
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My 6400H today shut itself off and came back on in the middle of a movie. After that there was no issue. But this is bit strange and also concerning.
Either a CEC issue or a speaker wire short/ amp overheat. Was there a flashing red light on the receiver or did it just power cycle on its own? Might try the exact same playback conditions and see if it happens again.

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post #7915 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Either a CEC issue or a speaker wire short/ amp overheat. Was there a flashing red light on the receiver or did it just power cycle on its own? Might try the exact same playback conditions and see if it happens again.
I don't use CEC, Speakers are connected using banana plugs and the amp has external cooling fans on the top (and on checking the temp. was normal)
I did not see if there was a red flashing light, but it just recycled.
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post #7916 of 12402 Old 09-01-2018, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I don't use CEC, Speakers are connected using banana plugs and the amp has external cooling fans on the top (and on checking the temp. was normal)
I did not see if there was a red flashing light, but it just recycled.
That is strange. I had my Sony X930E TV cycle off on it's own once and not since then so maybe you'll get the same thing with the receiver being a one time deal. Otherwise if not and it's not CEC related then the next thing to look at is the power supply, power cord or power receptacle it's plugged into. Bad or loose power cord I've seen be the culprit before. I'd check that next if you get a repeat performance.

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post #7917 of 12402 Old 09-02-2018, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
3. Not that much difference between MultEQ and XT, rather much more noticeable going to XT32.
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I've read that some actually preferred the fewer filters that basic MultEQ offered over XT but they were the "less is more" crowd when it comes to room correction so I'm not sure how universal that idea is shared among the larger Audyssey user base. The slim line of receivers are slim in their power supplies so to me the S730H would be my recommend over a slim line.
I ended up selling the x1300H and went with the B-stock s730H. Cost me $20 to switch.

Although the 730H is technically a downgrade. You were both correct, I can’t hear a difference between the MultEQ and XT. And I’m using the MultEQ app with filter frequency correction limited to 500 Hz on the Q500 mains and 5000Hz on the remaining.

HEOS works well with having both receivers grouped together.

I’ll be honest though. I do prefer the look of the X series over the S. The front of the S is too cluttered.

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post #7918 of 12402 Old 09-02-2018, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
I ended up selling the x1300H and went with the B-stock s730H. Cost me $20 to switch.

Although the 730H is technically a downgrade. You were both correct, I can’t hear a difference between the MultEQ and XT. And I’m using the MultEQ app with filter frequency correction limited to 500 Hz on the Q500 mains and 5000Hz on the remaining.

HEOS works well with having both receivers grouped together.

I’ll be honest though. I do prefer the look of the X series over the S. The front of the S is too cluttered.
Visual appearance is used by some in making their AVR purchase .... which is why Marantz is sometimes selected over Denon as some believe they look more professional.
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post #7919 of 12402 Old 09-02-2018, 08:02 AM
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DSDs are going to be processed differently on the x4400, it has a AKM 32 bit DAC on each channel and supports DSD decode directly. On the older x4000 it has burr brown 24 bit DAC, there will be some kind of PCM conversion process taking place. Out of the two models we have to assume in theory the x4400 is going to give the best resolution. It should be similar to listening to SACD player.
The 4000 and the 4400 can both convert DSD direct to analog without going through a conversion to PCM, if you set up the receivers properly. When you do this, Audyssey isn't available. In my system, the benefits of Audyssey outweigh the benefits of going DSD direct to analog.
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post #7920 of 12402 Old 09-02-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
That is strange. I had my Sony X930E TV cycle off on it's own once and not since then so maybe you'll get the same thing with the receiver being a one time deal. Otherwise if not and it's not CEC related then the next thing to look at is the power supply, power cord or power receptacle it's plugged into. Bad or loose power cord I've seen be the culprit before. I'd check that next if you get a repeat performance.
That's a good point on power cord. I will check it right away.
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