"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 265 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7921 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 10:44 AM
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i have ordered the x4400h, so ive been reading through this thread and the manual. my understanding is it doesnt have dolby pro logic ii stereo upmixer it has dolby surround. is this like the original dolby surround or an update to pro logic ii? i watch alot of stereo content and i love how pro logic ii cinema upmixes to 5.1 on my denon e400.

Last edited by aw73; 09-02-2018 at 11:03 AM.
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post #7922 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by aw73 View Post
i have ordered the x4400h, so ive been reading through this thread and the manual. my understanding is it doesnt have dolby pro logic ii stereo upmixer it has dolby surround. is this like the original dolby surround or an update to pro logic ii? i watch alot of stereo content and i love how pro logic ii cinema upmixes to 5.1 on my denon e400.
Despite the name, the new Dolby Surround upmixer is only vaguely related to the original Dolby Surround matrixed audio used for some movies with stereo soundtracks. It's Dolby's modern replacement for ProLogic and is used to expand 2.0, 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks to surround and overhead speakers. Quite a few people have expressed their preference for ProLogic, which provides more control over how the audio is manipulated, but PL is no longer available on current Atmos-capable equipment.

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post #7923 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Despite the name, the new Dolby Surround upmixer is only vaguely related to the original Dolby Surround matrixed audio used for some movies with stereo soundtracks. It's Dolby's modern replacement for ProLogic and is used to expand 2.0, 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks to surround and overhead speakers. Quite a few people have expressed their preference for ProLogic, which provides more control over how the audio is manipulated, but PL is no longer available on current Atmos-capable equipment.

i hope it is at least as good as prologic ii. with a good 2 channel prologic source the mono surround is real convincing, not as clear or precise as dolby digital but sometimes more ambient.
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post #7924 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 12:37 PM
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Does the auto lip sync only work with the CEC turned on?

I have a BenQ projector that is pretty new, with CEC turned ON / OFF the sync is still off.

The vid source is BD player, it can also turn CEC on, but I have to turn it off because it keeps turning the AVR power off with, even I told the AVR not to control the HDMI, the BD player cannot set the CEC function to not mess with others. I don't see why I would need to turn CEC ON at the player since that's the A/V source at the very beginning.

My issue is I can get the delay dialed in for something like DTS HD MA movies, auto lip sync turned off.
But for streaming movies (originated from the same BD player) which is in DD 5.1 the lip sync is off again, same thing is off playing the trailers DD 5.1 sound from the BD discs.

The solution is probably use another device for streaming movies in DD 5.1 since audio delay is stored per source. That's alot of compromise for using an AVR. But it's not exclusively a Denon issue, it's how they have implemented these poor protocol in HDMI.

What's the best practice here. Obviously projectors have a lag and it is easily noticed compared to using a TV. But I can't be the only person using a projector?

Just wondering if I should try to turn auto lipsync ON and then correct a offset (hopefully smaller) myself, maybe it will bring the difference closer for the different audio codec. For lipsync OFF, I have to put about 200ms for it to look natural.

if I simply don't do anything and set the auto lipsync simply on or off it looks like a dubbed foreign movie.

Last edited by PoorSignal; 09-02-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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post #7925 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenDice View Post
I just got a confirmation from Denon on the "Airplay 2" update breaking Dolby Surround up-mix of multi-channel PCM input from Apple TV.
"Our Engineering team in Japan is aware of this issue and is working to produce a firmware fix in the near future. Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Denon NA"

Thanks for sharing this outcome. It looks like the Denon FW team has received feedback through multiple channels at this point and now it's just a matter pushing a fix out to retail.
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post #7926 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aw73 View Post
i have ordered the x4400h, so ive been reading through this thread and the manual. my understanding is it doesnt have dolby pro logic ii stereo upmixer it has dolby surround. is this like the original dolby surround or an update to pro logic ii? i watch alot of stereo content and i love how pro logic ii cinema upmixes to 5.1 on my denon e400.
As someone who just upgraded from an 2100W to a 3400H, IMO the new surround upmixer is poo compared to PLII. The PLII music upmixer was really good. The new one is awful for music. For 2 channel movies I have not used too much so not a lot of experience there.
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post #7927 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aw73 View Post
i have ordered the x4400h, so ive been reading through this thread and the manual. my understanding is it doesnt have dolby pro logic ii stereo upmixer it has dolby surround. is this like the original dolby surround or an update to pro logic ii? i watch alot of stereo content and i love how pro logic ii cinema upmixes to 5.1 on my denon e400.
It's new. Try the center spread setting for multi channel music using DSU.

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post #7928 of 12375 Old 09-02-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
That's a good point on power cord. I will check it right away.
Good deal. Can't hurt.

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post #7929 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 12:37 AM
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Just picked up a 6400 in the UK to replace my Sony STR-DN1080.

First impressions - wow. A huge improvement! Just need to upgrade my aging kef 2005.3 speakers next

What's the verdict on the multiple audyssey options..? I've found having reference level set to -5 helps vocals in films etc. And should the audyssey eq be enabled as reference or flat...?

Thanks all!


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post #7930 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by FarleyUK View Post
Just picked up a 6400 in the UK to replace my Sony STR-DN1080.

First impressions - wow. A huge improvement! Just need to upgrade my aging kef 2005.3 speakers next

What's the verdict on the multiple audyssey options..? I've found having reference level set to -5 helps vocals in films etc. And should the audyssey eq be enabled as reference or flat...?

Thanks all!


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Reference rolls of the high frequencies and is recommended for movie listening or untreated rooms. Otherwise for music or well treated or overly small rooms Flat is the reccomend. Try both and use whichever your ears prefer.

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post #7931 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 04:06 AM
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Another quick question.... When I turn off the TV, only the main zone of the av turns off, not the whole thing. How can I change that so the entire av unit shuts off?


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post #7932 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 06:58 AM
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question?

Im a new member, longtime audio nut.
i just replaced my denon 789 with a new 2400, mostly for the 4k passthrough. using a panasonic ub400 bluray, and panasonic 60cx650u with 4k certified cables.
heres the question, i power on the denon, set it to fm, (i listen to the radio a lot) no sound. have to power on the tv and the sound pops on, dont here any relay clicking or anything from the receiver when that happens. hdmi passthrough is set to off now, hdmi control is set to off.
im at a loss now. any suggestions?
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post #7933 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FarleyUK View Post
Another quick question.... When I turn off the TV, only the main zone of the av turns off, not the whole thing. How can I change that so the entire av unit shuts off?


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I assume you are using ARC with HDMI control "on". If you have zone 2 turn on then shutting off the TV, or even the AVR itself would only turn off the main zone. I believe the unit is behaving normally.
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post #7934 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by avman09 View Post
I assume you are using ARC with HDMI control "on". If you have zone 2 turn on then shutting off the TV, or even the AVR itself would only turn off the main zone. I believe the unit is behaving normally.
Yes, I'm using ARC with HDMI control on. Is there no way to shut zone 2 and 3 off fully, so they don't power on with the main zone?
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post #7935 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by FarleyUK View Post
Yes, I'm using ARC with HDMI control on. Is there no way to shut zone 2 and 3 off fully, so they don't power on with the main zone?
Of course, just press the zone 2 on/off button. Or you can use the remote, press Z2, then the power button.
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Last edited by avman09; 09-03-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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post #7936 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pgscubadiver View Post
Im a new member, longtime audio nut.
i just replaced my denon 789 with a new 2400, mostly for the 4k passthrough. using a panasonic ub400 bluray, and panasonic 60cx650u with 4k certified cables.
heres the question, i power on the denon, set it to fm, (i listen to the radio a lot) no sound. have to power on the tv and the sound pops on, dont here any relay clicking or anything from the receiver when that happens. hdmi passthrough is set to off now, hdmi control is set to off.
im at a loss now. any suggestions?
You might try setting the receiver's "HDMI Video Output" to "Monitor2" when you want to listen to audio while the TV is "off". You probably can use two of the receiver's remote's "Quick Select" buttons to make this easier: one for when you're listening to FM with Monitor2 selected and another for watching Blu-rays with Monitor1 selected.

Let us know whether or not this works for you.

I'm assuming you have the TV plugged into Monitor1 and nothing plugged into Monitor2. With Monitor2 selected, the receiver should not be able to detect any display device, so it should be willing to output audio on its own. If later you add a projector plugged into Monitor2, this workaround won't work, though.

The default setting of "HDMI Video Output" is "Auto(Dual)" which looks for a display device on both HDMI outputs. When the TV is turned off at its front panel, it's really put into standby with its EDID circuits still active. That EDID information tells the receiver that the TV is available but not on. Unplugging the TV from wall power probably won't be sufficient, since then the TV's EDID circuits probably would get their power from the 5 VDC provided by the receiver over the HDMI cable. Different TVs do it differently, though, so disconnecting the TV from wall power (e.g. using a switched power strip) might work.

"HDMI Video Output" is described on page 159 of the 2400's owner's manual and the "Quick Select" buttons are described starting on page 128. If you don't already have a copy, the manual's PDF can be downloaded from http://manuals.denon.com/avrx2400h/na/en/
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post #7937 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 09:14 AM
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Just pulled the trigger on some Monitor Audio BRONZE 2's, a Bronze Centre and a pair of Bronze FX's to replace my KEF Eggs.... the Mrs is going to kill me, but the lounge is going to sound amazing now

Looking forward to hearing a bit more of what the 6400 can do once they're installed!
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post #7938 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 09:37 AM
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Airplay inop on AVR-X3400H after firmware update

I have an issue with Airplay not working on my AVR-X3400H after a firmware update. I would welcome inputs from others who have seen the same issue and might have a solution. Thank you.

I purchased an AVR-X3400H this weekend. Functionality, including Airplay, was as advertised after initial setup. After doing a firmware update, however, I was not able to connect any device (2x iOS devices, computer running iTunes) to the receiver. Following extensive troubleshooting (see below) with the firmware update installed, I reset the firmware to the factory settings and was able to setup Airplay again without issue. I did a firmware update a second time, after which Airplay again failed to work. After a second firmware reset, Airplay once again worked fine.

With the firmware update installed, I can connect the receiver to my home network (using "Wi-fi scan" setup or a wired connection) and stream internet radio. Also, I can see the receiver on my network and (intermittently) as an Airplay device, but I cannot connect to the receiver ("cannot connect" error when selected). In addition, if I try to set up the network connection using an iOS device, the receiver appears under "Set up a new air play speaker" and is selectable, but the setup process times out when trying to connect the receiver to my network ("an unexpected error occurred. try again." is the error message on the iOS device). In short, the receiver seems to be blocking connections.

All devices have the latest firmware & software and I have no other issues on my network, including no Airplay issues with other devices. I checked that the relevant ports were available on my network. I tried multiple AVR network and soft resets, power cycles, DHCP cycles, etc. I also troubleshot with Apple for a few hours yesterday. Denon customer support was not available yesterday, nor today. The only solution I have found is to revert to the factory firmware setting.
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post #7939 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
You might try setting the receiver's "HDMI Video Output" to "Monitor2" when you want to listen to audio while the TV is "off". You probably can use two of the receiver's remote's "Quick Select" buttons to make this easier: one for when you're listening to FM with Monitor2 selected and another for watching Blu-rays with Monitor1 selected.

Let us know whether or not this works for you.

I'm assuming you have the TV plugged into Monitor1 and nothing plugged into Monitor2. With Monitor2 selected, the receiver should not be able to detect any display device, so it should be willing to output audio on its own. If later you add a projector plugged into Monitor2, this workaround won't work, though.

The default setting of "HDMI Video Output" is "Auto(Dual)" which looks for a display device on both HDMI outputs. When the TV is turned off at its front panel, it's really put into standby with its EDID circuits still active. That EDID information tells the receiver that the TV is available but not on. Unplugging the TV from wall power probably won't be sufficient, since then the TV's EDID circuits probably would get their power from the 5 VDC provided by the receiver over the HDMI cable. Different TVs do it differently, though, so disconnecting the TV from wall power (e.g. using a switched power strip) might work.

"HDMI Video Output" is described on page 159 of the 2400's owner's manual and the "Quick Select" buttons are described starting on page 128. If you don't already have a copy, the manual's PDF can be downloaded from
Thank you, you are correct, tv is plugged into monitor 1. i have the manual and have gone through it pretty thoroughly. I will try that and let you know. also, i have a habit of walking by the equipment at the entrance to my living room and hitting the power buttons on the equipment to power it up or to shut it down on the way out of the room. i may have to adjust my own habits a bit! Im not planning on adding another tv or projector to the system. i have about 5 complete surround systems in this house. every time i upgrade something the old piece downshifts to another system.
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post #7940 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
As someone who just upgraded from an 2100W to a 3400H, IMO the new surround upmixer is poo compared to PLII. The PLII music upmixer was really good. The new one is awful for music. For 2 channel movies I have not used too much so not a lot of experience there.

i hope it works good for 2 channel movies if not then i will be very disappointed. it doesnt make any since to take something that works great and turn it in to poo. seems thats the standards of today.
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post #7941 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by aw73 View Post
i hope it works good for 2 channel movies if not then i will be very disappointed. it doesnt make any since to take something that works great and turn it in to poo. seems thats the standards of today.

Are you thinking execs were sitting around making decisions and said, "let's take something that works great and turn it into poo..." ???
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post #7942 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by labboypro View Post
Are you thinking execs were sitting around making decisions and said, "let's take something that works great and turn it into poo..." ???

i dont think they think about anything except there wallets and how they can increase the size of it.


i could make a list a mile long of things companies turned into sh.t.
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post #7943 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aw73 View Post
i hope it works good for 2 channel movies if not then i will be very disappointed. it doesnt make any since to take something that works great and turn it in to poo. seems thats the standards of today.
I think it may be OK. I pretty much never watch a 2 ch movie. There is an OTA TV channel that broadcasts in 2 channel that we watch sometimes but thats about it so I just have not used it. The new DSU was made for Atmos upmixing so movie content was the intent. Its just really bad if you use it for music. I found an acceptable workaround for that.
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post #7944 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by skern View Post
I have an issue with Airplay not working on my AVR-X3400H after a firmware update. I would welcome inputs from others who have seen the same issue and might have a solution. Thank you.

I purchased an AVR-X3400H this weekend. Functionality, including Airplay, was as advertised after initial setup. After doing a firmware update, however, I was not able to connect any device (2x iOS devices, computer running iTunes) to the receiver. Following extensive troubleshooting (see below) with the firmware update installed, I reset the firmware to the factory settings and was able to setup Airplay again without issue. I did a firmware update a second time, after which Airplay again failed to work. After a second firmware reset, Airplay once again worked fine.

With the firmware update installed, I can connect the receiver to my home network (using "Wi-fi scan" setup or a wired connection) and stream internet radio. Also, I can see the receiver on my network and (intermittently) as an Airplay device, but I cannot connect to the receiver ("cannot connect" error when selected). In addition, if I try to set up the network connection using an iOS device, the receiver appears under "Set up a new air play speaker" and is selectable, but the setup process times out when trying to connect the receiver to my network ("an unexpected error occurred. try again." is the error message on the iOS device). In short, the receiver seems to be blocking connections.

All devices have the latest firmware & software and I have no other issues on my network, including no Airplay issues with other devices. I checked that the relevant ports were available on my network. I tried multiple AVR network and soft resets, power cycles, DHCP cycles, etc. I also troubleshot with Apple for a few hours yesterday. Denon customer support was not available yesterday, nor today. The only solution I have found is to revert to the factory firmware setting.
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Airplay inop on AVR-X3400H after firmware update
I have an issue with Airplay not working on my AVR-X3400H after a firmware update.
Similar problem here, trying to connect an iPad to Airplay to the Denon S930H -- I get a prompt to "enter the onscreen code for Denon AVR-S930H" but the code is nowhere to be found. Happens when selecting Denon as an AirPlay option, or when trying to add the Denon as an 'accessory' in the Home app.

I'm pretty sure it worked fine before the last "AirPlay 2" firmware update.
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post #7945 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by avman09 View Post
Of course, just press the zone 2 on/off button. Or you can use the remote, press Z2, then the power button.
I use the Denon iPhone app for zone2 control. Makes it very easy to power on/off and select source for zone2. And it works over WiFi so you don’t have to be in the same room as the AVR (I use zone2 for one of my outdoor patios).

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post #7946 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 09:11 PM
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I have an S930H with a 5.1 speaker setup. I would really like to get into Dolby Atmos, especially now that the ATV4K is adding Atmos. I can't really do rear speakers in my space. Also, I have a vaulted ceiling and in-ceiling overhead speakers would be difficult.

I previously posted that I bought a pair of upward-firing Atmos-enabled speakers before I knew anything about Atmos and didn't know that they wouldn't work with the vaulted ceilings. It was suggested that I mount them to the wall in back of the TV instead, firing down on the listening position, and set them to be "Front Height" speakers in the Denon. My question is: Is that an actual Atmos configuration, and would the Denon recognize it as such? Is there something I need to specify in the Denon setup for that?

I'm actually thinking of buying a pair of Focal Little Birds and mounting them on that front wall instead of trying the Atmos-enabled speakers that way. Looks like they would be easier to mount and I could play around with the direction to point them in. But if I can't create an actual Atmos setup, I probably don't want to bother.

Assuming this would do what I want, what is the optimal FH speaker placement? My regular front L-R speakers are pretty wide, fairly far from the TV. Should the FH speakers be above them, or with a narrower field and closer to the TV? Height-wise, they would need to go above windows I have to either side of the TV, so they would be around 7-8 feet off the floor.

Any advice appreciated... thanks!
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post #7947 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 09:44 PM
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Hello: I just purchased an AVR X3400H and have a weird issue just with the CBL/SAT input, which is connected to my TiVo Bolt. When I power on and select CBL/SAT, I get massive audio skips and video dropouts to black...sound goes out and comes back after a sec or two, same with video. At first I thought it was HDMI cable issues, until I found a workaround: if I switch to any other input (i.e., DVD) then switch back, the CBL/SAT input behaves normally, no skips or dropouts!

I went through this thread and while I've seen other posts about skips and dropouts, I haven't seen this specific workaround. I've got my LG TV hooked up with ARC (I know, red flag)...but the fact that I can clear the CBL/SAT issue every time by switching the inputs leads me to believe it's software (in fact, I just programmed this sequence into my Harmony and assigned it to a free button on the remote). The workaround works for me, but I'd really like to get this working right for guests (which it should for a $600 receiver). I can unhook the ARC and pass audio via optical cable, but before I run more cables I'd like to see if anyone has any ideas...my apologies if this issue has been posted before! Thx
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post #7948 of 12375 Old 09-03-2018, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludditus View Post
Similar problem here, trying to connect an iPad to Airplay to the Denon S930H -- I get a prompt to "enter the onscreen code for Denon AVR-S930H" but the code is nowhere to be found. Happens when selecting Denon as an AirPlay option, or when trying to add the Denon as an 'accessory' in the Home app.

I'm pretty sure it worked fine before the last "AirPlay 2" firmware update.
Figured it out ... my *work* iPad had restrictions in the Blackberry UEM device manager that required a password on all outgoing AirPlay requests. Setting up home with a non-work iPhone, I was able to add the Denon speakers as an accessory, and now they seem to be available to either device since they share the Home setup.
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post #7949 of 12375 Old 09-04-2018, 03:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royabitbol View Post
Hello: I just purchased an AVR X3400H and have a weird issue just with the CBL/SAT input, which is connected to my TiVo Bolt. When I power on and select CBL/SAT, I get massive audio skips and video dropouts to black...sound goes out and comes back after a sec or two, same with video. At first I thought it was HDMI cable issues, until I found a workaround: if I switch to any other input (i.e., DVD) then switch back, the CBL/SAT input behaves normally, no skips or dropouts!

I went through this thread and while I've seen other posts about skips and dropouts, I haven't seen this specific workaround. I've got my LG TV hooked up with ARC (I know, red flag)...but the fact that I can clear the CBL/SAT issue every time by switching the inputs leads me to believe it's software (in fact, I just programmed this sequence into my Harmony and assigned it to a free button on the remote). The workaround works for me, but I'd really like to get this working right for guests (which it should for a $600 receiver). I can unhook the ARC and pass audio via optical cable, but before I run more cables I'd like to see if anyone has any ideas...my apologies if this issue has been posted before! Thx
You can mitigate HDMI handshake issues by powering on the components in a specific sequence, most often: TV, pause 5 seconds, AVR, pause 5 seconds, source.

Also try simply using a different input for the TiVo Bolt, one closer to the HDMI monitor outputs (ie. Media Player, AUX 2, CD).
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post #7950 of 12375 Old 09-04-2018, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rwinston View Post
I have an S930H with a 5.1 speaker setup. I would really like to get into Dolby Atmos, especially now that the ATV4K is adding Atmos. I can't really do rear speakers in my space. Also, I have a vaulted ceiling and in-ceiling overhead speakers would be difficult.

I previously posted that I bought a pair of upward-firing Atmos-enabled speakers before I knew anything about Atmos and didn't know that they wouldn't work with the vaulted ceilings. It was suggested that I mount them to the wall in back of the TV instead, firing down on the listening position, and set them to be "Front Height" speakers in the Denon. My question is: Is that an actual Atmos configuration, and would the Denon recognize it as such? Is there something I need to specify in the Denon setup for that?

I'm actually thinking of buying a pair of Focal Little Birds and mounting them on that front wall instead of trying the Atmos-enabled speakers that way. Looks like they would be easier to mount and I could play around with the direction to point them in. But if I can't create an actual Atmos setup, I probably don't want to bother.

Assuming this would do what I want, what is the optimal FH speaker placement? My regular front L-R speakers are pretty wide, fairly far from the TV. Should the FH speakers be above them, or with a narrower field and closer to the TV? Height-wise, they would need to go above windows I have to either side of the TV, so they would be around 7-8 feet off the floor.

Any advice appreciated... thanks!
1. Yes. Refer to your Owner's manual, p. 40, Amp Assign, as well as post 7 of this thread.
2. Refer to p. 43 of your Owner's manual.
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