"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 268 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8011 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
With the remote: Setup>Speakers>Manual Setup>Levels>Test Tones
Or: Option>Channel Level Select for current source.
At least, that's how it works with the x4300h, would assume the same for the x4400h.
I understand that for the setup. I am referring to adjusting the level with the IOS app while watching video or listening to music.
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post #8012 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 08:33 AM
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August Update Corrupted My Receivers

I have an odd problem - and do not know if this has been reported.

I have both an AVR-6300H and AVR-6400H; I just performed the August update about 2 weeks ago; but that causined an audio issue.

When I use the "Dolby Surround" processor mode (I prefer it over DTS); the audio is completely mangled/distorted. Now I can actually resolve the "Dolby Surround" issue by going into menu and changing a Dolby setting (such as editing the center channel to wide surround on or off - it doesn't matter just need to toggle the setting (thats the settings that uses the left/right speaker as well as center speaker for surround)). The Dolby audio then is clean and working again, but if you power cycle or change an input - the issue reverts back to the poor audio output.

Any other audio processing mode works fine - it is only the Dolby Surround setting that has gone haywire - and only AFTER applying the August update (I wanted to use Airplay 2)

Since it happened on both the 6300H and 6400H; I am almost guaranteeing a firmware issue - the only oddity is no one here seems to talk about it. So I don't know if it only affects the 6X00H series? Any one else seeing the issue? Anyone have a copy of the previous firmware - so I can backdate my AVRs?
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post #8013 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownmastiff View Post
I have an odd problem - and do not know if this has been reported.

I have both an AVR-6300H and AVR-6400H; I just performed the August update about 2 weeks ago; but that causined an audio issue.

When I use the "Dolby Surround" processor mode (I prefer it over DTS); the audio is completely mangled/distorted. Now I can actually resolve the "Dolby Surround" issue by going into menu and changing a Dolby setting (such as editing the center channel to wide surround on or off - it doesn't matter just need to toggle the setting (thats the settings that uses the left/right speaker as well as center speaker for surround)). The Dolby audio then is clean and working again, but if you power cycle or change an input - the issue reverts back to the poor audio output.

Any other audio processing mode works fine - it is only the Dolby Surround setting that has gone haywire - and only AFTER applying the August update (I wanted to use Airplay 2)

Since it happened on both the 6300H and 6400H; I am almost guaranteeing a firmware issue - the only oddity is no one here seems to talk about it. So I don't know if it only affects the 6X00H series? Any one else seeing the issue? Anyone have a copy of the previous firmware - so I can backdate my AVRs?
I have a x6400h and have not experienced the issue you describe post August firmware update.

Mark
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post #8014 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gfgrimmjr View Post
Registered to post this thread, but have been reading these forums for many years.

AVR-X6400H, owned since April 2018. No issues until 8/9/2018. I believe that my unit auto updated FW as I have 6451-0361-0191-6164 now (AirPlay2 update).


Setup:

Input Stream: 48kHz 2CH PCM (Apple TV 4K & Xbox One X) (does not repro with 8CH PCM or Dolby TrueHD in my case)
Output Sound Mode: Dolby Surround (this is the only mode that repros for me)
Speaker Configuration: Dolby Recommended 7.1.4 w/ 4 ceiling speakers
EQ: Audyssey XT32 Reference


If the behavior is not present at power-on, toggling through sound modes and back to Dolby Surround almost always results in most of my speakers not outputting sound and the ones that still do feature large amounts of distortion in the audio output. My workaround is to use the DTS Neural:X for 2CH PCM up-mixing (think Amazon Video on Apple TV4K as the use case).

Can anyone else with the latest FW update repro this behavior?
Yes absolutely can confirm - I was scrolling through this thread to find someone else with the issue.

What did you do to fix it? Have you been able to fix it?
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post #8015 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by allisonok View Post
I noticed this problem tonight on my 6300. Someone else posted about it in the 2016 Denon thread as well. I downloaded the old firmware from Denon's website and installed it via USB and the problem went away. (I came here to see if it was affecting other models.)
I too have the issue (maybe it is something with a 7.2.4 setup?); here is my next problem; I go to Denon to get the old firmware for the 6400H and 6300H - enter my serial number and am told there are no firmware files available. What site do you go to get the old firmware?
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post #8016 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 08:59 AM
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just to clarify

hi

just to clarify

if i was to use my denon 4400 with 2 emotiva t2 fronts and c2 centre
what can 2 amps can i use to vastly increase the 2 front speakers quality of sound
i want to connect 2 amps to the main denon 4400
to the low frequencies of the main left of each left and right speaker
and then the other amp for the high frequencies of the left and right terminals

what would be the best opions to use
i already have a emotiva xpa2 gen3
what do people advise thanks

then i will use emotiva upa 200 blocks to improve each speaker
i will be using a 11.4 system
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post #8017 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by brownmastiff View Post
I too have the issue (maybe it is something with a 7.2.4 setup?); here is my next problem; I go to Denon to get the old firmware for the 6400H and 6300H - enter my serial number and am told there are no firmware files available. What site do you go to get the old firmware?
Did you provide just the numeric part of the serial number? The form doesn't want the letters.
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post #8018 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownmastiff View Post
I too have the issue (maybe it is something with a 7.2.4 setup?); here is my next problem; I go to Denon to get the old firmware for the 6400H and 6300H - enter my serial number and am told there are no firmware files available. What site do you go to get the old firmware?
I am using a x6400h with latest firmware and running in a 7.2.4 configuration. I have not experienced this issue although I have not overtly tried to make it occur. When I get some time I’ll try the steps you have indicated will cause the issue and report what I find.

Mark
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post #8019 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownmastiff View Post
I too have the issue (maybe it is something with a 7.2.4 setup?); here is my next problem; I go to Denon to get the old firmware for the 6400H and 6300H - enter my serial number and am told there are no firmware files available. What site do you go to get the old firmware?
Did you provide just the numeric part of the serial number? The form doesn't want the letters.
I did provide the full serial number - that was probably the issue (although interestingly the UK site does take the full serial number with letters); but since a couple other members have reported the same issue - I will probably hold out for a patch and use DTS; I am glad I am not the only one with the issue at least
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post #8020 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
I am using a x6400h with latest firmware and running in a 7.2.4 configuration. I have not experienced this issue although I have not overtly tried to make it occur. When I get some time I’ll try the steps you have indicated will cause the issue and report what I find.
That would be interesting to see; I am sure there is some common theme for those with the issue; I opened a case with Denon before going on the forums here to - the first rep wanted to just send in both my units for repair; but I pointed to the other users having the issues here (just sent that back to them); I’ll followup as they get back to me
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post #8021 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by camd5pt0 View Post
Well looks like I'll be upgrading next year to 4500H. It'll support HDMI 2.1 and have IMAX enhanced.
How do you know it'll have IMAX enhanced, out of interest? It's not easy to find real technical details on what it actually is yet.

If you have a link to Denon's announcement that they will implement the IMAX enhanced spec in full, I'd appreciate it.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...hanced-Program
has a tiny amount of information, heavily caveated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by businesswire
To be accepted into the program, leading consumer electronics manufacturers will design top-of-the-line 4K HDR televisions, A/V receivers, sound systems and other home theatre equipment to meet a carefully prescribed set of the highest audio and video performance standards, set by a certification committee of IMAX and DTS engineers and Hollywood’s leading technical specialists.
Ok, so that must obviously mean:
  • Dolby Vision video using iCtCp, unless they are going to invent a whole new HDR standard
  • Dolby Atmos audio



Quote:
Originally Posted by businesswire
The program will use the newest, proprietary post-production process developed by IMAX to digitally re-master content to produce more vibrant colors, greater contrast and sharper clarity.
Aha! So all it is is just like those "remastered in 4K" Blu-Rays that used the x.v. YCC colourspace then? Like that?

We don't want "more vibrant colours", we just want "more accurate colours". When will they learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by businesswire
The companies will also partner with award-winning Hollywood sound mixers to use a special variant of its DTS:X codec technology integrated in home audio equipment to deliver an IMAX signature sound experience.
Uh-oh. Is it just a desperate attempt to bring DTS:X back to life? At minimum it's a new audio codec, with zero clues as to whether it's a new video codec.

Freeze those plans you had to buy a 4K Blu-Ray player - now you'll have to wait another year/18 months to get an early "IMAX enhanced" 4K Blu-Ray player!
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HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
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post #8022 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smdelaney View Post
Do the Denon and the TCLs play nicely over ARC?
I bought a TCL 55R615 a week ago, and so far ARC has worked perfectly with my Denon X3400H. No dropouts or anything. My other sources are an Apple TV 4K and Philips BDP7502. I have a Harmony remote, so all other CEC functionality is disabled.

(*knocks on wood to keep the ARC demons away*)
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post #8023 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by brownmastiff View Post
Yes absolutely can confirm - I was scrolling through this thread to find someone else with the issue.

What did you do to fix it? Have you been able to fix it?
I just use the DTX upmixer option right now until Denon puts out a fix for the DSU function for 2CH sources.


I let a former colleague at Denon know about this issue and it was passed along to their FW engineering team. Others on here who also repro this issue have gone through retail support channels. The right people are definitely aware, so now I think it's juts a waiting game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownmastiff View Post
I too have the issue (maybe it is something with a 7.2.4 setup?); here is my next problem; I go to Denon to get the old firmware for the 6400H and 6300H - enter my serial number and am told there are no firmware files available. What site do you go to get the old firmware?
I noticed this same issue and tried entering my SN without the ALPHA-prefix and that allowed me to download the 5/31 FW update. I think I'll just stick with the latest FW and use DTX upmixer for now and wait for a patch from Denon.
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post #8024 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
*looks at you blankly* Well, of course! Doesn't everyone?

____

It's just part of a natural progression:
Lots of people have TVs in their bedrooms.
Lots of those can't stand the horrible sound produced by in-TV speakers.
Lots of those have soundbars, but some prefer to enjoy full surround sound.

Mine's just a 5.0 system, though. I couldn't quite bring myself to add a subwoofer. The 8" woofers in the front mains seem to be adequate.
They're also part of a progression, having eventually migrated there after a decades-long series of upgrades to the speakers in my main A/V system (see sig).
lol, yup. i agree with you, i have 5.1 in all three bedrooms (looking sheepish) and 4.1 in the basement workshop, not done setting up the mancave in the garage yet.
was thinking about adding a tv to the stereo in the bathroom vanity......
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post #8025 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
Ok messed around with it a bit and its...complicated.
It depends on a couple things. I have an NVidia Shield connected to the AVR as well. If I was using the Shield and turn off the TV, it wont work, I need the TV on. CEC turns off Denon and Shield when TV gets turned off.
If I have TV input set to TV tuner which on Denon is TV Audio, when I turn off TV, its good. I dont need TV on when I launch Spotify

There are side effects. It seems the auto/monitor 2 is not remembered automatically per input. You have to recall with a preset. If I have the monitor 2 set for Spotify (Heos), if I use the Shield, I get no signal until I use the memory preset to set it back. I have not tried using monitor 1 instead of auto yet.

Does this makes sense? Not sure I described it well.
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Did you reconnect your TV to Monitor2 or did you leave the TV connected to Monitor1?
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
THANK YOU! This is a problem I have not been able to fix. I want to listen to music (Spotify Connect) without having to turn on the TV. The music source did not matter. Anything required the TV to be on.
well guys, ive been playing around with this, the denon doesnt seem to give me a choice to select a monitor output for fm. only for connected devices.
if i unplug the hdmi from the tv sound pops on, then i can reconnect cable and it stays on. i intend to try powering off equipment in a differnt order to see if that makes any difference. not sure why it worked that one day and not others. sjm, if you have any luck let me know. none of my other denons have done this.
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post #8026 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
I am using a x6400h with latest firmware and running in a 7.2.4 configuration. I have not experienced this issue although I have not overtly tried to make it occur. When I get some time I’ll try the steps you have indicated will cause the issue and report what I find.
I was able to reproduce the exact same issue with Dolby Surround mode. DTS Neural:x works fine so that’s what I’m using until they get it fixed.

Mark
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post #8027 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pgscubadiver View Post
well guys, ive been playing around with this, the denon doesnt seem to give me a choice to select a monitor output for fm. only for connected devices.
if i unplug the hdmi from the tv sound pops on, then i can reconnect cable and it stays on. i intend to try powering off equipment in a differnt order to see if that makes any difference. not sure why it worked that one day and not others. sjm, if you have any luck let me know. none of my other denons have done this.
What I think is the monitor out does not follow or stay with inputs. If you have the Denon set to Monitor 2, then it will allow sound without TV being on since TV is connected to Monitor 1. Pick a different input.

Try the HEOS input and set to monitor 2. Then switch to the TV Audio ARC (watch TV), and power off. It may work then.

The problem is after that. In my case, say I want to use my nvidia Shield. I get no signal to TV because of the monitor 2 setting. In other words, I dont think you can set one source to use monitor 1 and the other monitor 2.
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post #8028 of 12282 Old 09-06-2018, 11:03 PM
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Hi. I have a 4400h running a 5.1.4 set up with large front main towers. Is there any way to set the system up so that the front towers output in full range along with the subwoofer? I am finding that there is a setting to enable this only when running in 2.1 channel stereo mode. However, when I switch to any surround mode, the front main towers are crossed over and can not go lower than 40 hz. It’s very frustrating because it totally kills the mid bass for rock music and any other music that has a kick drum or other percussion instruments. Thanks.
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post #8029 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GlenH View Post
Hi. I have a 4400h running a 5.1.4 set up with large front main towers. Is there any way to set the system up so that the front towers output in full range along with the subwoofer? I am finding that there is a setting to enable this only when running in 2.1 channel stereo mode. However, when I switch to any surround mode, the front main towers are crossed over and can not go lower than 40 hz. It’s very frustrating because it totally kills the mid bass for rock music and any other music that has a kick drum or other percussion instruments. Thanks.
It's very rare that the subs in the Front L/R speakers (with often times imperfect placement in the room) will outperform a dedicated subwoofer that can also physically be moved to a better location which is why the standard configuration setting is to change the Front L/R from LARGE to SMALL/80Hz in Manual Setup after running Audyssey regardless of the physical size of the Front L/R speakers. However, if you choose to do so just leave them as LARGE.
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post #8030 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
What I think is the monitor out does not follow or stay with inputs. If you have the Denon set to Monitor 2, then it will allow sound without TV being on since TV is connected to Monitor 1. Pick a different input.

Try the HEOS input and set to monitor 2. Then switch to the TV Audio ARC (watch TV), and power off. It may work then.

The problem is after that. In my case, say I want to use my nvidia Shield. I get no signal to TV because of the monitor 2 setting. In other words, I dont think you can set one source to use monitor 1 and the other monitor 2.
You can if you use a different QUICK SELECT for each source.
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post #8031 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenH View Post
Hi. I have a 4400h running a 5.1.4 set up with large front main towers. Is there any way to set the system up so that the front towers output in full range along with the subwoofer? I am finding that there is a setting to enable this only when running in 2.1 channel stereo mode. However, when I switch to any surround mode, the front main towers are crossed over and can not go lower than 40 hz. It’s very frustrating because it totally kills the mid bass for rock music and any other music that has a kick drum or other percussion instruments. Thanks.
What is your current subwoofer trim level?
What did Audyssey set it to?

If Audyssey set it to -12, that means that the subwoofer was too loud when Audyssey was trying to calibrate it. -12dB is the most Audyssey could turn it down and it was still too loud. If the subwoofer's trim was pegged at -12, then you need to turn down the gain on the subwoofer itself and re-run Audyssey. The manual's recommendation of 50% usually is much too high.

Did you increase the subwoofer trim level after the Audyssey calibration?

Most people dislike the flat response that Audyssey provides and turn its trim level up by about 5dB or so.

In the menu "Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/Front" you can set the Fronts to Large and in the menu item "Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/Bass" set "Subwoofer Mode" to "LFE+Main". This should work for all sources. If it's only working for Stereo, that suggests that you used the menu "Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/2ch Playback" to configure the Fronts and Subwoofer.

"LFE+Main" does cause "double bass" in the frequency range where the fronts and subwoofer overlap, which some people find objectionable.
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post #8032 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Most people dislike the flat response that Audyssey provides and turn its trim level up by about 5dB or so.

In the menu "Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/Front" you can set the Fronts to Large and in the menu item "Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/Bass" set "Subwoofer Mode" to "LFE+Main". This should work for all sources. If it's only working for Stereo, that suggests that you used the menu "Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/2ch Playback" to configure the Fronts and Subwoofer.

"LFE+Main" does cause "double bass" in the frequency range where the fronts and subwoofer overlap, which some people find objectionable.
Fully agreed, in fact I don't just go by hearing and I have run Audyssey and REW numerous time. I have a large collection of REW plots for the FL, FR, FL+FR, Sub only, FR+FL+Sub, All 7 speakers+Sub combinations. My Fronts have f3 down to 35 Hz, and the graphs clearly show XT32 is incapable of integrating the fronts with the sub without some significant dips and boosts in the 15-120 Hz range for crossovers below 80 Hz, let alone "Large". I believe for most people, if they prefer large and LFE+Main, it could mean either they have not found the best crossover points for their setups, or as you alluded to, they don't prefer the flatter bass response, or both.
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post #8033 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You can if you use a different QUICK SELECT for each source.
Thanks JD. I saw that. Just still a little "fiddly" operation picking the quick select audio or TV. I've gotten used to TV needing to be on. Not that big a deal. I need to revisit this and see what method works best for me.
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post #8034 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 11:44 AM
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Have a random audio mode settings question for you all, and thanks in advance for any help.

When I'm having on my PS4, the receiver shows "Multichannel In 7.1" as the default (PCM in the info screen). Is there an advantage or disadvantage to changing modes to say "Dolby Surround" (displays M In => DDS) or a DTS mode? Is one better? And what is happening when I change the output signal wise?

Thanks again!

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post #8035 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin View Post
Have a random audio mode settings question for you all, and thanks in advance for any help.

When I'm having on my PS4, the receiver shows "Multichannel In 7.1" as the default (PCM in the info screen). Is there an advantage or disadvantage to changing modes to say "Dolby Surround" (displays M In => DDS) or a DTS mode? Is one better?
Not necessarily. It's very much personal preference.
Quote:

And what is happening when I change the output signal wise?

Thanks again!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
If you have a 7.1 speaker system, the upmixers do nothing while you're listening to a 7.1 input signal: all of your speakers are already occupied. If you have a 7.1.4 speaker system, then the upmixers will cause sound to come from your overhead speakers. DTS Neural:X does accentuate the overheads more than Dolby Surround does.

You'll have to listen to find out which you prefer. Some people enjoy the results when upmixing stereo 2.0 to 7.1 or 7.1 to 7.1.4 surround sound. Some don't.

ETA:

The upmixers delete those sounds from the ear-level (or front main) speakers which they've moved to the surrounds and overheads. All Channel Stereo, in contrast, just copies them.

Selden

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post #8036 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin View Post
Have a random audio mode settings question for you all, and thanks in advance for any help.

When I'm having on my PS4, the receiver shows "Multichannel In 7.1" as the default (PCM in the info screen). Is there an advantage or disadvantage to changing modes to say "Dolby Surround" (displays M In => DDS) or a DTS mode? Is one better? And what is happening when I change the output signal wise?

Thanks again!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
If you use the PS4 to play Atmos/DTS:X BDs, you'll want to set the PS4 to "bitstream" so you see either DD or DTS but not "Multi CH In".
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post #8037 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 01:18 PM
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OK...so I have a 7.2 system, meaning that PCM and Dolby Surround would be identical? Or does the Dolby codec alter the sound? I generally use the Dolby Surround when available to utilize all my speakers (e.g. stereo sources from TV or Roku, or converting 5.1 to 7.1).

As for PS4 Pro settings, they are mostly default, and I only use the system for gaming. Watch movies on an Oppo 203, all sources to the Denon 930H, and single cord to TV.

Thanks!

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post #8038 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 01:54 PM
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AL32 Processing

I recently purchased the 4400 for a upgrade to my older Denon 2809 and am running into an issue with AL32 processing only working with HDMI connections.

It will not engage when using a optical connection ( 2 ch pcm signal), or analog, but works fine via HDMI. Anyone else seeing this? Does it only engage and work when using HDMI connections?

Any info or feedback would be appreciated.

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post #8039 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin View Post
OK...so I have a 7.2 system, meaning that PCM and Dolby Surround would be identical?
For 7.1 soundtracks, the results would be identical, yes.
Quote:
Or does the Dolby codec alter the sound?
No.
(Although it's not a codec. Dolby Surround is an upmixer which processes the audio provided to it by a codec. PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS-HD MA are examples of soundtrack encoding formats. Their corresponding codecs decode the soundtrack that's provided by the player device into a format which the receiver can manipulate.)

Quote:
I generally use the Dolby Surround when available to utilize all my speakers (e.g. stereo sources from TV or Roku, or converting 5.1 to 7.1).
So do I!
Quote:
As for PS4 Pro settings, they are mostly default, and I only use the system for gaming. Watch movies on an Oppo 203, all sources to the Denon 930H, and single cord to TV.

Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
You're very welcome.

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post #8040 of 12282 Old 09-07-2018, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post
I recently purchased the 4400 for a upgrade to my older Denon 2809 and am running into an issue with AL32 processing only working with HDMI connections.

It will not engage when using a optical connection ( 2 ch pcm signal), or analog, but works fine via HDMI. Anyone else seeing this? Does it only engage and work when using HDMI connections?

Any info or feedback would be appreciated.
You have to enable the input in the input assignment. You can map anything to anything.
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