"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 280 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8371 of 12282 Old 10-03-2018, 06:15 PM
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What listening mode do you guys use for watching ota tv? I have the audio coming over ARC from my tv.
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post #8372 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by morpheus647 View Post
What listening mode do you guys use for watching ota tv? I have the audio coming over ARC from my tv.


ARC is horrible. Too many issues with ARC. I use optical. The only way to do it


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post #8373 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus647 View Post
What listening mode do you guys use for watching ota tv? I have the audio coming over ARC from my tv.
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
ARC is horrible. Too many issues with ARC. I use optical. The only way to do it


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That's not what he asked. I don't use it much, but it works fine for me with my Samsung UN65MU8000, and I usually just use the codec it sends. Amazon Prime and Netflix.
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post #8374 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by morpheus647 View Post
What listening mode do you guys use for watching ota tv? I have the audio coming over ARC from my tv.


I tend to use DTS Neural X here, running a 7.1.2 setup. Sounds better to me than Dolby Surround does.


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post #8375 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by morpheus647 View Post
What listening mode do you guys use for watching ota tv? I have the audio coming over ARC from my tv.
I keep my listening mode on Dolby Digital as most channels here in Canada are in DD 5.1

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post #8376 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by morpheus647 View Post
What listening mode do you guys use for watching ota tv? I have the audio coming over ARC from my tv.
Normally I use DTS Neural x with my 7.2.4 setup but sometimes do switch to DD...it depends.

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post #8377 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by owenv2 View Post
I tested a few variations of settings while the system was in standby for more than 5 minutes.



Network on during standby and HDMI-CEC on: 9 watts
Network on, HDMI-CEC (and HDMI pass-through) off: 4 watts
Network off, HDMI-CEC (and HDMI pass-through) on: 4 watts
Both network off & HDMI-CEC off: 0.1 watts.
At least you lowered it to 0.1 watts

I get:

Network on during standby and HDMI-CEC on: 9 watts
Network on, HDMI-CEC (and HDMI pass-through) off: Haven't tested
Network off, HDMI-CEC (and HDMI pass-through) on: 4 watts
Both network off & HDMI-CEC (and HDMI pass-through) off: 3 watts
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post #8378 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mod220 View Post
anyone have some input, hoping to order today, thanks!
I hope @jdsmoothie could chime in at this point.
Dunno if I got it right, but you could connect to a single Avr up to 32 Heos loudspeakers, largely exceeding your needs. The sources could be a problem, though, You cannot listen to two different Internet radios in two rooms.
But I am not an Heos multiroom user.
Regards
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post #8379 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 10:22 AM
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New to Denon opinions wanted.

My wife recently purchased a S740h as the old pioneer let the magic blue smoke out, and after reading alot of posts on this and other forums I am concerned I will not be "pleased" with the end results. So I'm asking for your opinions, The bulk of the use will be movies about 80% of the time,

I have a dedicated HT room measuring 14' x 21' and 8' ceilings. It will push Klipsch rp280f mains and rp-404c with two 12" subs and some older JBL

surrounds until my bank account permits upgrading. The cost between the S740 and say X3400 is double plus some so that was also a factor when she purchased the receiver. I know the Pioneer moved the Klipsch's fairly well and the two receivers are rated about the same output wise. Long story short

should I keep the box sealed and wait for a sale or keep it for a couple years and upgrade when the budget permits?
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post #8380 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ubhystry View Post
My wife recently purchased a S740h as the old pioneer let the magic blue smoke out, and after reading alot of posts on this and other forums I am concerned I will not be "pleased" with the end results. So I'm asking for your opinions, The bulk of the use will be movies about 80% of the time,

I have a dedicated HT room measuring 14' x 21' and 8' ceilings. It will push Klipsch rp280f mains and rp-404c with two 12" subs and some older JBL

surrounds until my bank account permits upgrading. The cost between the S740 and say X3400 is double plus some so that was also a factor when she purchased the receiver. I know the Pioneer moved the Klipsch's fairly well and the two receivers are rated about the same output wise. Long story short

should I keep the box sealed and wait for a sale or keep it for a couple years and upgrade when the budget permits?

I don't know where you are, but in the US the X3400 is not double the price of the S740, it is on closeout at most retailers for 30-40% more than the S740h. That still hits the budget. It sounds like you've read up and know the differences between the models. The biggest differences for me are the best version of Audyssey on the X3400 and the longer warranty. The X3400 also has more power, but as I'm sure you know the Klipsch speakers you have don't need a lot of power to get loud.
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post #8381 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by owenv2 View Post
I don't know where you are, but in the US the X3400 is not double the price of the S740, it is on closeout at most retailers for 30-40% more than the S740h. That still hits the budget. It sounds like you've read up and know the differences between the models. The biggest differences for me are the best version of Audyssey on the X3400 and the longer warranty. The X3400 also has more power, but as I'm sure you know the Klipsch speakers you have don't need a lot of power to get loud.

Sorry I should of stated my location is in Canada, The S740h was on sale for $470 (regular is $750) The X3400 @bb regular price is $1,100 and for that price I would upgrade to the X4440 and get 9.2. So thats my problem, have 3 days left to return the receiver and wait for a great deal or will it be ample for our needs?
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post #8382 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ubhystry View Post
Sorry I should of stated my location is in Canada, The S740h was on sale for $470 (regular is $750) The X3400 @bb regular price is $1,100 and for that price I would upgrade to the X4440 and get 9.2. So thats my problem, have 3 days left to return the receiver and wait for a great deal or will it be ample for our needs?
I can't speak for the Canadian marketplace, but the 3400/4400 are discontinued models, being replaced with 5-series versions. As a result, in the US, the 3400 and 4400 have been deeply discounted to make room for the latest and greatest. The 4400 can be had for about $850 US.
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post #8383 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
None of this makes any real sense but I'm doubting Denon not you as the messenger
Thanks, I hear you. I do agree with you that Denon should advertise these parameters in their specs and manuals. I was kinda taken back when it did not work with 2 ch content on just those two types of connections. Hence my original post about the AL32 processing. Especially when it works on a older version of Alpha processing. I guess the newer models are just geared to HT, and it was overlooked or not possible for some reason with 2 ch optical and analog sources.

I don't doubt Denon but I'm hoping that they can enable it with a future firmware update. It seems unlikely so far since they messaged me back yesterday and stated with the current information they have, they said it would not be enabled with a firmware update in the future. Who know's though, maybe it could?

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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
So Alpha proccessing pops up on the receivers display when using HDMI? Ive never noticed this with my X4300H. So optical which is a digital connection doesn't enable AL32 but digital coax which is basically the same connection does? Or is it all SPDIF connections don't? Maybe I'll reconnect my optical cable from my multi disc CD player and check that against my digital coax connection (no HDMI output for that player.) They state the Alpha proccessing works on all audio channels which is very misleading as they never specify excluding particular inputs. Its obvious the processing is capable of working on those connections because of their other multiple products with this processing but without HDMI. Very strange. Thanks for taking the time to relay their response. They should include that in their advertising for it and in all their product manuals. After the fact isnt really good enough IMO but it is what it is.
Yes, it shows on the display when you press the status button. I'm pretty sure your X4300h shows some kind of notification of AL processing. I have the Denon 2809 with AL24 processing plus, which I believe your 4300 has? It shows AL24 on the front display when it's in use with no need to push a status button.

I have never tested coaxial, only 2 ch optical with my 4400. My 2809 with AL24 processing plus works with two ch pcm content via optical where the 4400 with AL32 does not. So I would assume your 4300 AL24 plus would work with 2ch content on your multi disc cd player via optical.

I've been pretty happy with the 4400's overall performance with both music and movies. AL32 processing definitely makes a difference in my setup and delivers better sound quality to my ears than my 2809's AL24 processing plus imo. I hope they can make it work with 2 ch content on those two additional sources someday and make me even happier.

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post #8384 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ubhystry View Post
Sorry I should of stated my location is in Canada, The S740h was on sale for $470 (regular is $750) The X3400 @bb regular price is $1,100 and for that price I would upgrade to the X4440 and get 9.2. So thats my problem, have 3 days left to return the receiver and wait for a great deal or will it be ample for our needs?
Hey, im a canuckdian myself. i grabbed my 2400 at 2001 audiovideo as it was onsale for half price (550). (still is with a little stock left) the 2400 is 95 wpc. not sure what the 740 was.
but this would give you 7.2 channels, and audyssey.
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post #8385 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
ARC is horrible. Too many issues with ARC. I use optical. The only way to do it


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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
That's not what he asked. I don't use it much, but it works fine for me with my Samsung UN65MU8000, and I usually just use the codec it sends. Amazon Prime and Netflix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarleyUK View Post
I tend to use DTS Neural X here, running a 7.1.2 setup. Sounds better to me than Dolby Surround does.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
I keep my listening mode on Dolby Digital as most channels here in Canada are in DD 5.1

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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
Normally I use DTS Neural x with my 7.2.4 setup but sometimes do switch to DD...it depends.
Thanks all, I'll try out Neural X tonight, Dolby Digital just didn't sound quite right to me. Arc is actually working pretty well for me. All the tv apps sound great, just OTA didn't seem quite right. Hopefully Neural X will sound better to me and solve that issue!
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post #8386 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 05:51 PM
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Hey Denon AVR owners, I apologize if this question has already been asked in answered. I searched, and I didn't find it.

I'm a longtime Denon 3808ci owner, have had it in my rig since 2007. This thing is built like a tank, absolute rock solid build quality. It's been through 5 moves, had countless speakers plugged and unplugged of varying impedances, nary a problem. I haven't ever upgraded because, until now, there weren't any new features that compelled me. But alas, I've gotten to the point where I'd really like to upgrade to 4K/HDR/Atmos/DTS:X, and I absolutely need ARC (my wife would debate me on that ... we have a fundamentally different understanding of what it means to "need" something).

My understanding is that the 3808ci represented the high point of Denon's build quality during its era, and that in later years the build quality dropped, at least in the mid-tier (possibly not in the upper-tier). My question, therefore, is what level should I be looking at among the 2017/2018 receivers in order to get comparable build quality? Or is it not there? I've read tons of pro reviews of the Xx200/300/400 receivers, and while I think I have a handle on the various feature offerings, and several have commented on the "good" or "excellent" build qualities, none compare build quality to the AVRs of the mid 2000s.

I'd like to stay in the Denon/Marantz family for the reason that preouts offer high voltage. (I will likely power my front 3 as well as zone 2 stereo from separate amps, and use the built-in amps for surrounds/heights). And, I just like them, what can I say?

So, if anyone ever owned the 3808ci/4808ci or similar and can comment on how the current crop compare in terms of build quality, that would be very much appreciated.

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post #8387 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 07:46 PM
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Can anybody help me with my TV audio I own X6400 for about a week now and when I switch to over the air(ota) it only plays audio for 15 sec at a time and then goes out then comes back on again. I upgraded from Onkyo TX Nr-3008 an had no problems with the arc audio. I'm running thru panny gt50 plasma, I was thinking it has something to do with the HDMI handshake issue, I even change HDMI cables and still have the same problem. Does anyone out there have any ideas or experiencing the same problem. This occurs only through the TV ARC Audio Netflix or dnla the same issue.
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post #8388 of 12282 Old 10-04-2018, 11:44 PM
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Hey Denon AVR owners, I apologize if this question has already been asked in answered. I searched, and I didn't find it.

I'm a longtime Denon 3808ci owner, have had it in my rig since 2007. This thing is built like a tank, absolute rock solid build quality. It's been through 5 moves, had countless speakers plugged and unplugged of varying impedances, nary a problem. I haven't ever upgraded because, until now, there weren't any new features that compelled me. But alas, I've gotten to the point where I'd really like to upgrade to 4K/HDR/Atmos/DTS:X, and I absolutely need ARC (my wife would debate me on that ... we have a fundamentally different understanding of what it means to "need" something).

My understanding is that the 3808ci represented the high point of Denon's build quality during its era, and that in later years the build quality dropped, at least in the mid-tier (possibly not in the upper-tier). My question, therefore, is what level should I be looking at among the 2017/2018 receivers in order to get comparable build quality? Or is it not there? I've read tons of pro reviews of the Xx200/300/400 receivers, and while I think I have a handle on the various feature offerings, and several have commented on the "good" or "excellent" build qualities, none compare build quality to the AVRs of the mid 2000s.

I'd like to stay in the Denon/Marantz family for the reason that preouts offer high voltage. (I will likely power my front 3 as well as zone 2 stereo from separate amps, and use the built-in amps for surrounds/heights). And, I just like them, what can I say?

So, if anyone ever owned the 3808ci/4808ci or similar and can comment on how the current crop compare in terms of build quality, that would be very much appreciated.
I upgraded my Denon 2805 to the 2016 X4300H and to me they were comparable in build quality, weight and power. Took my old reliable 2805 off of my rack and replaced it with the new one and haven't regretted a thing. Still have to take the 2805 to Goodwill sometime this month. Some have complained about the large knobs being a bit less tactile but to be honest I never even much used the 2805's physical knobs/buttons so why care?
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post #8389 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tingham View Post
Thanks, I hear you. I do agree with you that Denon should advertise these parameters in their specs and manuals. I was kinda taken back when it did not work with 2 ch content on just those two types of connections. Hence my original post about the AL32 processing. Especially when it works on a older version of Alpha processing. I guess the newer models are just geared to HT, and it was overlooked or not possible for some reason with 2 ch optical and analog sources.
That's pretty shocking if true because Denon is also Marantz and they share most every feature set so if those makes lack similar processing with their 2 channel enthusiast customers that would make me scratch my head. Again.

Quote:
I don't doubt Denon but I'm hoping that they can enable it with a future firmware update. It seems unlikely so far since they messaged me back yesterday and stated with the current information they have, they said it would not be enabled with a firmware update in the future. Who know's though, maybe it could?
Sadly doubt is the best attitude to have dealing with these large corporate outsourced CSR's and their product info. List as long as my arm as to what they've gotten wrong product knowledge wise over the few years I've been hanging out here and in other receiver makes threads. Not saying this is one of those especially with your own owner feedback but I wouldnt be colored to shocked if they are wrong about some aspects of it at the least.



Quote:
Yes, it shows on the display when you press the status button. I'm pretty sure your X4300h shows some kind of notification of AL processing. I have the Denon 2809 with AL24 processing plus, which I believe your 4300 has? It shows AL24 on the front display when it's in use with no need to push a status button.
I had the 2805 before this one but I can't remember ever looking at my display for that info. Just hit the status button and nothing showing with 2 channel PCM via HDMI. Satellite music.


Quote:
I've been pretty happy with the 4400's overall performance with both music and movies. AL32 processing definitely makes a difference in my setup and delivers better sound quality to my ears than my 2809's AL24 processing plus imo. I hope they can make it work with 2 ch content on those two additional sources someday and make me even happier.
Same here with my X4300H. Hope they do for you newer model owners. Good luck.

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post #8390 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 03:11 PM
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I've heard that atmos pass through on the 4400H doesn't work via arc on the 2018 Samsung QLED TVS, anybody know if that's true? If so when do you think they'll come out with a fix for it?

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post #8391 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 03:24 PM
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Hopefully never lol

Seriously, ARC is just so bad. Use optical and find another way to watch Netflix or whatever that can utilize Atmos.
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I've heard that atmos pass through on the 4400H doesn't work via arc on the 2018 Samsung QLED TVS, anybody know if that's true? If so when do you think they'll come out with a fix for it?
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post #8392 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 04:08 PM
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I've heard that atmos pass through on the 4400H doesn't work via arc on the 2018 Samsung QLED TVS, anybody know if that's true? If so when do you think they'll come out with a fix for it?

Which service are you getting an atmos signal from direct to your tv? I know Netflix doesn't support Samsungs yet. I have not yet seen a list for Amazon Prime video that claims to be complete, but I just know of the nicer Amazon devices that support it, with Apple TV coming soon.



Netflix's support from https://help.netflix.com/en/node/64066 as of this post


The following devices support Dolby Atmos with Netflix:
  • Apple TV 4K (requires tvOS 12 or later)
  • LG OLED TVs (2017 or newer models)
  • Sony BRAVIA Android TVs (2018 models)
  • Windows 10 app (requires Windows 10 RS3 Build 16299 or later)
  • Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Xbox One X


And contrary to Quicksilv3r's opinion, I have never had a hint of a problem with ARC with any equipment I've owned. It is very convenient and the DD+ I get from streaming services is usually good. Not blu-ray quality but still good. For now I still have to plug in my laptop to stream Netflix in 4k and Atmos sound.
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post #8393 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 04:53 PM
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I had the 2805 before this one but I can't remember ever looking at my display for that info. Just hit the status button and nothing showing with 2 channel PCM via HDMI. Satellite music.
That's odd. Try pushing the status button repeatedly if you did not do that. It should scroll thru all the audio source information and processing with each button press. If I only push the status button once on my 4400 it only shows the signal type and frequency and then reverts back to the input display after 10 seconds or so. Can't imagine it being different on your 4300.

So, when you press it again it should state format and processing. Press it again and it will revert back to the original standard input display.
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post #8394 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 05:18 PM
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Yes, fine when ARC works. But it sucks when it doesnt. Last year, randomly turned my tv and receiver on and ARC refused to work anymore. Even did factory resets and wouldnt work anymore

So I now use optical cable and don't ever have to worry.

There wasn't any firmware or updates on the tv or reciever at the time either. It was just random.

I warn people because I had to rip walls open to run my optical cable as I had everything buried in the walls. So when the issues happened, I was extremely frustrated and furious. So I hope others know the potential issues before praising the garbage of ARC

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Originally Posted by owenv2 View Post
Which service are you getting an atmos signal from direct to your tv? I know Netflix doesn't support Samsungs yet. I have not yet seen a list for Amazon Prime video that claims to be complete, but I just know of the nicer Amazon devices that support it, with Apple TV coming soon.



Netflix's support from https://help.netflix.com/en/node/64066 as of this post


The following devices support Dolby Atmos with Netflix:
  • Apple TV 4K (requires tvOS 12 or later)
  • LG OLED TVs (2017 or newer models)
  • Sony BRAVIA Android TVs (2018 models)
  • Windows 10 app (requires Windows 10 RS3 Build 16299 or later)
  • Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Xbox One X


And contrary to Quicksilv3r's opinion, I have never had a hint of a problem with ARC with any equipment I've owned. It is very convenient and the DD+ I get from streaming services is usually good. Not blu-ray quality but still good. For now I still have to plug in my laptop to stream Netflix in 4k and Atmos sound.
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post #8395 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tingham View Post
That's odd. Try pushing the status button repeatedly if you did not do that. It should scroll thru all the audio source information and processing with each button press. If I only push the status button once on my 4400 it only shows the signal type and frequency and then reverts back to the input display after 10 seconds or so. Can't imagine it being different on your 4300.

So, when you press it again it should state format and processing. Press it again and it will revert back to the original standard input display.
That did it. AL24 shows now.

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post #8396 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
ARC is horrible. Too many issues with ARC. I use optical. The only way to do it
ARC has its warts, no question. CEC, which I need to enable to get ARC, is not good. Or really the implementation by different manufacturers is inconsistent.
In any case, once CEC is sorted, ARC, for me anyway, works just fine. Optical has its limitations. 7.1 and Atmos being just two of the items that are important to me , and apparently, many here.
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post #8397 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
Yes, fine when ARC works. But it sucks when it doesnt. Last year, randomly turned my tv and receiver on and ARC refused to work anymore. Even did factory resets and wouldnt work anymore

So I now use optical cable and don't ever have to worry.

There wasn't any firmware or updates on the tv or reciever at the time either. It was just random.

I warn people because I had to rip walls open to run my optical cable as I had everything buried in the walls. So when the issues happened, I was extremely frustrated and furious. So I hope others know the potential issues before praising the garbage of ARC
This sounds like a problem with your hardware or firmware. It is a reach to condemn an approved protocol universally because you had a situation where it suddenly stopped working in your system. Now, I do sympathize, but don't quite get how one could use any level of logic to go from "I had a problem" to ARC in and of itself it "horrible" .
In any case, from my personal experience and lots of reading about the experience of others, it is not intrinsically "horrible" When it works, it does what it is supposed to do and is superior in a few ways to optical (SPDIF in general).


I just hate to have people that have not tried it read things like your unequivocal statements and then avoid using a superior protocol.
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post #8398 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppasteur View Post
This sounds like a problem with your hardware or firmware. It is a reach to condemn an approved protocol universally because you had a situation where it suddenly stopped working in your system. Now, I do sympathize, but don't quite get how one could use any level of logic to go from "I had a problem" to ARC in and of itself it "horrible" .
In any case, from my personal experience and lots of reading about the experience of others, it is not intrinsically "horrible" When it works, it does what it is supposed to do and is superior in a few ways to optical (SPDIF in general).


I just hate to have people that have not tried it read things like your unequivocal statements and then avoid using a superior protocol.


It’s not just my hardware. Read the thousands of posts online of people that had ARC working for a while and then suddenly it doesn’t work anymore or just flat out not working period.

It’s more of an achievement if you can use ARC without an issue of some sort. I used to use ARC for years with no issues, and a month after my new tv and new receiver, ARC broke.

Search these very forums and see how many people have had these issues. Especially those that have hidden wires in walls and such and have gone through what I have. Adding in the optical cable.

Tv apps are garbage anyways. You want HD audio from Netflix or at least DD+, use a roku stick or Xbox or the app on the UHD player or whatever.

People think it’s so convenient to have apps on the tv, but they don’t realize most apps are nerfed down or that apps on other platforms actually are better. I used to use Plex and Netflix and YouTube from my Samsung K8500 UHD player. Now I use my Xbox one x to handle those apps because the apps are so much better..

So is ARC a superior protocol ? Hell no. It’s just got different functionality.

CEC is horrible. Tv apps are horrible. People are lazy.

And I hope people that want to try arc read this and shy away.

Wait until eARC is out and fully implemented within the next 6 months. Then I’ll probably change my tune.




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post #8399 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Thunder240 View Post
Hey Denon AVR owners, I apologize if this question has already been asked in answered. I searched, and I didn't find it.

I'm a longtime Denon 3808ci owner, have had it in my rig since 2007. This thing is built like a tank, absolute rock solid build quality. It's been through 5 moves, had countless speakers plugged and unplugged of varying impedances, nary a problem. I haven't ever upgraded because, until now, there weren't any new features that compelled me. But alas, I've gotten to the point where I'd really like to upgrade to 4K/HDR/Atmos/DTS:X, and I absolutely need ARC (my wife would debate me on that ... we have a fundamentally different understanding of what it means to "need" something).

My understanding is that the 3808ci represented the high point of Denon's build quality during its era, and that in later years the build quality dropped, at least in the mid-tier (possibly not in the upper-tier). My question, therefore, is what level should I be looking at among the 2017/2018 receivers in order to get comparable build quality? Or is it not there? I've read tons of pro reviews of the Xx200/300/400 receivers, and while I think I have a handle on the various feature offerings, and several have commented on the "good" or "excellent" build qualities, none compare build quality to the AVRs of the mid 2000s.

I'd like to stay in the Denon/Marantz family for the reason that preouts offer high voltage. (I will likely power my front 3 as well as zone 2 stereo from separate amps, and use the built-in amps for surrounds/heights). And, I just like them, what can I say?

So, if anyone ever owned the 3808ci/4808ci or similar and can comment on how the current crop compare in terms of build quality, that would be very much appreciated.
I also had a 3808 for 10 years and replaced it with an X3400H. I was able to get nearly $400 for that old beast!

While lighter in build, the SQ of the 3400 IMHO is much better. For me, this is mostly due to the vastly improved Audyssey XT32 which has simply done wonders for my system in my room.

Also, there’s a decade worth of improvement in the DAC chips etc. Atmos is pretty cool as well. I also love the built-in AirPlay and HEOS (I picked up a HEOS 1 speaker which works well and sounds pretty good).

I don’t know if it will hold up (or need to) for the next decade, but I don’t see why not.
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post #8400 of 12282 Old 10-05-2018, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ppasteur View Post
ARC has its warts, no question. CEC, which I need to enable to get ARC, is not good. Or really the implementation by different manufacturers is inconsistent.
In any case, once CEC is sorted, ARC, for me anyway, works just fine. Optical has its limitations. 7.1 and Atmos being just two of the items that are important to me , and apparently, many here.
Where are you getting 7.1 through ARC? Many TVs only passthrough 2.0 PCM through ARC. Others compresed 5.1. Tried it. Too buggy. Went optical. Glad it worked for you though. If the TV industry would allow CEC functions to be disabled/enabled seperately instead of mashing them together in their settings I think things would work better but they don't. Late night phantom powering on of my receiver over and over wasn't working for me. eARC hopefully changes the game.

Spoiler!
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