"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 335 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10021 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X4400H is on clearance as it has been replaced by the 2018 X4500H. Consider selling the X3400H and upgrade to the X4400H and problem solved.
Hmmmm, not that I am looking to spend more money at the moment, but . . .

Will the X4400H permit me to play ALL 9 (wired) speakers in the main zone, AND my 2 Zone 2 speakers (wired) simultaneously? Or, if necessary, could I play the all but the SB speakers (including the 7 front speakers, and the Zone 2 speakers) simultaneously? Would it be an easy thing to switch back and forth?

Jim
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AVRs: Denon AVR-X4400H, Onkyo TX-NR1030, Denon AVR-X3400H, Onkyo TX-NR646
Speakers: BIC America LH6-LCR and FH-65B, Polk RTi6, Infinity Primus P362, Klipsch KSF-C5
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post #10022 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
Hmmmm, not that I am looking to spend more money at the moment, but . . .

Will the X4400H permit me to play ALL 9 (wired) speakers in the main zone, AND my 2 Zone 2 speakers (wired) simultaneously? Or, if necessary, could I play the all but the SB speakers (including the 7 front speakers, and the Zone 2 speakers) simultaneously? Would it be an easy thing to switch back and forth?
Nope, for that you would need to upgrade to the X6400H (11CH). The X4400H is a 9CH model which can either power 9 speakers in the main zone (or 11 by adding a 2CH amp) or can power 7 in the main zone and 2 in Zone 2. Your least cost scenario is to use the X4400H to power the 9 speakers in the main zone and add a 2CH amp (eg. AudioSource Amp100VS) to power the Zone 2 speakers. Another option would be to use the X3400H to power the Zone 2 speakers as well as perhaps speakers in another main zone (eg. bedroom).

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post #10023 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Nope, for that you would need to upgrade to the X6400H (11CH). The X4400H is a 9CH model which can either power 9 speakers in the main zone (or 11 by adding a 2CH amp) or can power 7 in the main zone and 2 in Zone 2. Your least cost scenario is to use the X4400H to power the 9 speakers in the main zone and add a 2CH amp (eg. AudioSource Amp100VS) to power the Zone 2 speakers. Another option would be to use the X3400H to power the Zone 2 speakers as well as perhaps speakers in another main zone (eg. bedroom).
jd, it appears I may have to let two speakers go, even if I go ahead and purchase a 9.2. Which, in your opinion, provides greater HT sound envelopment/excitement--the front heights or the surround backs, all of which are installed, with resultant holes in the walls?

Jim
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AVRs: Denon AVR-X4400H, Onkyo TX-NR1030, Denon AVR-X3400H, Onkyo TX-NR646
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post #10024 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
jd, it appears I may have to let two speakers go, even if I go ahead and purchase a 9.2. Which, in your opinion, provides greater HT sound envelopment/excitement--the front heights or the surround backs, all of which are installed, with resultant holes in the walls?
I don't have your speakers. I'm not there in your room. I don't have your ears. Only you can decide which sounds best to you by trying both setups.
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post #10025 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 03:10 PM
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Wardman,
You have a lot going on!

Since you use HEOS a lot, have you tried accessing music on a NAS or PC with it? I do not have multiple HEOS devices, just the receiver, but even if not 100% smooth, it would be cool to access the NAS music via HEOS if I could send it to zone 2 or 3 analog outs (not speaker outs) of my 6400H.

Thanks!

Bill
Wardman,
I am loving HEOS! I use all wired audio, no HEOS wireless. I use my main out of the wired-to-amp speakers and a zone 2 analog RCA out that feeds house zones/amps, all analog and wired.

My remaining issue is the delay between these two. I do not see any zone 2 delay settings. And since I am not using HDMI I don't think a lip-sync setting or anything would work. I use all kinds of DIY analog/digital stuff in various things but cannot think of something that would help this issue. The amp has the direct input of the music source and fires it out of the speakers....the analog out travels a long way to amps...and speakers....and there is a delay. I cannot speed that up. And I guess there is no way to "slow down" the main zone?

Not a deal breaker but would be cool to be able to play both, right now it is either-or.


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post #10026 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 03:56 PM
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Newbie 2400h user here! So I've set pretty much everything up, but I've been talking to myself all day trying to get Alexa to work.
I've downloaded the Heos and Alexa app on my phone. The Heos picked up on the 2400, and I set up the skill in the Alexa app. Everything seems to recognize everyone. However, when I talk nothing happens. I don't know if I'm talking to my phone, the Receiever, the wall.. What am I doing wrong??
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post #10027 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 05:34 PM
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@jdsmoothie , can you please help confirm my understanding for the following two set ups I will be comparing to see whether the 11 channel is much better than 9 or not.

I will be using SVS prime elevations mounted on ceiling.

1. 5.2.4 setup

Only thing I would do here is connect the wiring to the receiver for height channels and configure them as top front and top rear?

2. 7.2.4

Same as above with addition of rear back surround?

Appreciate any help

Ray


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post #10028 of 12260 Old 01-18-2019, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
@jdsmoothie , can you please help confirm my understanding for the following two set ups I will be comparing to see whether the 11 channel is much better than 9 or not.

I will be using SVS prime elevations mounted on ceiling.

1. 5.2.4 setup

Only thing I would do here is connect the wiring to the receiver for height channels and configure them as top front and top rear?

2. 7.2.4

Same as above with addition of rear back surround?

Appreciate any help

Ray


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Using Denon 4400


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #10029 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 06:59 AM
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Dan, many thanks, as I think I understand now!
I'm glad that it helped. My system is pretty basic, 5.1 in the living room. I thought about adding the kitchen as Zone 2 but haven't even done that yet.

What I suggested to you is based instead on programming a remote app for larger systems. One of the most recent was a 3 receiver, 6 TV monster spread out over 6 rooms of a large condo. It became very important to treat each zone as its own entity.

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post #10030 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
@jdsmoothie , can you please help confirm my understanding for the following two set ups I will be comparing to see whether the 11 channel is much better than 9 or not.

I will be using SVS prime elevations mounted on ceiling.

1. 5.2.4 setup

Only thing I would do here is connect the wiring to the receiver for height channels and configure them as top front and top rear?

2. 7.2.4

Same as above with addition of rear back surround?

Appreciate any help

Ray


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Actually, I have the almost identical question-- 5.2.4 or 7.2.2.

Look forward to responses.

Jim
St. Louis, MO area
AVRs: Denon AVR-X4400H, Onkyo TX-NR1030, Denon AVR-X3400H, Onkyo TX-NR646
Speakers: BIC America LH6-LCR and FH-65B, Polk RTi6, Infinity Primus P362, Klipsch KSF-C5
Subs: Polk PSW505 x 2, Klipsch Synergy Sub-10
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post #10031 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 09:46 AM
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New x1400h owner here..... trying to understand the sound modes. Pure Mode doesn't mess with the source sound right?
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post #10032 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
@jdsmoothie , can you please help confirm my understanding for the following two set ups I will be comparing to see whether the 11 channel is much better than 9 or not.

I will be using SVS prime elevations mounted on ceiling.

1. 5.2.4 setup

Only thing I would do here is connect the wiring to the receiver for height channels and configure them as top front and top rear?

2. 7.2.4

Same as above with addition of rear back surround?

Appreciate any help

Ray


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Setting them as TF+TR would be the first way to try (noting this favors Atmos/Dolby Surround) but I would also try FH+RH (noting this favors DTS:X/DTS Neural:X). Which you choose in the end would be based soley on personal preference.
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post #10033 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 09:52 AM
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Hi all,


I am looking at getting the MutEQ app for my 6400, and am toying around with the idea of installing an Android OS in a virtual machine on my PC to host it (A smart phone is not an option at this point). Has anybody gone this route, and what version of Android did the trick? Thanks!

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post #10034 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Setting them as TF+TR would be the first way to try (noting this favors Atmos/Dolby Surround) but I would also try FH+RH (noting this favors DTS:X/DTS Neural:X). Which you choose in the end would be based soley on personal preference.


Thanks JD. After discussing with wife today it seems unlikely that I would be able to do 7.2.4 as would move my huge surround speakers to the side walls and would look real ugly. So 5.2.4 is the likely scenario.

Would I still try and configure the same way you have suggested?

Trying to research how much I would be losing between 7.2.4 and 5.2.4 in a small room 2100 cuft and two rows of seating.


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Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #10035 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Thanks JD. After discussing with wife today it seems unlikely that I would be able to do 7.2.4 as would move my huge surround speakers to the side walls and would look real ugly. So 5.2.4 is the likely scenario.

Would I still try and configure the same way you have suggested?

Trying to research how much I would be losing between 7.2.4 and 5.2.4 in a small room 2100 cuft and two rows of seating.


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Again, this is really a personal preference decision. Some will prefer SB while others may not. The couple of times I've tried using SB speakers, doing so didn't result in any better listening experience than using a 5.2 setup with the "side" surrounds pushed back about 2' on both sides of the couch. Also with a 5.2.4 setup, you don't have to add an external 2CH amp which would be required to expand the X4400H from 9CH --> 11CH.
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post #10036 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Again, this is really a personal preference decision. Some will prefer SB while others may not. The couple of times I've tried using SB speakers, doing so didn't result in any better listening experience than using a 5.2 setup with the "side" surrounds pushed back about 2' on both sides of the couch. Also with a 5.2.4 setup, you don't have to add an external 2CH amp which would be required to expand the X4400H from 9CH --> 11CH.


Agreed and thanks for sharing your own experience. Whether I set them up a TF and TR vs FH and RH is something I would need to experiment. I had thought that if the speakers were on ceiling they should be set up as TF and TR.


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post #10037 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Agreed and thanks for sharing your own experience. Whether I set them up a TF and TR vs FH and RH is something I would need to experiment. I had thought that if the speakers were on ceiling they should be set up as TF and TR.


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Again, personal preference. My in ceiling speakers are set as FH+RH.
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post #10038 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Again, personal preference. My in ceiling speakers are set as FH+RH.


I’ll try them out and see what sounds better. Do you change their configuration in AVR each time you watch a different format like atmos vs dts:x?


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post #10039 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I’ll try them out and see what sounds better. Do you change their configuration in AVR each time you watch a different format like atmos vs dts:x?


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Nope, although doing so wouldn't require much effort as using a separate config each on a different USB thumb drive would only take about 1 minute to load or when using the MultEQ Editor app, generally about the same 1 minute to load.
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post #10040 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 10:22 AM
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Nope, although doing so wouldn't require much effort as using a separate config each on a different USB thumb drive would only take about 1 minute to load or when using the MultEQ Editor app, generally about the same 1 minute to load.


Great idea. I will try them out. Thanks again for your help JD as always.


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Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #10041 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 11:26 AM
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Wardman,
I am loving HEOS! I use all wired audio, no HEOS wireless. I use my main out of the wired-to-amp speakers and a zone 2 analog RCA out that feeds house zones/amps, all analog and wired.

My remaining issue is the delay between these two. I do not see any zone 2 delay settings. And since I am not using HDMI I don't think a lip-sync setting or anything would work. I use all kinds of DIY analog/digital stuff in various things but cannot think of something that would help this issue. The amp has the direct input of the music source and fires it out of the speakers....the analog out travels a long way to amps...and speakers....and there is a delay. I cannot speed that up. And I guess there is no way to "slow down" the main zone?

Not a deal breaker but would be cool to be able to play both, right now it is either-or.

BJBBJB
Great!

So it's sync between the external amps? Not between wired zone 1 and zone 2 speakers? I don't have any external amps, only Heos devices and as long as the AVR has HEOS seelected when I synch - they all seem to be in sync.
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post #10042 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 01:49 PM
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New x1400h owner here..... trying to understand the sound modes. Pure Mode doesn't mess with the source sound right?
There is Direct and Pure Direct. When you use either of them, Audyssey, bass management, and certain other circuits are bypassed are not being used. The only difference between Direct and Pure Direct is that the AVR font panel display shuts off when using the latter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater...enon_receiver/
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post #10043 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
There is Direct and Pure Direct. When you use either of them, Audyssey, bass management, and certain other circuits are bypassed are not being used. The only difference between Direct and Pure Direct is that the AVR font panel display shuts off when using the latter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater...enon_receiver/
Thanks for the great link. I'm still learning.


I'm thinking Pure Auto is the best sounding ..... currently watching an HDR title streaming from Amazon with a TV app on ARC... Pure Auto - front panel reads DDD+ DDS, What is the second part?
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post #10044 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 03:09 PM
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Agreed and thanks for sharing your own experience. Whether I set them up a TF and TR vs FH and RH is something I would need to experiment. I had thought that if the speakers were on ceiling they should be set up as TF and TR.


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From what I've read using heights instead of tops works fine for Atmos and is needed for DTS:x and auro. Using Tops supposedly doesn't play nice with DTS:x and auro. I set mine as Heights and everything works very well.
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post #10045 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 03:11 PM
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From what I've read using heights instead of tops works fine for Atmos and is needed for DTS:x and auro. Using Tops supposedly doesn't play nice with DTS:x and auro. I set mine as Heights and everything works very well.

Appreciate your response and sharing your experience!


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post #10046 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post
I'm thinking Pure Auto is the best sounding ..... currently watching an HDR title streaming from Amazon with a TV app on ARC... Pure Auto - front panel reads DDD+ DDS, What is the second part?
A couple of points there - there's no separate "Auto" mode in reality; what that means is that it's just returned to the settings you had before you switched to Pure/Pure Direct.

When it reads DD+ DS, that's "Dolby Digital+ with Dolby Surround". The input is DD+, and you are applying Dolby Surround up-mixing to it. This can happen when the input is 5.1 and you have 7.1, or extra ceiling speakers for example.
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post #10047 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
A couple of points there - there's no separate "Auto" mode in reality; what that means is that it's just returned to the settings you had before you switched to Pure/Pure Direct.

When it reads DD+ DS, that's "Dolby Digital+ with Dolby Surround". The input is DD+, and you are applying Dolby Surround up-mixing to it. This can happen when the input is 5.1 and you have 7.1, or extra ceiling speakers for example.
Ahhhhh ok.


Out of curiosity, is there a way to do without the second part? I have a 7.1 but I am just watching a 5.1 satellite broadcast.
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post #10048 of 12260 Old 01-19-2019, 04:48 PM
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I was playing around with setting up HEOS yesterday and everything was working great. Today I can't control volume from the app's slider on my Samsung Note while listening to Amazon Music... Any ideas?

***UPDATE This issue seems to be intermittent. I bet this app likes the iPhone better.

Vizio M75-E1 - Yamaha RX-V2085 - Polk LSIM703s/704 - Emotiva A300 - RSL Speedwoofer 10s - AppleTV 4K

Last edited by Dalonso66; 01-19-2019 at 06:16 PM.
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post #10049 of 12260 Old 01-20-2019, 12:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
There is Direct and Pure Direct. When you use either of them, Audyssey, bass management, and certain other circuits are bypassed are not being used. The only difference between Direct and Pure Direct is that the AVR font panel display shuts off when using the latter.
Also with PURE DIRECT, analog source video signals are disabled as well.
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post #10050 of 12260 Old 01-20-2019, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post
Ahhhhh ok.
Nearly every owner goes through the same "ah". I didn't realise until I read it here

Quote:
Out of curiosity, is there a way to do without the second part? I have a 7.1 but I am just watching a 5.1 satellite broadcast.
Yes - use the other coloured buttons to select a chosen mode without up-mixing. Just press the button repeatedly to cycle through the choices. It will stay on the last mode you chose.
Then, when you want to use Pure, press yellow, and to use non-Pure, press the other colour.

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HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
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