"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 352 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10531 of 12286 Old 02-28-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Whether an AVR has enough power to drive a set of speakers depends on the impedance/sensitivity of the speaker, minimum impedance of the speaker, the size of the room, and how loud you prefer listening. At average listening levels, there shouldn't be a problem; however, at louder levels, if the AVR shuts off in protection mode, simply don't raise the volume above that level.
Great, thanks for the note!
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post #10532 of 12286 Old 02-28-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
Radio stations on the X4400H. My question: Why am I unable to locate/save a major local radio station (KMOX, in St. Louis) on my X4400H? I get a "not available/supported" type of message. KMOX? Really? In St. Louis???

No problem with my Denon AVR-E400, though . . . .

Thanks.
KMOX can be found at Radio.com......it is owned by CBS. KMOX & other CBS properties moved to this site as well.
I cast Radio.com to my google home speaker. Not as good as the Denon HT system, but it works.

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post #10533 of 12286 Old 02-28-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sgondek View Post
KMOX can be found at Radio.com......it is owned by CBS. KMOX & other CBS properties moved to this site as well.
I cast Radio.com to my google home speaker. Not as good as the Denon HT system, but it works.
sgondek, thank you for your help. Now, where and how do I enter "Radio.com" into whatever screen is appropriate on the 4400H? I simply get no joy when I attempt . . . .

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post #10534 of 12286 Old 02-28-2019, 03:19 PM
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After the discussion the other day re Virtual:X, the best I could find re most appropriate info is the X4500 manual. IDK why they didn't update the X4400 manual with the info, or at least an addendum re Virtual:X, there are some important things to know about it.

Anyway, (+)Virtual:X is the "correct" DTS option to choose for a DTS soundtrack when you don't have any height speakers configured. I did notice that Audyssey DEQ is "grayed out" on the config display when using Virtual:X, but it didn't click. DEQ is in fact disabled, along with some other things I don't use anyway...perhaps worth knowing about. [Still no idea about the volume-limiting with Neural and Virtual though.]

I'm still not exactly certain why Neural:X is even an option when height speakers aren't configured, but it is for me. Need to learn more...I've mostly been a "DSX man" this last while.

Last edited by cfraser; 02-28-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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post #10535 of 12286 Old 02-28-2019, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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After the discussion the other day re Virtual:X, the best I could find re most appropriate info is the X4500 manual. IDK why they didn't update the X4400 manual with the info, or at least an addendum re Virtual:X, there are some important things to know about it.

Anyway, (+)Virtual:X is the "correct" DTS option to choose for a DTS soundtrack when you don't have any height speakers configured. I did notice that Audyssey DEQ is "grayed out" on the config display when using Virtual:X, but it didn't click. DEQ is in fact disabled, along with some other things I don't use anyway...perhaps worth knowing about. [Still no idea about the volume-limiting with Neural and Virtual though.]

I'm still not exactly certain why Neural:X is even an option when height speakers aren't configured, but it is for me. Need to learn more...I've mostly been a "DSX man" this last while.
1. The information has been listed in the first post since October 2017.
2. It is if you believe it adds to the sound track.
3. Again, as has been listed in post 1.
4. DTS Neural:X is a simulator that can be used to simulate to both floor and height speakers.
5. Audyssey DSX stopped being featured on Denon AVRs beginning with the 2016 models.
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post #10536 of 12286 Old 02-28-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
I'm still not exactly certain why Neural:X is even an option when height speakers aren't configured, but it is for me. Need to learn more...I've mostly been a "DSX man" this last while.
For upmixing stereo content although I like and mostly use the Dolby Surround upmixer myself.

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post #10537 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
Now, where and how do I enter "Radio.com" into whatever screen is appropriate on the 4400H? I simply get no joy when I attempt . . . .
You can't. But you can stream the station to radio.com on a mobile device or computer, and then Airplay or otherwise mirror it to the AVR. Yeah, an extra step that we all suffer through because Denon quit vTuner.
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post #10538 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
You can't. But you can stream the station to radio.com on a mobile device or computer, and then Airplay or otherwise mirror it to the AVR. Yeah, an extra step that we all suffer through because Denon quit vTuner.
Thanks, neighbor!

"Funny" that my lower-end model E400 receiver satisfies me on this, and the X4400H does not . . . .

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post #10539 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
You can't. But you can stream the station to radio.com on a mobile device or computer, and then Airplay or otherwise mirror it to the AVR. Yeah, an extra step that we all suffer through because Denon quit vTuner.
Doesn't your response assume an iOS (Apple) device?
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post #10540 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 08:56 AM
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Doesn't your response assume an iOS (Apple) device?
"otherwise mirror" includes streaming from Android and Windows devices that might be mirrored to a Roku or similar non-iStuff.

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post #10541 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 09:00 AM
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Hi jdsmoothie. Sorry, I guess I didn't re-read the whole FAQ. Believe it or not, I did re-read a lot of it, but not all. I'm sure you can reasonably expect that most people who have been using a device for more than a year don't re-read the FAQ daily. Or monthly. I mostly only read the info re FW updates on a more regular basis. And it still doesn't address why the manual doesn't have addendums like Denon used to do. Has the actual DTS:X processing re Virtual:X been in the FAQ since when you said? I am pretty sure the DTS stuff was heavily revamped after I purchased the X4400. My updated X4400 manual is dated April 2018 and it has nothing about Virtual:X; you would think it would be in there if they knew the info in 2017, IMO. And I did appreciate you answering my questions about the X4400 doing specific things that the manual is a bit obscure on, before I purchased it. It worked exactly how you said, and quite well.

I have no idea what "Audyssey DSX" even is, never even heard the term before that I remember. So I don't know what you mean by that. *I* meant that for most of my non-Atmos/non-7.1 content, I have used the Dolby processing rather than the DTS one. I never bothered to address the volume-limiting with Virtual:X, it has been there for quite a while. It's real, regardless of who did or didn't report it here.

Edit: I am probably using the wrong term "DSX", just like I didn't remember the name "Virtual:X" for the sound format at first. I actually thought the name of the Dolby processing was called DSX. Doh! So whenever I said "DSX" I meant the Dolby post-processing. Sorry 'bout that. I don't use these features much...obviously...I tend to just go with the soundtrack format as it's provided, no "enhancements". (And now you know why. )

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post #10542 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
Hi jdsmoothie. Sorry, I guess I didn't re-read the whole FAQ. Believe it or not, I did re-read a lot of it, but not all. I'm sure you can reasonably expect that most people who have been using a device for more than a year don't re-read the FAQ daily. Or monthly. I mostly only read the info re FW updates on a more regular basis. And it still doesn't address why the manual doesn't have addendums like Denon used to do. Has the actual DTS:X processing re Virtual:X been in the FAQ since when you said? I am pretty sure the DTS stuff was heavily revamped after I purchased the X4400. My updated X4400 manual is dated April 2018 and it has nothing about Virtual:X; you would think it would be in there if they knew the info in 2017, IMO. And I did appreciate you answering my questions about the X4400 doing specific things that the manual is a bit obscure on, before I purchased it. It worked exactly how you said, and quite well.

I have no idea what "Audyssey DSX" even is, never even heard the term before that I remember. So I don't know what you mean by that. *I* meant that for most of my non-Atmos/non-7.1 content, I have used the Dolby processing rather than the DTS one. I never bothered to address the volume-limiting with Virtual:X, it has been there for quite a while. It's real, regardless of who did or didn't report it here.

Edit: I am probably using the wrong term "DSX", just like I didn't remember the name "Virtual:X" for the sound format at first. I actually thought the name of the Dolby processing was called DSX. Doh! So whenever I said "DSX" I meant the Dolby post-processing. Sorry 'bout that. I don't use these features much...obviously...I tend to just go with the soundtrack format as it's provided, no "enhancements". (And now you know why. )
Manuals generally don't get updated after firmware updates, rather only when the next year's successor model is released.

Dolby Surround upmixer = DSU
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post #10543 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 11:29 AM
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I am looking to purchase a new receiver and have a question on the speaker channels for the AVR-X4400H. I read through the manual online but cannot figure this out.

Is it possible to connect 9 channels, including 4 Atmos speakers, and also use 2 channels for Zone-2? From the diagrams in the manual it appears you need to use the 4 'height' channels for the Atmos speakers, which would only leave the surround back L and surround back R channels for Zone 2. can they be used as such?

or are you limited to 2 Atmos speakers (Height 1) while also having Zone 2 and using the Height 2 channels for Zone 2?

Thx in advance.

I would also be ok w/ 2 Atmos channels and 2 Zone 2 speakers. I looked at the AVR-X3400H but it does not appear this would work as it only has 7 channels total, unless I added a separate amp. I know this can be done with the AVR-X4400H.

Thanks in advance.
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post #10544 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
Thanks, neighbor!

"Funny" that my lower-end model E400 receiver satisfies me on this, and the X4400H does not . . . .
The E400 is a 2013 model at which time vTuner was used on all of the Denon models. All HEOS models released starting in 2015 replaced vTuner with TuneIn.
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post #10545 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 11:37 AM
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I am looking to purchase a new receiver and have a question on the speaker channels for the AVR-X4400H. I read through the manual online but cannot figure this out.



Is it possible to connect 9 channels, including 4 Atmos speakers, and also use 2 channels for Zone-2? From the diagrams in the manual it appears you need to use the 4 'height' channels for the Atmos speakers, which would only leave the surround back L and surround back R channels for Zone 2. can they be used as such?



or are you limited to 2 Atmos speakers (Height 1) while also having Zone 2 and using the Height 2 channels for Zone 2?



Thx in advance.



I would also be ok w/ 2 Atmos channels and 2 Zone 2 speakers. I looked at the AVR-X3400H but it does not appear this would work as it only has 7 channels total, unless I added a separate amp. I know this can be done with the AVR-X4400H.



Thanks in advance.


Read through the posts. Especially since January 2019 where this is covered specifically


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post #10546 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jonrud12 View Post
I am looking to purchase a new receiver and have a question on the speaker channels for the AVR-X4400H. I read through the manual online but cannot figure this out.

Is it possible to connect 9 channels, including 4 Atmos speakers, and also use 2 channels for Zone-2? From the diagrams in the manual it appears you need to use the 4 'height' channels for the Atmos speakers, which would only leave the surround back L and surround back R channels for Zone 2. can they be used as such?

or are you limited to 2 Atmos speakers (Height 1) while also having Zone 2 and using the Height 2 channels for Zone 2?

Thx in advance.

I would also be ok w/ 2 Atmos channels and 2 Zone 2 speakers. I looked at the AVR-X3400H but it does not appear this would work as it only has 7 channels total, unless I added a separate amp. I know this can be done with the AVR-X4400H.

Thanks in advance.
1. Not powered by the AVR alone no. As noted on the Amp Assign settings on p. 44 of the Owner's manual, you can only do 7.1 + Zone 2 which would include 5.1.2 + Zone 2 as noted by the image on p. 67. For a 5.1.4 + Zone 2 setup, you would need to either upgrade to the X6400H or use an external 2CH amp connected to the Zone 2 pre-outs to power the Zone 2 speakers.
2. The X3400H can only do a powered 5.1 + Zone 2. For a main zone 5.1.2 setup, you would need to add an external 2CH amp to power the Zone 2 speakers.
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post #10547 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. Not powered by the AVR alone no. As noted on the Amp Assign settings on p. 44 of the Owner's manual, you can only do 7.1 + Zone 2 which would include 5.1.2 + Zone 2 as noted by the image on p. 67. For a 5.1.4 + Zone 2 setup, you would need to either upgrade to the X6400H or use an external 2CH amp connected to the Zone 2 pre-outs to power the Zone 2 speakers.
2. The X3400H can only do a powered 5.1 + Zone 2. For a main zone 5.1.2 setup, you would need to add an external 2CH amp to power the Zone 2 speakers.
Thanks JD, makes sense. appreciate the quick feedback!
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post #10548 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jonrud12 View Post
I am looking to purchase a new receiver and have a question on the speaker channels for the AVR-X4400H. I read through the manual online but cannot figure this out.

Is it possible to connect 9 channels, including 4 Atmos speakers, and also use 2 channels for Zone-2? From the diagrams in the manual it appears you need to use the 4 'height' channels for the Atmos speakers, which would only leave the surround back L and surround back R channels for Zone 2. can they be used as such?

or are you limited to 2 Atmos speakers (Height 1) while also having Zone 2 and using the Height 2 channels for Zone 2?

Thx in advance.

I would also be ok w/ 2 Atmos channels and 2 Zone 2 speakers. I looked at the AVR-X3400H but it does not appear this would work as it only has 7 channels total, unless I added a separate amp. I know this can be done with the AVR-X4400H.

Thanks in advance.
I think you're stumbling over the difference between "channels" and "amplifiers".

The X3... models contain only 7 amplifiers and also are limited to 7 channels in the main zone.

In contrast, Denon's X4... models contain only 9 amplifiers, but can provide audio to 11 channels in the Main Zone. If you want to drive more than 9 speakers, you can add external amplifiers to them. In other words, with the addition of enough external amplifiers, they can provide audio to 11 speakers in the Main zone (7.2.4) plus an additional pair of speakers in each of Zones 2 and 3.

If you want to drive speakers in Zone 2 but do not want to add external amplifiers, The X4... models are limited to 7 speakers in the Main Zone (e.g. a 5.1.2 speaker configuration with no Rear Surround speakers). They can repurpose what otherwise would be Rear Surround speaker binding posts to drive speakers in Zone 2.
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post #10549 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 01:28 PM
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"otherwise mirror" includes streaming from Android and Windows devices that might be mirrored to a Roku or similar non-iStuff.
Understand. But to be a purist, if you're "mirroring" to a Roku or similar non-iStuff, you're not mirroring to the Denon AVR. You're mirroring to a streamlining device attached to it.
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post #10550 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
"otherwise mirror" includes streaming from Android and Windows devices that might be mirrored to a Roku or similar non-iStuff.
Understand. But to be a purist, if you're "mirroring" to a Roku or similar non-iStuff, you're not mirroring directly to the Denon AVR as you can with Airplay. You're "mirroring" (in Windows and Android that would be "casting") to a streamlining device attached to it. The Denon does, however, support direct casting to it for DLNA (audio) via the Windows 10 Movies & TV app, Windows Media Player, and others, but I don't think you can cast natively from a web browser. Just a nit...

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post #10551 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 02:39 PM
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Understand. But to be a purist, if you're "mirroring" to a Roku or similar non-iStuff, you're not mirroring directly to the Denon AVR as you can with Airplay. You're "mirroring" (in Windows and Android that would be "casting") to a streamlining device attached to it. The Denon does, however, support direct casting to if for DLNA (audio), but you can't cast from a web browser. Just a nit...
If we were purists we wouldn't listen to 96kbps music anyway.
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post #10552 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 02:50 PM
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If we were purists we wouldn't listen to 96kbps music anyway.
There's a case for suggesting that anyone who confesses to that should be banned from this website!

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post #10553 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 03:12 PM
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There's a case for suggesting that anyone who confesses to that should be banned from this website!
Nah, as a retired teacher I would consider their participation here to be an educational opportunity.

BTW, Linn (Scotland) streams both Classical and Jazz at 300kbps. Sounds great! So does "Positively Baroque."
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post #10554 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 03:17 PM
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Hope somebody can help with this, just bought a Panny fx800, nice tv.
I have arc working but have lost all the onscreen display/overlays when playing netflix or youtube apps from tv.
From what I see I have everything set properly, using high speed certified cable. HDMI control is on.
Not sure whats happening, these are not 4k videos I am playing just regular youtube and netflix.
Thanks for any suggestions

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post #10555 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 03:21 PM
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Hi all,

I have searched through here but can't find an answer. I've had the 3400 for a bit and I have a problem. When I play audio only sources such as the FM tuner or vinyl (my preamp is in the Cable/SAT analog input) the receiver will turn itself off after random periods of time. When it turns off, there's no red flashing on the receiver to indicate any kind of surge, etc. I have discovered that if I listen to records with the TV on, however, then the receiver never turns off by itself.

I have the main HDMI out going to my Vizio and I use the HDMI control/CEC. Eco settings on the receiver are all set to off. I'm starting to think perhaps when listening to audio only sources with the TV off, the TV is somehow sending "power off" signals to the receiver?

Anybody have a similar experience? I really don't want to have to turn off HDMI control as it is extremely handy.

Thanks!
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post #10556 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sam_canavo View Post
Hope somebody can help with this, just bought a Panny fx800, nice tv.
I have arc working but have lost all the onscreen display/overlays when playing netflix or youtube apps from tv.
From what I see I have everything set properly, using high speed certified cable. HDMI control is on.
Not sure whats happening, these are not 4k videos I am playing just regular youtube and netflix.
Thanks for any suggestions


Hello fellow southern Ontario neighbor, when using the tv apps, it negates the volume bars/info bars.

Nothing can be done about that. Another “feature” of ARC that gets destroyed


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tv: Samsung UN75MU800, Receiver: Denon AVR 730H, speakers: 4x M&K S-1B and M&K S85c for center, sub: MKsound V12 HTPC, Samsung UBP-K8500, Rogers Digital PVR, Chromecast Ultra
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post #10557 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gunderson View Post
Hi all,



I have searched through here but can't find an answer. I've had the 3400 for a bit and I have a problem. When I play audio only sources such as the FM tuner or vinyl (my preamp is in the Cable/SAT analog input) the receiver will turn itself off after random periods of time. When it turns off, there's no red flashing on the receiver to indicate any kind of surge, etc. I have discovered that if I listen to records with the TV on, however, then the receiver never turns off by itself.



I have the main HDMI out going to my Vizio and I use the HDMI control/CEC. Eco settings on the receiver are all set to off. I'm starting to think perhaps when listening to audio only sources with the TV off, the TV is somehow sending "power off" signals to the receiver?



Anybody have a similar experience? I really don't want to have to turn off HDMI control as it is extremely handy.



Thanks!


It’s all HDMI control issues. Grab a great Logitech Harmony remote, and never worry about these issues again. Grab an optical cable, run audio from the tv to the receiver via cable, and the remote serves a better purpose as it WILL turn on or off the devices you want with one remote.

This is a very common issue with HDMI control. Nothing can be done about it.


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tv: Samsung UN75MU800, Receiver: Denon AVR 730H, speakers: 4x M&K S-1B and M&K S85c for center, sub: MKsound V12 HTPC, Samsung UBP-K8500, Rogers Digital PVR, Chromecast Ultra
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post #10558 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
Hello fellow southern Ontario neighbor, when using the tv apps, it negates the volume bars/info bars.

Nothing can be done about that. Another “feature” of ARC that gets destroyed


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This has nothing to do with ARC. The video showing on the TV comes from the TV when using native TV apps, so any overlay from the Denon will not show. Perhaps the OP's Panasonic does not support displaying audio information for when the TV is in this mode. My Samsung does. See the attached.
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post #10559 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PJL99 View Post
This has nothing to do with ARC. The video showing on the TV comes from the TV when using native TV apps, so any overlay from the Denon will not show. Perhaps the OP's Panasonic does not support displaying audio information for when the TV is in this mode. My Samsung does. See the attached.


That is using ARC. That’s not the native Denon OSD.... very different


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tv: Samsung UN75MU800, Receiver: Denon AVR 730H, speakers: 4x M&K S-1B and M&K S85c for center, sub: MKsound V12 HTPC, Samsung UBP-K8500, Rogers Digital PVR, Chromecast Ultra
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post #10560 of 12286 Old 03-01-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
If we were purists we wouldn't listen to 96kbps music anyway.
Sure, but it's still good to use the correct terminology and descriptions of how one would "mirror" using a non-Apple device. My point in the clarification was that you cannot do it without some sort of device attached to the AVR, unlike Airplay. Enough said.
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