"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 379 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11341 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisda1 View Post
I have the AVR-X3400H. Just for fun I've been trying to confirm that I can get Dolby Atmos to play through my 7.2 system (I've reconfigured my 2 rear surrounds to be Top Middle speakers so I should look like a 5.2.2). I have downloaded some Atmos trailers to USB and played them through my Sony BluRay. They sound great, but the AVR displays shows DDD + DDS. If I play the Youtube trailer from the BluRay YouTube App on the BR, the display shows DDSurround. If I stream YouTube Atmos trailers through my Roku Stick+ (supposed to be Atmos compatible...) the AVR display shows DDSurround and Info shows Dolby surround. I don't have an Atmos DVD.

Looks to me like I can't decode Atmos? Maybe something in my speaker configuration?? What IS playing sounds great, and with rear surround speakers I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 7.1 Surround or 5.1.2 Atmos.

How can I confirm that the AVR is detecting and playing an Atmos sound track? Is there a setup configuration that toggles between Surround and Atmos that I'm missing?

Thanks for any insights.
You may need to set Secondary Audio to "Off". My Sony is quirky that way.
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post #11342 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
In addition, if you are using a bluray player (mainly physical media source) for your streaming and other digital sources as well... that is where you will run into problems with compatability and such...bluray players are notoriously fickle in what file formats they will allow.... Regarding using a Sony player with a USB stick, you may not be able to play Dolby True HD files properly if they are MKV files....M2TS files may be OK though.. not sure though when using the USB option.... and the streaming Apps can have all sorts of logistical issues as well just with your account settings with that particular service on whether you are actually able to receive Atmos sound...The problem is not with your Denon...
I'm sure the OP appreciates the additional info, however, you're always better served quoting the OP and not someone trying to help the OP.
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post #11343 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mhmercer View Post
You may need to set Secondary Audio to "Off". My Sony is quirky that way.
Yes to all the above... Looks like I cannot get either the Roku or the Sony Blu-Ray to use bitstream. My Sony BR is set to "auto" and secondary audio if off, and still no joy. Denon INFO shows PCM for all my sources so I'll stop thinking about Atmos.

Atmos trailers sound great. Not sure I could tell the difference between Dolby Atmos or Dolby Digital Surround sound anyhoo.

Thanks for the info and suggestions.

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post #11344 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 01:33 PM
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Thinking about updating the old 4311CI with a new 4400H. Going for $799 now, new from authorized dealer. I am 75% music in a large room(32'x22'x8') currently running 11.4. The old Denon only plays analog audio in Zone2. So if I play a cd with Zone2 it is 13.4 (multi ch stereo). This is where a couple questions arise..
1) Will the 4400 play audio(not concerned with video) from digital sources..ie USB, streaming apps, HDMI in my two speaker Zone2 (using 2ch Monoprice amp)setup?
2)What happens to the front 11 when Zone2 is enabled. I have downloaded and looked at the manual. Will they be "downgraded" if using multi ch stereo?

3) Do you see the price going much lower than $799?
Love the old 4311, just would like to be able to play all music sources in Zone2.
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post #11345 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MRAYB View Post
Thinking about updating the old 4311CI with a new 4400H. Going for $799 now, new from authorized dealer. I am 75% music in a large room(32'x22'x8') currently running 11.4. The old Denon only plays analog audio in Zone2. So if I play a cd with Zone2 it is 13.4 (multi ch stereo). This is where a couple questions arise..
1) Will the 4400 play audio(not concerned with video) from digital sources..ie USB, streaming apps, HDMI in my two speaker Zone2 (using 2ch Monoprice amp)setup?
2)What happens to the front 11 when Zone2 is enabled. I have downloaded and looked at the manual. Will they be "downgraded" if using multi ch stereo?

3) Do you see the price going much lower than $799?
Love the old 4311, just would like to be able to play all music sources in Zone2.
1. The X4400H can pass PCM 2.0 over HDMI/optical/digital coax to Zone 2.
2. With an 11 speaker setup, the only way to power Zone 2 is via an external 2CH amp connected to the Zone 2 pre-outs.
3. There is no price discussion in other than the deals "sticky" thread.
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post #11346 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. The X4400H can pass PCM 2.0 over HDMI/optical/digital coax to Zone 2.
2. With an 11 speaker setup, the only way to power Zone 2 is via an external 2CH amp connected to the Zone 2 pre-outs.
3. There is no price discussion in other than the deals "sticky" thread.

Thanks JD. Yes, I currently use a 2ch amp for Zone2 on the 4311. Would use the same for the 4400 Zone2. Would the front 11 still play all 11(multi ch stereo setting) when Zone2 is enabled on the 4400? Or will the 11 in Zone1 be "downgraded" to 5.1 or 7.1?
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post #11347 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MRAYB View Post
Thanks JD. Yes, I currently use a 2ch amp for Zone2 on the 4311. Would use the same for the 4400 Zone2. Would the front 11 still play all 11(multi ch stereo setting) when Zone2 is enabled on the 4400? Or will the 11 in Zone1 be "downgraded" to 5.1 or 7.1?
Yes. The Zone 2 and Zone 3 pre-outs are independent from the main zone operations.
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post #11348 of 12286 Old 06-08-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Yes. The Zone 2 and Zone 3 pre-outs are independent from the main zone operations.
Thanks once again JD. Just ordered the 4400H from Fry's. Should be a major leap forward from the 4311CI.



Just a heads up... When I first hit "place order" it came back saying "unavailable". Left that tab open and opened a couple more looking elsewhere. Came back to the Fry's page and refreshed it and hit "place order" again, and it WORKED!..lol. Already received the email confirmation and UPS tracking info.
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post #11349 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 02:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MRAYB View Post
Thanks once again JD. Just ordered the 4400H. Should be a major leap forward from the 4311CI.

Just a heads up... When I first hit "place order" it came back saying "unavailable". Left that tab open and opened a couple more looking elsewhere. Came back to the Fry's page and refreshed it and hit "place order" again, and it WORKED!..lol. Already received the email confirmation and UPS tracking info.
Perhaps in newer features yes, however, as a former "flagship", the 4311CI is more powerful and also likely to provide better audio quality.
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post #11350 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 02:39 AM
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Love the sound of the Denon AVR-x3400h for home theater compared to the Onkyo nr-676, but a few questions...

I am in a 14x12 room and my seating position is 1-2 feet from the back wall. I am using the room horizontally meaning I face the wider 14' side for viewing my 120" projector screen, the shorter 12' walls are on my sides.

For a 5.1.2 Atmos setup, is Dolby's placement recommendation still best compared to what other peoples experimenting has found?
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

I have Infinity Primus 360 speakers, Infinity center, infinity P12 Sub, and then I have 5 sets of bookshelf speakers (can use different ones).

I have a choice between the Infinity, Sony Core, Polk, Dayton, and Monoprice speakers for the surrounds...

Way i have it now is Primus 360 and center in front, Infinity 140's for ATMOS, and the Daytons for the back surrounds.

Sub is located very close to my seating position, like 1 foot away, sounds too thundery and boomy, but i think that is more a fault of the Infinity P12 than anything else.

Any suggestions or changes to my setup?

I could use the Sony Core's instead of the Daytons for the rear surrounds, but probably a waste as I was going to use the Sony core's in another room. I eventually might compare the Sony Core Bookshelf to the Infinity towers, but I think the Infinity 360 would win for Home Theater due to driver size.

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post #11351 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 02:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Love the sound of the Denon AVR-x3400h for home theater compared to the Onkyo nr-676, but a few questions...

I am in a 14x12 room.

For a 5.2.1 Atmos setup, is Dolby's placement recommendation still best compared to what other peoples experimenting has found?
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

I have Infinity Primus 360 speakers, Infinity center, infinity P12 Sub, and then I have 5 sets of bookshelf speakers (can use different ones).

I have a choice between the Infinity, Sony Core, Polk, Dayton, and Monoprice speakers for the surrounds...

Way i have it now is Primus 360 and center in front, Infinity 140's for ATMOS, and the Daytons for the back surrounds.

Sub is located very close to my seating position, like 1 foot away, sounds too thundery and boomy, but i think that is more a fault of the Infinity P12 than anything else.

Any suggestions or changes to my setup?

I could use the Sony Core's instead of the Daytons for the rear surrounds, but probably a waste as I was going to use the Sony core's in another room. I eventually might compare the Sony Core Bookshelf to the Infinity towers, but I think the Infinity 360 would win for Home Theater due to driver size.

Top Middle speakers are the recommended setting/location with a 5.1.2 configuration.

Note also, that the surrounds in a 5.1 setup are "side" surrounds regardless of where you physically place them and should be connected to the "SURROUND" speaker posts, not the "SURROUND BACK" speaker posts.

For a better location of the sub, refer to post 3 item 10(f) - Subwoofer Location.
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post #11352 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 03:13 AM
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Right, I actually have a 7.1 setup right now and I'm converting to 5.1.2 by using some high wall mounts near ceiling I got from Amazon.

Speakers will be angled down from the wall where the ceiling meets the wall. I'm just not sure how far forward the height speakers should be, going by the Dolby diagram it appears the ceiling speakers should be only 1-2 feet in front of my seating position, but I was thinking just short of halfway to the fronts would provide more sound separation.

I could have done 5.1.4 and got an avr-x4400h, but that seemed like overkill for only 12' of length in the room.

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post #11353 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 07:22 AM
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Guys, newbie question, if I get a the X4400-H and only do 5.1.2, what happens to the 2 extra channels of the receiver? Do they just become unassigned and unused?
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post #11354 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
Why use eARC when you have a perfectly fine receiver that is capable of handling all your sources instead of running it stupidly through the tv.

ARC and eARC will continue to have issues.


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When one wishes to use a streaming app in the TV and it's a hi res audio signal, eARC is necessary. I mention one possible future reason for doing this: 8K resolution source material will probably be available first via streaming and external drives (currently the case) and using an internal streamer means that 8K-capable HDMI interconnects are not necessary (and may not be available or working a la 4K initially). Also, our current 4K capable receivers will not be able to pass 8K signals from an 8K streamer (of which there are none today). Any 8K source material will undoubtedly have hi-res audio, and eARC will be needed to pass this to an eARC-capable Receiver. None of this is extant today, but before I plunk down a lot of $ for a receiver, I'd like it to be capable of eARC so that I can, at least, use the internal streamers with hi-res audio.

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post #11355 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Guys, newbie question, if I get a the X4400-H and only do 5.1.2, what happens to the 2 extra channels of the receiver? Do they just become unassigned and unused?
EVERYBODY was a newbie at some point. Yes, there is a setting upon setup where you enter your configuration. If you are sure you will never go past 5.1.2, then save yourself some $$$$ and get a receiver to match. Extra added channels equals extra added $$$$. The 7.2 model 3400H is $300 cheaper right now than the 9.2 4400H. If you can, go to Denon.com and download a copy of the users manual of the one you are considering. It always helps to familiarize yourself with a unit BEFORE it arrives. Good luck. Enjoy the ride.

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post #11356 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 09:58 AM
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Customer Support at Klipsch stated that I needed at least 80% of the 150 required rms for my front speakers (r-820f). This brought be to the X-4400H because it seems to meet that requirement.

I may expand to use the extra 2 channels, but for now I would do 5.1.2.

Is the rule of thumb that a 9 channel receiver can use 7 speakers and extra 2 channels would just be unused?
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post #11357 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 10:24 AM
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Thank you for your replies MRAYB.

1.) Can you confirm that 5.1.2 would use 7 channels of the X4400-H and the 2 left over would be unused and cause no issue?

My concern is if the 2 extra channels would force me to bi-amp or have any adverse affect.
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post #11358 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Thank you for your replies MRAYB.

1.) Can you confirm that 5.1.2 would use 7 channels of the X4400-H and the 2 left over would be unused and cause no issue?

My concern is if the 2 extra channels would force me to bi-amp or have any adverse affect.
Not going to cause an issue. Heck if you want you can only hook up 3(L/C/R). Not going to hurt anything.

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post #11359 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Guys, newbie question, if I get a the X4400-H and only do 5.1.2, what happens to the 2 extra channels of the receiver? Do they just become unassigned and unused?
Correct. Note however that as there is only one power supply, however many speakers are connected (ie. 7 in your case) will have access to the full available power.

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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
My concern is if the 2 extra channels would force me to bi-amp or have any adverse affect.
Note that the "bi-amp" feature on the AVR is not likely to provide any additional benefit, certainly not in providing additional power, because as stated above, there is only one power supply in which the speakers have to draw on. The more speakers connected, the less power available for each speaker.

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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Customer Support at Klipsch stated that I needed at least 80% of the 150 required rms for my front speakers (r-820f). This brought be to the X-4400H because it seems to meet that requirement.
Both the X3400H and the X4400H will provide more than enough power for your speakers. However, keep in mind that the power rating of an AVR (ie. 125W in the case of the X4400H) is into 2 speakers only. In a 5 speaker configuration that number drops to about 80% (or 100W for the X4400H) and with a 7 speaker setup it drops to about 65% (or about 80W for the X4400H).
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post #11360 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
When one wishes to use a streaming app in the TV and it's a hi res audio signal, eARC is necessary. I mention one possible future reason for doing this: 8K resolution source material will probably be available first via streaming and external drives (currently the case) and using an internal streamer means that 8K-capable HDMI interconnects are not necessary (and may not be available or working a la 4K initially). Also, our current 4K capable receivers will not be able to pass 8K signals from an 8K streamer (of which there are none today). Any 8K source material will undoubtedly have hi-res audio, and eARC will be needed to pass this to an eARC-capable Receiver. None of this is extant today, but before I plunk down a lot of $ for a receiver, I'd like it to be capable of eARC so that I can, at least, use the internal streamers with hi-res audio.
The Denon X3400H, X4400H, and X6400H (discussed in this thread) were all firmware updated to support eARC back in October 2018.
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post #11361 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Thank you to you both!

When you say access to the full available power supply, do you mean that the 7 speakers in my case will still only draw the necessary power that they need and nothing extra?
Yes. Why would they draw extra power if it wasn't needed?
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post #11362 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Right, I actually have a 7.1 setup right now and I'm converting to 5.1.2 by using some high wall mounts near ceiling I got from Amazon.

Speakers will be angled down from the wall where the ceiling meets the wall. I'm just not sure how far forward the height speakers should be, going by the Dolby diagram it appears the ceiling speakers should be only 1-2 feet in front of my seating position, but I was thinking just short of halfway to the fronts would provide more sound separation.

I could have done 5.1.4 and got an avr-x4400h, but that seemed like overkill for only 12' of length in the room.
1. The ideal position when only using 2 overhead speakers is directly above and 1-2' forward of the main listening position. Where you decide to place them is of course your choice as it's your room.
2. Adding 2 additional speakers (ie. 5.1.4) would have been more ideal as then you would have forward/backward overhead movement. Not overkill for your room.
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post #11363 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 11:18 AM
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Thank you to you both!
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post #11364 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. The ideal position when only using 2 overhead speakers is directly above and 1-2' forward of the main listening position. Where you decide to place them is of course your choice as it's your room.
2. Adding 2 additional speakers (ie. 5.1.4) would have been more ideal as then you would have forward/backward overhead movement. Not overkill for your room.
Thank you for this answer. I am waiting for Klipsch to have a sale on the PR-500SA speakers. The R-41SA are on special now from Klipsch. Just a matter of time.

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post #11365 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Guys, newbie question, if I get a the X4400-H and only do 5.1.2, what happens to the 2 extra channels of the receiver? Do they just become unassigned and unused?
Pretty much unless in the future you decide to maybe run a second set of front B main bookshelves as a separate 2 channel stereo pair for certain music or expand to a 5.1.4 Atmos setup. I personally like having a little bit more receiver than I might currently need but not everyone feels that way so do what you think works best for you.

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post #11366 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Thank you for your replies MRAYB.

1.) Can you confirm that 5.1.2 would use 7 channels of the X4400-H and the 2 left over would be unused and cause no issue?
Not an issue

Quote:
My concern is if the 2 extra channels would force me to bi-amp or have any adverse affect.
Bi amping through a receiver is neither required nor recommended. You'll be fine.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #11367 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteJR24 View Post
Customer Support at Klipsch stated that I needed at least 80% of the 150 required rms for my front speakers (r-820f). This brought be to the X-4400H because it seems to meet that requirement.

I may expand to use the extra 2 channels, but for now I would do 5.1.2.

Is the rule of thumb that a 9 channel receiver can use 7 speakers and extra 2 channels would just be unused?
Speakers sensitivity is rated using 1single Watt of power so no speaker as sensitive as Klipsch horned tweeters are needs much power at all. Even accounting for their in room non anechoic sensitivity ratings Klipsch speakers have been tested to produce about 90 or so dB using 1 Watt of power at 1 meter. Add 6dB for a stereo pair and boundary gain and you kind of see the picture. for every doubling of distance from the mains that you sit you'll lose about 3 dB or so of output in room.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #11368 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 12:57 PM
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I have the AVR-X3400H. Just for fun I've been trying to confirm that I can get Dolby Atmos to play through my 7.2 system (I've reconfigured my 2 rear surrounds to be Top Middle speakers so I should look like a 5.2.2). I have downloaded some Atmos trailers to USB and played them through my Sony BluRay. They sound great, but the AVR displays shows DDD + DDS. If I play the Youtube trailer from the BluRay YouTube App on the BR, the display shows DDSurround. If I stream YouTube Atmos trailers through my Roku Stick+ (supposed to be Atmos compatible...) the AVR display shows DDSurround and Info shows Dolby surround. I don't have an Atmos DVD.

Looks to me like I can't decode Atmos? Maybe something in my speaker configuration?? What IS playing sounds great, and with rear surround speakers I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 7.1 Surround or 5.1.2 Atmos.

How can I confirm that the AVR is detecting and playing an Atmos sound track? Is there a setup configuration that toggles between Surround and Atmos that I'm missing?

Thanks for any insights.
I actually have some additional info that may be helpful to other newbies to Atmos.

1) YouTube videos, even though labeled Atmos test tracks, are NOT ATMOS! All are 2 channel that can be processed to Dolby Surround but not Atmos.
2) I have Amazon Prime and can stream through my LG TV, my Roku Stick+, and my Firestick 4K. Amazon Prime has 2 Atmos titles.
I can stream Jack Ryan UHD from all, and can get proper Atmos signals from all. Note : Jack Ryan NOT UHD is NOT Atmos!
3) For me, the only Dolby Trailers from Dolby's site that I can get to play are the mp4 versions.

My lesson : not all Atmos trailers actually pass Atmos...
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post #11369 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 01:03 PM
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Great info all!

I just placed my order for the X4400H, I think I will be very happy with this receiver in my 5.1.2 setup.
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post #11370 of 12286 Old 06-09-2019, 01:05 PM
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Ok, so I replaced my Onkyo 656 a few weeks ago with the Denon X2400H, and I noticed that the sub out is sending a hotter (cleaner perhaps?) signal which completely changed the way my sub performed. By that I mean, it hit MUCH harder, and it seems to be playing certain frequencies at a higher output.

Example: It rattled things that have never rattled before, and this is playing the same demo content as before (i.e. Edge of Tomorrow intro). Not that this is bad thing of course , but with some other material in the 20-30Hz range it really had the driver working harder than before.

Now, with that said, I have since been able to get the sub re-calibrated to my satisfaction, so the question in regards to whether or not the Denon is sending a hotter/cleaner signal through the sub outs is mearly out of curiousity. If this is indeed the case, I welcome any and all input on the subject, as I don't recall reading/hearing anything about during my prior research.

Thanks!


As an aside, whenever I made the move to replace the Onkyo, I was kind of in the mindset that it may be more of a lateral move considering the price points at which these two AVR's retail for upon their release. But after getting the Denon up and runnning/calibrated, I was extremely surprised by the increased performance over the Onkyo. The overall surround processing has been the biggest surprise, as it gives off a much bigger soundstage, deeper immersion, and it's added that little sparkle that was missing on the top end of my speakers that wasn't there with the Onkyo (they were more neutral sounding). With music...WOW! I used to have to really crank the sub up to get a decent mix, and the vocals (namely woman's vocals) were really being pushed out front to the point of it being annoying. That's no longer an issue either.

Needless to say, I am a very happy owner of the Denon AVR!


Darrell
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