"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 400 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11971 of 12368 Old 09-07-2019, 07:39 AM
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AVR-X6400H problem

I have a weird problem with my receiver. When playing music from an external source the sound is somewhat brittle, "undefined" and lacking base. When playing the exact same music from an internal source (Spotify internally or USB) the sound gets more base, more "body" and gets a better stereo definition. It isn't a massive difference, but it's as if the speakers are out of phase when playing an external source only. (The speakers are not out of phase - the calibration would have warned if they were).

I have reset the receiver and run calibration, no difference. I have tried to play exactly the same mp3 file through Spotify from different computers connected through analog and digital inputs and Chromecast on HDMI input. In all cases except when playing the internal Spotify player or from a USB in the receiver, the sound gets thin and undefined.

It is not a Spotify thing, even if it is easiest to test with Spotify. I'm a hobby musician that record and mix my music using (good) headphones (connected to my computer). When I play my music through the receiver I expect to hear roughly the same soundstage, but I don't - it just sounds meh. By chance I realized that when playing files internally in the receiver it sounds better, so I export my mp3 files to a USB and insert in the receiver, and *now* I get a soundstage equal to that in my headphones.

What could possibly be the cause of this? Is there any difference in signal handling when playing internal digital sources compared with playing digital optical input that could give this effect?
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post #11972 of 12368 Old 09-07-2019, 11:08 AM
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I had the lipsync pretty close when playing ATMOS movies.
but I found playing a blu ray with PCM needed a different delay to get proper lip sync.
Also seem to require a different timing when you engage the neural X or Dolby upmixer.

Has anyone notice this kind of thing?
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post #11973 of 12368 Old 09-07-2019, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuruGurra View Post
I have a weird problem with my receiver. When playing music from an external source the sound is somewhat brittle, "undefined" and lacking base. When playing the exact same music from an internal source (Spotify internally or USB) the sound gets more base, more "body" and gets a better stereo definition. It isn't a massive difference, but it's as if the speakers are out of phase when playing an external source only. (The speakers are not out of phase - the calibration would have warned if they were).

I have reset the receiver and run calibration, no difference. I have tried to play exactly the same mp3 file through Spotify from different computers connected through analog and digital inputs and Chromecast on HDMI input. In all cases except when playing the internal Spotify player or from a USB in the receiver, the sound gets thin and undefined.

It is not a Spotify thing, even if it is easiest to test with Spotify. I'm a hobby musician that record and mix my music using (good) headphones (connected to my computer). When I play my music through the receiver I expect to hear roughly the same soundstage, but I don't - it just sounds meh. By chance I realized that when playing files internally in the receiver it sounds better, so I export my mp3 files to a USB and insert in the receiver, and *now* I get a soundstage equal to that in my headphones.

What could possibly be the cause of this? Is there any difference in signal handling when playing internal digital sources compared with playing digital optical input that could give this effect?
I think I noticed the same thing. But I think it is not a lack of bass, there is bass, it comes through as super bright, therefore seem tinny.

I just know on my CD player, it is very bright.. I do have a pretty good player and interconnect (RCA)
I do know the internal amp sound is bright as well. When I moved to use pre-outs and external amps, it sounds better. (as in less bright). Not completely remedied.
Most of the time I do have subwoofer on, so with a little hotter sub, I don't notice it as much because there is a good amount of bass to match the treble.

I don't know if that is the "Marantz sound" here.
I don't know why internal playing doesn't, somehow the processing made it so it seemed to have a high freq EQ to it, I do have some files on DLNA I can play thru the receiver, as you have found they sound more present. But.. Chromecast is hardly the definition of nice audio source.


With the bright sound you hear everything, maybe that's the intention.
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post #11974 of 12368 Old 09-08-2019, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GuruGurra View Post
I have a weird problem with my receiver. When playing music from an external source the sound is somewhat brittle, "undefined" and lacking base. When playing the exact same music from an internal source (Spotify internally or USB) the sound gets more base, more "body" and gets a better stereo definition. It isn't a massive difference, but it's as if the speakers are out of phase when playing an external source only. (The speakers are not out of phase - the calibration would have warned if they were).

I have reset the receiver and run calibration, no difference. I have tried to play exactly the same mp3 file through Spotify from different computers connected through analog and digital inputs and Chromecast on HDMI input. In all cases except when playing the internal Spotify player or from a USB in the receiver, the sound gets thin and undefined.

It is not a Spotify thing, even if it is easiest to test with Spotify. I'm a hobby musician that record and mix my music using (good) headphones (connected to my computer). When I play my music through the receiver I expect to hear roughly the same soundstage, but I don't - it just sounds meh. By chance I realized that when playing files internally in the receiver it sounds better, so I export my mp3 files to a USB and insert in the receiver, and *now* I get a soundstage equal to that in my headphones.

What could possibly be the cause of this? Is there any difference in signal handling when playing internal digital sources compared with playing digital optical input that could give this effect?
Review the <RESTORER> setting (p. 176 Owner's manual).
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post #11975 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by GuruGurra View Post
What could possibly be the cause of this? Is there any difference in signal handling when playing internal digital sources compared with playing digital optical input that could give this effect?
At one point -- can't remember if it was right after an update or right after a reset -- I noticed the sound quality was different for different inputs. It turned out that after running Audyssey I had to select each input and separately turn on Audyssey for that input.

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post #11976 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Review the <RESTORER> setting (p. 176 Owner's manual).
My first thought as well.

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX6400H/N...SYqdawoiqw.php
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post #11977 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 04:53 PM
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Hi everyone, I have a Denon 4400H. Using Spotify Connect or Airplay results in songs have these weird high pitched artifacts every couple seconds. Sort of like a high pitched popping noise. This doesnt happen when using spotify from my PS4 or or the built in app on my LG TV. Ive had some other folks come by and see if they can here it and they certainly can. The Denon has a good internet connection. Does anyone know why this would be happening? I dont think I can factory reset the unit as the power button on the unit is broken (I have to use the remote to turn it off). The unit is up to date as far as firmware goes.
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post #11978 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 06:16 PM
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I just got a Marantz SR7013 and have encountered this problem. Unbelievable! I reported it to Marantz, and they said they've never heard of that limit.

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post #11979 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Seriously doubt it, otherwise it would have been updated when the X6400H received the update back in February.
I didn't think the 6400H was getting the IMAX update only the 6500 series? The firmware notes detailed in post #6 doesn't mention IMAX feature being added in the February update.
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post #11980 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 06:50 PM
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Denon 4400H remote

What's the easiest way to control my Denon AV receiver that's inside a cabinet. I have a Harmony 650 but nothing can connect to it inside the cabinet.
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post #11981 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by phaeton16 View Post
What's the easiest way to control my Denon AV receiver that's inside a cabinet. I have a Harmony 650 but nothing can connect to it inside the cabinet.

They make infrared receivers that wire out from the receiver to a spot of your choosing to make your electronics functional outside of a closed area if I’m not mistaken. Otherwise electronic racks in other rooms would be hellish!

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #11982 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 06:59 PM
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What's the easiest way to control my Denon AV receiver that's inside a cabinet. I have a Harmony 650 but nothing can connect to it inside the cabinet.
Do you have any of the IR blasters or mini blasters in the cabinet?


https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/ir-mini-blaster

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post #11983 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Do you have any of the IR blasters or mini blasters in the cabinet?


https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/ir-mini-blaster

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No there's nothing, I use only the Denon receiver a PS4 for streaming and an Xbox one S for 4k movies
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post #11984 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 07:15 PM
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No there's nothing, I use only the Denon receiver a PS4 for streaming and an Xbox one S for 4k movies
You can buy a harmony hub which comes with some IR blasters and turns your phone into a universal remote. It should also work with your 650.

https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/harmony-add-on

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post #11985 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
You can buy a harmony hub which comes with some IR blasters and turns your phone into a universal remote. It should also work with your 650.

https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/harmony-add-on

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I have the Denon app on my ipad but its not always reliable. The app needs some help.
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post #11986 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 07:20 PM
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I have the Denon app on my ipad but its not always reliable. The app needs some help.
I had that Denon app as well for my 6500. It was awful. Bought a harmony hub and works so much better. Controls my receiver, my Epson 6050, my Roku Ultra and my Panasonic ub820.

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post #11987 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 07:22 PM
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I had that Denon app as well for my 6500. It was awful. Bought a harmony hub and works so much better. Controls my receiver, my Epson 6050, my Roku Ultra and my Panasonic ub820.

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Sweet that's sounds what I'm looking for, Thanks everyone for the input
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post #11988 of 12368 Old 09-09-2019, 08:38 PM
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I didn't think the 6400H was getting the IMAX update only the 6500 series? The firmware notes detailed in post #6 doesn't mention IMAX feature being added in the February update.


The 6400H is also absent from all the IMAX Enhanced guides. Unfortunately :-(


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post #11989 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 04:16 PM
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Exclamation Small speaker Channel Level adjustment bug?

Hi

I own a Denon VR-X4400H so I'm not sure if this is a Denon related bug or Audyssey only, but here's what I discovered:

Suppose my channels are set to small speakers and I have a subwoofer. Now I use the options menu (post-auto-calibration) to increase the level of one of the channels. Let's say the center channel.

Now assuming the center crossover was set to 80Hz. This means that the lower end portion of the spectrum is directed to the subwoofer. What happens to this lower end portion when I increase the center channel level by say +6db? Does the AV receiver proportionally increased the center channel's sub-80Hz low-end at the subwoofer channel as well, so the tonal balance is preserved?

According to my tests, it seems that this is not the case for the Denon X4400H. When increasing the center ch level, I notice that I lose part of the lower end, which indicates that the lower end sub-portion remains unaffected. The same goes even when listening to stereo musing using stereo or direct mode. If I lower the levels of the main channels, the lower end (bass) increases, which also indicative of no applied compensation on the subwoofer signal (for the portion of the front channel).

Can anyone else please conduct a similar test and report back? I need to know if this bug is limited only to Denon or other brands? If this is true, then there should be a warning not to change levels post-auto-calibration because it will mess up the spectral balance. Perhaps only my unit if defective?

Thanks
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post #11990 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 04:19 PM
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If you are adjusting the trim after the auto EQ is set, you are deliberately changing the spectral balance. There’s no bug about this.

If you want your center to be louder, you up the trim. No one wants their sub to be louder too when they are specifically trying to make their center louder. That would be a bug.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #11991 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 04:27 PM
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What Russdawg1 said was a good explanation.

And also
Direct mode should bypass bass management so there shouldnt be any sub unless multichannel with an LFE track.
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post #11992 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 04:28 PM
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Grrr I just found out today that Android 10 doesn’t run the Denon 2016 app. Stupid Google Pixel 3 update haha


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tv: Samsung UN75MU800, Receiver: Denon AVR 730H, speakers: 4x M&K S-1B and M&K S85c for center, sub: MKsound V12 HTPC, Samsung UBP-K8500, Rogers Digital PVR, Chromecast Ultra
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post #11993 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 04:32 PM
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Grrr I just found out today that Android 10 doesn’t run the Denon 2016 app. Stupid Google Pixel 3 update haha


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Harmony Hub. Way better except for the money part . LOL.

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post #11994 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 04:34 PM
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Harmony Hub. Way better except for the money part . LOL.

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Lol I have the Harmony 700, I love it, and I was too lazy to reach over to grab the remote, and I had my phone with me, the app keeps crashing. I just needed to move about 5ft to get the remote.


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post #11995 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 04:40 PM
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Lol I have the Harmony 700, I love it, and I was too lazy to reach over to grab the remote, and I had my phone with me, the app keeps crashing. I just needed to move about 5ft to get the remote.


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the Harmony Hub will work with your 700. Turns your phone into a universal remote.

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post #11996 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
If you are adjusting the trim after the auto EQ is set, you are deliberately changing the spectral balance. There’s no bug about this.

If you want your center to be louder, you up the trim. No one wants their sub to be louder too when they are specifically trying to make their center louder. That would be a bug.


I don't mean that if I increase the center channel trimm then the subwoofer level should also increase. I mean only the low end (20Hz to 80Hz) center channel content which is directed to the subwoofer should also increased by the same amount, so the overall tonal balance of the center channel only is preserved. I really don't understand why isn't it so? I use to own a Yamaha receiver and I don't remember it behaving this way.

Another example or manifestation of this bug is when listening to music using Auro-3D. I personally like this mode but I don't like using the center channel for stereo music because it affects channel separation. So I trim the center level down to -12db. This results in a noticeable bass boost because the bass portion of the center channel is still being sent to the subwoofer w/o any attenuation.

I'm not talking about the speaker level settings, I'm talking about the level trim accessible using the options menu, which is intended for temporary tweaking of channel level.

It makes no sense to me to allow the user to trim levels if it messes up the tonal balance of the channel being trimmed.
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post #11997 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 05:27 PM
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Is there a way to disable the center channel speaker for a particular input? for example CD input.
like a phantom mode?

Obviously music directed to the center speaker in multi channel or surround modes sounded not too good.
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post #11998 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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Does the x6400h have front wides? Can it do 9.2.2?
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Does the x6400h have front wides? Can it do 9.2.2?
Denon 6400 has 11 channels of amplification . It does not support front wide channels. Denon's only receiver that supports front wides is the 8500.

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compar...c-x8500h)/usa/

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post #12000 of 12368 Old 09-10-2019, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Denon 6400 has 11 channels of amplification . It does not support front wide channels. Denon's only receiver that supports front wides is the 8500.

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compar...c-x8500h)/usa/

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Well, 6200w does. I believe starting 6300 they drop it for some damn reason. I was hoping they brought it back for 6400. I am trying to do 9.2.4 or 6 with two receivers. It really doesn’t matter since I already have a 6200w. Just need another one
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