"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 410 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12271 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
But if you have any ideas I will appreciate it. It is bearable because it had been a while now I just thought it was coming from the transformer of the external amp, but after hearing it without the 3 prong electronics plugged in I want to try to fix this.
I have on occasion filed the edges off the wide blade of a power plug so it could be reversed in its socket. Even though you prefer to not lift the ground of the power amp and other 3-wire connections permanently, you could still do that to a "cheater adapter" as a further troubleshooting aid.

Having the power turned off to those 3-wire devices does not disconnect any bypass capacitors connected from the power input to ground. If a device adds buzz when plugged in but not turned on I would suspect that the designer made those bypasses too big or one has gotten leaky.

If reversing the plug on a 2-wire device helps you are home free because they are getting no protection from the ground wire anyway.
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post #12272 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
I have on occasion filed the edges off the wide blade of a power plug so it could be reversed in its socket. Even though you prefer to not lift the ground of the power amp and other 3-wire connections permanently, you could still do that to a "cheater adapter" as a further troubleshooting aid.

Having the power turned off to those 3-wire devices does not disconnect any bypass capacitors connected from the power input to ground. If a device adds buzz when plugged in but not turned on I would suspect that the designer made those bypasses too big or one has gotten leaky.

If reversing the plug on a 2-wire device helps you are home free because they are getting no protection from the ground wire anyway.
Can you explain how does reversing the neutral and hot blade possibly make the buzz go away?

Wouldn't it possibly fry something when you flip the plug? I know transformer power supply probably don't care what about switching power supply?
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post #12273 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 02:03 PM
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[quote=PoorSignal;58697312]Can you explain how does reversing the neutral and hot blade possibly make the buzz go away?[QUOTE]
Often the designer, to reduce radio frequency interference, place small capacitors from power line to chassis to bypass the RF to ground. If one of those is too big, or leaky, it can induce ground currents which are finding their way back to "earth" by way of the third pin on other devices.

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Wouldn't it possibly fry something when you flip the plug? I know transformer power supply probably don't care what about switching power supply?
Only in antique radios with "transformerless" designs. In those the chassis was connected one side of the power line, which is why they always had plastic cases and knobs. Switching supplies still have a transformer somewhere in the power supply. The designers (wisely) do not trust the wiring of old buildings -- or some new ones.

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post #12274 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 03:41 PM
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So Dan, do you think the buzzing sound like a ground loop or not? I can only hear it if I put my ear close. Although sometimes I can hear it at the MLP if I pay attention.

I accidentally created the a real ground loop by plugging the projector in the other outlet of the room and that is a much louder hum. When I introduced the 3 prong amp at the AVR's same outlet, that a real loud hum. I bet the humX would work in that situation. But my solution for that was to run an extension cord for the projector.

Would moving to a pre-pro that uses XLR solve this minor buzzing?
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post #12275 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
So Dan, do you think the buzzing sound like a ground loop or not? I can only hear it if I put my ear close. Although sometimes I can hear it at the MLP if I pay attention.



I accidentally created the a real ground loop by plugging the projector in the other outlet of the room and that is a much louder hum. When I introduced the 3 prong amp at the AVR's same outlet, that a real loud hum. I bet the humX would work in that situation. But my solution for that was to run an extension cord for the projector.



Would moving to a pre-pro that uses XLR solve this minor buzzing?
Could be or could be from a combination of a high gain amp with high sensitivity speakers. Try the cheater plug on the 3 pronged external amp as a test. If it goes away then it's a ground loop. You could also check your outlet and see if it's polarity is reversed. Plug testers with an included GFCI tester are the best buy for the money. Greenlee and Klein both sell them at the Depot.

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post #12276 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Could be or could be from a combination of a high gain amp with high sensitivity speakers. Try the cheater plug on the 3 pronged external amp as a test. If it goes away then it's a ground loop. You could also check your outlet and see if it's polarity is reversed. Plug testers with an included GFCI tester are the best buy for the money. Greenlee and Klein both sell them at the Depot.

I think that's easy to check. Just use a voltmeter from ground on the small "slot" should be 120V not the other way around right?

But I also have an GFCI piggyback plug I will try plug it in, if there is a neutral to ground short it will trip the thing.
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post #12277 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
I think that's easy to check. Just use a voltmeter from ground on the small "slot" should be 120V not the other way around right?



But I also have an GFCI piggyback plug I will try plug it in, if there is a neutral to ground short it will trip the thing.
Yup. You can check all the same things a plug tester can check with a meter or probe tester. I still keep a couple of plug testers and simple smaller unpowered diode probe testers along with my full size meters just in case. Plug testers and diode testers are easier for me just to keep in my pants pockets since they're so compact. I found I had ground lifted in my first floor bathroom outlet on accident just testing the newest one I bought last month and had to rewire that one.

Not all electricians wired things totally sober in Texas in the 70's unfortunately. I found my upstairs bathroom outlet grounding was pigtailed with a piece of cut brown lamp cord last year. I could go on and on but I've basically rewired every switch and outlet in my house over the years and more times than I'd like to admit done a better job than the wireman that originally made all the connections( my old man was an electrician in the Navy.) There's a lot of good electrical work behind people's walls but also a lot of crap work unfortunately.

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post #12278 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Yup. You can check all the same things a plug tester can check with a meter or probe tester. I still keep a couple of plug testers and simple smaller unpowered diode probe testers along with my full size meters just in case. Plug testers and diode testers are easier for me just to keep in my pants pockets since they're so compact. I found I had ground lifted in my first floor bathroom outlet on accident just testing the newest one I bought last month and had to rewire that one.

Not all electricians wired things totally sober in Texas in the 70's unfortunately. I found my upstairs bathroom outlet grounding was pigtailed with a piece of cut brown lamp cord last year. I could go on and on but I've basically rewired every switch and outlet in my house over the years and more times than I'd like to admit done a better job than the wireman that originally made all the connections( my old man was an electrician in the Navy.) There's a lot of good electrical work behind people's walls but also a lot of crap work unfortunately.
I think I now see the value of running an unbroken wire straight to the main panel, where the neutral and ground terminate on the same bar.
the circuit I am using, stems from a subpanel already. into your typical room circuit.. in my house it also power some lights in that room. Not as commonly done in homes built more recently.

Over many wirenuts getting broken up to continue the ground etc I can see the voltage potential being changed maybe just enough to cause an issue over sensitive speakers and an amplifer.

Last edited by PoorSignal; 10-17-2019 at 06:19 PM.
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post #12279 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 05:48 PM
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Ugh i can't stand that Tapatalk took away the mute function. I don't need all the notifications

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post #12280 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
I think I now see the value of running an unbroken wire straight to the main panel, where the neutral and ground terminate on the same bar.

the circuit I am using, stems from a subpanel already. into your typical room circuit.. in in my house it also power some lights in that room. Not as commonly done.



Over many wirenuts getting broken up to continue the ground etc I can see the voltage potential being changed maybe just enough to cause an issue over sensitive speakers and an amplifer.
I agree. They're supposed to make every joint as mechanically sound as the wires were when they were unbroken but not all do that. That makes wire nuts just a backup cover not the impetus for the joint itself.

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post #12281 of 12395 Old 10-17-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
Ugh i can't stand that Tapatalk took away the mute function. I don't need all the notifications

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
They took away the picture download setting as well. Least in the free version I use.

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post #12282 of 12395 Old 10-18-2019, 09:22 AM
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Would moving to a pre-pro that uses XLR solve this minor buzzing?
I would hesitate to answer that without knowing which boxes are creating the ground loop.

If you have any analog audio ("RCA") connectors in the signal path, it is also important to make sure their ground shell is making good contact. I sometimes have to rotate mine while they are still plugged in to "polish" the mating surfaces.
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post #12283 of 12395 Old 10-22-2019, 11:11 PM
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Denon x4400H pre-outs: Can I use for any channels?

Are the preouts on the Denon x4400H "always on?" As in, if I chose to just use height 1 with an external power amp, will that work? The context is that I am hearing a little bit of a hissing noise with the default channels, and would like to switch Height 1 - two speakers to an external amp... possible? What amp assign modes, if any do I need to select?
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post #12284 of 12395 Old 10-22-2019, 11:16 PM
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Yes, always on and you only need to specify the externally amplified channel when expanding from 9 to 11 channels using either front L&R or Height 2. Otherwise you just set up the channels you want to run externally and run Audyssey without any amp assign selection for pre put use.

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post #12285 of 12395 Old 10-22-2019, 11:58 PM
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Awesome! So Audyssey will automatically detect the other channels?
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post #12286 of 12395 Old 10-23-2019, 02:01 AM
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Something like this?
Web manual....http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/EU/EN/
PDF manual....https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...vers/avrx4400h
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post #12287 of 12395 Old 10-24-2019, 06:21 AM
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Center/Sub level adjust limit/bug?

Hi

Today I was trying to increase the level of the center channel on my X4400H using the option menu. When The master volume was at -64db I was able to increase the center level w/o any limit up to +12db, but when the master volume was at -20db, the center channel volume adjust reverted to +3db and it did no let me increase it any further, until I lowered the master volume.

I never noticed such behavior before. Is this a known issue with the latest FW or is my X4400H faulty? I did try to disable the volume limit in settings and did a power cycle. The strange behavior remains.


The only thing I haven't tried is a full factory reset.


This strange behavior only happens with the center and subwoofer channels. It does not affect other channels. I noticed that when I switch off the dialog level adjust in settings, the limit is lifted from the center channel. But settings the subwoofer level adjust settings to either on or off/ does not lift this limit from the sub channel level in the options menu.


Anybody noticed this? Is this a bug/fault?

Thanks
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post #12288 of 12395 Old 10-25-2019, 08:32 AM
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Need some help.

This is probably not my receiver but trying all options. Got a new 2019 Nvidia Shield. Had it all set up and working fine with an x1400. Dolby vision worked, etc, etc. Tried to play a movie with mrmc, and it locked up the remote. Had to reboot the shield and when it came but I got snow on the screen.

I can no longer get a picture through the receiver, I get the Nvidia loading screen and then snow. Tried different inputs, different cables, unplugged the receiver, factory reset the Shield in case it was throwing some odd resolution.

Nothing worked, odd thing is it works straight to TV just fine. But no longer working through the Shield, anything you guys recommend?

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post #12289 of 12395 Old 10-25-2019, 09:21 AM
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EDIT# Did a factory reset, still having the same issue, snow/static the screen flashes intermittently from snow to black. Set the Shield to 1080p same thing.

Someone said it has stored a messed up EDID for the device, if this is true anyone know how to fix/flush that? Unplugging for five minutes and doing a factory reset hasn't helped so far.


EDIT#2 Denon thinks that the Shield (since I can see the splash screen) must be sending out a funky resolution that is not compatible, and that setting the resolution when its connected to the tv doesn't matter because it will send out a different res when connected to a new device.

They advise trying the HDMI port up front and seeing what happens. So I guess I'll try that when I get off, he said that EDID is reset every time so there is no memory. Its like attaching a new device each time.

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Last edited by whiteboy714; 10-25-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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post #12290 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
Hi



Today I was trying to increase the level of the center channel on my X4400H using the option menu. When The master volume was at -64db I was able to increase the center level w/o any limit up to +12db, but when the master volume was at -20db, the center channel volume adjust reverted to +3db and it did no let me increase it any further, until I lowered the master volume.



I never noticed such behavior before. Is this a known issue with the latest FW or is my X4400H faulty? I did try to disable the volume limit in settings and did a power cycle. The strange behavior remains.





The only thing I haven't tried is a full factory reset.





This strange behavior only happens with the center and subwoofer channels. It does not affect other channels. I noticed that when I switch off the dialog level adjust in settings, the limit is lifted from the center channel. But settings the subwoofer level adjust settings to either on or off/ does not lift this limit from the sub channel level in the options menu.





Anybody noticed this? Is this a bug/fault?



Thanks
Both the dialogue and subwoofer level adjust settings are linked to the manual level settings when they aren't supposed to be meaning activating either cumulatively adds any boosts done within both the manual test tone settings and the 2 shortcut settings. No idea why when you disable SLA things dont change but it's a headroom issue. You can test this by using Direct mode for a test as it removes the boosts and cuts done by Audyssey which also uses some headroom.

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post #12291 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
EDIT# Did a factory reset, still having the same issue, snow/static the screen flashes intermittently from snow to black. Set the Shield to 1080p same thing.



Someone said it has stored a messed up EDID for the device, if this is true anyone know how to fix/flush that? Unplugging for five minutes and doing a factory reset hasn't helped so far.





EDIT#2 Denon thinks that the Shield (since I can see the splash screen) must be sending out a funky resolution that is not compatible, and that setting the resolution when its connected to the tv doesn't matter because it will send out a different res when connected to a new device.



They advise trying the HDMI port up front and seeing what happens. So I guess I'll try that when I get off, he said that EDID is reset every time so there is no memory. Its like attaching a new device each time.
The front HDMI port is bandwidth limited. Won't do 60HZ 4K. Cant hurt as a test though.

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post #12292 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Both the dialogue and subwoofer level adjust settings are linked to the manual level settings when they aren't supposed to be meaning activating either cumulatively adds any boosts done within both the manual test tone settings and the 2 shortcut settings. No idea why when you disable SLA things dont change but it's a headroom issue. You can test this by using Direct mode for a test as it removes the boosts and cuts done by Audyssey which also uses some headroom.
Thanks. Do you know of this was changed in the 2018 models? I got an offer to upgrade from my X4400H to X4500H for a 500$ extra. Also, can the X4500H show on screen info over Dolby Vision signals? The X4400H cannot.
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post #12293 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
Thanks. Do you know of this was changed in the 2018 models? I got an offer to upgrade from my X4400H to X4500H for a 500$ extra. Also, can the X4500H show on screen info over Dolby Vision signals? The X4400H cannot.
Yes, it has. Review post 1 of the 2018 Denon AVR Owner's thread.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...sts-1-8-a.html
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post #12294 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
The front HDMI port is bandwidth limited. Won't do 60HZ 4K. Cant hurt as a test though.


That's was actually denons idea as well.

But all is well now. I left the receiver unplugged all day. Came home and started each device one by one. Tv>AVR>Shield. Finally got to the home screen of the shield. Hopefully no more issues.

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post #12295 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 02:33 PM
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That's was actually denons idea as well.

But all is well now. I left the receiver unplugged all day. Came home and started each device one by one. Tv>AVR>Shield. Finally got to the home screen of the shield. Hopefully no more issues.
Good deal.

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post #12296 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 10:42 PM
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I need help while running audysse setup sometimes certain channel will play the test tone twice at different volumes. It will start out low then raise the test tone volume up. Is this normal cause it’s not consistent and will I need to buy a new mic.

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post #12297 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by airborn007 View Post
I need help while running audysse setup sometimes certain channel will play the test tone twice at different volumes. It will start out low then raise the test tone volume up. Is this normal cause it’s not consistent and will I need to buy a new mic.
That's a sign of a high noise floor in the room.

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post #12298 of 12395 Old 10-26-2019, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by airborn007 View Post
I need help while running audysse setup sometimes certain channel will play the test tone twice at different volumes. It will start out low then raise the test tone volume up. Is this normal cause it’s not consistent and will I need to buy a new mic.
The answer to this question and many more Audyssey related questions is discussed in the Audyssey FAQ --> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...art-ii.html#b9
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post #12299 of 12395 Old 10-27-2019, 04:29 PM
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That's a sign of a high noise floor in the room.
It’s pretty dead silence and mic is on top of a tripod.

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The answer to this question and many more Audyssey related questions is discussed in the Audyssey FAQ --> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...art-ii.html#b9
Thanks, will read more as google didn’t help.

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post #12300 of 12395 Old 10-29-2019, 03:39 PM
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1. Not mentioned in the Owner manual, so not possible.
2. Cannot confirm eARC as I don't have an eARC capable TV.
Spent 30 minutes on the phone with Denon support. They could not tell me if my X4400H has the eARC update. They advised that their update engine is down and they can't tell me when it will be back up. My firmware version is 5461-9145-8302-0125. Does anyone know is that is current or do I still need an update? Denon cannot tell me. Is there someplace else I can get the update if needed?

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