"OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 422 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12631 of 12656 Old 01-09-2020, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If the issue involves the network card, doing a microprocessor reset isn't going to amount to much. Rather instead, refer to post 5 and do a "Network Reset".
Thanks for the response! I have attempted several "Network Resets" ("Tuner Preset CH +" and "Zone 2 ON/OFF"). I wrongly referred to them as microprocessor resets above. I was also unclear about these attempts. As soon as setting the input to Heos, the front display shows ‘Please Wait . . .” and the video output shows the pinwheel until another source is selected or it’s powered down. Holding Tuner Preset CH + and Zone 2 ON/OFF has no effect on this. At one point I left the unit with the pinwheel on screen for about 30 minutes before restarting. Up to now, I've been unable to fully complete the the network reset sequence; ending with "Complete" on the display.

I have successfully done this resets in the past, by the way.

Any other insights?
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post #12632 of 12656 Old 01-10-2020, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by girottic View Post
Thanks for the response! I have attempted several "Network Resets" ("Tuner Preset CH +" and "Zone 2 ON/OFF"). I wrongly referred to them as microprocessor resets above. I was also unclear about these attempts. As soon as setting the input to Heos, the front display shows ‘Please Wait . . .” and the video output shows the pinwheel until another source is selected or it’s powered down. Holding Tuner Preset CH + and Zone 2 ON/OFF has no effect on this. At one point I left the unit with the pinwheel on screen for about 30 minutes before restarting. Up to now, I've been unable to fully complete the the network reset sequence; ending with "Complete" on the display.

I have successfully done this resets in the past, by the way.

Any other insights?
Then unfortunately it does indeed sound like the network card is dead and will require warranty repair to replace it.
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post #12633 of 12656 Old 01-10-2020, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by girottic View Post
Hi,

The network jack on my X3400 appears to be dead. I’ve done both a microprocessor reset and a factory defaults reset, but no joy.

In short, whenever I try to configure network settings, A pinwheel is displayed and it will persist until I exit settings or cycle power on the unit. The green port lights on the switch the unit is connected to illuminates, but the amber light (activity?) doesn’t light up at all. Of course, nothing network related works on the receiver any longer (Spotify connect, MultiEQ Editor). The vexing part is I can’t even load a configuration file from USB because it indicates that network configuration is required first.

The last network change made was the replacement of a Raspberry Pi that's used to stream to an external DAC. The receiver was also inadvertently blacklisted on the switch while troubleshooting, but this has been corrected.

If there are any other suggestions on how to troubleshoot this further, I’m all ears.

Thanks!
Did you try wireless?
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post #12634 of 12656 Old 01-11-2020, 06:37 AM
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Denon 3400h for Martin Logan 60xt

Hi All

I have a Denon 3400h receiver and looking at upgrading my LCR spears to Motion 60xt and 50xt.

I currently have 5.1.2 setup in a dedicated home theater in my basement, 13 x 18, 8 ft high. Surrounds and Atmos speakers are 8ohms.

Can the receiver handle the power or I have to get an external amp?

Sorry for the repeat question, searched and could not find an answer for my scenario.

Appreciate your help.
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post #12635 of 12656 Old 01-11-2020, 10:18 AM
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How far away do you sit? Do you like to listen at reference levels all night?


Those ML look like 94db sensitivity, I think the x3400 will be plenty. If you don't like the sound you can always add external amps.
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post #12636 of 12656 Old 01-11-2020, 11:23 AM
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I had the Denon 4300 and ran similar sized and sensitive floorstanders, but never ran them at full range. Never liked the results and sound was muddy, and I always used subs with a 80hz crossover.

I've been experimenting with running my ML 60XTs as large now, and I like how they sound with more amplification. It's increased my enjoyment of 2 channel music, as I now run them without a sub, and they sound great at both low and louder listening volumes.

The MLs have really high sensitivity so I think you'll be fine with the Denon. I have around the same size room you do, and I never had issues with clipping or running out of juice with the Denon. Going separates last year just helped me to get that extra clarity, balance, and detail I was hoping for. So try the Denon first, and then go with a 3ch amp in the future if you want the MLs to play closer to full potential, and let the Denon handle all the surround channels.

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post #12637 of 12656 Old 01-11-2020, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
Did you try wireless?
I appreciate the suggestion, but I can't even get into network settings to select wifi. Bought it as "B-Stock" a year and a half ago and it looked like it had a rough life before that. Not interested in putting any more money into it, so I'll hobble on until I spot another deal.
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post #12638 of 12656 Old 01-12-2020, 01:34 PM
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My friend asked me something and got me thinking. I have an X4400H. How many watts per Channel is it really?


I know in most cases the watts are measured when only 2 channels are driven. So in that case the x4400h is about 125 watts per channel.

However the specs in the manual: http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/N...SYbsjxinov.php

Mention the watts that drive the center and surround separately. With that in mind, how many watts per Channel are you getting when you are using 9 channels?
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post #12639 of 12656 Old 01-12-2020, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
My friend asked me something and got me thinking. I have an X4400H. How many watts per Channel is it really?


I know in most cases the watts are measured when only 2 channels are driven. So in that case the x4400h is about 125 watts per channel.

However the specs in the manual: http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/N...SYbsjxinov.php

Mention the watts that drive the center and surround separately. With that in mind, how many watts per Channel are you getting when you are using 9 channels?
When in ALL CH STEREO mode, likely around 50W/CH; however, surround speakers draw very little power when used for other surround modes to include Atmos/Dolby Surround/DTS:X/DTS Neural:X.
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post #12640 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
My friend asked me something and got me thinking. I have an X4400H. How many watts per Channel is it really?

I know in most cases the watts are measured when only 2 channels are driven. So in that case the x4400h is about 125 watts per channel.

However the specs in the manual: http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/N...SYbsjxinov.php

Mention the watts that drive the center and surround separately. With that in mind, how many watts per Channel are you getting when you are using 9 channels?
That depends entirely on the nature of the program.

The maximum CONTINUOUS power is limited by the receiver's power supply. How it gets distributed among the channels depends on which channel needs it for the subject program at that time. Just because one channel needs 100 watts at a given time does not mean that they all do -- ie, your receiver would not need to deliver 900 watts just because you use 9 channels.

The maximum PEAK power includes both the continuous power plus some energy stored in the big power supply filter capacitors, with the same distribution disclaimer as above.
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post #12641 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
When in ALL CH STEREO mode, likely around 50W/CH; however, surround speakers draw very little power when used for other surround modes to include Atmos/Dolby Surround/DTS:X/DTS Neural:X.
Thank you. That helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
That depends entirely on the nature of the program.

The maximum CONTINUOUS power is limited by the receiver's power supply. How it gets distributed among the channels depends on which channel needs it for the subject program at that time. Just because one channel needs 100 watts at a given time does not mean that they all do -- ie, your receiver would not need to deliver 900 watts just because you use 9 channels.

The maximum PEAK power includes both the continuous power plus some energy stored in the big power supply filter capacitors, with the same distribution disclaimer as above.
This also helps and I had never thought of it like this but it makes sense. So it is sharing say 250 watts between 9 channels but all 9 channels don't ever need all those watts at once, especially lesser used channels like surrounds?

Would it not be easier to just say an AVR has a 250 Watt shared amp?

Do these same rules apply to dedicated amps? Or if those say they are 100 watts x 5 are they truly that?
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post #12642 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 10:50 AM
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Help! Denon receive won’t output 4K from any sources

So as my title says, my Denon x1400h isn’t outputting any type of 4K signal to my Vizio P-series Display. Neither my Apple TV4k, Xbox one X, or PS4 Pro shows any sort of video in 4K. But the receiver will output anything less than 4K just fine, such as the Nintendo Switch.

All the devices are using their own high-speed HDMI into their own HDMI-in on the receiver. I’ve tested the devices directly to the tv and video shows perfectly, but whenever they are plugged into the receiver, nothing.

The weird part is that I’m receiving audio from the Apple TV, but no audio from the Xbox one X.

I’ve switched around different hdmi cords that I have into different connections, such as the output to the tv, and other connections into the receiver, but still nothing.

Does anyone have any sort of idea with what might be wrong? I’ve had this set up working flawlessly up until yesterday. All HDR and all 4K settings on the tv are correct, as well on the receiver.

Maybe all the HDMI cords died at once? But with that, they all still work fine when directly into the TV.

Maybe the video processing unit in the receiver is broken and can’t process 4K?
The receiver has a 3 year warranty from July 2018 so I can get it fixed/new one, but hoping it’s some sort of setting or connection that randomly got busted. Thanks for any and all help!!
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post #12643 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Would it not be easier to just say an AVR has a 250 Watt shared amp?
No, think of it like this. Suppose you have a little gas-powered generator that can supply 1000 watts. You could run one 1000W floodlight, or two 500W projectors, or twenty 50W light bulbs. That is, it is the power supply that is shared not the amp.

In the case of your AVR there are two theoretical caps: the maximum that each channel could deliver alone, and the maximum total that the power supply could deliver to all channels requesting power.

Quote:
Do these same rules apply to dedicated amps? Or if those say they are 100 watts x 5 are they truly that?
If each dedicated amp has its own power supply, yes. If two channels of a stereo amp share a power supply, see the "generator" example above.

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post #12644 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 11:45 AM
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If no hardware changed and you didn't change any config options, that's certainly strange... I'm not really sure what to suggest except a factory reset on your receiver... maybe some setting got changed or corrupt? Sorry I don't have anything more 'certain'


This will wipe out all your settings in the receiver


https://factory-reset.com/wiki/AVR-X1400H




https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answe...microprocessor (the list here doesn't show your receiver - I think they wrote this help document the year before your receiver came out - but the procedure should still be the same)
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post #12645 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
No, think of it like this. Suppose you have a little gas-powered generator that can supply 1000 watts. You could run one 1000W floodlight, or two 500W projectors, or twenty 50W light bulbs. That is, it is the power supply that is shared not the amp.

In the case of your AVR there are two theoretical caps: the maximum that each channel could deliver alone, and the maximum total that the power supply could deliver to all channels requesting power.


If each dedicated amp has its own power supply, yes. If two channels of a stereo amp share a power supply, see the "generator" example above.
Hey Dan


Thanks again for the replies, I appreciate it. Your example helped a bit I think. In the case of my AVR, is the max it can do "full tilt" at once would be the 2 main channels at 125 watts? (I do know an AVR never even remotely gets close to using that much per channel. From what I understand, they barely even need a few watts to max out what our hearing could even handle.)

This may be related but do you know how many actual amps are in these AVRs? What leads me to ask is when I run audyssey in my 5.1.4 config, I can hear an audible click in my avr when it switches to the rear heights. But I only hear it at that point. Is that one of the amps engaging?


Regarding Amps... so even on a high end dedicated amp with one power source that claims 100 watts x 3 channels or whatever, even that one is still "sharing" the total wattage?
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post #12646 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 12:52 PM
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Does anyone use the quick select settings much?

I would like to use it to enable/disable Audyssey for example, but what I am not liking at the moment is that quick select also saves the volume level you happen to currently have set when you save the quick select.

Is there any way to use quick select to save certain settings but not others like the volume level. I would prefer the volume stays at the current value when activating a quick select. Seems like a design oversight to me.
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post #12647 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Hey Dan


Thanks again for the replies, I appreciate it. Your example helped a bit I think. In the case of my AVR, is the max it can do "full tilt" at once would be the 2 main channels at 125 watts? (I do know an AVR never even remotely gets close to using that much per channel. From what I understand, they barely even need a few watts to max out what our hearing could even handle.)

This may be related but do you know how many actual amps are in these AVRs? What leads me to ask is when I run audyssey in my 5.1.4 config, I can hear an audible click in my avr when it switches to the rear heights. But I only hear it at that point. Is that one of the amps engaging?


Regarding Amps... so even on a high end dedicated amp with one power source that claims 100 watts x 3 channels or whatever, even that one is still "sharing" the total wattage?
There are several answers to your questions, mostly depending on how much distortion you are willing to tolerate. In the specs you will see numbers ranging from 125W to 235W per channel.

Let's make some (unproven) assumptions. The X4400h is specced at 710 watts consumed power. Assuming about 50 watts for the computing, video, radio, and audio preamp stages; that would leave 660 watts (continuous) for the power amps. 710 watts means the unit would draw nearly 6 amps from a 120 volt power line.

The maximum efficiency of a Class AB power amplifier is about 78% so that computes to 515 watts of available audio power at some undefined level of distortion -- maybe 500 watts in practice.

Then keep in mind that this is a continuous rating (I'll bet it requires a fan!) and would rarely be reached in real-world program material. Full volume police siren in all channels at once, maybe; but you couldn't stand to be in the room.

How that gets split among the amplifiers depends on the program material. I once had an Ampzilla power amp that I cranked up to about 200 watts on brief peaks, but I could not bear to stay in the room with it -- plus I feared for my tweeters!

All of the above relies on several assumptions base on previous experiences, so there is guarantee that lab tests would give the same answers.
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post #12648 of 12656 Old 01-13-2020, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflatness View Post
So as my title says, my Denon x1400h isn’t outputting any type of 4K signal to my Vizio P-series Display. Neither my Apple TV4k, Xbox one X, or PS4 Pro shows any sort of video in 4K. But the receiver will output anything less than 4K just fine, such as the Nintendo Switch.

All the devices are using their own high-speed HDMI into their own HDMI-in on the receiver. I’ve tested the devices directly to the tv and video shows perfectly, but whenever they are plugged into the receiver, nothing.

The weird part is that I’m receiving audio from the Apple TV, but no audio from the Xbox one X.

I’ve switched around different hdmi cords that I have into different connections, such as the output to the tv, and other connections into the receiver, but still nothing.

Does anyone have any sort of idea with what might be wrong? I’ve had this set up working flawlessly up until yesterday. All HDR and all 4K settings on the tv are correct, as well on the receiver.

Maybe all the HDMI cords died at once? But with that, they all still work fine when directly into the TV.

Maybe the video processing unit in the receiver is broken and can’t process 4K?
The receiver has a 3 year warranty from July 2018 so I can get it fixed/new one, but hoping it’s some sort of setting or connection that randomly got busted. Thanks for any and all help!!
If you are confident that all your cables are CERTIFIED as high speed meeting the required 4K specs (yes, its important...) then look to your AVR 4K Signal Format setting...I have the 2400 and per my manual that setting should be "Enhanced". By default the value is Standard.

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post #12649 of 12656 Old 01-14-2020, 10:17 AM
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Are Audio Delay settings saved separately per input on the X3400h? It seems I inexplicably have more delay on my Panasonic UB820 UHD player that the regular lipsync on setting isn't able to clear up. At least when I was watching Westworld yesterday it seemed kind of off sync. Not sure why I'd see that only that input, though I'll check some more discs first and see if it's maybe just the Westworld disc being odd (or maybe me just seeing things).

Does anyone know if the Spears & Munsil disc has an audio sync test that plays in HDR10 and/or Dolby Vision? I'd like to have a video to test audio sync in both HDR10 and Dolby Vision through my chain (X3400h and C9).
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post #12650 of 12656 Old 01-14-2020, 11:55 AM
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center content moving to left surround or left rear

Hi all, I was in my basement (see signature for equipment including Denon 3400H AVR) on the weekend watching an .mkv version of Joker on a win10 PC using plex. At one point somehow all the center speaker content was coming out of the left surround speaker. so I pressed pause on the movie and unpaused it, and it corrected itself. has anyone experienced this? Why does that happen? I think it happened to me once before.

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post #12651 of 12656 Old 01-14-2020, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teiresias View Post
Are Audio Delay settings saved separately per input on the X3400h? It seems I inexplicably have more delay on my Panasonic UB820 UHD player that the regular lipsync on setting isn't able to clear up. At least when I was watching Westworld yesterday it seemed kind of off sync. Not sure why I'd see that only that input, though I'll check some more discs first and see if it's maybe just the Westworld disc being odd (or maybe me just seeing things).

Does anyone know if the Spears & Munsil disc has an audio sync test that plays in HDR10 and/or Dolby Vision? I'd like to have a video to test audio sync in both HDR10 and Dolby Vision through my chain (X3400h and C9).
1. Yes, as noted on p. 149 Owner's manual.
2. The new UHD Benchmark disc (http://spearsandmunsil.com/) features HDR10 and Dolby Vision for video testing, but not sure what is passed with the A/V sync test.
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post #12652 of 12656 Old 01-14-2020, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Does anyone use the quick select settings much?



I would like to use it to enable/disable Audyssey for example, but what I am not liking at the moment is that quick select also saves the volume level you happen to currently have set when you save the quick select.



Is there any way to use quick select to save certain settings but not others like the volume level. I would prefer the volume stays at the current value when activating a quick select. Seems like a design oversight to me.
Not really. I just set a moderate level for all of quick selects and bump up or down afterwards. You can disable Audyssey a multitude of ways. Use the Direct setting under the pure button or use bypass L&R mains in the MultEQ setting. I never disable Audyssey though if I'm happy with how I set it up initially.

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post #12653 of 12656 Old 01-14-2020, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. Yes, as noted on p. 149 Owner's manual.
2. The new UHD Benchmark disc (http://spearsandmunsil.com/) features HDR10 and Dolby Vision for video testing, but not sure what is passed with the A/V sync test.
Thanks. I actually realized the UB820 itself lets you set an audio delay, so I'm doing it through that at the moment. I need to try some other discs and some HDR10-only discs to see if the delay is caused by increased processing for DV in the C9.
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post #12654 of 12656 Old 01-16-2020, 10:55 AM
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Hi all,

Please forgive me... I've read and searched, but am still a bit confused if what I hope will work, will actually work out

I have a x1400h model and primarily use to it drive a 2.2 music setup (L/R bookshelves, and two SVS subs. I love the Spotify Connect quality on the x1400h and ease of use; it's the only source I've been using for music.

I scored a nice deal on a Denon POA 2200 power amp. I'm hoping I can use the x1400h's 'Zone2' pre-outs to drive my bookshleves, all while still utilizing the subwoofer pre-outs and Spotify Connect. I don't care about running other music sources at this time.

Am I good to go? Or am I hosed until I obtained a x3400h / x3500h / x3600h model with 'Main Zone' pre outs?

Thank you!
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post #12655 of 12656 Old 01-16-2020, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RiGoR View Post
Hi all,

Please forgive me... I've read and searched, but am still a bit confused if what I hope will work, will actually work out

I have a x1400h model and primarily use to it drive a 2.2 music setup (L/R bookshelves, and two SVS subs. I love the Spotify Connect quality on the x1400h and ease of use; it's the only source I've been using for music.

I scored a nice deal on a Denon POA 2200 power amp. I'm hoping I can use the x1400h's 'Zone2' pre-outs to drive my bookshleves, all while still utilizing the subwoofer pre-outs and Spotify Connect. I don't care about running other music sources at this time.

Am I good to go? Or am I hosed until I obtained a x3400h / x3500h / x3600h model with 'Main Zone' pre outs?

Thank you!
Zone 2 is only stereo 2.0 (ie. no sub) unless you connect to a sub with speaker level inputs/outputs. The X3000 series is the lowest model with main zone pre-outs which would be required to take advantage of the main zone subs. You may instead want to consider purchasing a Marantz NR1509/NR1510 which feature Front L/R pre-outs.
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post #12656 of 12656 Old 01-16-2020, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Zone 2 is only stereo 2.0 (ie. no sub) unless you connect to a sub with speaker level inputs/outputs. The X3000 series is the lowest model with main zone pre-outs which would be required to take advantage of the main zone subs. You may instead want to consider purchasing a Marantz NR1509/NR1510 which feature Front L/R pre-outs.
Thanks for this confirmation, JD.

I had the feeling yesterday that I moved too quickly after reading the x1400h pre-outs limitations. I've been wanting to obtain an x3400h to try the XT32 version of Audyssey, plus the Sub EQ HT since I have two subs. Hopefully I can find a nice pre-owned one soon. I'll look into the Marantz models you've listed as well to familarize myself better. My new power amp will have to wait for now... dang!
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