MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 105 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3121 of 4970 Old 12-07-2018, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
I would first run the in-avr calibration and see if it comes up with the same levels. Something seems wrong here if your doing things correctly.


I did and the results are quite similar. Sub level calibration want’s to increase the level of both subs by around 10db. In REW measurements I see a big dip around 80hz- would this be the cause?
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post #3122 of 4970 Old 12-07-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by timosilakka View Post
I did and the results are quite similar. Sub level calibration want’s to increase the level of both subs by around 10db. In REW measurements I see a big dip around 80hz- would this be the cause?
Could be, if the rooms modes are causing a bit suckout there at the listening position it could cause problems. You may have to experiment with subwoofer and/or speaker position. Have you tried changing the woofers phase?

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post #3123 of 4970 Old 12-07-2018, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
Could be, if the rooms modes are causing a bit suckout there at the listening position it could cause problems. You may have to experiment with subwoofer and/or speaker position. Have you tried changing the woofers phase?

I did try the phase during Audyssey sub level calibration. Only tried to switch from 0 to -90 though. When I had only 1 sub previously then -90 was the best phase. During the level calibration both sub levels measure around 62db and I need to turn them to max level to get 75db/green light to continue calibration.
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post #3124 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by timosilakka View Post
I did try the phase during Audyssey sub level calibration. Only tried to switch from 0 to -90 though. When I had only 1 sub previously then -90 was the best phase. During the level calibration both sub levels measure around 62db and I need to turn them to max level to get 75db/green light to continue calibration.
Yes, subs need to be able to create 72-78 db with the calibration level?

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post #3125 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
Yes, subs need to be able to create 72-78 db with the calibration level?


They do, when I turn up sub levels. But still I am wondering why Audyssey sets subs -6db and speakers +7db. With YPAO I got all within +-1db.
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post #3126 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 04:00 AM
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I was going to buy a Yahama surround-receiver today because of their "Dialogue Level adjustment", but now I found this app and became very interested. Do you guys think that it would be better to buy a Denon or Marantz and this app, even for a noob like me, or is this app more for experienced audiophiles? Should a noob like me stay away from this more in-depth-equalization and stick with preset equalizations like Yamahas "Dialogue Level Adjustment" and similar things made for the general consumer?

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post #3127 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 04:42 AM
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@NorthernSound
The impact of room equalization can hardly be overstated to improve sound. I use Sonarworks Reference in my music studio and therfore I can compare. And Audyssey XT32 does an excellent job - if the mic works correctly (they are not individually calibrated).

Ppl don't like to hear it, but speaker placement, listening distance and wall/floor/ceiling treatment should be priority #1 , if you have any problems. Having problems understanding dialogue is a warning signal of very bad room acoustics.

But besides that, IMO XT32 additionally offers everything one needs to improve dialogue clarity (for all listening levels - really) - the impact of dynamic EQ, a kind of bass/treble boosting loudness EQ, can be adjusted in four intervals.
And if that still was not enough, there is dynamic compression available. It allows to squash any dynamics from quite aggressive to very aggressive - and can make dialogue stand out even more.

I think the (sub)bass equalization of XT32 is working great and improves dialogue clarity a lot. The EQing works that good, if you have decent acoustics and decent speakers, you will not need any other tools to improve dialogue clarity.
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Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.
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post #3128 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by timosilakka View Post
They do, when I turn up sub levels. But still I am wondering why Audyssey sets subs -6db and speakers +7db. With YPAO I got all within +-1db.
At the beginning of running Audyssey, it will ask you to adjust your subwoofer(s) volume level if it is too loud or not loud enough. Setting each individual loudspeaker separately +/- is normal. You may want to visit the Audyssey (I think it’s called the FAQ Thread) located elsewhere on this Forum.
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post #3129 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 07:07 AM
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post #3130 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
@NorthernSound
The impact of room equalization can hardly be overstated to improve sound. I use Sonarworks Reference in my music studio and therfore I can compare. And Audyssey XT32 does an excellent job - if the mic works correctly (they are not individually calibrated).

Ppl don't like to hear it, but speaker placement, listening distance and wall/floor/ceiling treatment should be priority #1 , if you have any problems. Having problems understanding dialogue is a warning signal of very bad room acoustics.

But besides that, IMO XT32 additionally offers everything one needs to improve dialogue clarity (for all listening levels - really) - the impact of dynamic EQ, a kind of bass/treble boosting loudness EQ, can be adjusted in four intervals.
And if that still was not enough, there is dynamic compression available. It allows to squash any dynamics from quite aggressive to very aggressive - and can make dialogue stand out even more.

I think the (sub)bass equalization of XT32 is working great and improves dialogue clarity a lot. The EQing works that good, if you have decent acoustics and decent speakers, you will not need any other tools to improve dialogue clarity.
Thank you for your reply. Very valuable information for me. I will now read more about wall/floor-treatment and so on.

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post #3131 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by timosilakka View Post

2) the target curve shows roll-off on lower frequencies, why is this? My subs go down to 20hz and I don’t want to have any roll-off down there.

3) ”target sound options” there are only two curves both with roll-off at high frequencies but no way to select ”off”. If I limit the audyssey to 500hz does this bypass these filters?


Haven’t found answers to these yet. Seems a bit strange that the target curve starts lowering bass from around 60hz. Anyone know?
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post #3132 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 08:36 AM
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Haven’t found answers to these yet. Seems a bit strange that the target curve starts lowering bass from around 60hz. Anyone know?
Would like an answer to this as well. My sub is going to hit at least 18hz in the tune it is currently in and probably could go a bit lower (16hz tune). Rolling off is not needed/desired.
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post #3133 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by timosilakka View Post
Haven’t found answers to these yet. Seems a bit strange that the target curve starts lowering bass from around 60hz. Anyone know?
Don't worry. XT32 does not highpass low frequencies. XT32 EQed bass sounds really good (but make sure the measurement is done correctly and not impacted by structure-borne sound).
It just means that boosting very low frequencies to achieve a flat frequency response in a range the speaker has difficulties to reproduce is avoided. The reason is because boosting frequencies a speaker cannot reproduce would create intermodulation distortions and decrease sound quality.
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post #3134 of 4970 Old 12-08-2018, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by timosilakka View Post
Haven’t found answers to these yet. Seems a bit strange that the target curve starts lowering bass from around 60hz. Anyone know?

First be sure your looking at the target curve of the subwoofer. Mainly the sweeps shown dont' combine the main+sub


Yes there is a minor roll off below 30hz, don't know why the authors insist on this except to protect you from yourself.

The HF rolloff, (like midrange correction), was present in the in-avr versions also with no method to change. Most experts (like Harman Int.) recommend a slight top end rolloff for room correction. YMMV

But probably correctable with some tuning with the editor and REW measurement if desired.
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post #3135 of 4970 Old 12-10-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BeyondHD View Post
Hi everybody





I have the Denon X4300H. Recently my AVR has this issue, every time I try to calibrate with Audyssey I’m getting errors on every measurement. For example; the SW matching level always stay below 60db even if I crank up the subs levels up. All my reference Klipsch speakers are marked as small and the crossover settings are always set on 250hz and speakers levels are above +5db. I went to an authorized Denon service center and to solve the issue they did a hard reset and a firmware downgrade. I went back home and the problem persists. I went a second time to the service center, this time they replace the Audyssey microphone, guess what? Same results. Third time the replace the HDMI board, nothing seems to work.



Does anyone has a calibration file with 9ch that can be send to my email? I need to load the file up too test it. This problem is driving me crazy



Regards and thanks for the help


Did you ever find a solution for this one? I have a similar problem and if I bump the subs levels all the way up (can’t even reach 75db according to Audyssey, but not true though) they end up calibrated way too loud...
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post #3136 of 4970 Old 12-12-2018, 12:23 PM
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When measuring the results of Audyessy / Edtior with REW, what Sound Mode do you gents use for playback?
TIA

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post #3137 of 4970 Old 12-12-2018, 04:26 PM
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Dang, Back to square one.
My setup using Bluestacks and a static ip has been solid for quite a while. Not today I wanted to try some new edits and I can't get the darn thing to see the 7703. Window see's it at the ip but Bluestacks won't communicate, can't find it.
Tried every trick I know, GRRRRR

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post #3138 of 4970 Old 12-13-2018, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
When measuring the results of Audyessy / Edtior with REW, what Sound Mode do you gents use for playback?
TIA
hope i understood u correctly , i use Flat, with both Dynamic EQ/Volume Turned Off during the measurement.
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post #3139 of 4970 Old 12-13-2018, 04:59 PM
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hope i understood u correctly , i use Flat, with both Dynamic EQ/Volume Turned Off during the measurement.
Thanks, I was more referring to whether the sound mode playback was set to Stereo, Dolby Surround, DTS-X, Auro? I get confused here.

TIA

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post #3140 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 07:36 AM
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Thanks, I was more referring to whether the sound mode playback was set to Stereo, Dolby Surround, DTS-X, Auro? I get confused here.

TIA
ok. then I don't use any additional sound mode , just straight multichannel 7.1 using Asio4all driver over the HDMI. but sal i don't see why u wanna alter the original sound, unless u are using different connections or trying to achieve something alse?
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post #3141 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 09:12 AM
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ok. then I don't use any additional sound mode , just straight multichannel 7.1 using Asio4all driver over the HDMI. but sal i don't see why u wanna alter the original sound, unless u are using different connections or trying to achieve something alse?
What is "straight multichannel 7.1" ?

So what speakers are then playing when REW does it's FR sweep?
Stereo, or all speakers with one of the codec's you actually listen to?

Audyssey does calibrations for all speakers in your system, what are we then measuring the result of here? I've tried it with a few different codecs and get drastically different results for each?

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post #3142 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 12:52 PM
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I have a 2 questions. Is it regarded as inferior to use the editor app over the on board processing for xt32? Or is it equal, assuming the user will not be making adjustments. (I have the app BTW) I will be relocating the top fronts.

The other question is, if audyssey sets speakers as different DB than others, should I leave them? Or is the point of calibration is to be the same DB at the MLP?

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post #3143 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
What is "straight multichannel 7.1" ?

So what speakers are then playing when REW does it's FR sweep?
Stereo, or all speakers with one of the codec's you actually listen to?

Audyssey does calibrations for all speakers in your system, what are we then measuring the result of here? I've tried it with a few different codecs and get drastically different results for each?
The asio4all driver will output 7.1 channels signal via the HDMI to the AVR. to which your AVR. will read it as multichannel 7.1, and that is all the available channels that u can measure individually with Rew.
u choose which channel will output the FR. sweep prior to measuring that specific channel, there is an option in Rew under Preferences/soundcard section =L/R/C/SUB/SL/SR/SBL/SBR. u just choose which channel u want to measure and then Rew will output the FR. sweep sound only from that channel, there is also an additional option as well if u wish to measure two channel at the same time, then u just choose a second channel under (timing Reference output)

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post #3144 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 02:20 PM
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I have a 2 questions. Is it regarded as inferior to use the editor app over the on board processing for xt32? Or is it equal, assuming the user will not be making adjustments. (I have the app BTW) I will be relocating the top fronts.

The other question is, if audyssey sets speakers as different DB than others, should I leave them? Or is the point of calibration is to be the same DB at the MLP?

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there is a big mixed opinions about the preformance of the App. vs. XT32 onboard, personally I still prefer and use the xt32 onboard because it preform better in my room.
just choose what ever work out best for u.
yes the point of levels matching is that each speakers/channel will output 75-DB. at the MLP.
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post #3145 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by camd5pt0 View Post
I have a 2 questions. Is it regarded as inferior to use the editor app over the on board processing for xt32? Or is it equal, assuming the user will not be making adjustments. (I have the app BTW) I will be relocating the top fronts.

The other question is, if audyssey sets speakers as different DB than others, should I leave them? Or is the point of calibration is to be the same DB at the MLP?

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Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
there is a big mixed opinions about the preformance of the App. vs. XT32 onboard, personally I still prefer and use the xt32 onboard because it preform better in my room.
just choose what ever work out best for u.
yes the point of levels matching is that each speakers/channel will output 75-DB. at the MLP.
Agreed with marco1975. The only real negative with the Editor app is what appears the forced rolloff in the deep bass. Both routes include a few things some may not agree with.
Ultimately one of the reasons I chose my 7703 was the introduction of the new Editor app. It's promise was the ability to custom tune your system and make choices that you couldn't with the on-board correction, bringing it somewhat close to the Dirac Live DRC.

I believe it's sketchy app based communication has put a bad taste in many's mouth. If you can't get it to connect half the time what good is it, and it's these communication issues we hear about most here that have turned folks off. I wish they would just offer a standard PC program that would work 100% reliably.

Bottom line IMHO is the Editor app offers a much preferable variety of options, but fails in it's implementation.
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post #3146 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 03:20 PM
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there is a big mixed opinions about the preformance of the App. vs. XT32 onboard, personally I still prefer and use the xt32 onboard because it preform better in my room.
just choose what ever work out best for u.
yes the point of levels matching is that each speakers/channel will output 75-DB. at the MLP.
It's weird how some people get identical results, while others get widely different results. I've never measured the AVR response, but it sounds good to me either way, so I use the app.
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post #3147 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
The asio4all driver will output 7.1 channels signal via the HDMI to the AVR. to which your AVR. will read it as multichannel 7.1, and that is all the available channels that u can measure individually with Rew.
OK, Thanks, the driver and HDMI connection must be the source of confusion and my problems here. My REW installs on both Linux, or default driver in Windows 10, don't offer anything beyond L, R, or Both in the "Output" options. Connection from the PC is accomplished either USB to my outboard DAC then analog into the 7703, or Optical straight from PC motherboard to the 7703. Bottom line is all I can output to the 7703 from REW is 2 channel.

Will have to give some thinking on how to get a HDMI out from my PC, and-or driver change in Win 10 to reflect you experience.
Thanks again! Sal

Sony XBR75-X940D, Sony UBP-X800M2 UHD-BD, Xfinity X1 Voice DVR, Marantz AV-7703 Pre/Pro w/Auro, (3) Adcom GFA-545II amps, (2) Adcom GFA-535II amps for ATMOS speakers.
HSU Research 5.2 speaker system (4) HB-1 MK2, (1) HC-1 MK2, (2) STF-2,
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post #3148 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 03:35 PM
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Great thank you both!
I think I'll use on board my 4400h.
And match 75 DB, for test tones or should I use voice test tones from my dtsx disc?

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post #3149 of 4970 Old 12-14-2018, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camd5pt0 View Post
Great thank you both!
I think I'll use on board my 4400h.
And match 75 DB, for test tones or should I use voice test tones from my dtsx disc?

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk
The audyssey calibration routine will provide the needed test tones, just follow the instructions. You can't hurt anything and this will be only the first of many times your run thru the calibration while you learn and try different things with time.
It's really all easy peasy.
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Sony XBR75-X940D, Sony UBP-X800M2 UHD-BD, Xfinity X1 Voice DVR, Marantz AV-7703 Pre/Pro w/Auro, (3) Adcom GFA-545II amps, (2) Adcom GFA-535II amps for ATMOS speakers.
HSU Research 5.2 speaker system (4) HB-1 MK2, (1) HC-1 MK2, (2) STF-2,
Klipsch HT500 satellites (4) for ceiling mounted ATMOS playback
DIY Linux desktop w/Strawberry bit perfect media center. Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC
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post #3150 of 4970 Old 12-15-2018, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
OK, Thanks, the driver and HDMI connection must be the source of confusion and my problems here
yes sal, correct!
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