MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 138 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4111 of 4379 Old 05-02-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisda1 View Post
Did my first run yesterday with no major issues. I do have a couple of questions I think I know the answers to:
1) I can opt to not apply room correction to my mains by reducing the "filter frequency range" to 0 - is this correct?
2) If I apply EQ only to the subs by reducing the filter frequency to 0 for all other speakers, I assume that the distance calculations/time alignment is maintained?

Thanks!
1. An easier way not to apply correct to your front mains is by choosing L/R BYPASS as your Audyssey setting in the AVR after calibration. Then it's easy to compare that to having Audyssey correction used on those speakers.
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post #4112 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 02:00 PM
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Confused about something here: if I set the filter frequency range to something lower than the midrange compensation frequency, will the midrange compensation still be applied?

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post #4113 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Confused about something here: if I set the filter frequency range to something lower than the midrange compensation frequency, will the midrange compensation still be applied?
It will still be applied to the flat target curve.
It will not affect the reference target curve, because you told it to not apply correction above a set frequency.
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post #4114 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_at_audyssey View Post
It will still be applied to the flat target curve.
It will not affect the reference target curve, because you told it to not apply correction above a set frequency.
OK, interesting, so to clarify, the FLAT target curve will always get full-range correction even if you adjust the filter frequency range? So the changes in the App only apply to the Reference curve?

What about target curve adjustments? Do they also only apply to Reference whereas Flat is always "flat"?

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post #4115 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
OK, interesting, so to clarify, the FLAT target curve will always get full-range correction even if you adjust the filter frequency range? So the changes in the App only apply to the Reference curve?

What about target curve adjustments? Do they also only apply to Reference whereas Flat is always "flat"?
Everything done in the curve editor and filter frequency range only applies to the reference target curve. Flat is not affected.

Flat is always flat, with exception that if you enable MRC, it will have MRC.
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post #4116 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_at_audyssey View Post
Everything done in the curve editor and filter frequency range only applies to the reference target curve. Flat is not affected.
Interesting, I was not aware of that! Thanks for the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_at_audyssey View Post
Flat is always flat, with exception that if you enable MRC, it will have MRC.
I'm a bit confused by this part -- MRC is enabled by default in the App, but Flat has never used MRC from what I can remember. So are you saying that if you use the App, and leave the MRC at the default "on" setting, then it will also apply to Flat?

I may have to break out my mic and laptop and measure to confirm!

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post #4117 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Interesting, I was not aware of that! Thanks for the info.



I'm a bit confused by this part -- MRC is enabled by default in the App, but Flat has never used MRC from what I can remember. So are you saying that if you use the App, and leave the MRC at the default "on" setting, then it will also apply to Flat?

I may have to break out my mic and laptop and measure to confirm!
Can confirm, MRC occurs in flat when using the app if you have MRC enabled.
In the non-app calibration MRC does not occur in flat and cannot be toggled.

Edit: Visual of Off vs Flat with MRC https://imgur.com/a/ABoe0ci
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Last edited by j_at_audyssey; 05-03-2019 at 04:30 PM.
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post #4118 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 04:47 PM
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Very interesting! Thanks for checking on that, I thought for sure I remembered that MRC wasn't applied to Flat so it surprised me when you mentioned that.

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post #4119 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_at_audyssey View Post
Can confirm, MRC occurs in flat when using the app if you have MRC enabled.
In the non-app calibration MRC does not occur in flat and cannot be toggled.

Edit: Visual of Off vs Flat with MRC https://imgur.com/a/ABoe0ci
Thanks for info and confirmation. Good to know from the source!

Will there be further improvement on the app?

I believe many here would love to have the following implemented:
1. Finer control of the curve editor e.g. input numbers instead of using the fingers to drag
2. Global curve edit that applies change to all speakers

Also is there new development for the Audyssey room correction?
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post #4120 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 06:36 PM
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What's the consensus here pertaining to MRC?

Love or hate?
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post #4121 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaydee6 View Post
What's the consensus here pertaining to MRC?

Love or hate?
I don’t like it.

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post #4122 of 4379 Old 05-03-2019, 07:50 PM
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MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I finally got the graph to capture properly; I have an issue with my laptop making these with 5 dB increments on the vertical axis.



Here is the response I mentioned. The difference at that frequency is not that much, but I am sure there is room for improvement.









I have been playing around tonight with the distance settings, and verified that the distances @Mark Seaton used in 2010 are in fact the best distance settings, according to the REW SPL responses. What I captured tonight is like what you see above.



I have been playing around with the curve editor also, only for the subwoofer channel, to try and get rid of the slight dip (less than 5 dB), but it is only making things worse. Since I have four subs, that could be the complicating factor.



I need to listen to some material to decide if I should stop messing with it, but that dip is driving me nuts! It is a peak with Audyssey off.



Edit: I guess the main consideration here is that Audyssey is calculated based upon the measurements from 8 positions. While those 8 positions were still pretty close to the MLP, I was only measuring at the MLP, which is Audyssey measurement position #1 .

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Last edited by giomania; 05-04-2019 at 06:36 AM.
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post #4123 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_at_audyssey View Post
Everything done in the curve editor and filter frequency range only applies to the reference target curve. Flat is not affected.

Flat is always flat, with exception that if you enable MRC, it will have MRC.

I updated the FAQ with this info. Thanks.

@j_at_audyssey Can you please read over the FAQ in my signature and make sure there are no mistakes?
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post #4124 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_at_audyssey View Post
Everything done in the curve editor and filter frequency range only applies to the reference target curve. Flat is not affected.

Flat is always flat, with exception that if you enable MRC, it will have MRC.
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere...

In the app, there is no Flat or Reference selection, only Roll Off 1 and Roll Off 2.

Are both Roll Off 1 and Roll Off 2 considered Reference, thus both have curve editor and filter frequency range adjustment capabilities?


-
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post #4125 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 08:33 AM
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I have finally got a tablet with a big enough screen to do some editing. Can I import the .ady file I created before on my Nexus 6p. It is on Google Drive but I cannot see an obvious import process into the app on the tablet.
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post #4126 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaydee6 View Post
What's the consensus here pertaining to MRC?

Love or hate?
I use it on my center only.
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post #4127 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere...

In the app, there is no Flat or Reference selection, only Roll Off 1 and Roll Off 2.

Are both Roll Off 1 and Roll Off 2 considered Reference, thus both have curve editor and filter frequency range adjustment capabilities?


-
Yes, this only applies to Reference. The only thing that you can modify for Flat is MRC on or off (as mentioned above)

BTW, you can check the results once you uploaded to the AVR (under settings-speaker-Audissey). While the curve shown on the AVR is not very granular it still give a good idea what is happening (e.g. if you limit the range it just remains unchanged from then onwards)
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post #4128 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaydee6 View Post
Thanks for info and confirmation. Good to know from the source!

Will there be further improvement on the app?

I believe many here would love to have the following implemented:
1. Finer control of the curve editor e.g. input numbers instead of using the fingers to drag
2. Global curve edit that applies change to all speakers

Also is there new development for the Audyssey room correction?
I know this is a stretch, but if we're wishing...
Audyssey can capture the frequency scans. The App shows before EQ, and the prediction for what the EQ'd curve would look like. I'd love to be able to run the App after the EQ has been applied and see if it matches the prediction. I'm too stupid and lazy to learn REW, and it looks like it should be simple to incorporate an "After Scan" somehow.
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post #4129 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 01:15 PM
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Since MRC is being brought up...

The fletcher munson curves on equal loudness the ear hears at various freq ...


ie. to hear “flat” , same spl at various freq, you really don’t want text book “flat” on chart, rather if by psychoacoustics your ear / brain hear like above .. then MRC enables that right?
MRC off


Toggle it on


MRC on



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post #4130 of 4379 Old 05-04-2019, 02:14 PM
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I'm not following you Mike. What does MRC have to do with loudness compensation?

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post #4131 of 4379 Old 05-05-2019, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I'm not following you Mike. What does MRC have to do with loudness compensation?


I’ll ask my thoughts to Dr Toole is his thread . This thread is not appropriate.


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post #4132 of 4379 Old 05-05-2019, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico66 View Post
Yes, this only applies to Reference. The only thing that you can modify for Flat is MRC on or off (as mentioned above)

BTW, you can check the results once you uploaded to the AVR (under settings-speaker-Audissey). While the curve shown on the AVR is not very granular it still give a good idea what is happening (e.g. if you limit the range it just remains unchanged from then onwards)
I'm still not 100% clear on this and will need to check the settings in my AVP...but I guess the app always sends a Reference calibration file to the AVR/AVP, since there is no Flat selection in the app. Basically, that would mean that the app can't create correction filters in a Flat context because there is no way to select Flat in the app.

Make sense or am I missing something?


-

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post #4133 of 4379 Old 05-05-2019, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
I'm still not 100% clear on this and will need to check the settings in my AVP...but I guess the app always sends a Reference calibration file to the AVR/AVP, since there is no Flat selection in the app. Basically, that would mean that the app can't create correction filters in a Flat context because there is no way to select Flat in the app.

Make sense or am I missing something?


-
I think it all gets sent to the AVR where you make the choice.
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post #4134 of 4379 Old 05-06-2019, 05:55 AM
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Correct. The app sends both the reference curve with your tweaks and the flat curve (no tweaks except MRC on or off) to the AVR. You can choose reference, L/R bypass, flat or off in the AVR: Setup / Audio / Audyssey / MultiEQ XT32.

You can override distance, crossover, etc. also in the AVR, but note that if you re-send the curve from the app, those setting will revert to what you have in the app curve that you are sending.
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post #4135 of 4379 Old 05-06-2019, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaydee6 View Post
Thanks for info and confirmation. Good to know from the source!

Will there be further improvement on the app?

I believe many here would love to have the following implemented:
1. Finer control of the curve editor e.g. input numbers instead of using the fingers to drag
2. Global curve edit that applies change to all speakers

Also is there new development for the Audyssey room correction?
Yes, Denon continues to work on the app.
Yes, there is new development for room correction, nothing that can be announced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post
I updated the FAQ with this info. Thanks.

@j_at_audyssey Can you please read over the FAQ in my signature and make sure there are no mistakes?
Number 5, the answer is no for the reference curve. If the target curve is not applied in the 2kHz region, there is no dip in that region.
Number 11, it's fixed in the current app, if your sub or speaker goes to 20 Hz, it will be flat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere...

In the app, there is no Flat or Reference selection, only Roll Off 1 and Roll Off 2.

Are both Roll Off 1 and Roll Off 2 considered Reference, thus both have curve editor and filter frequency range adjustment capabilities?


-
Yes, both are for the reference setting in the receiver. It's an optional feature if you need more high frequency reduction in your room.
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post #4136 of 4379 Old 05-06-2019, 11:20 AM
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Hello first time using the mutlEq app on my Marrantz av7704 using blustacks on asus pc , everything went fine no hiccups , but I no longer have the option to use flat on my Marrantz 7704 only the reference setting and L/R bypass will out put sound . is this to be expected when using the app? . also the only thing I changed in the app was MRC set to off on all speakers before sending to marrantz , O and roll off curve 1
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post #4137 of 4379 Old 05-06-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingeye View Post
Hello first time using the mutlEq app on my Marrantz av7704 using blustacks on asus pc , everything went fine no hiccups , but I no longer have the option to use flat on my Marrantz 7704 only the reference setting and L/R bypass will out put sound . is this to be expected when using the app? . also the only thing I changed in the app was MRC set to off on all speakers before sending to marrantz , O and roll off curve 1
Try sending again to the AVR. I've had a few occasions as well, when Flat "didn't make it". Resending typically fixed that for me and Flat was available afterwards.
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post #4138 of 4379 Old 05-06-2019, 01:31 PM
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Did my first run with the app. Need to learn how things work. I turned mrc off. What does leaving it on actually do? Here's a photo

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post #4139 of 4379 Old 05-06-2019, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_Barros View Post
Did my first run with the app. Need to learn how things work. I turned mrc off. What does leaving it on actually do?
MRC (midrange compensation) creates a small dip centered at 2kHz to help with directivity issues around the typical woofer/tweeter crossover point. For example, look at the right side graph of this image and notice the dip whereas it's flat on your graph:



You can also see in the graph that J from Audyssey posted above:



Your speakers appear to have a pretty smooth response from the "before" graph so you might want to experiment with cutting off the EQ correction above 500Hz. Put on some 2ch music and compare the "Reference" curve to "Bypass L/R" (which will EQ the sub but not the FR/FL speakers) and decide if you think the speakers sound better with or without Audyssey. If you think they sound better in "Bypass" mode, then limit EQ to 500Hz and resend the file.
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post #4140 of 4379 Old 05-06-2019, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
MRC (midrange compensation) creates a small dip centered at 2kHz to help with directivity issues around the typical woofer/tweeter crossover point. For example, look at the right side graph of this image and notice the dip whereas it's flat on your graph:







You can also see in the graph that J from Audyssey posted above:







Your speakers appear to have a pretty smooth response from the "before" graph so you might want to experiment with cutting off the EQ correction above 500Hz. Put on some 2ch music and compare the "Reference" curve to "Bypass L/R" (which will EQ the sub but not the FR/FL speakers) and decide if you think the speakers sound better with or without Audyssey. If you think they sound better in "Bypass" mode, then limit EQ to 500Hz and resend the file.
Ok. Not sure hope to do any of that. I haven't had much time to mess around with that. Hopefully sometime this week

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