MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 147 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4381 of 4650 Old 07-25-2019, 02:29 PM
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I ran my first pass using the app. It ran perfectly and got it sent to the SR 6012. Only took several seconds to send. I assume I can use this original run and make further adjustments and re-save as a new profile which I could also send to the AVR. Is that right?

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post #4382 of 4650 Old 07-25-2019, 02:51 PM
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^^

Yes, that's right.

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post #4383 of 4650 Old 07-25-2019, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
If I use the app to limit the correction frequency (300hz), it doesn't matter then what I do with MRC or Target Rolloff 1 or 2, right?

But I can then just engage CinemaEQ which will still work to lower high end?
Yes, the MRC or high frequency roll off is irrelevant if the EQ isn't correcting that high.

However be aware that CinemaEQ only operates on the LCR speakers, I actually found this out recently doing measurements a few weeks ago when I made some changes in my setup. I decided to measure the impact of Cinema EQ and was measuring different speakers and discovered it doesn't do anything to surrounds / overheads. This makes sense though since the original derivation of this concept is for overly bright screen channels when a movie track is translated to an HT environment without compensation (vs. a commercial environment where they'd have some more high freq attenuation due do distance and being behind a screen) and surround channels were limited bandwidth and diffuse. Unfortunately it's not clearly documented.

Denon's verbiage, CinemaEQ is "designed to remove excessive high frequency information from movie soundtracks optimized for theatrical presentation.... to compensate for the fact that many film soundtracks mixed for theatrical conditions sound very bright when played in a home environment".

Here's a measurement so you can see what CinemaEQ does to the LCR, starts attenuating all the way down to 1kHz, down about 1.5dB at 2kHz, about 3dB at 6kHz, and then by 8-10kHz and above it's down about 4dB.

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post #4384 of 4650 Old 07-25-2019, 04:11 PM
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I’m happy to say I haven’t done any tweaking in a good while. Just been enjoying my setup. I initially bought the app so I could limit MultiEQ but full spectrum works best in my room. It sounds natural and balanced and DEQ has improved significantly.

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post #4385 of 4650 Old 07-25-2019, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Yes, the MRC or high frequency roll off is irrelevant if the EQ isn't correcting that high.

However be aware that CinemaEQ only operates on the LCR speakers, I actually found this out recently doing measurements a few weeks ago when I made some changes in my setup. I decided to measure the impact of Cinema EQ and was measuring different speakers and discovered it doesn't do anything to surrounds / overheads. This makes sense though since the original derivation of this concept is for overly bright screen channels when a movie track is translated to an HT environment without compensation (vs. a commercial environment where they'd have some more high freq attenuation due do distance and being behind a screen) and surround channels were limited bandwidth and diffuse. Unfortunately it's not clearly documented.

Denon's verbiage, CinemaEQ is "designed to remove excessive high frequency information from movie soundtracks optimized for theatrical presentation.... to compensate for the fact that many film soundtracks mixed for theatrical conditions sound very bright when played in a home environment".

Here's a measurement so you can see what CinemaEQ does to the LCR, starts attenuating all the way down to 1kHz, down about 1.5dB at 2kHz, about 3dB at 6kHz, and then by 8-10kHz and above it's down about 4dB.

Fantastic, exactly what I needed to know.

I've tried various combos, but hard to tell a difference especially with movies. I guess my ears aren't trained enough!

- Full range + Reference + MRC On
- Full range + Reference + MRC Off
- Full range + Flat
- Full range + Flat + CinemaEQ
- Limited to 300hz (Reference)
- Limited to 300hz (Reference + CinemaEQ)

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post #4386 of 4650 Old 07-25-2019, 11:22 PM
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What is the general recommendation on limiting Audyssey equalization to 300 hz vs full range?

I’m about to do my first calibration with the MultEQ app and will like to know what the experienced folks here think is the best approach.


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post #4387 of 4650 Old 07-25-2019, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
Is there a way I can send the calibration I from my iPhone to my iPad so I can take advantage of the larger screen? I have the Audyessy MultEQ app on both devices.

Thanks

Dave-t
Yes, you can do that by invoking the "Send to" option using the Airdrop feature.
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post #4388 of 4650 Old 07-26-2019, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samorist View Post
What is the general recommendation on limiting Audyssey equalization to 300 hz vs full range?

I’m about to do my first calibration with the MultEQ app and will like to know what the experienced folks here think is the best approach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There seems to be no consensus about full-range vs. limited range. But if you're using the app, it's easy to run the calibration and download it to the AVR, then limit the compensation in the app and save the result under another filename on your phone or tablet. Then you can download the limited-range version and compare the results.
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post #4389 of 4650 Old 07-26-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samorist View Post
What is the general recommendation on limiting Audyssey equalization to 300 hz vs full range?

I’m about to do my first calibration with the MultEQ app and will like to know what the experienced folks here think is the best approach.


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There's no consensus. The side that is all for limiting it have very good reasons (there's a lot of literature on Schroeder Frequency and room's transition from being resonant to reflective). The science is sound.

However, the people on that side seem to dismiss or overlook what Audyssey XT32 does or doesn't do at those frequencies. Chris K goes on to explain how XT32 barely touches the high end anyway and is capable of correcting only trouble spots and not trying to correct reflections. It seems like they just dismiss it full stop without really diving in, measuring, or comparing with the older versions prior to XT32.

So I'm just trying it both ways, although it's almost impossible to tell a difference. My room is setup following all the guides in terms of toe in, spacing, subwoofer etc. I do need to get a measurement mic to compare but I might just leave it full range with MRC off and target roll 2, and call it a day.
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post #4390 of 4650 Old 07-26-2019, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samorist View Post
What is the general recommendation on limiting Audyssey equalization to 300 hz vs full range?

I’m about to do my first calibration with the MultEQ app and will like to know what the experienced folks here think is the best approach.


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Your preference I tried both but I've finally let the reference curve with midrange compensation set to off do its thing and can't fault the great sound. Prior to I only limited my mains to 250 to 500hz but find reference not messing with nothing at all up top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
There seems to be no consensus about full-range vs. limited range. But if you're using the app, it's easy to run the calibration and download it to the AVR, then limit the compensation in the app and save the result under another filename on your phone or tablet. Then you can download the limited-range version and compare the results.
Yes indeed really easy to compare and choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
There's no consensus. The side that is all for limiting it have very good reasons (there's a lot of literature on Schroeder Frequency and room's transition from being resonant to reflective). The science is sound.

However, the people on that side seem to dismiss or overlook what Audyssey XT32 does or doesn't do at those frequencies. Chris K goes on to explain how XT32 barely touches the high end anyway and is capable of correcting only trouble spots and not trying to correct reflections. It seems like they just dismiss it full stop without really diving in, measuring, or comparing with the older versions prior to XT32.

So I'm just trying it both ways, although it's almost impossible to tell a difference. My room is setup following all the guides in terms of toe in, spacing, subwoofer etc. I do need to get a measurement mic to compare but I might just leave it full range with MRC off and target roll 2, and call it a day.
Chris K pretty much said it all and after trying both ways almost seems we just needed the choice of turning off midrange compensation using the reference curve
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post #4391 of 4650 Old 07-26-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samorist View Post
What is the general recommendation on limiting Audyssey equalization to 300 hz vs full range?

I’m about to do my first calibration with the MultEQ app and will like to know what the experienced folks here think is the best approach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You have to try for yourself. It really depends on the speakers and more so your room. I have a treated room with acoustic panels and I prefer full range. It sounds more controlled and natural. But I have Klipsch RP’s which have a lot of extension and energy in the top end. I also see DEQ as a must and when I limit MultiEQ higher frequencies are boosted.
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post #4392 of 4650 Old 07-26-2019, 10:26 PM
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So I was able to snag a Denon x1400h for $150, I know it's not XT32 but I spent all my money on the sub and speakers, SVS PB16 Ultra and Ultra bookshelf speakers, so I have to settle on this receiver for now. I haven't had a chance to use the multEQ app yet but I was wondering what settings would you guys recommend, or is it based on user preference pretty much? It's a 2.1 system I'm putting together for our livingroom, no dedicated room ( hopefully one day😬 ) and it's being used for cable, movies, and Xbox oneX. I've used audyssey before but not the app and I just want to be able to optimize my system as much as I possibly can with my lil AVR. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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post #4393 of 4650 Old 07-28-2019, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
So I was able to snag a Denon x1400h for $150, I know it's not XT32 but I spent all my money on the sub and speakers, SVS PB16 Ultra and Ultra bookshelf speakers, so I have to settle on this receiver for now. I haven't had a chance to use the multEQ app yet but I was wondering what settings would you guys recommend, or is it based on user preference pretty much? It's a 2.1 system I'm putting together for our livingroom, no dedicated room ( hopefully one day😬 ) and it's being used for cable, movies, and Xbox oneX. I've used audyssey before but not the app and I just want to be able to optimize my system as much as I possibly can with my lil AVR. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Personally I found leaving Mid range compensation on when paired with SVS ultra speakers sounded much less fatiguing and more natural. Also found that just leaving it full range was fine for the SVS ultra but speakers like my Dynaudio Emits, ALWAYS sounded way better when putting the receiver to L/R bypass mode and I’m not really sure why but yeah that’s my findings.


Also the high frequency roll off target curve 1 versus 2, according to Chris at the Ask Audyssey website, said 1 is for a listening room/space below a certain cubic feet (forgot the exact figure) and 2 was for above a certain cubic feet, with curve 2 being meant for medium to large spaces.... I forget if having an overly bright room is also taken into consideration or not but just search on the ask audyssey website forum and there will be a clear explanation of it from Chris, the expert dude on this MultEQ stuff.


Oh yeah always look at the crossovers it sets for your speakers. Good chance you’ll want to increase it as it just finds the frequency your speakers start to roll off at, as many times due to room gain, it detects a roll off point far lower than what your speakers are rated for.

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post #4394 of 4650 Old 07-28-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by yodog View Post
Personally I found leaving Mid range compensation on when paired with SVS ultra speakers sounded much less fatiguing and more natural. Also found that just leaving it full range was fine for the SVS ultra but speakers like my Dynaudio Emits, ALWAYS sounded way better when putting the receiver to L/R bypass mode and I’m not really sure why but yeah that’s my findings.


Also the high frequency roll off target curve 1 versus 2, according to Chris at the Ask Audyssey website, said 1 is for a listening room/space below a certain cubic feet (forgot the exact figure) and 2 was for above a certain cubic feet, with curve 2 being meant for medium to large spaces.... I forget if having an overly bright room is also taken into consideration or not but just search on the ask audyssey website forum and there will be a clear explanation of it from Chris, the expert dude on this MultEQ stuff.


Oh yeah always look at the crossovers it sets for your speakers. Good chance you’ll want to increase it as it just finds the frequency your speakers start to roll off at, as many times due to room gain, it detects a roll off point far lower than what your speakers are rated for.
2,500 cubic feet is the recommended cutoff between the 2 curves.
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post #4395 of 4650 Old 07-28-2019, 11:19 AM
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Personally I found leaving Mid range compensation on when paired with SVS ultra speakers sounded much less fatiguing and more natural.
Those have a 7" woofer with a 1" dome tweeter on a 180deg waveguide, right?

In that case, they have the problem (midrange mushroom cloud polar response) for which Audyssey implemented this quirk. It may subjectively work for such speakers.

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post #4396 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 04:52 AM
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So I just ran a calibration using multEQ app I'm posting pics of my results, I think there is an issue.. I had no subwoofer sound after the calibration, I went in the avr and changed the crossover to 80hz because the app had set it to 40hz but still no bass?? Then I noticed the graph of the subwoofer and it's just one straight line and it only goes to 250hz mark? What's up with that? Am I doing something wrong when I'm doing the measurements? And can someone please explain to me what my results from the graphs mean?
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post #4397 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
2,500 cubic feet is the recommended cutoff between the 2 curves.
Hi, how is this size measured from? Is it within the current speaker placement boundary x height of ceiling? Or the whole area outside the speaker placement? Example a dining and living room combined but speakers are placed in living room only. Thanks.

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post #4398 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
So I just ran a calibration using multEQ app I'm posting pics of my results, I think there is an issue.. I had no subwoofer sound after the calibration, I went in the avr and changed the crossover to 80hz because the app had set it to 40hz but still no bass?? Then I noticed the graph of the subwoofer and it's just one straight line and it only goes to 250hz mark? What's up with that? Am I doing something wrong when I'm doing the measurements? And can someone please explain to me what my results from the graphs mean?
Did your sub make noise during the calibration?
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post #4399 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by haman View Post
Hi, how is this size measured from? Is it within the current speaker placement boundary x height of ceiling? Or the whole area outside the speaker placement? Example a dining and living room combined but speakers are placed in living room only. Thanks.

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Don't hold me to it but I believe I read from the official Ask Audyssey website/forum page that if you have a connecting room like a living/family room to a kitchen where there is no door or option to close it off then you must count the cubic feet of the connecting room as well.

For room treatment for me this sucked and still sucks because I am still in the process of essentially room treating two rooms instead of one (with the room the speakers are in with more dense treatment of course). This hobby is not cheap!

Do it all or don't do it at all.
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post #4400 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
So I just ran a calibration using multEQ app I'm posting pics of my results, I think there is an issue.. I had no subwoofer sound after the calibration, I went in the avr and changed the crossover to 80hz because the app had set it to 40hz but still no bass?? Then I noticed the graph of the subwoofer and it's just one straight line and it only goes to 250hz mark? What's up with that? Am I doing something wrong when I'm doing the measurements? And can someone please explain to me what my results from the graphs mean?
Looks good to me. What subwoofer(s) and speakers and receiver are you using? Do you have lots of room treatment? Just curious but to me those graphs look quite nice

What kind of subwoofer placement did you implement?

Do it all or don't do it at all.
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post #4401 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haman View Post
Hi, how is this size measured from? Is it within the current speaker placement boundary x height of ceiling? Or the whole area outside the speaker placement? Example a dining and living room combined but speakers are placed in living room only. Thanks.

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Good question, because I've had similar. From what I've been told before, if it is a completely open space with no doors/halls/walls, then you include that. Mine is a total open floor where I can see the family room from my living room too.

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post #4402 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
So I just ran a calibration using multEQ app I'm posting pics of my results, I think there is an issue.. I had no subwoofer sound after the calibration, I went in the avr and changed the crossover to 80hz because the app had set it to 40hz but still no bass?? Then I noticed the graph of the subwoofer and it's just one straight line and it only goes to 250hz mark? What's up with that? Am I doing something wrong when I'm doing the measurements? And can someone please explain to me what my results from the graphs mean?
Did your sub make noise during the calibration?
Yeah it made noise like it did when I would do regular audyssey calibration, but then after I used the multEQ app and uploaded the calibration the bass was nonexistent.. don't know what to do or think at this point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
So I just ran a calibration using multEQ app I'm posting pics of my results, I think there is an issue.. I had no subwoofer sound after the calibration, I went in the avr and changed the crossover to 80hz because the app had set it to 40hz but still no bass?? Then I noticed the graph of the subwoofer and it's just one straight line and it only goes to 250hz mark? What's up with that? Am I doing something wrong when I'm doing the measurements? And can someone please explain to me what my results from the graphs mean?
Looks good to me. What subwoofer(s) and speakers and receiver are you using? Do you have lots of room treatment? Just curious but to me those graphs look quite nice [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

What kind of subwoofer placement did you implement?
My sub is SVS PB16 Ultra, my mains are SVS Ultra bookshelf and a Denon x1400h receiver. I don't have anything special as far as room treatments, just some canvases and pictures hung on the walls😁 and for my sub I've placed it in the corner next to my right main speaker. That subwoofer graph concerns me though.. it's a stright line and only goes to 250hz where as the graphs for my speakers go across the whole screen on the multEQ app.. lol I'm so new at this I think I just need to run more calibrations and see if I get different results 😏
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post #4404 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
My sub is SVS PB16 Ultra, my mains are SVS Ultra bookshelf and a Denon x1400h receiver. I don't have anything special as far as room treatments, just some canvases and pictures hung on the walls😁 and for my sub I've placed it in the corner next to my right main speaker. That subwoofer graph concerns me though.. it's a stright line and only goes to 250hz where as the graphs for my speakers go across the whole screen on the multEQ app.. lol I'm so new at this I think I just need to run more calibrations and see if I get different results 😏
Yeah well that's normal and all i know is if I have a half decent calibration session with decent or better results, the graph for the subwoofer curve in the "adjust curve" and the "adjust multEQ range" sections will be a flat line. If you got crappy calibration results for whatever reason, it will look like a typical curve starting from the bottom left and slope upward like /---- instead of -------

Don't worry about that section just take that with a grain of salt. In order to look at the actual room response of your sub (like the actual one, not the soon to be corrected one), then goto the "adjust multEQ range" section with the pink slider and goto the subwoofer graph part and move it all the way to the left, from 250hz and move it down to 20hz. then get out of that section and click on "room correction results" and then goto the subwoofer graph page and youll see what your calibration results are for your subwoofer. Sorry if this was hard to understand or read but I tried.

Do it all or don't do it at all.
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post #4405 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yodog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
My sub is SVS PB16 Ultra, my mains are SVS Ultra bookshelf and a Denon x1400h receiver. I don't have anything special as far as room treatments, just some canvases and pictures hung on the walls😁 and for my sub I've placed it in the corner next to my right main speaker. That subwoofer graph concerns me though.. it's a stright line and only goes to 250hz where as the graphs for my speakers go across the whole screen on the multEQ app.. lol I'm so new at this I think I just need to run more calibrations and see if I get different results 😏
Yeah well that's normal and all i know is if I have a half decent calibration session with decent or better results, the graph for the subwoofer curve in the "adjust curve" and the "adjust multEQ range" sections will be a flat line. If you got crappy calibration results for whatever reason, it will look like a typical curve starting from the bottom left and slope upward like /---- instead of -------

Don't worry about that section just take that with a grain of salt. In order to look at the actual room response of your sub (like the actual one, not the soon to be corrected one), then goto the "adjust multEQ range" section with the pink slider and goto the subwoofer graph part and move it all the way to the left, from 250hz and move it down to 20hz. then get out of that section and click on "room correction results" and then goto the subwoofer graph page and youll see what your calibration results are for your subwoofer. Sorry if this was hard to understand or read but I tried.
I see I think I'm understanding it a little more now..😁 no need to be sorry, I am so grateful for your advice very much appreciated. So could tjat have been the reason why I was getting no bass response at all? Because I didn't adjust the subwoofer graph? Sorry just want to try and get it optimized as much as I can😁
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post #4406 of 4650 Old 07-29-2019, 10:28 PM
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Can someone please help me understand these graphs? Lol I am such a noob.. the first graph is a befor and after of my sub. Then I went into the MultEQ filter frequency range tab in the app and dragged the slider in the subwoofer section from 250hz all the way to the left down to 20hz. Then I went back to the Room correction results tab in the app to check how the sub graph looks now and to my surprise, it looks identical to the before graph and you can see what I mean in the second graph pic. And the last 2 pics are of my speaker detection results, my question on those is, shouldn't there be a crossover number for the sub? For the speakers it says 40hz but it's left blank for the sub?? I hope I'm making sense in what I'm trying to say, any help is greatly appreciated.
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post #4407 of 4650 Old 07-30-2019, 02:11 AM
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Lol! After looking to the images, all should be good. I suggest to leave the intervention from Audyssey to 250 or max it to 200. Do not limit it to 20hz!
Everyway, your Sw is left to -8db. After you sent the calibration to the Avr, just lift the Sw in manual Audyssey setting to -2 and you should hear your Sw again.
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post #4408 of 4650 Old 07-30-2019, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vn800art View Post
Lol! After looking to the images, all should be good. I suggest to leave the intervention from Audyssey to 250 or max it to 200. Do not limit it to 20hz!
Everyway, your Sw is left to -8db. After you sent the calibration to the Avr, just lift the Sw in manual Audyssey setting to -2 and you should hear your Sw again.
Let us know
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Thank you! I will go back and put the sub to 200hz and bump the sub trim in avr settings, lol thank you for your advice! This MultEQ app is nice but kinda confusing to a noob like me..😬
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post #4409 of 4650 Old 07-30-2019, 02:39 AM
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Also what about the frequency range in MultEQ for my front speakers, it is at full bandwidth should I bring that back down and limit it to 500hz??
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post #4410 of 4650 Old 07-30-2019, 05:04 AM
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What kind or type of graph should be consider as acceptable?

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