MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 165 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4921 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Anyone calibrate to 250Hz? I know 500Hz is popular. I calibrate to 5000Hz (actually 5033 is the closest I can get).
I’ve played around with 300 to 1khz as the limit, currently using 400.
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post #4922 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Hmm, I’m using 5000Hz for all my speakers. I might play around with 250 and 500.
I need to go back and try 250-500HZ for all speakers but this time with an spl meter in hand, the problem I found was what came across as a flat sound on the center overheads and surrounds and less sparkle. I believe a member on this thread said he bumped up the level on a few speakers when limiting correction. This may be true seeing one is removing peaks of who knows how many db at a particular frequency after Audyssey does its thing. Now if one wants to travel further down the rabbit hole , I believe in Kal Rubinson's review of the 8805 he had different limits on surrounds etc.. this is what's great about the app and I no longer ponder over Dirac and the others as its more than I need
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post #4923 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 03:23 PM
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If I limit the frequencies that MultiEQ can affect, does changing the target curve matter? Should it have any effect? I have limited above 350hz, but changing between Reference and Flat definitely seems to have an effect.

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post #4924 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 08:35 PM
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Hi,

I am new to the app. I really appreciate all the fine work that has gone into this thread.

On one of my two systems where I have run the app in "beginner" mode (not many edits on my part) I would like to improve intelligibility from the center channel speaker. Dialog is a bit muffled. What kinds of changes do people generally make to improve vocals?

Also, at one time there was discussion about turning off the 20hz limit on subwoofers. Is that still "a thing" or was the limit removed from the app itself?

Thanks.
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post #4925 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Anyone calibrate to 250Hz? I know 500Hz is popular. I calibrate to 5000Hz (actually 5033 is the closest I can get).


I do know and I prefer it.


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post #4926 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
250hz sounds good but I've settled on 500hz but only for my mains, I go full Audyssey on the rest


I do it for all of them. I can actually hear more detail and it doesn’t sound flat ( no pun intended )


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post #4927 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
I need to go back and try 250-500HZ for all speakers but this time with an spl meter in hand, the problem I found was what came across as a flat sound on the center overheads and surrounds and less sparkle. I believe a member on this thread said he bumped up the level on a few speakers when limiting correction. This may be true seeing one is removing peaks of who knows how many db at a particular frequency after Audyssey does its thing. Now if one wants to travel further down the rabbit hole , I believe in Kal Rubinson's review of the 8805 he had different limits on surrounds etc.. this is what's great about the app and I no longer ponder over Dirac and the others as its more than I need


This App is great. I’m glad Audyssey has now become more flexible. Its quick and easy.


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post #4928 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
If I limit the frequencies that MultiEQ can affect, does changing the target curve matter? Should it have any effect? I have limited above 350hz, but changing between Reference and Flat definitely seems to have an effect.
That's because the App changes (other than MRC setting) do NOT affect Flat, only Reference.

So if you limit EQ to 350Hz in the app, and then switch between Flat and Reference, you are toggling between full range EQ to flat and not-full range EQ to whatever target curve tweaks you made within the passband you are applying filters to.
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post #4929 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 11:26 PM
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This App is great. I’m glad Audyssey has now become more flexible. Its quick and easy.


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You all dialed in?
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post #4930 of 5112 Old 10-13-2019, 11:33 PM
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You all dialed in?


Yes


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post #4931 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 12:47 AM
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Yes


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Glad it was a painless switch, now back to enjoying movies
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post #4932 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 01:04 AM
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Glad it was a painless switch, now back to enjoying movies


Very happy with the marantz glad I bought it. Happy with the switch. Good to be back at the lodge though @Waboman wanders off a bit. At times I hear him screaming at the moon Oppo Oppo Oppo


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post #4933 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ7 View Post
I’ve played around with 300 to 1khz as the limit, currently using 400.
Are you using 400 for all speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Very happy with the marantz glad I bought it. Happy with the switch. Good to be back at the lodge though @Waboman wanders off a bit. At times I hear him screaming at the moon Oppo Oppo Oppo


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Lol.

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post #4934 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Very happy with the marantz glad I bought it. Happy with the switch. Good to be back at the lodge though @Waboman wanders off a bit. At times I hear him screaming at the moon Oppo Oppo Oppo


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Wabo is going AVS international running for lodge seats in multiple threads.

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Are you using 400 for all speakers?



Lol.

We joke about it now till three days of thread derailment later
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Wabo is going AVS international running for lodge seats in multiple threads.







We joke about it now till three days of thread derailment later


lol it’s not the first time


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post #4936 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by meak81 View Post
Thank you for the advice, much appreciated. I'll give it a try and see how it sounds, I wasn't to sure how to interpret the graphs but I think I'm understanding it more lol... noob here..😬



I too have X1400H with Jamo S426. Use only 2 fronts and center speakers. Run calibration a lot of times but sound was not so good, not clear and bass was awful. It was better if i used PURE settings but then bass was very weak or not at all.



I set filter frequency range for all speakers at 30Hz. So basically it does not make any room correction. Now speakers sounds like they should. And i can use DEQ, and bass comes even at low volume.



Imo DRC (digital room correction) makes sense only when using 5 or more speaker. But for 2.0, 3.0, 2.1, 3.1 setups you dont need it. And imo you dont need better AVR with XT32 for your setup. Just try what i did. Your speakers and sub gonna shine without room correction.



For music i use

MuitlEQ XT - Reference
Dynamic EQ - ON
Dynamic Volume - OFF




For movies



MuitlEQ XT - Reference
Dynamic EQ - ONDynamic Volume - Light
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speaker trim levels

Hello,

I noticed my center channel seemed to be a bit louder than my front floor standing Monitor Audio 300's so I dug out the calibrated SPL meter and measured my 5.1 system.

After calibration Audyssey set the volume of my Center, right and left rear surround channels at 75db but it set the volume of my two front floor standing tower speakers at 69db? I thought they should all be the same volume after calibration? Is this intentional because they are larger speakers? Should I manually set the towers to 75db.

Thanks,
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post #4938 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 01:27 PM
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Are you using 400 for all speakers?
Yep, limiting correction to < 400 Hz on all. The thing is, the app makes it so easy that you can do a listening test, tweak and repeat

And I found this document to be very useful:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1YH_e...iletype=msword
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post #4939 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 06:03 PM
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Does DEQ always raise your highs? I have been trying to setup Audyssey to only EQ my sub and have been using Bypass L/R. Everything is great except that when I enable DEQ, which I like for low frequencies, it also bumps the highs. Seems like DEQ cannot be bypassed for LR. Is that so, or there is some other workaround I can do?

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post #4940 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post
Does DEQ always raise your highs? I have been trying to setup Audyssey to only EQ my sub and have been using Bypass L/R. Everything is great except that when I enable DEQ, which I like for low frequencies, it also bumps the highs. Seems like DEQ cannot be bypassed for LR. Is that so, or there is some other workaround I can do?
Yes, Dynamic EQ manipulates the entire frequency spectrum (if you read up on "equal loudness curves" you'll see that our hearing sensitivity doesn't only drop in the bass region, it also drops in the high frequencies). The high frequency boost isn't as pronounced, but it's there:



The MultEQ filter frequency range or target curve has no impact on Dynamic EQ, MultEQ is separate from Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, and LFC.

One option you can look into is adjusting the Reference Level Offset to 10 or even 15 (which will tame down the DEQ boost) and then bump the sub a few dB to compensate.
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post #4941 of 5112 Old 10-14-2019, 11:51 PM
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Yes, Dynamic EQ manipulates the entire frequency spectrum (if you read up on "equal loudness curves" you'll see that our hearing sensitivity doesn't only drop in the bass region, it also drops in the high frequencies).

The MultEQ filter frequency range or target curve has no impact on Dynamic EQ, MultEQ is separate from Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, and LFC.
I see, so no way to avoid that... and it is the technically correct thing DEQ introduces. But how about the argument that EQ should not be applied above transition frequency? Isn't the high boost by DEQ is "breaking" that rule?

Also, what about when listening to content which is not bass heavy or has no bass - e.g. dialogue in a movie, song with no bass verse - then the high frequency will be exaggerated while there is no bass to "mask it" and thus no real need for "equal loudness."

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post #4942 of 5112 Old 10-15-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post
I see, so no way to avoid that... and it is the technically correct thing DEQ introduces. But how about the argument that EQ should not be applied above transition frequency? Isn't the high boost by DEQ is "breaking" that rule?


Broadband tone controls or loudness compensation are useful tools. It’s the idiotic attempt to “correct” the direct sound in the statistical region based on far away measurements full of reflections that is problematic.

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post #4943 of 5112 Old 10-15-2019, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post
I see, so no way to avoid that... and it is the technically correct thing DEQ introduces. But how about the argument that EQ should not be applied above transition frequency? Isn't the high boost by DEQ is "breaking" that rule?
First of all, that's not a "rule" at all and certainly not one that Audyssey would agree with, since they are strong advocates of full-range EQ.

Second, Dynamic EQ isn't "EQ" in the sense that you are talking about. When people talk about the potential harms of EQ'ing above the modal region, they are referring to auto-EQ programs which will misdiagnose the in-room measurement data and try to correct problems that aren't actually problems, and thus make the speaker sound worse, not better.

DEQ however is not "correction", it's just a broad shaping of the tonal curve. Nobody would ever say you're not allowed to use a "Treble" knob to tweak the tonal balance to your tastes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post
Also, what about when listening to content which is not bass heavy or has no bass - e.g. dialogue in a movie, song with no bass verse - then the high frequency will be exaggerated while there is no bass to "mask it" and thus no real need for "equal loudness."
I don't think equal loudness has anything to do with "masking" of the bass, it has to do with the physiology of our ears/brain which causes variable sensitivity depending on the frequency.

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post #4944 of 5112 Old 10-15-2019, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post
But how about the argument that EQ should not be applied above transition frequency? Isn't the high boost by DEQ is "breaking" that rule?
The rule is about trying to EQ peaks & dips in the higher frequencies, not gentle tone control to shape the overall response.
Quote:
Also, what about when listening to content which is not bass heavy or has no bass - e.g. dialogue in a movie, song with no bass verse - then the high frequency will be exaggerated while there is no bass to "mask it" and thus no real need for "equal loudness."
The boost is compensating for our lower sensitivity in the high frequencies, so it will restore what it normally sounds like rather than sounding like exaggerated treble.
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post #4945 of 5112 Old 10-15-2019, 10:13 AM
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batpig and sdurani,

Thanks for the explanation. Now I am more comfortable with letting DEQ mess with my Bypass L/R. I just need to get ised to it as I definitely hear more highs and at first it sounds... different.

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post #4946 of 5112 Old 10-15-2019, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG55 View Post
Hello,

I noticed my center channel seemed to be a bit louder than my front floor standing Monitor Audio 300's so I dug out the calibrated SPL meter and measured my 5.1 system.

After calibration Audyssey set the volume of my Center, right and left rear surround channels at 75db but it set the volume of my two front floor standing tower speakers at 69db? I thought they should all be the same volume after calibration? Is this intentional because they are larger speakers? Should I manually set the towers to 75db.

Thanks,
PG55
I had almost the same issue in my system with Audyssey. It would get the left/right balance wrong by 2 to 5 dB. It was quite obvious listening to it and my sound meter confirmed it. I just bumped the levels of the incorrectly set speakers and all was good. Do keep in mind that you can't use the AVR's built in test tones as it supposedly bypasses Audyssey so the levels may not be accurate. You need to use external test tones to get proper readings with Audyssey.
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post #4947 of 5112 Old 10-15-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf7002 View Post
I had almost the same issue in my system with Audyssey. It would get the left/right balance wrong by 2 to 5 dB. It was quite obvious listening to it and my sound meter confirmed it. I just bumped the levels of the incorrectly set speakers and all was good. Do keep in mind that you can't use the AVR's built in test tones as it supposedly bypasses Audyssey so the levels may not be accurate. You need to use external test tones to get proper readings with Audyssey.
I used the Axiom calibration disc test tones so I should be good. The test tones showed the front left and right to be 69-70 db and the rest of the system at 75db. Audyssey currently has my front left and right set at -3.5 db so if I understand correctly I would simply adjust it manually to about 0 to +2 and it should it should be good to go.
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post #4948 of 5112 Old 10-15-2019, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG55 View Post
I used the Axiom calibration disc test tones so I should be good. The test tones showed the front left and right to be 69-70 db and the rest of the system at 75db. Audyssey currently has my front left and right set at -3.5 db so if I understand correctly I would simply adjust it manually to about 0 to +2 and it should it should be good to go.
make sure you measuring the level with dynamic eq turned off. That boosts the surround levels and may be why they are reading louder. The center should match the front left and right though even with dynamic eq on.
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post #4949 of 5112 Old 10-16-2019, 12:53 AM
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Has anyone found how to solve the Disconnect Problem?

The app recognises my Denon X1500H, but half-way through the first speaker test, it loses connection.
Both the tablet and the Denon are wirelessly connected to my router, and both have a good signal.

Last edited by Nordo; 10-16-2019 at 01:58 AM.
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post #4950 of 5112 Old 10-16-2019, 07:33 AM
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Has anyone found how to solve the Disconnect Problem?

The app recognises my Denon X1500H, but half-way through the first speaker test, it loses connection.
Both the tablet and the Denon are wirelessly connected to my router, and both have a good signal.
Restarting might help. Hold power button for 3 sec when turning on AVR, restart on display will come up.

Personally i would not recommend using Audyssey. DRC makes a mess. Just manually put distances to speakers and adjust levels if needed.

Placing speakers and sub properly is more important.

Fix the room first, then apply any correction via equalization if needed. Fixing the reflections in the room, placing the speakers properly, choosing the best listening position - are all more important than any digital room corrections.
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