MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 184 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2950Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5491 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 10:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
adam2434's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 797
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy2Shoes View Post
Hi What to say thanks to all concerned in the input and advice on this thread, this is my first post as a lot of my questions have been answered through a lot of reading 😁
I have tried many types of configurations on the multi eq editor, With Ratbuddy being a very handy tool. I think we can all agree that Audyssey correction neuters the bass of our speakers along with other things on the high end which like MRC and Roll Offs.
But just focusing on the low and mid bass for now like I said I have tried Ratbuddy to get the accurate curve I want and have used +6db boost similar to this guide which I can't link( first post)

This made a massive difference for me and made me think, All this time I have been trying to get Audyssey to sound like when it is off which is my favorite setting but loose features that come with it.
So my question is why not cut all correction for the front stage LCR, allow the speakers be untouched by Audyssey altogether, having the Subs and surrounds corrected in whatever one wish's to.
In my case 300hz limit surrounds + Atmos and Sub Full Range
The plus side of this is not trying to guess the right curve for the speaker, let the room and speaker placement to this job.
This is setup I have been trying now for the last two weeks, and am very pleased with the results. I Rew and Mini Dsp which I use for better sub correction pre audyssey, And although having correction yields better results on REW on the front stage, my ears tell me and body tell a different story.
Just thought I would put this one out there, as I don't think I have read some-one doing this and be interested on anyone's thoughts on this
Welcome!

I’ve got some theories on this based on my experience and observations. I may be off and this my not apply to everyone, but here goes.

This only applies to folks with large floorstanding L/R speakers that produce solid bass on their own.

The Audyssey “before” L/R plots will often show significant peaks (and dips) in the bass response, like up to +10-15 dB peaks. Let’s assume the “before” plots are fairly accurate in the bass region. Of course, the peaks and dips this will depend on the room, speakers, and distance from walls, etc.

One can get “used” to the sound of the floorstanders running Direct (full range), including the potential bass peaks. This can become the reference for comparison to when Audyssey and bass management are engaged. Also, it is very easy to switch back and forth between Direct and Stereo (with Audyssey and bass management engaged) when listening to 2-channel music. Any differences and perceived deficiencies in bass performance will jump out immediately when switching back and forth, IME.

Assuming Audyssey does a good job flattening sub(s) and L/R bass, even a large sub trim(s) boost, say even +10 dB may still not boost certain bass frequencies up to the levels that the floorstanders produce by themselves. So, in direct back and forth comparison, Stereo with (Audyssey and bass management engaged) may still sound deficient in bass even with large sub trim boosts. It’s like one can’t get to what the floorstanders’ bass sounds like by themselves, no matter what setting changes one makes with Audyssey and bass management engaged.

Folks who run smaller L/R speakers (like bookshelf models) will likely not experience this, because Direct would sound deficient in bass vs. Stereo with Audyssey and bass management engaged.

I guess the other possibility is that Audyssey is not flattening sub(s) and L/R bass very well, and/or there are other issues causing bass deficiencies with Audyssey and bass management engaged that need to be sorted out with REW.

Anyway, just food for thought and discussion – not trying to make any definitive statements.

-
Jimmy2Shoes likes this.

5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
adam2434 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5492 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 11:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
Lonewolf7002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
Haha, you know what I meant - the bug is no longer infecting you (and your sub distance).

So, the bug-free app calibration set your closer sub to 5.3 feet, and you used REW to determine that 5.5 feet was best (very similar numbers). Just curious - what do you mean by "best"? Like best integration with LCR, or best alignment with the farther sub? Or something else?
Both. Best integration with LCR and best alignment with furthest sub. I ran REW this weekend to confirm. I had settled on 5.4 previously. I could go either way between 5.3 and 5.4, so left it at 5.3.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
How many people here using the app stop Audyssey from correcting from a certain point onward? What point is that? 300hz? 500hz?

I have been letting Audyssey correct the full range recently but am open to limiting it and am thinking of starting with 500hz.
I limit Audyssey correction to 500 Hz for my LCR, and full range on the rest of my speakers. REW measurements using 500Hz and 1KHz are exactly the same for me, so I leave it at 500Hz. The idea of limiting correction to below a certain point is to correct for the effects of the room on your sound, which is typically most noticeable below about 300Hz in a normal listening room, without correcting the sound of your speakers as well. Look up Schroeder frequency if you want more details!
galonzo and ScottieBoysName like this.

Samsung KS8000, Denon AVR-X3300W, Xbox One X, Samsung UBD-K8500 4K bluray player, Himedia Q5 Pro android box
Lonewolf7002 is offline  
post #5493 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
IMWhizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked: 341
In the end, my conclusion is that Audyssey does more harm than any good in MY room. After calibrating a dozen of times and repositioning my speakers, the only thing Audyssey does great is measuring the SPL and the distances.

After that a manual tweak with REW was the best thing I ever did. The sound is absolutely breathtaking now. And yes, with a manual calibration I got a flatter subwoofer response than I ever did with Audyssey unfortunately.

Klipsch Reference Premiere: 4 x RP-280's, 1 x RP 450C and dual R-115W's
Marantz 7011 AVR
LG OLED C9
Apple TV 4K
PlayStation Pro
IMWhizzle is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5494 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ScottieBoysName's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,307
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolf7002 View Post
Both. Best integration with LCR and best alignment with furthest sub. I ran REW this weekend to confirm. I had settled on 5.4 previously. I could go either way between 5.3 and 5.4, so left it at 5.3.









I limit Audyssey correction to 500 Hz for my LCR, and full range on the rest of my speakers. REW measurements using 500Hz and 1KHz are exactly the same for me, so I leave it at 500Hz. The idea of limiting correction to below a certain point is to correct for the effects of the room on your sound, which is typically most noticeable below about 300Hz in a normal listening room, without correcting the sound of your speakers as well. Look up Schroeder frequency if you want more details!


Thanks!
Lonewolf7002 likes this.
ScottieBoysName is offline  
post #5495 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 12:47 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
In the end, my conclusion is that Audyssey does more harm than any good in MY room. After calibrating a dozen of times and repositioning my speakers, the only thing Audyssey does great is measuring the SPL and the distances.

After that a manual tweak with REW was the best thing I ever did. The sound is absolutely breathtaking now. And yes, with a manual calibration I got a flatter subwoofer response than I ever did with Audyssey unfortunately.
I have to agree, everything done seems more natural with Audy Off, Bass is a lot more tighter and less bloated, I like the sound of a house curve which is naturally created in my room and speaker position. Audyssey creates the opposite curve in which I like with the intention of using Dynamic EQ to achieve the house curve. That comes with its own problems like bloated bass, boosted surrounds. In the settings I have now there is no difference in Audyssey OFF or ON on the LCR. My thinking was i could use Dynamic Volume at night when needed, but so far I haven't needed to do this.

So to recommend what frequency to Eq to, like 300hz or 500hz, it is probably just as important on what the Eq filter's the curve to, as that is what's going to dictate what your speakers sound like even if it's just 0-300hz

For me if i Equed my Rp600m and Rp504c to 500hz without any adjustments to the curve, the speakers would sound way to bright even for horn speakers, Ratbuddy got me close to where I wanted to go, but zero correction got me all the way
yodog likes this.
Jimmy2Shoes is offline  
post #5496 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 02:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pbz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,905
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1291 Post(s)
Liked: 1035
To each their own. When I hear terms like bloated bass, my first instinct is to ask what version of Audyssey and what subwoofer and speakers do you have. And limiting frequency would still mean EQ in the bass region so I don't understand why you would hear bloat with full range vs limiting. To me Audyssey (XT32) has always done what its intended to do and make the response nice and flat, and from there you have many options. I've never experienced "harm" or any alterations to the speaker sound and signature other than better bass response and tighter imaging.
pbz06 is offline  
post #5497 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 03:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I am not sure about the intent but maybe the originator can clarify that question.

I did tag him in one of my posts in this thread when we are questioning whether different control points for this procedure are optional but he never responded.

Sorry guys, been busy with other things for a while. As the guy quoted in the FAQ let me try to answer some of these recurring questions.


1) The values for the target curve were simply an example, following a somewhat Harman-Curve type shape in the bass region. Yes, feel free to try different variations on that curve to find out what you like best. For example, if you want the sub to be flatter a little longer you can change the 55 Hz point to 65 Hz, etc. If you want to boost a bunch more (like 12 db ), it may sound better to have a more gradual transition back down to zero--instead of going to zero at 160, you could try 180, 200, etc. It's very easy to make a bunch of files with different curves and try them. I'd suggest just worrying about your L&R to make it faster to make a bunch of files and you may want to limit the correction to 500 or 1000 Hz so you can get the most apples to apples comparison with Direct mode (especially music lovers who like how the system sounds in that mode). Once you've found the curve you like, you can measure/fine-tune it and then apply it to the other speakers.



2) Yes, I do recommend applying the same curve to all the speakers except upfiring Atmos (in the bass region--the treble, limiting or not limiting, etc is an entirely separate subject and one where you may want to treat different speaker types differently). It's much easier to simply type in the same values than re-invent the wheel for each speaker. While it may seem silly to be typing in +6 db boost at 20 Hz for a speaker that rolls off at 100 Hz, for example, don't worry about it--Audyssey isn't really going to try and do that and blow your speaker. It'll get the most out of the speaker within its capability and handle the rolloff appropriately. While not a replacement for accurate measurements, the predicted "after curve" does give you a pretty accurate idea of what Audyssey will try to do with that speaker in the bass region, given your target curve and its capabilities. If you try and boost 10 db and see the after curve for a speaker shows it only rising a couple db before rolling off again, well, now you won't be surprised when you measure it.



You're probably going to set the crossover well above the rolloff anyway. So why do it? The goal is to get the speaker close to or on your target curve as soon as it can be made to do so. If you do not and just let Audyssey do the bass "flat," Audyssey will often smooth out the rolloff, making it more gradual which results it it starting even sooner which can cause a bigger mismatch at the crossover. Even if you only get a little hump or flat-ish spot before the speaker rolls off, it'll probably match the sub at the crossover better than if it had a more gradual rolloff starting at a higher frequency.



3) Actual measurements to double check results are highly encouraged. First, regardless of any of the above, checking you get a smooth blend at the crossover point and applying the sub distance tweak as necessary is something that pretty much always has to be done with Audyssey to ensure things are working properly. After that, checking the results of the curve you made above is the only way to really know what you have. I focus these measurements on the LCR and sort of figure what happens with the surrounds/Atmos is going to happen (don't go doing the sub distance tweak to better integrate a surround speaker and mess it up for your LCR). When doing this, ensure you're only measuring a single channel so the sub isn't playing the bass for more than one speaker or it'll obviously measure too high against a single speaker. Measure the speaker set to large, then measure the speaker set to small/crossover at 250 (to get it out of the way) with the speaker unplugged so you're only measuring the curve of the sub. Those two lines should lay on top of each other for a range if you have successfully corrected both the the same curve. You may need to bump the sub up or down a db or two to put the lines on top of each other. That'll give you a good idea of the range of acceptable crossover values that won't change the tonal balance--if you put the crossover at a point they've diverged (or are about to) that will result in a mismatch and change the tonal balance one way or the other.


4) Yes, putting a curve like this on the sub will affect LFE. But you need to look at the big picture. Most typical curves like this will only have the sub down 2-3 db at 100 Hz and maybe 3-4 at 120 (depending upon details, of course). There usually isn't (or shouldn't be) much material in the LFE channel that high anyway. Also, many people lower the low-pass on the LFE anyway for some very good reasons making it pretty much a non-issue. I consider getting things right with the main channels, especially for music, much more important than having the exact perfect tonal balance of some explosion in the LFE...since nobody knows what that's supposed to sound like anyway.


I think that hits most of the most commonly asked questions lately. Let me know if you have any more.
Jon AA is online now  
post #5498 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 03:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
IMWhizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
To each their own. When I hear terms like bloated bass, my first instinct is to ask what version of Audyssey and what subwoofer and speakers do you have. And limiting frequency would still mean EQ in the bass region so I don't understand why you would hear bloat with full range vs limiting. To me Audyssey (XT32) has always done what its intended to do and make the response nice and flat, and from there you have many options. I've never experienced "harm" or any alterations to the speaker sound and signature other than better bass response and tighter imaging.


No rooms are the same, so if you have the possibility to have a semi or fully treated room, than I agree. I also have the XT32, but that doesn’t mean much per de. Audyssey can be a hit or miss, depending on a lot of factors. It’s not a magical tool which can create magic in every room unfortunately. And it’s not a bad thing. It does a terrific job getting the SPL and distances right though.

Klipsch Reference Premiere: 4 x RP-280's, 1 x RP 450C and dual R-115W's
Marantz 7011 AVR
LG OLED C9
Apple TV 4K
PlayStation Pro
IMWhizzle is online now  
post #5499 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 03:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Could you please tell me if i did this correctly, and if you have any suggestion and this picture look good?
Looks good to me. Though as mentioned, I'd recommend trying it with the same curve entered for the surrounds so they'll better mach your fronts (but with a higher crossover, of course--your fronts are good enough you could try using a 60 Hz crossover for music and see if you like that better than the typical 80). Other than that, measuring to verify results would be the next step.
Adamg (Ret-Navy) likes this.
Jon AA is online now  
post #5500 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 03:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
Regarding adding the sub control points, is the intent to create the downward slope to match the upward slope of the L/R bass boost control points?
Yes, exactly. You'll get the best integration at the crossover if the two lines are laying on top of one another before the crossover is applied. The larger the range you can get them to lay on top of one another, the more flexibility you'll have to play with crossover points without changing the tonal balance to see what sounds better.
Adamg (Ret-Navy) likes this.
Jon AA is online now  
post #5501 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 03:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon AA View Post
Looks good to me. Though as mentioned, I'd recommend trying it with the same curve entered for the surrounds so they'll better mach your fronts (but with a higher crossover, of course--your fronts are good enough you could try using a 60 Hz crossover for music and see if you like that better than the typical 80). Other than that, measuring to verify results would be the next step.
Is it correct that you also have to raise the subwoofer volume in the app by 6db when you doing this method?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Toto84 is online now  
post #5502 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 04:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Yes. Entering boost to create the curve just shapes the curve (which I find faster/easier than entering cuts), Audyssey will take that shape and lower it such that in reality it's creating cuts so you end up with the same thing. It lowers the entire curve because you're raising the average level of the curve over the frequency range it looks at to set the level for the sub. You should be able to see this in the after curve predictions. It does not do this (much if at all) on the other channels, because it looks at the average level at a much higher frequency range to set the level and the bass boost applied to them only occurs at the very bottom of the curve. So yes, if you boost the sub 6 db from 20-60 Hz or so, you need to raise the level by that amount to put you in the ballpark. But measuring is the only way to verify. If you don't have measuring equipment, you can check to see you're at least in the ballpark with an SPL meter by downloading some test tones and playing them. In your case you could put the crossover at 60, check the levels at 40 and 80 Hz and if they're dramatically different from the curve predictions that would tell you something's not right.
Jon AA is online now  
post #5503 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 04:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon AA View Post
Yes. Entering boost to create the curve just shapes the curve (which I find faster/easier than entering cuts), Audyssey will take that shape and lower it such that in reality it's creating cuts so you end up with the same thing. It lowers the entire curve because you're raising the average level of the curve over the frequency range it looks at to set the level for the sub. You should be able to see this in the after curve predictions. It does not do this (much if at all) on the other channels, because it looks at the average level at a much higher frequency range to set the level and the bass boost applied to them only occurs at the very bottom of the curve. So yes, if you boost the sub 6 db from 20-60 Hz or so, you need to raise the level by that amount to put you in the ballpark. But measuring is the only way to verify. If you don't have measuring equipment, you can check to see you're at least in the ballpark with an SPL meter by downloading some test tones and playing them. In your case you could put the crossover at 60, check the levels at 40 and 80 Hz and if they're dramatically different from the curve predictions that would tell you something's not right.
Thank you for your very precious help.
I have verified everything with an spl meter and test tone from spears and munsil.
I dont have REW but might get it next month to check.
My front and center are at 80hz crossover
My surround at 100hz and atmos at 150hz.
My sub measure at around 81db with an spl meter, all other speaker at 75db.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Toto84 is online now  
post #5504 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 06:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
D Bone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
In the end, my conclusion is that Audyssey does more harm than any good in MY room. After calibrating a dozen of times and repositioning my speakers, the only thing Audyssey does great is measuring the SPL and the distances.

After that a manual tweak with REW was the best thing I ever did. The sound is absolutely breathtaking now. And yes, with a manual calibration I got a flatter subwoofer response than I ever did with Audyssey unfortunately.
How did you manually adjust the sub channel with your Marantz?
D Bone is offline  
post #5505 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 07:03 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
To each their own. When I hear terms like bloated bass, my first instinct is to ask what version of Audyssey and what subwoofer and speakers do you have. And limiting frequency would still mean EQ in the bass region so I don't understand why you would hear bloat with full range vs limiting. To me Audyssey (XT32) has always done what its intended to do and make the response nice and flat, and from there you have many options. I've never experienced "harm" or any alterations to the speaker sound and signature other than better bass response and tighter imaging.
For sure each to there own and every setup is different with so many variables to consider. I have a Denon 3600 x32 , Dual SVS Sb 2000, RP 600m and RP 504c, Atmos and surrounds "And limiting frequency would still mean EQ in the bass region" My point is not having any EQ at all on the front stage at all. Cause Audyssey flattens the curve to much IMO. This is what Jon AA in recent posts is bringing back to curve using control points. I have delved into this and did like the sound better than the stock curve that Audyssey uses but takes a lot of work trial and error. I probably will return to this when I have more time.
In terms of alternations to speaker sound, in my case Audyssey off always sounded better and my Klipsch speakers don't sound as bright than with Audyssey on full range or limited to 500hz.
So i feel with this method you get the full benefit of Audyssey with EQ for all the remaining speakers and subs in fast manner on the App without too much messing about.
I feel I have gone full circle with Audyssey in the last ten years only to end up preferring it off most of the time. This for me is a happy medium best of both worlds.
REW and Ratbuddy with Control points is the next level approaching a more Diarc style of customization, but I'm going to stick with this for now.
Jimmy2Shoes is offline  
post #5506 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 08:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sjm817's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,511
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 855 Post(s)
Liked: 357
@Jon AA
A while back you were a huge help to me to get the SWs and mains setup with a matching curve. Its been one of the most useful tips I have ever got here. Has worked of really well. What I have setup for a 5dB boost is
LR
20 5
55 5
150 0
400 0

SW
20 5
55 5
150 0

Just checking to see if you have updated your recommendations for a curve of this type??
Thanks

Last edited by sjm817; 01-13-2020 at 09:43 PM.
sjm817 is offline  
post #5507 of 5556 Old 01-13-2020, 11:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
IMWhizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked: 341
MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
How did you manually adjust the sub channel with your Marantz?


I used the SPL tool in REW and went for the level matching method for both subs. Even better would be gain matching first, but I’ll do this when I have more time to do this. I also checked the distances between both subs and meassured the SPL. I went for the highest SPL in combination with my center speaker.

I also looked at the EDT results in REW and they were beautiful. Never before I could achieve that with Audyssey. Also, the Waterfall plot did reveal that my ears were telling me the truth. Especially in the lower end I have more detail.

Lastly I opted for the sub distance tweak to have a perfect blend with the center speaker. I also listen music with the Dolby Surround feature, so this was the logical method for me.

Klipsch Reference Premiere: 4 x RP-280's, 1 x RP 450C and dual R-115W's
Marantz 7011 AVR
LG OLED C9
Apple TV 4K
PlayStation Pro
IMWhizzle is online now  
post #5508 of 5556 Old 01-14-2020, 09:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
D Bone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
I used the SPL tool in REW and went for the level matching method for both subs. Even better would be gain matching first, but I’ll do this when I have more time to do this. I also checked the distances between both subs and meassured the SPL. I went for the highest SPL in combination with my center speaker.

I also looked at the EDT results in REW and they were beautiful. Never before I could achieve that with Audyssey. Also, the Waterfall plot did reveal that my ears were telling me the truth. Especially in the lower end I have more detail.

Lastly I opted for the sub distance tweak to have a perfect blend with the center speaker. I also listen music with the Dolby Surround feature, so this was the logical method for me.
Thanks for the detailed reply. So in the end whatever gains and nulls that are inherent to your sub, its placement, your room and MLP are still there (because your Marantz has no sub EQ) but you notice them less with your tweaks.

Audyssey is definitely a love/hate thing with me as well.
D Bone is offline  
post #5509 of 5556 Old 01-14-2020, 10:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
adam2434's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 797
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon AA View Post
Sorry guys, been busy with other things for a while. As the guy quoted in the FAQ let me try to answer some of these recurring questions.
4) Yes, putting a curve like this on the sub will affect LFE. But you need to look at the big picture. Most typical curves like this will only have the sub down 2-3 db at 100 Hz and maybe 3-4 at 120 (depending upon details, of course). There usually isn't (or shouldn't be) much material in the LFE channel that high anyway. Also, many people lower the low-pass on the LFE anyway for some very good reasons making it pretty much a non-issue. I consider getting things right with the main channels, especially for music, much more important than having the exact perfect tonal balance of some explosion in the LFE...since nobody knows what that's supposed to sound like anyway.
Thanks for the info in your post.

With the sub control points at 20 Hz +6 dB, 55 Hz +6dB, and 160 Hz 0 dB, my sub "after" plot is down about 4 dB at 100 Hz and down about 6 dB at 110 Hz. Of course, more boost will put the curve down even further at 100 Hz.

For 2 channel music, all of the bass is “in” the 2 channels, so no concerns and nothing should be lost with the L/R and Sub control point approach.

For content with an LFE channel, I think the control point approach could become more of a compromise because you don’t know where the bass is mixed in the soundtrack (especially with music/concert discs with an LFE channel). I know the LFE channel can contain up to 120 Hz, but not sure what frequency range is typically assigned to the LFE channel in a soundtrack.

I guess for soundtracks with an LFE channel, one could compare with and without control points to determine if there is a preference, and whether there is a sense of any missing bass (from LFE) with the control points.

-

5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
adam2434 is offline  
post #5510 of 5556 Old 01-14-2020, 12:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
@Jon AA
A while back you were a huge help to me to get the SWs and mains setup with a matching curve. Its been one of the most useful tips I have ever got here. Has worked of really well. What I have setup for a 5dB boost is
LR
20 5
55 5
150 0
400 0

SW
20 5
55 5
150 0

Just checking to see if you have updated your recommendations for a curve of this type??
Thanks
Not really. Now that you have the process down, all that's left is fine tuning to your own personal preferences; what sounds the best to you on your system. More or less boost, sliding the curve left or right a bit (55 and 150 control points), making the slope more or less gradual, different crossover points, etc. Once you've verified everything is working correctly, you can try multiple different variations on the curve and crossover points and just listen and see what you like best.
giomania and Adamg (Ret-Navy) like this.
Jon AA is online now  
post #5511 of 5556 Old 01-14-2020, 12:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
With the sub control points at 20 Hz +6 dB, 55 Hz +6dB, and 160 Hz 0 dB, my sub "after" plot is down about 4 dB at 100 Hz and down about 6 dB at 110 Hz. Of course, more boost will put the curve down even further at 100 Hz......I guess for soundtracks with an LFE channel, one could compare with and without control points to determine if there is a preference, and whether there is a sense of any missing bass (from LFE) with the control points.
That's a good point, it does depend on the curve. If you're only boosting 3-4 db and you slide the 55 Hz control point to 65 Hz for example it would be pretty negligible, but if you're doing say 8 db with the 55 Hz point there or lower it would be more significant. It's possible some mixes are using the LFE hard all the way up to 120 Hz.


However, the only tracks I've run into where it was obvious the LFE was being used so high, I decided it was either unintentional or the mixers didn't know what the hell they were doing. There was a TV show I watched last year and I heard vocals coming from the sub...sounded like crap. I thought something was wrong with my setup. Changed the crossover on the center channel to 60, then 40 Hz and it was still there. Then it dawned on me the idiots were mixing some amount of bass from all channels into the LFE channel. I lowered the low-pass on the LFE to 80 Hz and it went away. Vocals still sounded fine from the center channel. The way 5.1 and up music is mixed really is all over the map, I suppose it's possible to find some that would do the same thing. I think if you're worried about it this is something you'd need to check album to album (if your curve is one that would make a significant difference) and what actually sounds better. I don't know about you, but my current sub sounds like crap at 120 Hz so I think I'm better off tapering that off lower regardless.
Jon AA is online now  
post #5512 of 5556 Old 01-14-2020, 06:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
adam2434's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 797
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon AA View Post
That's a good point, it does depend on the curve. If you're only boosting 3-4 db and you slide the 55 Hz control point to 65 Hz for example it would be pretty negligible, but if you're doing say 8 db with the 55 Hz point there or lower it would be more significant. It's possible some mixes are using the LFE hard all the way up to 120 Hz.


However, the only tracks I've run into where it was obvious the LFE was being used so high, I decided it was either unintentional or the mixers didn't know what the hell they were doing. There was a TV show I watched last year and I heard vocals coming from the sub...sounded like crap. I thought something was wrong with my setup. Changed the crossover on the center channel to 60, then 40 Hz and it was still there. Then it dawned on me the idiots were mixing some amount of bass from all channels into the LFE channel. I lowered the low-pass on the LFE to 80 Hz and it went away. Vocals still sounded fine from the center channel. The way 5.1 and up music is mixed really is all over the map, I suppose it's possible to find some that would do the same thing. I think if you're worried about it this is something you'd need to check album to album (if your curve is one that would make a significant difference) and what actually sounds better. I don't know about you, but my current sub sounds like crap at 120 Hz so I think I'm better off tapering that off lower regardless.
Yeah, with the ratbuddy program (thanks, ratbuddy!), it is so quick and easy to create precise control points, that the options to try are limitless.

As long as the crossover frequency is in the slope range, I guess it would be ok to push the control point to 70 Hz for a 90 Hz crossover. Think so?

Just played around a couple minutes and attached are some screen shots with +8 dB and 70 Hz control point. The sub control points are the same, except no control point at 400 Hz. I have not done any listening, just playing with the software. See anything glaring?

-
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	111.JPG
Views:	42
Size:	23.1 KB
ID:	2670096   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200114-201835_MultEQ.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	298.9 KB
ID:	2670098   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200114-201854_MultEQ.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	255.2 KB
ID:	2670100  

5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
adam2434 is offline  
post #5513 of 5556 Old 01-14-2020, 06:42 PM
Member
 
enphenate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just added two surround speakers (two different speakers due to space constraints) to my system and used the MultEQ app for the first time. I followed the standard Audyssey setup instructions, the guide from this thread as well as the suggestions to add 6DB addition to the LR and SW. It looks like I have a big dip at around 70Hz in my sub.

Do these graphs look ok? Should I re-run Audyssey?

Also thanks for the update on this thread @Jon AA , I will also add the 6DB to the center and surround channels. The problem is that I don't have REW or a mic for it to be able to test my speakers to see where they overlap, so I don't know if the 6DB is actually benefitting me or not. I do have a SPL meter though, but not sure how I would be able to test and confirm with it.

my setup:
Sub: HSU VTF2-MK3
Fronts: Jamo C803
Center: Jamo C80 CEN
Surrounds: Jamo C603 SL and Jamo sur400 SR
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200112-202651.png
Views:	39
Size:	82.6 KB
ID:	2670102   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200112-202646.png
Views:	36
Size:	103.9 KB
ID:	2670104   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200112-202641.png
Views:	34
Size:	96.4 KB
ID:	2670106   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200112-202637.png
Views:	33
Size:	97.9 KB
ID:	2670108   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200112-202632.png
Views:	36
Size:	94.9 KB
ID:	2670110  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20200112-202627.png
Views:	35
Size:	90.0 KB
ID:	2670112  

Last edited by enphenate; 01-14-2020 at 06:49 PM.
enphenate is offline  
post #5514 of 5556 Old 01-14-2020, 07:17 PM
Senior Member
 
bytor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
As noted above, use Ratbuddyssey. I have included detailed instructions here:


https://docs.google.com/file/d/1YH_e...iletype=msword
One thing I’m confused about is if I should raise the level on my fronts/center. I have them crossed over at 60hz. Let’s say I raise the sub +6dB so then EQ the fronts/center to +6dB in the 60-100hz range. Would that then lower the output of them by 6dB like it would with the sub when you EQ the sub +6dB?
bytor is offline  
post #5515 of 5556 Old 01-15-2020, 03:19 AM
Member
 
invisabiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
after setting frequency range to 500 hz i went into the receivers audyssey setup and checked equalizer results. i noticed when it was set to reference it showed no equalization above 500 hz but when i changed it to flat it showed full equalization. does the receiver flat setting bypass frequency range settings from the app?
invisabiker is offline  
post #5516 of 5556 Old 01-15-2020, 05:47 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by invisabiker View Post
after setting frequency range to 500 hz i went into the receivers audyssey setup and checked equalizer results. i noticed when it was set to reference it showed no equalization above 500 hz but when i changed it to flat it showed full equalization. does the receiver flat setting bypass frequency range settings from the app?
When using the App any changes that are made will be updated to the reference(Audyssey) curve. Flat will remain the same regardless of any changes made on the App.
I think if MRC is removed it is removed for both Flat and Reference(Audyssey) but that is all that will change to my knowledge
giomania likes this.
Jimmy2Shoes is offline  
post #5517 of 5556 Old 01-15-2020, 06:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,855
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2935 Post(s)
Liked: 4484
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
I have totally enjoyed learning and reading about this app and finally did another post holiday calibration run. Not sure if this has been brought up but I used vibration reducing discs under my tripod legs. I use them if I am recording a local live band with a portable digital recorder vs. the FOH mixer. This may help others reduce vibration. I do not have REW....



The speakers are Atlantic technology THX 350 L C R w/ side and back in-wall AT THX surrounds. Audyssey set my main x-over to 40hz and I changed it to 80hz after some during-football sub FAQ reading. My surrounds were set to 200hz and 250hz and I left those. I do not listen to two channel music critically with this system, just movies (loud) and network TV (lower volume).



My results are attached and I just humbly ask one thing....



I definitely need more sub bass (as always post-calibration) for BOTH my casual low volume listening and high volume movies. The subs can take it. But I want to get that without making my midrange boomy or muddy. Just boosting the sub level with the sub trim after a long ago receiver-based Audyssey calibration did that and I don't like it. I even did some reading on cascading crossovers and I certainly could implement that with my subs which have an analog dial crossover setting I could play with.



I do see some response spike post-crossover on them but not sure what Audyssey is doing with that?????? Right now I have the subs internal crossovers wide open.



I plan to run with DEQ on as I listen at lower volumes other than movies which are more near reference. I also understand that dialing in a full house curve and "tilt" would mean I would probably want to turn DEQ off or that would defeat the purpose, at least at lower volume levels. Correct? But maybe a tweak is in order to get some of that tilt back when I listen at more aggressive volume?



I know I need to do something on the subs....some combination of sub level increase and perhaps a custom curve.

Should I just do a say +5db custom curve boost on the sub at maybe both 20hz and 55hz? Or based on the graphs just raise my sub trim (I have room, ran the sub high enough at calibration)? Do I need to cut anything on the subs at the higher frequencies? I assume with the x0ver switched to 80hz source material should be many db down out there going to the sub.



I am also game to try a bit of a tilt on my mains because when running at higher movie volume my DEQ is mostly off. I can see the natural response of my speakers and how one boosted control point would bring back their natural curve, but would leaving DEQ on double that up?



I guess a second question is should I do something with my mains in conjunction with whatever sub change is recommended, like a boost around the crossover to get some downward tilt?



LOL, it sure would be nice to have an instant switch between a low-volume and high-volume custom curve as uploading profiles for each new listening session is not realistic. I am just trying to split the difference for now.



I have not played with the HF 1 vs. 2 rolloff yet, just left it at default and from the graph you can tell I left MRC on also.



Thanks for any thoughts.



















Looks like there is something terribly wrong with your speakers. The response drops off a cliff and it looks like Audyssey is boosting 10+ dB to try and fix it. Correction above Schroeder shouldn’t be needed on a well designed speaker. I can’t imagine what that must sound like


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
bear123 is online now  
post #5518 of 5556 Old 01-15-2020, 08:11 AM
Senior Member
 
BJBBJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 433
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
I have totally enjoyed learning and reading about this app and finally did another post holiday calibration run. Not sure if this has been brought up but I used vibration reducing discs under my tripod legs. I use them if I am recording a local live band with a portable digital recorder vs. the FOH mixer. This may help others reduce vibration. I do not have REW....



The speakers are Atlantic technology THX 350 L C R w/ side and back in-wall AT THX surrounds. Audyssey set my main x-over to 40hz and I changed it to 80hz after some during-football sub FAQ reading. My surrounds were set to 200hz and 250hz and I left those. I do not listen to two channel music critically with this system, just movies (loud) and network TV (lower volume).



My results are attached and I just humbly ask one thing....



I definitely need more sub bass (as always post-calibration) for BOTH my casual low volume listening and high volume movies. The subs can take it. But I want to get that without making my midrange boomy or muddy. Just boosting the sub level with the sub trim after a long ago receiver-based Audyssey calibration did that and I don't like it. I even did some reading on cascading crossovers and I certainly could implement that with my subs which have an analog dial crossover setting I could play with.



I do see some response spike post-crossover on them but not sure what Audyssey is doing with that?????? Right now I have the subs internal crossovers wide open.



I plan to run with DEQ on as I listen at lower volumes other than movies which are more near reference. I also understand that dialing in a full house curve and "tilt" would mean I would probably want to turn DEQ off or that would defeat the purpose, at least at lower volume levels. Correct? But maybe a tweak is in order to get some of that tilt back when I listen at more aggressive volume?



I know I need to do something on the subs....some combination of sub level increase and perhaps a custom curve.

Should I just do a say +5db custom curve boost on the sub at maybe both 20hz and 55hz? Or based on the graphs just raise my sub trim (I have room, ran the sub high enough at calibration)? Do I need to cut anything on the subs at the higher frequencies? I assume with the x0ver switched to 80hz source material should be many db down out there going to the sub.



I am also game to try a bit of a tilt on my mains because when running at higher movie volume my DEQ is mostly off. I can see the natural response of my speakers and how one boosted control point would bring back their natural curve, but would leaving DEQ on double that up?



I guess a second question is should I do something with my mains in conjunction with whatever sub change is recommended, like a boost around the crossover to get some downward tilt?



LOL, it sure would be nice to have an instant switch between a low-volume and high-volume custom curve as uploading profiles for each new listening session is not realistic. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] I am just trying to split the difference for now.



I have not played with the HF 1 vs. 2 rolloff yet, just left it at default and from the graph you can tell I left MRC on also.



Thanks for any thoughts.



















Looks like there is something terribly wrong with your speakers. The response drops off a cliff and it looks like Audyssey is boosting 10+ dB to try and fix it. Correction above Schroeder shouldn’️t be needed on a well designed speaker. I can’️t imagine what that must sound like


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
New tweeters are on the way! 😀. Any thoughts on my questions regarding sub boost and tilt attempt are appreciated.

I never listened to speakers recently with Audyssey off. And when I did....for sure, something was wrong. Audyssey trying to fix and is better but not the same. Can't wait for new tweeters.

Thanks,
BJBBJB

Last edited by BJBBJB; 01-15-2020 at 11:04 AM.
BJBBJB is offline  
post #5519 of 5556 Old 01-15-2020, 11:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
As long as the crossover frequency is in the slope range, I guess it would be ok to push the control point to 70 Hz for a 90 Hz crossover. Think so?
Just to clarify a bit, the crossover doesn't have to be where the curve is sloping. It just needs to be in the range where the speaker and sub can both be on the same curve. For example, if you have giant towers that are strong to 20 Hz, a 40 Hz crossover (on the flat spot before the slope) would be just fine. Conversely, a small surround or ceiling speaker with no bottom end could be crossed over on the flat spot after the slope if it's not capable of playing in the range of the bass hump at all. Of course some may prefer a more gradual slope that starts at a higher frequency and continues rising all the way to 20 Hz, in which case you'd always be on the slope. That'll work just fine too; as long as they're both following the same curve the volumes should match at the crossover.


Quote:
Just played around a couple minutes and attached are some screen shots with +8 dB and 70 Hz control point. The sub control points are the same, except no control point at 400 Hz. I have not done any listening, just playing with the software. See anything glaring?
Looks fine. The 400 Hz point was really just a safety as I found the control points could do funky things when I was figuring learning how they work. The idea was to ensure (especially if you move the next control point down for a steeper slope and your sub is capable of playing higher frequencies) the next control point down wasn't simply creating a dip that would allow the response to rise after it.


One other general note for those wanting the bump at the bottom to be really big--8, 10, 12 db, etc; it's probably even more important to measure and see what you're actually getting. You might not successfully get quite that much from your main speakers (if you enter +10 db, measurements might show you're actually only getting 8 or something), in which case you'd reduce the amount you increase the sub level a couple db until the lines match. For those wanting a huge boost at the bottom, you may be more successful with a more gradual curve that starts rising at a higher frequency.



And that's for main speakers that are very bass capable. Smaller mains will likely never reach the full amount as they'll roll off somewhere on the slope--but that's OK. The object is to get them on the same curve so the slope matches wherever you put the crossover. That's what you're looking for in the measurements in that case--don't be alarmed if they never make it to the "top of the hump," you just want the curves to match above where they start their rolloff.
giomania and Adamg (Ret-Navy) like this.
Jon AA is online now  
post #5520 of 5556 Old 01-15-2020, 12:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon AA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by enphenate View Post
Do these graphs look ok? Should I re-run Audyssey?
They look fine, no need to re-run Audyssey. The big thing that sticks out is don't forget to do the same curve on your center channel. You want your center channel to tonally match your left and right as closely as possible. And I'd go ahead and do it on the surrounds as well--it won't make as big a difference but you should be able to get a bit better match without having a really, really high crossover.
Adamg (Ret-Navy) likes this.

Last edited by Jon AA; 01-15-2020 at 12:05 PM.
Jon AA is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Denon , Marantz , multeq editor app

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off