MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2912Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #751 of 5527 Old 05-28-2017, 07:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yes I have 2 Rythmik FV15HPs which go down to 12hz in single port mode which is what I use to EQ. So we will also be able to see, at least in my case, whether the app is rolling off under 20hz. I would be very surprised if that happened but we will see!
very good subs. i hope everything will work out fine for u.
good luck

Last edited by marco1975; 05-28-2017 at 08:08 PM.
marco1975 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #752 of 5527 Old 05-28-2017, 07:32 PM
d4g
Member
 
d4g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Does it look ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
d4g is offline  
post #753 of 5527 Old 05-28-2017, 07:33 PM
d4g
Member
 
d4g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Mind you I have 2 sub 15 but only using one hehhehe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
d4g is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #754 of 5527 Old 05-28-2017, 07:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g View Post
Mind you I have 2 sub 15 but only using one hehhehe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sound cool pal why not use them both?
sorry but that graph u have posted for the sub. dosn,t realy tell much , as thise is an averaging represantation of the response over the whole listenig arial, can,t u measure with something like Rew?
in any case i can,t see that u have any ugly peaks that u should worry about and it seems the kit is doing very good job
ahblaza likes this.

Last edited by marco1975; 05-28-2017 at 08:09 PM.
marco1975 is offline  
post #755 of 5527 Old 05-28-2017, 10:54 PM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
After comparing Audyssey XT32 between the app and the AVR, here are my conclusions:

1. AVR Calibration resulted in much better dual subwoofer integration as is shown in my REW charts a bit down below.
2. Crossovers and Distances were set ever so slightly differently. Channel Volume was considerable.
3. My Subwoofer channel was not cut short at 20hz, it still extends down to 12Hz following Audyssey in both cases.

Here is my supporting work. I ran Audyssey first through my Marantz SR6011, then I ran sweeps with REW. Then I ran Audyssey through the MultEQ Editor App and followed that by running more sweeps. Sweeps were taken in MLP (Main Listening Position) and SLP (Secondary Listening Position) for both. Also note, in both cases, regardless of what Audyssey determined, I set Fronts, Centers, and Surrounds to 80Hz and left Front Heights and Rear Heights to what Audyssey set. I also made sure all speakers were set to small.

First let's take a look at Speaker Config between the two. App set Front and Center to Small while AVR set the to Large
Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now the Distances between the two. Pretty close here

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Now the Levels between the two. These were somewhat large differences.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Crossovers were not real high or different. No issue here for me.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. First lets take a look at MLP Sub Frequency Response - Clearly the AVR wins here.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. Next lets take a look at MLP Full Frequency Response - I tend to favor the app between these two.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Finally - for MLP - lets take a look the waterfall graphs - not too much different here - bad ringing from my room below 25Hz

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



I posted all these same measurements for SLP below as well if you want to take a look. Filenames are marked so you will know what you're looking at. Now to rerun AVR Audyssey once more. I'm going to hold off on using the app for now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	APP-Crossovers.jpg
Views:	1115
Size:	132.7 KB
ID:	2160498   Click image for larger version

Name:	APP-DISTANCES.jpg
Views:	1111
Size:	133.6 KB
ID:	2160506   Click image for larger version

Name:	APP-DISTANCES2.jpg
Views:	1107
Size:	126.1 KB
ID:	2160514   Click image for larger version

Name:	APP-SP-CONFIG.jpg
Views:	1098
Size:	118.6 KB
ID:	2160522   Click image for larger version

Name:	AVR-Crossovers.jpg
Views:	1101
Size:	117.5 KB
ID:	2160530  

Click image for larger version

Name:	AVR-DISTANCE.jpg
Views:	1103
Size:	131.4 KB
ID:	2160538   Click image for larger version

Name:	AVR-Levels.jpg
Views:	1109
Size:	130.9 KB
ID:	2160546   Click image for larger version

Name:	AVR-SP-CONFIG.jpg
Views:	1106
Size:	117.7 KB
ID:	2160554   Click image for larger version

Name:	APP-Levels.jpg
Views:	1096
Size:	126.8 KB
ID:	2160562   Click image for larger version

Name:	MLP-Audy-App-Full.png
Views:	914
Size:	64.3 KB
ID:	2160602  

Click image for larger version

Name:	MLP-Audy-App-SWx2.png
Views:	2549
Size:	63.9 KB
ID:	2160610   Click image for larger version

Name:	MLP-Audy-App-SWx2-Waterfall.png
Views:	1106
Size:	374.3 KB
ID:	2160618   Click image for larger version

Name:	MLP-Audy-AVR-Full.png
Views:	984
Size:	33.7 KB
ID:	2160626   Click image for larger version

Name:	MLP-Audy-AVR-SWx2.png
Views:	1962
Size:	30.6 KB
ID:	2160634   Click image for larger version

Name:	MLP-Audy-AVR-SWx2-Waterfall.png
Views:	1103
Size:	183.3 KB
ID:	2160642  

Click image for larger version

Name:	SLP-Audy-App-Full.png
Views:	690
Size:	64.1 KB
ID:	2160650   Click image for larger version

Name:	SLP-Audy-App-SWx2.png
Views:	72
Size:	64.3 KB
ID:	2160658   Click image for larger version

Name:	SLP-Audy-App-SWx2-Waterfall.png
Views:	71
Size:	383.9 KB
ID:	2160666   Click image for larger version

Name:	SLP-Audy-AVR-Full.png
Views:	73
Size:	35.5 KB
ID:	2160674   Click image for larger version

Name:	SLP-Audy-AVR-SWx2.png
Views:	70
Size:	36.7 KB
ID:	2160682  

Click image for larger version

Name:	SLP-Audy-AVR-SWx2-Waterfall.png
Views:	69
Size:	232.9 KB
ID:	2160690  
nathan_h, marco1975 and MarcusSwe like this.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |

Last edited by citsur86; 05-31-2017 at 08:27 PM.
citsur86 is offline  
post #756 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 12:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 14,009
Mentioned: 268 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5850 Post(s)
Liked: 5424
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The issue is being looked into by D+M; however, appears to be more of an issue for some users much more so than others.
I think the issues are a bit more widespread than they may realize. Only a small fraction of users even have thr ability to check with a mic & software.
ahblaza and marco1975 like this.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #757 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 04:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 85,059
Mentioned: 766 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23177 Post(s)
Liked: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I think the issues are a bit more widespread than they may realize. Only a small fraction of users even have thr ability to check with a mic & software.
Hard to say, although there are only a few posters in this thread who are reporting large crossover differences between the AVR and app, while some others like citsur86 are seeing only minor differences.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #758 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 04:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
After comparing Audyssey XT32 between the app and the AVR, here are my conclusions:

1. AVR Calibration resulted in much better dual subwoofer integration as is shown in my REW charts a bit down below.
2. Crossovers and Distances were set ever so slightly differently. Channel Volume was considerable.
3. My Subwoofer channel was not cut short at 20hz, it still extends down to 12Hz following Audyssey in both cases.

Here is my supporting work. I ran Audyssey first through my Marantz SR6011, then I ran sweeps with REW. Then I ran Audyssey through the MultEQ Editor App and followed that by running more sweeps. Sweeps were taken in MLP (Main Listening Position) and SLP (Secondary Listening Position) for both. Also note, in both cases, regardless of what Audyssey determined, I set Fronts, Centers, and Surrounds to 80Hz and left Front Heights and Rear Heights to what Audyssey set. I also made sure all speakers were set to small.

First let's take a look at Speaker Config between the two. App set Front and Center to Small while AVR set the to Large
Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now the Distances between the two. Pretty close here

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Now the Levels between the two. These were somewhat large differences.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Crossovers were not real high or different. No issue here for me.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. First lets take a look at MLP Sub Frequency Response - Clearly the AVR wins here.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. Next lets take a look at MLP Full Frequency Response - I tend to favor the app between these two.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Finally - for MLP - lets take a look the waterfall graphs - not too much different here - bad ringing from my room below 25Hz

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



I posted all these same measurements for SLP below as well if you want to take a look. Filenames are marked so you will know what you're looking at. Now to rerun AVR Audyssey once more. I'm going to hold off on using the app for now.
thats somehow tell us that the rolloff is more of an issue then being intentionally included in Curve. which is i was also afraid of (another issue to be fixed) but we realy need some more tester and see more result.
but in any case i have to say Wow that the Audy. AVR. is doing much better job at Eqing your subs, more smoother response and integration! (that even bring the App. more into questioning)
Nice work my freind, thanks for sharing.
ahblaza likes this.

Last edited by marco1975; 05-29-2017 at 05:00 AM.
marco1975 is offline  
post #759 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 04:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I think the issues are a bit more widespread than they may realize. Only a small fraction of users even have thr ability to check with a mic & software.
U are absolutely right on that my freind!
marco1975 is offline  
post #760 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 06:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
After comparing Audyssey XT32 between the app and the AVR, here are my conclusions:

1. AVR Calibration resulted in much better dual subwoofer integration as is shown in my REW charts a bit down below.
2. Crossovers and Distances were set ever so slightly differently. Channel Volume was considerable.
3. My Subwoofer channel was not cut short at 20hz, it still extends down to 12Hz following Audyssey in both cases.

Here is my supporting work. I ran Audyssey first through my Marantz SR6011, then I ran sweeps with REW. Then I ran Audyssey through the MultEQ Editor App and followed that by running more sweeps. Sweeps were taken in MLP (Main Listening Position) and SLP (Secondary Listening Position) for both. Also note, in both cases, regardless of what Audyssey determined, I set Fronts, Centers, and Surrounds to 80Hz and left Front Heights and Rear Heights to what Audyssey set. I also made sure all speakers were set to small.

First let's take a look at Speaker Config between the two. App set Front and Center to Small while AVR set the to Large
Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now the Distances between the two. Pretty close here

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Now the Levels between the two. These were somewhat large differences.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Crossovers were not real high or different. No issue here for me.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. First lets take a look at MLP Sub Frequency Response - Clearly the AVR wins here.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. Next lets take a look at MLP Full Frequency Response - I tend to favor the app between these two.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Finally - for MLP - lets take a look the waterfall graphs - not too much different here - bad ringing from my room below 25Hz

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



I posted all these same measurements for SLP below as well if you want to take a look. Filenames are marked so you will know what you're looking at. Now to rerun AVR Audyssey once more. I'm going to hold off on using the app for now.
just wanted to say , that in the full Frq. resoposne test, the graph for the AVR. result it show the full range from 10hz-20K allright ,but in the App test. the graph for the result it only show from 10hz-300Hz , i think some how u had re-uploaded the App. subs Curve for the full frq. test against the AVR. full req. test could i please i ask u to post the full range result for the App. as well? so we can better compare them? Thanks

Last edited by marco1975; 05-29-2017 at 06:05 AM.
marco1975 is offline  
post #761 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 06:09 AM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
just wanted to say , that in the full Frq. resoposne test, the graph for the AVR. result it show the full range from 10hz-20K allright ,but in the App test. the graph for the result it only show from 10hz-300Hz , i think some how u had re-uploaded the App. subs Curve for the full frq. test against the AVR. full req. test could i please i ask u to post the full range result for the App. as well? so we can better compare them? Thanks
Whoops had the wrong link in there. Please disregard what it was before.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
citsur86 is offline  
post #762 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 11:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bmcn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,563
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2302 Post(s)
Liked: 3221
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
...3. My Subwoofer channel was not cut short at 20hz, it still extends down to 12Hz following Audyssey in both cases...I'm going to hold off on using the app for now.
Nice work, thanks. To understand your thought process, the combined response of all speakers using the app looks slightly better than the AVR's, but you chose the AVR because its subs only response is much flatter than the app's? I've grappled with this and concluded the combined response was more important than sub(s) only.
bmcn is offline  
post #763 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 11:28 AM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Nice work. To understand your thought process, the combined response of all speakers using the app looks slightly better than the AVR's, but you chose the AVR because its subs only response is much flatter than the app's? I've grappled with this and concluded the combined response was more important than sub(s) only.


I went back and forth on this last night for a while. I think that the app calibration is slightly better in some places and worse in others for the full response. Because of that, I ultimately chose to go with the AVR calibration. Also, the issues I'm hearing about with the app and the fact that its so new steers me away from it for the time being. I will redo the app calibration after each update the app or AVR gets and compare.

Another reason is that I've worked for almost a year with a UMIK-1 and miniDSP 2x4-HD to get my rooms gnarly issues under control - to little success. Seeing the sub response handled with Audyssey made me just have to choose it!

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
citsur86 is offline  
post #764 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bmcn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,563
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2302 Post(s)
Liked: 3221
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
...Also, the issues I'm hearing about with the app and the fact that its so new steers me away from it for the time being...

Seeing the sub response handled with Audyssey made me just have to choose it!
Not quibbling, your measurements apparently disproved the much lamented LF rolloff "issue" which i think would improve your overall confidence level in the app.

Completely understand that.

Last edited by bmcn; 05-29-2017 at 11:45 AM.
bmcn is offline  
post #765 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 11:37 AM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Not quibbling; your measurements apparently disproved the much lamented rollover "issue" which i think would improve your overall confidence level in the app.

Understand that.

Yeah that is true. But the fact that they were different to such considerable degrees, especially the channel levels, has me wanting to hold off for a bit. I do think there are some bugs to iron out. And in the meantime, I'm very happy with the AVR Calibration I wound up with.
ahblaza and bmcn like this.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
citsur86 is offline  
post #766 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 12:06 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 14,009
Mentioned: 268 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5850 Post(s)
Liked: 5424
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Hard to say, although there are only a few posters in this thread who are reporting large crossover differences between the AVR and app, while some others like citsur86 are seeing only minor differences.
JD, most concerning to me is just how different the FRs of the AVR vs the App are measuring. I have faith the x-over issue will be resolved. I think the few users with measurement mics have to be vocal regarding the FR issue which ALL users may be suffering from.
ahblaza and marco1975 like this.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #767 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 12:07 PM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
JD, most concerning to me is just how different the FRs of the AVR vs the App are measuring. I have faith the x-over issue will be resolved. I think the few users with measurement mics have to be vocal regarding the FR issue which ALL users may be suffering from.


How do I go about opening a ticket or otherwise reporting my findings?

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
citsur86 is offline  
post #768 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 01:58 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 85,059
Mentioned: 766 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23177 Post(s)
Liked: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
JD, most concerning to me is just how different the FRs of the AVR vs the App are measuring. I have faith the x-over issue will be resolved. I think the few users with measurement mics have to be vocal regarding the FR issue which ALL users may be suffering from.
Given time ... I'm sure D+M will resolve the current issues.
ahblaza likes this.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #769 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,963
Mentioned: 243 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3111 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
How do I go about opening a ticket or otherwise reporting my findings?


Think you open a case with Denon support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #770 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 03:40 PM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Think you open a case with Denon support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Submitted a case with a link to my comparison post in this thread.
nathan_h and ahblaza like this.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
citsur86 is offline  
post #771 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 03:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,963
Mentioned: 243 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3111 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Submitted a case with a link to my comparison post in this thread.


Great. Hopefully when they see enough of these cases, they will do something about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #772 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 04:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
After comparing Audyssey XT32 between the app and the AVR, here are my conclusions:

1. AVR Calibration resulted in much better dual subwoofer integration as is shown in my REW charts a bit down below.
2. Crossovers and Distances were set ever so slightly differently. Channel Volume was considerable.
3. My Subwoofer channel was not cut short at 20hz, it still extends down to 12Hz following Audyssey in both cases.

Here is my supporting work. I ran Audyssey first through my Marantz SR6011, then I ran sweeps with REW. Then I ran Audyssey through the MultEQ Editor App and followed that by running more sweeps. Sweeps were taken in MLP (Main Listening Position) and SLP (Secondary Listening Position) for both. Also note, in both cases, regardless of what Audyssey determined, I set Fronts, Centers, and Surrounds to 80Hz and left Front Heights and Rear Heights to what Audyssey set. I also made sure all speakers were set to small.

First let's take a look at Speaker Config between the two. App set Front and Center to Small while AVR set the to Large
Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now the Distances between the two. Pretty close here

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Now the Levels between the two. These were somewhat large differences.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:




Crossovers were not real high or different. No issue here for me.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. First lets take a look at MLP Sub Frequency Response - Clearly the AVR wins here.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Now to the measurements. Next lets take a look at MLP Full Frequency Response - I tend to favor the app between these two.

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



Finally - for MLP - lets take a look the waterfall graphs - not too much different here - bad ringing from my room below 25Hz

Here is the AVR:


Here is the App:



I posted all these same measurements for SLP below as well if you want to take a look. Filenames are marked so you will know what you're looking at. Now to rerun AVR Audyssey once more. I'm going to hold off on using the app for now.
if u don,t mind me asking , which curve did u use for measuring the AVR. full frq. response Falt or reference? was DynEQ On during the test for the AVR. ? i hope that if u can use the same smoothing amount for both graph for a better comparion. thanks
marco1975 is offline  
post #773 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 04:21 PM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
if u don,t mind me asking , which curve did u use for measuring the AVR. full frq. response ? was DynEQ On during the test ? i hope that if u can use the same smoothing amount for both graph for a better comparion. thanks


I used the Audyssey curve with Dynamic EQ on in both cases.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
citsur86 is offline  
post #774 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 04:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I used the Audyssey curve with Dynamic EQ on in both cases.
ultimately u want this kind of test without any kind of fuzzy boosting such as dyneq/dynvol elc.
but to be honest with u , to me they look both close in the full frq. rang test, i guess the App. looks a bit nicer because the graph smoothing?
nice work thanks
marco1975 is offline  
post #775 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 04:50 PM
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1992 Post(s)
Liked: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
ultimately u want this kind of test without any kind of fuzzy boosting such as dyneq/dynvol elc.
but to be honest with u , to me they look both close in the full frq. rang test, i guess the App. looks a bit nicer because the graph smoothing?
nice work thanks


There probably is an audible difference between the two, but probably not a better or worse one. The sub frequencies were clearly better with the AVR Audyssey runs though.

I may play more this week and if I do, I'll turn off Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume before running my REW sweeps. But given it was on in both, it's probably fine. Apples to apples.

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
citsur86 is offline  
post #776 of 5527 Old 05-29-2017, 05:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
There probably is an audible difference between the two, but probably not a better or worse one. The sub frequencies were clearly better with the AVR Audyssey runs though.

I may play more this week and if I do, I'll turn off Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume before running my REW sweeps. But given it was on in both, it's probably fine. Apples to apples.
Sure Absolutely fine! however the graph smoothing is very important to be identical. on both graph
marco1975 is offline  
post #777 of 5527 Old 05-30-2017, 12:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
ultimately u want this kind of test without any kind of fuzzy boosting such as dyneq/dynvol elc.
but to be honest with u , to me they look both close in the full frq. rang test, i guess the App. looks a bit nicer because the graph smoothing?
nice work thanks
What do you mean by "fuzzy boosting" ?
DynamicEQ ist just a "not so simple loudness correction" function to compensate for the well known deficiencies of human hearing (known since early last century as Fletcher Munson correction algorithm) whilst DynamicVolume is a dynamic compressor mostly for late night listening and dialogue enhancement (no "boosting" at all).

Last edited by gurkey; 05-30-2017 at 12:16 AM.
gurkey is offline  
post #778 of 5527 Old 05-30-2017, 02:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hello from Holland !
Posts: 3,345
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 402
"Save" to buy the app now ?

Hi, i am just interested to bump the mid freqencies like the "Denon Dialog Enhancement" option, is bumping the mid freq. in 3 steps.
Read some problems but looks like it all has to do with subwoofers, i do not use a subwoofer.......

Thanks
CBdicX is offline  
post #779 of 5527 Old 05-30-2017, 04:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
marco1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post
What do you mean by "fuzzy boosting" ?
DynamicEQ ist just a "not so simple loudness correction" function to compensate for the well known deficiencies of human hearing (known since early last century as Fletcher Munson correction algorithm) whilst DynamicVolume is a dynamic compressor mostly for late night listening and dialogue enhancement (no "boosting" at all).
Sure. but it,s still called a (Boosting process) just more an advance and smarter way of doing it. and the fact its gonna allway add its own thing in the order to compensate, and which sounds mixer don,t have in mind when they mix a sound track for the movie.
But anyway this is realy another topic , and we don,t wanna start it here
marco1975 is offline  
post #780 of 5527 Old 05-30-2017, 04:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 181
No.
It compensates for hearing deficiencies of the human hearing at listening levels below 85 db (reference level), where most sound tracks are been mixed originally, thus resulting in a statistically perceived "linear" frequency response for the listener at lower (below reference level) listening levels.
Because it does this in correspondence with the listener adjusted actual listening level it is labelled as "dynamic".

Has really nothing to do with your interpretation of "boosting".

PS.: There is a difference in terms of measuring and listening: if you are listening to a sound track your probably will have DynamicEQ engaged, but if you are measuring the response of the system, you probably will need to switch DynamicEQ off, because your mike doesn't have that deficiency problem of human hearing. It records rather "linearly", never mind the frequency deviations of your individual mike.

Last edited by gurkey; 05-30-2017 at 02:38 PM.
gurkey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Denon , Marantz , multeq editor app

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off