MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Btw, are the graphs red/green on a black background like I've seen? I can't read white background stuff for squat right now.
Reading REW graphs posted are pretty much a no go right now.
Thx
Here's an example, I haven't noticed any white graphs

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Old 04-05-2017, 05:45 PM
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The bear is on a different island than Audyssey's direct competitors, unless you're on AVS. Then you know. But as the kid's video on YouTube has it, when it comes to Audyssey, they're not on a bear hunt. LOL.
Correct and that was mainly my point. I agree it's superior to Audyssey but this new MultEQ mobile app seems to be a pretty capable tweaker tool in the mid level receiver market where Dirac software doesn't occupy any space. Dirac gets plenty of love here but the reality is most just aren't willing to pay the price of admission. For those that are and can get their money's worth out of it to me makes it a no brainer choice. For the rest a $20 ante is a small price to pay to get their feet wet.



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The typical buyer of a D&M processor at Best Buy/Magnolia or maybe selected by a CI for them on a higher end (the kind of folks I saw at the last CEDIA in the Denon room planning the room for them) will think this is a leap forward.
Right and that's because it is a leap forward at it's marketing level. There's always nicer burrows further down the rabbit hole that we call home audio but Dirac isn't at the top of that food chain either but that doesn't stop it from being improved on dare I say, "leapt forward" each year as well. Everything's relative. I don't spend $700 + on flagship phones but I can customize mine pretty well using Xposed framework and other rooting tools and apps to get the most out of my device and being behind the flagships doesn't bother me because I don't go for swims with my phone nor do I have a dedicated listening room. However I like getting great sound out of my setup as much as the dedicated theater guy although at different listening levels I'm sure😱.

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The hobbyists buying XMC-1s, thinking about input voltages for the MiniDSP 88A and editing their target curves by manually tweaking high/low shelf parameters, or spending toward the high four figures or low five figures on a Datasat or Storm Audio processor will yawn.
True and they paid good money for that right to yawn but my guess is they are mostly yawning because of how tired they are from climbing that learning curve at that level of audio software tweaking. I'm not dumb( I did custom ROM and rooting support on XDA Developers for a few years) and REW was a head scratcher to me for a while till the light finally came on in my head. For a $20 Google Play debit along with what Audyssey XT32 also offers in the LF's there's a lot of value for the mid range crowd without a dedicated theater room but who might want a bit more control over their room correction suite without the higher ante of Dirac. For those with the bank to own the latter setups I sold that crowd products for 20 years and when they picked up their Corvettes or LTZ Tahoe's and Suburban's you would have thought they were buying a loaf of bread from the store half the time based on their demeanor so having the best doesn't necessarily always equate to feeling the best😉.



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Speaking as a former Audyssey Pro user, though, it's about time.
As a long time Denon owner I concur👍.
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:55 PM
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Yes, looking forward to doing that.
That will be a worthwhile read. Thanks.
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:59 PM
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Fabulous, after position 5 it threw an error and I have to start all over! Arrrrrrgh!

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Old 04-05-2017, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Corect and that was mainly my point. I agree it's superior to Audyssey but this new MultEQ mobile app seems to be a pretty capable tweaker tool in the mid level receiver market where Dirac software doesn't occupy any space. Dirac gets plenty of love here but the reality is most just aren't willing to pay the price of admission. For those that are and can get their money's worth out of it to me makes it a no brainer choice. For the rest a $20 ante is a small price to pay to get their feet wet.
Considering how much of the functionality of Audyssey Pro is in that $20 app, it's a fantastic value IF you're in the Audyssey world. Sure, it helps to buy the whole way of thinking (DEQ with RLO, DVol, etc.), but at least it allows a curve-curious Audyssey user to do more than they could last week. And in its current form, I agree about Dirac, at least in the MiniDSP 88A world because you're automatically dealing with at least one box, but maybe two to EQ all the Atmos channels, and it pulls you into separates. If all you want is a nice X4300 or x7200 AVR with some built-in sources like Internet Radio or an FM tuner, and you want to run a nice calibration where you can do a bit of a house curve and just sit and enjoy movies in your living room, this is for you. And that's fine.

I just hope that D&M realizes that an app like this one is just a first step for where they need to go to compete with the level above their higher end processors (think the X6300 or the X7200, or the 8803). It's not a brick wall between the 8803 and the alleged Emotiva RMC-1, or the soon to drop Lyngdorf MP-50, at least as time doesn't stand still.
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Old 04-05-2017, 06:26 PM
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@sdrucker
Well that pretty much put a bow on it.
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Old 04-05-2017, 06:29 PM
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Im trying to learn audyssey and I'm terrified of making my system sound worse by over tinkering. I ran the audyssey app and this is the graph that came back. Is the goal of audyssey to get that line as flat as possible? Would I be correct if I cut off all eq at 200 if I really wanted to bring out the high frequencies? I'm happy with the currently stored audyssey settings on my receiver, do I lose them forever if I push the new settings to the receiver? I know we are all learning, I appreciate any help.
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Old 04-05-2017, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Fabulous, after position 5 it threw an error and I have to start all over! Arrrrrrgh!
Got it! Whew...crashed again afterwards. Just looking at results..😑
Really wish it showed XOs/sizes/trim levels. Sounds a little thin right now, gotta go in look around.

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Old 04-05-2017, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
This is a big plus for Audyssey owners, but I don't think its going to close the gap on the superiority of Dirac's algorithms and impulse response corrections vs Audyssey. The target editor is just icing on the cake with Dirac. Still a big win though and something that Audyssey has been far too long missing.
I'm not sure. I'm interested to see verification of what it does. The "affordable" AVRs and pre-pros with Dirac are all so problematic, between order-of-operations issues and relatively scant DSP space for filters. (miniDSP boxes and Datasat are different.)

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A Denon X4300h is taking its place, should be here Saturday, for sure the first thing I will do is use the new app and write up what that's like.
Cool! If the app works well in the field - measured target curves match projected results, no artifacts - then the Denon 4300h is the new Anthem MRX300: the AVR of choice for smart listeners, because it's the cheapest way to get top-tier room correction with all the current processing.

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Old 04-05-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Got it! Whew...crashed again afterwards. Just looking at results..😑
Really wish it showed XOs/sizes/trim levels. Sounds a little thin right now, gotta go in look around.
Here is my list of bugs/issues I found and posted in the other thread.

There's plenty of bugs , but it does work. Here is what I was able to discover so far.(android version)

-dialog boxes dissappear if the screen goes to sleep. Eg if you are in the middle of 8 point mic measurements, and you get an error about it being too loud. When you wake the screen the message is gone and you cannot do anything other than cancel and start over from the beginning, this happened to me twice on mic point 4, and I'm doing 11 channel measurements so it takes forever. A workaround is to extend your devices display timeout to 10 minutes or whatever the max is, and do not use other apps when doing any actions in the app.
-unable to set crossover or speaker size, you can set distance and level, but not crossover or "large" or "small".
-random crashes if you leave the app and go back, work around is to completely close the app and go back in.
-didn't save my calibration to device on first try, after having to restart the measurements multiple times, I finally got a successful completion, however when at the last step when naming the "curve" preset, the app crashed after asking for permission to access device storage, so I had to start over again😞2nd time I was good.
-unable to turn dynamic volume, eq or lfc post initial measurements, it would be nice to be able to set this as one of the configurable options.
-preset does not save when making changes and pushing directly to the AVR, you have the option to push to AVR at any point when editing an preset, however if you do not back all the way out at the end it doesn't save the config to your device, it does appear to update the AVR correctly though. My work around was to hit done at the end of any changes, then relaunch the preset and push to AVR last.

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Old 04-05-2017, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dan webster View Post
So sad that my flagship marantz 8802a cant use this. Strange that Marantz s current flagship piece of equipment cant somehow be updated to accept this.
Yeah, I'm pretty let down that I can't use it with last year's Marantz 6010. I'm feeling so left out. I hope they rectify that situation. I'm tempted to try the application regardless.
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Old 04-05-2017, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
Im trying to learn audyssey and I'm terrified of making my system sound worse by over tinkering. I ran the audyssey app and this is the graph that came back. Is the goal of audyssey to get that line as flat as possible? Would I be correct if I cut off all eq at 200 if I really wanted to bring out the high frequencies? I'm happy with the currently stored audyssey settings on my receiver, do I lose them forever if I push the new settings to the receiver? I know we are all learning, I appreciate any help.
Without first saving it, the existing cal will be lost when you push the one from the app. Using the app should generate a cal that sounds close to the existing one. The objective is a straight line, except Audyssey's house curve implements the famous BBC dip around 2kHz and a HF rolloff above 10k. Jump in with both feet.
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Old 04-05-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrjmc99 View Post
Here is my list of bugs/issues I found and posted in the other thread.

There's plenty of bugs , but it does work. Here is what I was able to discover so far.(android version)

-dialog boxes dissappear if the screen goes to sleep. Eg if you are in the middle of 8 point mic measurements, and you get an error about it being too loud. When you wake the screen the message is gone and you cannot do anything other than cancel and start over from the beginning, this happened to me twice on mic point 4, and I'm doing 11 channel measurements so it takes forever. A workaround is to extend your devices display timeout to 10 minutes or whatever the max is, and do not use other apps when doing any actions in the app.
-unable to set crossover or speaker size, you can set distance and level, but not crossover or "large" or "small".
-random crashes if you leave the app and go back, work around is to completely close the app and go back in.
-didn't save my calibration to device on first try, after having to restart the measurements multiple times, I finally got a successful completion, however when at the last step when naming the "curve" preset, the app crashed after asking for permission to access device storage, so I had to start over again😞2nd time I was good.
-unable to turn dynamic volume, eq or lfc post initial measurements, it would be nice to be able to set this as one of the configurable options.
-preset does not save when making changes and pushing directly to the AVR, you have the option to push to AVR at any point when editing an preset, however if you do not back all the way out at the end it doesn't save the config to your device, it does appear to update the AVR correctly though. My work around was to hit done at the end of any changes, then relaunch the preset and push to AVR last.

Sent from my STV100-2 using Tapatalk
Deq was on by default when mine finished, I shut that off IMMEDIATELY! Dv/LFC were already off, I don't turn that crap on either, so that just saved me the hassle.

Ok, I sent the results to the 4300, and it set my Mains to 40! No wonder it sounded thin, the minute I bump those to 80 I got my thump back.
All speakers were set to small, [email protected], tops 60! Doh!
Left surrounds and bumped tops to 80.
I now understand why when having Audyssey running my max volume(control) is +6.5...too many adds, I see them in my graphs...need room treatments....
I messed around a bit, but didn't save anything.
Sounds good, just messing around in different modes.
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Old 04-05-2017, 07:32 PM
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Why is Audyssey cutting EVERY graph I see like ~3db @2k? All my speakers have that same exact cut I see everyone else has.
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Old 04-05-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrjmc99 View Post
Here's an example, I haven't noticed any white graphs

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Ty Sir.
Gee, looks just like mine...ROFL.😆

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Old 04-05-2017, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Why is Audyssey cutting EVERY graph I see like ~3db @2k? All my speakers have that same exact cut I see everyone else has.
I just read about this, I'll be messing with that.

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Old 04-05-2017, 09:15 PM
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Should we expect to get different XO's using the app than the receiver? Trying to understand if it supposed to be measuring it the same way and if its applying the filters similarly. Since we can't lower the XO's without the benefit of the filter i'm not sure how i can use a 150Hz XO with my fronts with the app when i get a 80hz XO using the receiver. Anyone with a x6300 having the same issue?
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:30 AM
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For those with an Atmos speaker setup, can someone test if it's possible to deselect Audyssey for floor level speakers and retain Audyssey for the ceiling speakers. The reason for asking is that with the DDRC-88A, I already have Dirac Live! for the floor speakers - but no correction for the ceiling speakers. Was considering another DDRC-88A purchase, but with this Audyssey app, it will make the cabling a bit more tidier.
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Why is Audyssey cutting EVERY graph I see like ~3db @2k? All my speakers have that same exact cut I see everyone else has.
It's a result of "Midrange Compensation" which is on by default.
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
For those with an Atmos speaker setup, can someone test if it's possible to deselect Audyssey for floor level speakers and retain Audyssey for the ceiling speakers. The reason for asking is that with the DDRC-88A, I already have Dirac Live! for the floor speakers - but no correction for the ceiling speakers. Was considering another DDRC-88A purchase, but with this Audyssey app, it will make the cabling a bit more tidier.
You can change the frequency range it affects for speaker sets (fronts, center, surrounds, surround backs, top front, top rear). If you drag it all the way to the left it won't apply any changes to those speakers.
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:47 AM
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I have a 7.1.4 Atmos setup in a small room with SR6011 and Genelec speakers. I made a preset with the filter limited to the default Schröder frequency of 250 Hz. Sounds much better! More oomph and no disturbing side effects. Highly recommended.
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Old 04-06-2017, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
For those with an Atmos speaker setup, can someone test if it's possible to deselect Audyssey for floor level speakers and retain Audyssey for the ceiling speakers. The reason for asking is that with the DDRC-88A, I already have Dirac Live! for the floor speakers - but no correction for the ceiling speakers. Was considering another DDRC-88A purchase, but with this Audyssey app, it will make the cabling a bit more tidier.
You can do it in the Anthem receivers with ARC. ARC allows you to select what speakers and also allows you to specify what freq range you want to correct up to 5000 khz
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
In light of this, and also because I want 11-channel processing, I have decided to retire my Pioneer SC-85, or at least demote it. A Denon X4300h is taking its place, should be here Saturday, for sure the first thing I will do is use the new app and write up what that's like.
Is there any reason you're selecting this over a marantz?

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Old 04-06-2017, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Why is Audyssey cutting EVERY graph I see like ~3db @2k? All my speakers have that same exact cut I see everyone else has.
that's why I wish they implemented the SR7010. I won't be buying another marantz after this.

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Old 04-06-2017, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Why is Audyssey cutting EVERY graph I see like ~3db @2k? All my speakers have that same exact cut I see everyone else has.
Midrange Compensation

Midrange compensation is an intentional dip in the 2 kHz region where the vast majority of tweeter-to-midrange crossovers are. In that region the tweeter is at the low end of its range and the midrange at the high end of its range and the directivity of the speaker goes through major changes. We found that if that region is equalized to flat, the change in direct to reflected ratio that happens because of the directivity variations causes voices to sound harsh (among other things). So, we have this implemented in the Audyssey target curve. With MultEQ Pro you can choose to turn it off, but we don't recommend it. This notion was observed 40 years ago by BBC speaker designers in their studio monitors. They designed their speakers with this "BBC dip" intentionally in the speaker response.

Chris Kyriakakis (Audyssey co-founder)
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:19 AM
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What happens if a sub is calibrated with audyssey and starts to drop at 20hz but with the app you extend it to say 10hz? Does the app work that way and won't it damage the sub?

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Old 04-06-2017, 06:26 AM
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There is a reason as I found, and you can shut that cut off in the app.

I can understand the reasoning behind their decision of "Where do we stop" as a Sales tool to get folks to upgrade, but I'm not certain it wasn't a hardware issue like available memory/processing on 2015 units as well, as I obviously have no idea.
I DID know about the cutoff models, and it tipped me to NOT take advantage of lower prices on last Gen gear...so if that was the only reason, it worked here, and I'm sure on many others.
smurraybhm likes this.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:32 AM
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Thanks JD, as I said earlier, I found that googling last night, and the app lets you shutoff that compensation.
I kept reading "BBC Dip", and I had never heard of it until I read what you posted last night.
I'll play with it later to see/hear for myself.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Fabulous, after position 5 it threw an error and I have to start all over! Arrrrrrgh!
Same here. I was using an LG Tablet. I tried 3 or 4 times and never got to 8. I settled on just 3 positions so I could see how to interact with the software and graphs. I sent a crash report when it happened. I might try my phone tonight to see if it behaves better.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:39 AM
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I did too, I said pretty much what I said above and sent the log.
Worked fine 2nd time.
As stated earlier, probably should extend display on time, I just rubbed my finger on the side to keep it from timing out, and probably a good idea to shutdown all running apps, especially folks with only 2gb of Ram.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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