Yamaha RX-A3070 / A2070 / A1070 Aventage Owners' Thread - Page 123 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3661 of 5024 Old 07-25-2018, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphorios View Post
So to appease WAF i am only able to get slim speakers for surrounds and atmos. Do you think JBL B15 left and right surround are decent? Also for my heights I was debating going 4x polk owm5s.

The idea is to show her how great 5.1.4 can be. She is not an audiophile but after i completed my 3.1 setup with Chane A2.4s she loves them. She will only allow slim speaker budget options for surrounds until I can convince her of the beauty of atmos.

Any advice is greatly appreciated
Sensitivity is kind of low. I change from HSU HB1 mk2 to DIYSG Volt-10LX and it make my surround sound alive. Use the Atmos flat pack and it's pretty slim.
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post #3662 of 5024 Old 07-25-2018, 07:55 PM
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Does anyone here have an Apple TV 4K or PS4 Pro hooked up to their receiver? If so, do you have any issues with HDMI cut out? I am asking because I’m debating returning my Onkyo RZ820 for the 3070. I’ve read great things about the 3070 and think it’s worth switching for but wanted to get some feedback. Thanks.


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post #3663 of 5024 Old 07-25-2018, 08:09 PM
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Hi! I'm a RX-A1030 owner looking to upgrade to a newer unit that can support 11.1 processing for Atmos and DTS:X, like a 3070. I'd probably have to use a separate power amp to drive the ceiling speakers.

Before I jump to a 3070, I want to make sure I won't lose an unpublished capability of my 1030 that I cherish.

Though it's never mentioned in any of the manuals for the 1030 - which is a pre-MusicCast unit - my 1030 works as a DLNA "renderer," which means that I can have music "pushed" to it from a "control point" application, like Android BubbleUPnP, a $5 Google Play Store client for the free Windows BubbleUPnP Server. The Server program greatly enhances what you can do with conventional DLNA servers like Windows Media Player and the $20 Twonky server and the free Foobar2000 DLNA plugin fooUPnP. BubbleUPnP Server allows you to set up access to those servers over the net, letting the Android app and the Foobar plugin play music across the net (each of those can do many, many tricks).

Even more interestingly, BubbleUPnP Server finds players that can have media "pushed" to them - players that are called "renderers" in DLNA parlance - and if they have the capability, it can use them as "OpenHome" renderers that maintain their own copy of the playlist, and potentially as "gapless" OpenHome renderers, so when rendering a live concert that's been ripped from CD, it plays as seamlessly as the original disk in a disk player. This means no gaps in the applause between tracks, or in the music, like on Santana's Abraxis album, which has the music continue without pause between tracks.

And if you put your Android phone on your wifi network, it can then provide handheld control of play of your music from your computer by your Yamaha, complete with volume control - and can do text searches through the tags on the media files so you can find things that you only half-remember. (FooUPnP can search like that as well - it was written by the same programmer.)

My 1030 functions as a gapless OpenHome renderer, which is a sort of "Holy Grail" in the DLNA community - even though Yamaha nowhere even says it's a renderer at all!

So does anyone here use the free Windows BubbleUPnP Server - or is anyone here willing to download and install it - and see (1) if its "Renderers" tab shows your 3070 as a renderer on your network, (2) whether you can check the box to enable it as an OpenHome renderer or that box is greyed out, and (3) if you can check that box, can you check the box under that to enable gapless play?


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post #3664 of 5024 Old 07-25-2018, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TechSilver13 View Post
Does anyone here have an Apple TV 4K or PS4 Pro hooked up to their receiver? If so, do you have any issues with HDMI cut out? I am asking because I’m debating returning my Onkyo RZ820 for the 3070. I’ve read great things about the 3070 and think it’s worth switching for but wanted to get some feedback. Thanks.


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I have an Apple TV 4K connected to an A3070. There’s no issues with the image beyond the one already discussed about the option to match frame rate and hdr contents in the Apple TV 4K. That option causes a long delay to display the image. Apple TV is buggy at present. They plan to fix it on tvOs 12.


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post #3665 of 5024 Old 07-26-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I had the screen go black on my A3070 yesterday with a purple\green line running through the screen for a split second when listening to a stereo track. I switched sources and then switched back to the original source. I got audio back again and it took about 5 or 6 seconds for the video to reappear. I just upgraded to the latest firmware version in the last week, has not happened before. TV is just a cheap 1080p 50 inch connected via HDMI 1 output and the input device was my PC. Has anyone else experience a similar issue?
These new electronics get a little glitchy. I would say keep an eye on it but it probably just glitched out for a moment.....
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post #3666 of 5024 Old 07-26-2018, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by HiRes_PR View Post
I have an Apple TV 4K connected to an A3070. There’s no issues with the image beyond the one already discussed about the option to match frame rate and hdr contents in the Apple TV 4K. That option causes a long delay to display the image. Apple TV is buggy at present. They plan to fix it on tvOs 12.


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What TV do you have? Yeah I’m running the iOS 12 beta, seems I have to run the Apple TV in Dolby Atmos 30hz instead of Dolby Atmos 60hz to prevent video glitches.


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post #3667 of 5024 Old 07-26-2018, 05:28 PM
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What TV do you have? Yeah I’m running the iOS 12 beta, seems I have to run the Apple TV in Dolby Atmos 30hz instead of Dolby Atmos 60hz to prevent video glitches.


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Samsung 4K HDR 65 TV. No issues at all. I read the beta iOS 12 has a lot of issues as well. Is it true?


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post #3668 of 5024 Old 07-26-2018, 05:30 PM
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Samsung 4K HDR 65 TV. No issues at all. I read the beta iOS 12 has a lot of issues as well. Is it true?


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The only issues I have are a few video glitches here and there. Not real sure what’s causing it, it could be the beta but I don’t really know since I’ve had the beta since I bought it.


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post #3669 of 5024 Old 07-27-2018, 04:20 PM
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RX-A1070 Won't Power On

I purchased a RX-A1040 back in March 2018 from Crutchfield. Everything worked perfectly until about a week ago. I tried to turn on the receiver one morning and it wouldn't power on with the remote or by pressing the Main power button on the front. I can see an LED flashing near the Main power button but it will not power on. I unhooked everything from the receiver and tried again but it still wouldn't power on. I read online that it's gone into "Protection Mode". I've tried the reset method of holding down the "Info" and "Tone Control" while pressing the Main power button. I can hear relays clicking inside the unit when I reset it this way but it still won't power on.

Any ideas? I really don't want to have to send this thing in for "repairs". I've read horror stories online.
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post #3670 of 5024 Old 07-27-2018, 07:52 PM
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Are the "Presence" Outputs the Atmos/DTS:X outputs?

I'm looking at the 3070 to do 7.2.4, using an old pre-HDMI 5.1 Yamaha AVR's power amp to drive the four ceiling speakers.

But from looking both at the back panel images and paging through the entire users manual (downloaded from Yamaha's site) I can't find any explicit statement of which are the overhead channel outputs. My best guess is that I would use the "presence channel" outputs, but I'd think they'd say so explicitly!

UPDATE: I read the things earlier in this thread and realized what I'd downloaded was actually the Quick Start Guide. The manual does address this, and yes, it is the Presence jacks I'll use for this, telling the 3070 that I want it to send those jacks those channels.

PS I put the same question directly to Yamaha's support techs through their website that I posted here two days ago, and got a response from a tech there who actually did the experiment I proposed: he downloaded the free BubbleUPnP Server and confirmed that the "secret feature" I found in my 1030 is still present in their current models.
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post #3671 of 5024 Old 07-28-2018, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Nunyabinis View Post
I purchased a RX-A1040 back in March 2018 from Crutchfield. Everything worked perfectly until about a week ago. I tried to turn on the receiver one morning and it wouldn't power on with the remote or by pressing the Main power button on the front. I can see an LED flashing near the Main power button but it will not power on. I unhooked everything from the receiver and tried again but it still wouldn't power on. I read online that it's gone into "Protection Mode". I've tried the reset method of holding down the "Info" and "Tone Control" while pressing the Main power button. I can hear relays clicking inside the unit when I reset it this way but it still won't power on.

Any ideas? I really don't want to have to send this thing in for "repairs". I've read horror stories online.
Try doing the ADVANCED SETUP - INITIALIZE - ALL and if still no joy .... warranty repair.
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post #3672 of 5024 Old 07-28-2018, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunyabinis View Post
I purchased a RX-A1040 back in March 2018 from Crutchfield. Everything worked perfectly until about a week ago. I tried to turn on the receiver one morning and it wouldn't power on with the remote or by pressing the Main power button on the front. I can see an LED flashing near the Main power button but it will not power on. I unhooked everything from the receiver and tried again but it still wouldn't power on. I read online that it's gone into "Protection Mode". I've tried the reset method of holding down the "Info" and "Tone Control" while pressing the Main power button. I can hear relays clicking inside the unit when I reset it this way but it still won't power on.

Any ideas? I really don't want to have to send this thing in for "repairs". I've read horror stories online.
Make sure none of your speaker wires are touching each other in the back or on a speaker at the terminals. If one shorts, it would likely go into protection mode and stay there until the short is corrected.

Click THEATER (Updated: May-22-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 10-13-19)
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post #3673 of 5024 Old 07-28-2018, 11:24 AM
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Hello all,
I recently bought a NEW Yamaha RX-A2070 receiver (not refurbished) . It is replacing a 22yr old Audio receiver that I ran with a 5.1 setup. I'm basically new to this level of AV receiver, so I'm reading as much as possible on this thread and others, following the user manual, following all the setup with YPAO at 1 point and with 8 points etc...
On page 119 of this thread SUperEd007 posted a question: "is anyone else experiencing small sound from this AVR". Following the thread I believe SuperEd007 is upgrading further with amps. At this time I don't plan to go down that path, as I expected a $1500.00 receiver to blow away my old 22yr old receiver. Overall it does, in every way but one, the volume output is nowhere close.
I believe I am also experiencing a "small sound" output from this receiver. To be specific, from -80.0dB to -61.5dB I can hear no sound output while sitting just 15ft from the front speakers or center channel speaker. At -55db volume you can just start making out people speaking in a movies/TV/Xbox games/other inputs, but nobody would watch/listen at this low of sound output (whispers). "Normal" listening levels don't start until around -38.0db volume control if the house is quiet. Daily listening is ~-32.0dB. Listening to action movies doesn't really start until around -17dB to -10dB volume setting to get the full "effect".

Hope this doesn't sound dumb, but at HALF volume (volume knob position) shouldn't this level of AVR be "blowing out my windows" in sound/volume output? It just seems odd to me that I'm having to drive the volume control up this much to get normal movie output levels. Hands down the Yamaha receiver is clearer in sound at all volume levels than my old Audio receiver, but I can drive the volume to the full +16db and not have to leave the room.....only did it for a couple seconds as a test, I didn't leave it there long, and have not repeated it as I heard what I needed the first time. If I ran my old receiver to full volume like that it would have been beyond tolerable. At 3/4 volume the old receiver was extremely loud with the exact same 5.1 speakers that I'm using now. Last note, I tried to add some new Klipsch surround speakers to the system to see if my speakers are the issue and it made no difference.

To try and cut this a bit shorter, please note I've tried every preset DSP setting, I've tried adjusting Tone control, YPAO on/off, Adaptive DRC Auto/off, Enhancer on/off, Turned up dialog DTS lift etc... Nothing seems to make big changes.

Do I have a defective amp within the receiver, or do others typically run their RX-A2070 receivers at these levels to get the reasonable volume?

I've listed all my components in my profile that are connected to this Yamaha. The next step is upgrading speakers.....provided I don't find an issue with this receiver. Thanks for any feedback on this volume "issue".

Off Road Driver; Yamaha RX-A2070, Samsung 4k UN65JS850DFXZA, Cisco "Cox Cable" 4742HDC PROD, XBOX ONE 1540, Wirelogic Sapphire HDMI H.S.w/Ethernet cables, JBL HP88F Front, JBL G Movies Center & Surround rear L/R (next to be replaced), KLH SW-12 woofer, Klipsch R-14s
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post #3674 of 5024 Old 07-28-2018, 11:58 AM
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please be aware of the fact SPL is a logarithmic unit.
which means: a 10dB step is a ten-time power in/decrease!
if we assume the "nominal power" (let's say 150W) being delivered at 0dB means, -10dB are 1/10 = 15W, -20dB = 1.5W, -30dB = 150mW, -40dB = 15mW

with an old analog an mechanical potentiometer as volume control it's really hard to accomplish this logarithmic curve, especially for all channels simultaneously. So in the old days a "sharper" curve has been used. In our days all this stuff is done with ICs and even on low budget it's possible to achieve the correct curve.

the one and only question is: do you hear any distortions before the you reach the desired sound pressure level?
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post #3675 of 5024 Old 07-28-2018, 02:09 PM
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Hello all,
I recently bought a NEW Yamaha RX-A2070 receiver (not refurbished) . It is replacing a 22yr old Audio receiver that I ran with a 5.1 setup.
Did this receiver have volume in decibels or something else?

Quote:
Overall it does, in every way but one, the volume output is nowhere close.
Meaningless. You'd have to measure the full maximum volume with a sound pressure meter on both receivers to see if the output is "nowhere close." A decibel based volume control is not based on "half output at half the increments" as you seem to imply. Every 3dB moved upward is a doubling of power output. Therefore you won't even come CLOSE to the rated output until you're almost to 0dB (some go beyond 0 to allow for low input signals, but distortion begins to increase). To give you an idea, most of my movies on my Yamaha receiver are played back between 0dB (newer "low volume" Marvel) and -15dB (older movies) with most of them around -10dB to -6dB. Where they end up on the scale, though is ALSO a function of how efficient your speakers are, how big your room is and how far you sit away in the room AND also the auto-setup program (i.e. the individual speaker volume adjustments are not changed by the primary scale so if you go adjusting them all, you might end up at a different overall setting by a few dB depending.

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I believe I am also experiencing a "small sound" output from this receiver. To be specific, from -80.0dB to -61.5dB I can hear no sound output
while sitting just 15ft from the front speakers or center channel speaker.
Let's put this into perspective for you. Let's just say your overall sound output with pink noise at 0dB in the room turns out to be 110dB (pretty darn loud). It might be 105 or even 100 depending on the speakers, room, etc. But just suppose it's 110dB in the room (at this output, you'd start getting hearing damage in less than a half hour if it was constant). An average room's ambient noise level is typically anywhere from 35dB on the extremely quiet side (most consumer sound meters only read to ~50dB on the bottom end; you'd need something a little better to even find out what your room is at), but at a more typical 55dB, your speakers are fighting room noise to be heard. You can hear maybe 15-20dB into a typical noise floor on average (some frequencies are more sensitive than others and I've heard of supposedly proven claims into the -40dB range, but this is barely audible and some pretty good hearing). Let's say you can reliably hear a signal 15dB into the noise floor. That would mean you wouldn't be able to hear a sound until it's at LEAST 40dB loud in the room. So on the volume dial for that 110dB figure, that would mean it would become audible right around -70dB. If your maximum volume output is 105dB instead of 110dB pink noise (my own receiver maxed out at the 0dB setting at 105dB with my 5 speaker setup without the sub being on) and your room is 60dB average noise level instead of 55dB you would hear it at -60dB on the dial. If you can only hear 10dB reliably into the noise floor, it would be -55dB, etc. Thus, your -61.5dB figure sounds completely believable to me (I honestly don't think I've ever tried to see where I could hear to and it would probably matter whether it was pink noise or something else an certainly whether it's just one channel or ALL the channels).

If I had to "guess" at your maximum output volume, I'd say it's around 105dB and that's completely normal for a relatively low-powered receiver (if you need more power of any substance you need power amps in the 200-600 watt range as each doubling of power only gives you an extra 3dB. Thus a 100 watt output is 3dB higher than a 50 watt output which is 3dB higher than 25 watt output, etc. etc. and so a 200-watt per channel amp will only play 6dB louder on average than a 50 watt amplifier. This is also why speaker efficiency is important as they are ranted in dB per 1 watt input measured at 1 meter from the speaker. A 90dB (fairly efficient, but not as much as horns or as bad as some more esoteric and/or smaller speakers) rated speaker would need close to 50 watts to achieve 110dB at a mere 1 meter from the speaker (the speaker might be 6dB lower 15 feet away and thus you'd need 150 watts. Most receivers when driving a full complement of 5-7 or even 9-11 speakers these days put out maybe 50-60 watts per channel maximum. Most bookshelf speaker are in the 86-88dB rated range (for a sub/sat system) and so they'd top out closer to 105dB at one meter and thus maybe 102dB from two speakers 10-15 feet away (if all speakers are playing the same thing, they typically add 3dB to the total room level per speaker, but this can vary based on position in the room, etc.). I think my PSB B15s are rated around 89dB and I sit 9 feet away and I hit 105dB for two speakers in practice at 0dB.

Now the other thing is manufacturers more or less LIE in their specs about their receiver's capabilities. Newer receivers with MORE channels are more than likely to have less power per channel when all are active than an older receiver with fewer channels. But the manual will tell you the maximum power rated for that channel playing alone instead. For example, the 13-channel Denon AVRX8500H is rated at 150 watts per channel into 8 ohms! Wow! Yet the power supply is only rated to 900 watts maximum and these things aren't exactly 100% efficient either. 13 x 150 = 1950 watts! It's MAGIC! If the receiver were 100% efficient and didn't ANY power for video switching, menus, decoding, etc., it'd still top out at a maximum of 69 watts per channel if they were all playing at once at full volume. In reality, it's probably closer to 30-40 watts. Mind you that's the 8 ohm rating. It gets even dicier at 4 ohms, etc., but that's another story and this is just to give you a basic idea of the marketing BS involved.

My older Yamaha is rated for 115 watts per channel and it has 7 channels available. It has a maximum power consumption of 400 watts. It's not going to get 115 watts running full tilt (probably more like 25 watts). But you wouldn't guess that looking at the manual without noticing the power supply rating.

Quote:
At -55db volume you can just start making out people speaking in a movies/TV/Xbox games/other inputs, but nobody would watch/listen at this low of sound output (whispers). "Normal" listening levels don't start until around -38.0db volume control if the house is quiet. Daily listening is ~-32.0dB. Listening to action movies doesn't really start until around -17dB to -10dB volume setting to get the full "effect".

Hope this doesn't sound dumb, but at HALF volume (volume knob position) shouldn't this level of AVR be "blowing out my windows" in sound/volume output?
Volume is pretty much logarithmic based due to how we hear (3dB doesn't sound "that much" louder, but it's ACTUALLY twice the output in room pressure and thus requires twice as much power to achieve. Humans generally hear every 10dB as a doubling of "perceived" volume output and thus you need around 10x the power to get something to "sound" twice as loud.

I hope this clear things up a bit.

Click THEATER (Updated: May-22-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 10-13-19)
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post #3676 of 5024 Old 07-28-2018, 05:53 PM
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I have an old Yamaha HTR-5490 (6.1 80W/channel) with a volume knob that reads (digitally) in negative dB. I always assumed this represents an attenuation value compared to max (zero) output. Of course the volume I hear when placing my ear 1m away from a speaker has to do with several factors (cable lengths, crossover losses, speaker sensitivity, other receiver settings). All that said, when I listen to music using 6 channel stereo, I rarely go above -40dB. -30dB is cranked pretty good. For movies, it varies with the source material. But even then I range from -50dB to -30dB.

So yeah, if I were to upgrade to one of these higher wattage models, all things being equal speaker and cable wise, I would be concerned if -40dB didn't sound very loud. Maybe it's a psychological thing but I generally expect big things to start happening when the volume knob approaches the halfway mark.

I just looked at my A-S301 which I use for computer playback. When Winamp is at 100% volume I consider it pretty well "cranked". The volume knob (analog) is more or less permanently set at 11:00.

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post #3677 of 5024 Old 07-29-2018, 02:16 AM
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Did this receiver have volume in decibels or something else?



Meaningless. You'd have to measure the full maximum volume with a sound pressure meter on both receivers to see if the output is "nowhere close." A decibel based volume control is not based on "half output at half the increments" as you seem to imply. Every 3dB moved upward is a doubling of power output. Therefore you won't even come CLOSE to the rated output until you're almost to 0dB (some go beyond 0 to allow for low input signals, but distortion begins to increase). To give you an idea, most of my movies on my Yamaha receiver are played back between 0dB (newer "low volume" Marvel) and -15dB (older movies) with most of them around -10dB to -6dB. Where they end up on the scale, though is ALSO a function of how efficient your speakers are, how big your room is and how far you sit away in the room AND also the auto-setup program (i.e. the individual speaker volume adjustments are not changed by the primary scale so if you go adjusting them all, you might end up at a different overall setting by a few dB depending.



Let's put this into perspective for you. Let's just say your overall sound output with pink noise at 0dB in the room turns out to be 110dB (pretty darn loud). It might be 105 or even 100 depending on the speakers, room, etc. But just suppose it's 110dB in the room (at this output, you'd start getting hearing damage in less than a half hour if it was constant). An average room's ambient noise level is typically anywhere from 35dB on the extremely quiet side (most consumer sound meters only read to ~50dB on the bottom end; you'd need something a little better to even find out what your room is at), but at a more typical 55dB, your speakers are fighting room noise to be heard. You can hear maybe 15-20dB into a typical noise floor on average (some frequencies are more sensitive than others and I've heard of supposedly proven claims into the -40dB range, but this is barely audible and some pretty good hearing). Let's say you can reliably hear a signal 15dB into the noise floor. That would mean you wouldn't be able to hear a sound until it's at LEAST 40dB loud in the room. So on the volume dial for that 110dB figure, that would mean it would become audible right around -70dB. If your maximum volume output is 105dB instead of 110dB pink noise (my own receiver maxed out at the 0dB setting at 105dB with my 5 speaker setup without the sub being on) and your room is 60dB average noise level instead of 55dB you would hear it at -60dB on the dial. If you can only hear 10dB reliably into the noise floor, it would be -55dB, etc. Thus, your -61.5dB figure sounds completely believable to me (I honestly don't think I've ever tried to see where I could hear to and it would probably matter whether it was pink noise or something else an certainly whether it's just one channel or ALL the channels).

If I had to "guess" at your maximum output volume, I'd say it's around 105dB and that's completely normal for a relatively low-powered receiver (if you need more power of any substance you need power amps in the 200-600 watt range as each doubling of power only gives you an extra 3dB. Thus a 100 watt output is 3dB higher than a 50 watt output which is 3dB higher than 25 watt output, etc. etc. and so a 200-watt per channel amp will only play 6dB louder on average than a 50 watt amplifier. This is also why speaker efficiency is important as they are ranted in dB per 1 watt input measured at 1 meter from the speaker. A 90dB (fairly efficient, but not as much as horns or as bad as some more esoteric and/or smaller speakers) rated speaker would need close to 50 watts to achieve 110dB at a mere 1 meter from the speaker (the speaker might be 6dB lower 15 feet away and thus you'd need 150 watts. Most receivers when driving a full complement of 5-7 or even 9-11 speakers these days put out maybe 50-60 watts per channel maximum. Most bookshelf speaker are in the 86-88dB rated range (for a sub/sat system) and so they'd top out closer to 105dB at one meter and thus maybe 102dB from two speakers 10-15 feet away (if all speakers are playing the same thing, they typically add 3dB to the total room level per speaker, but this can vary based on position in the room, etc.). I think my PSB B15s are rated around 89dB and I sit 9 feet away and I hit 105dB for two speakers in practice at 0dB.

Now the other thing is manufacturers more or less LIE in their specs about their receiver's capabilities. Newer receivers with MORE channels are more than likely to have less power per channel when all are active than an older receiver with fewer channels. But the manual will tell you the maximum power rated for that channel playing alone instead. For example, the 13-channel Denon AVRX8500H is rated at 150 watts per channel into 8 ohms! Wow! Yet the power supply is only rated to 900 watts maximum and these things aren't exactly 100% efficient either. 13 x 150 = 1950 watts! It's MAGIC! If the receiver were 100% efficient and didn't ANY power for video switching, menus, decoding, etc., it'd still top out at a maximum of 69 watts per channel if they were all playing at once at full volume. In reality, it's probably closer to 30-40 watts. Mind you that's the 8 ohm rating. It gets even dicier at 4 ohms, etc., but that's another story and this is just to give you a basic idea of the marketing BS involved.

My older Yamaha is rated for 115 watts per channel and it has 7 channels available. It has a maximum power consumption of 400 watts. It's not going to get 115 watts running full tilt (probably more like 25 watts). But you wouldn't guess that looking at the manual without noticing the power supply rating.



Volume is pretty much logarithmic based due to how we hear (3dB doesn't sound "that much" louder, but it's ACTUALLY twice the output in room pressure and thus requires twice as much power to achieve. Humans generally hear every 10dB as a doubling of "perceived" volume output and thus you need around 10x the power to get something to "sound" twice as loud.

I hope this clear things up a bit.
First, thank you all for the answers, greatly appreciated.

Mickey Mouse - Understood and clear. My old 5.1 pro-logic receiver is simply like you noted. Turn the volume knob/potentiometer and it starts getting loud quickly and very loud after the 1/2 volume knob position. Hence the references and comparisons between the two receivers at 1/2 volume or 1/2 the movement of the volume knob. The old analog receiver is louder to the ear at 1/2 volume knob position than the new Yamaha at 1/2 volume knob. By no means does the old receiver sound better/clearer at any loud, to the ear, volume. That is why I ended with "issue" in quotes, as I'm really asking or investigating if playing the new RX-A2070 receivers at ~3/4 volume knob position is abnormal as compared to other users on this thread playing the same receiver models.
It was concerning as I would have never constantly played my old receiver at 3/4 volume knob position.... 1st because it would be to loud, but 2nd I would have "feared" damaging the internal amps. It lasted 22+ years, and is still fully operational to this day so obviously I didn't "overdrive" it too much.
the one and only question is: do you hear any distortions before the you reach the desired sound pressure level? Simple answer without the current access to measuring equipment.....It sounds very clear, to the ear, and I'm overall happy with it. Although I'm still working with the dialog controls, as they do appear quiet in comparison to the rest of the sound until I reach the "movie levels" of -17db to -7db volume control range.

Magnum X - thanks for the time you put into the reply - Did this receiver have volume in decibels or something else? My old receiver's only volume indication was the notch in the volume knob, hence the comparisons of 1/2 volume (meaning knob or indicator) The old unit had no display of any type related to volume. If I recall correctly, volume could be displayed on the TV, but on it's own TV input, so I never used it as I was watching what I was listening too....movie, tv, gaming, etc...

Meaningless: "volume output is nowhere close" Fair enough, I fully agree it would need to be measured to be proven. I understand now about 1/2 volume knob not being 1/2 volume on this unit. Your comment and Mickey Mouse's message help alleviate my concern about playing the Yamaha receiver at "high" volume knob positions levels. I did watch the Yamaha video about 0db and -xx.xdB volume display. Definitely not what I was use to, hence the concern about knob position not outputting what I was expecting.
I greatly appreciate you stating the dB ranges you use for your movie watching. My -dB ranges for movie watching are not too far off from your listings, so that helps reduce/eliminate my concerns of any "issues" with this receiver. My limiting factor isn't the receiver, but NEIGHBORS... (trying to keep it friendly). The volume is plenty loud (and still clear) at the level we are using, so I won't often be above the 0db level. Understood on the rest of your comments on adjusting individual speakers. I don't adjust the individual speakers, but the "dialog controls" through the APP. Tone control, Subwoofer Trim, Dialogue level, DTS Dialogue Control, Dialog Lift Again, subjective, but until it sounds good to the ear.
The rest of your information sure sparks the interest in continuing to learn more about all of this. Sounds like you dug deep on learning this information.

M7C - Thank you for your input. Interesting on your -40dB listening level, too quiet for this house/speakers/output. -30 is reasonable for this unit if not watching movies. I definitely see/hear differences in the volume control when using the cable box Vs the Xbox Vs the ARC TV "input". But each of those switch the DSP settings also. The "loudest" sound to the ear with the lowest -db reading on the receiver came when I played a You Tube 4k video on the TV through the ARC input. I found that interesting. For now I'm going to chalk this up to learning a new receiver, as it is very obvious my old receiver was just that....OLD. I will be upgrading my center and rear surround speakers soon. Come fall/winter I'll start into the multi room setup, at which time speaker wires will be upgraded. My HDMI are fairly new, listed as High Speed and 4k rated for what that's worth when reading about HDMI cables. The interesting HDMI cable will be to the 2nd room(s). More to learn.

Getting long winded now, so again thanks, and I'll try to keep it more focused moving forward. Now I'm very interested in getting some measurements.

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post #3678 of 5024 Old 07-29-2018, 02:32 AM
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Sorry, used the wrong reply.

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post #3679 of 5024 Old 07-29-2018, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by M7C View Post
I have an old Yamaha HTR-5490 (6.1 80W/channel) with a volume knob that reads (digitally) in negative dB. I always assumed this represents an attenuation value compared to max (zero) output. Of course the volume I hear when placing my ear 1m away from a speaker has to do with several factors (cable lengths, crossover losses, speaker sensitivity, other receiver settings). All that said, when I listen to music using 6 channel stereo, I rarely go above -40dB. -30dB is cranked pretty good. For movies, it varies with the source material. But even then I range from -50dB to -30dB.

So yeah, if I were to upgrade to one of these higher wattage models, all things being equal speaker and cable wise, I would be concerned if -40dB didn't sound very loud. Maybe it's a psychological thing but I generally expect big things to start happening when the volume knob approaches the halfway mark.

I just looked at my A-S301 which I use for computer playback. When Winamp is at 100% volume I consider it pretty well "cranked". The volume knob (analog) is more or less permanently set at 11:00.

Yes, it does represent attenuation. But what setting sounds "loud enough" depends on both how much amplification you have, the efficiency of the speakers, the size of the room and what you consider "loud" to be. With the same speaker layout, a newer receiver "should" be in the same range.

Because of deceptive advertising, using more channels could result in considerably less power per channel than you might expect (i.e. Newer doesn't have to mean more power, just newer/more features).

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post #3680 of 5024 Old 07-29-2018, 04:59 AM
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Offrddrver - As I recall, volume controls of yore used to be tapered in that the rate of change of the volume would be much greater earlier in their rotation than later. This would result in the experience you were having with your old receiver. The new Yamaha receivers (anyway) for the past 25 years or so at least don't have that taper. They operate more linearly and that is why you have to turn the knob further to increase the volume.


All of the Yamaha receivers that I've owned for the past 25 years have behaved this way. The level settings on all of mine generally run from the -20dB to -36dB range, depending on source and just how loud I want to listen to it.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #3681 of 5024 Old 07-29-2018, 07:22 PM
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Hey guys, I have a question on my receiver. Why does my bass turn wayy down when I turn on party mode?

In the regular setting my bass is pretty loud and can potentially shake the room. At the same volume in party mode the bass almost disappears. I had to check the bass to make sure it was still there. How do I fix this?

Also does anyone know how to correctly set the settings on the subwoofer in the avr. I have all the speakers small running at 80 hertz as someone suggested. I am unsure where and what to set the subwoofer too? I found a few settings and don’t know where I should place it. I just bought a Speedwoofer 10s and is currently messing with it.

Current set up. Adventage 3070, 5.4 chane, 2.4 chane, 1.4 chane, 4x Monoprice Dolby speakers, Speedwoofer
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post #3682 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray559527 View Post
Hey guys, I have a question on my receiver. Why does my bass turn wayy down when I turn on party mode?

In the regular setting my bass is pretty loud and can potentially shake the room. At the same volume in party mode the bass almost disappears. I had to check the bass to make sure it was still there. How do I fix this?

Also does anyone know how to correctly set the settings on the subwoofer in the avr. I have all the speakers small running at 80 hertz as someone suggested. I am unsure where and what to set the subwoofer too? I found a few settings and don’t know where I should place it. I just bought a Speedwoofer 10s and is currently messing with it.

Current set up. Adventage 3070, 5.4 chane, 2.4 chane, 1.4 chane, 4x Monoprice Dolby speakers, Speedwoofer
I can't help you with party mode as I've never used it, but have you run YPAO? If so, what does it set the levels to for your main speakers and subwoofer? I usually adjust the subwoofer's level control (on it) until I get the YPAO setting for the subwoofer to be at or close to zero.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #3683 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 09:39 AM
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Yamaha extra bass, friend or foe?

I have a Yamaha rxa3070 with the main channels set to large as I am running bp2000,s and they sound better full range, my pair of subwoofers aka turbo sound 18" sound reinforcement speakers are fed from the subwoofer pre out in order to get bass sent to them in two channel music listening I have to enable extra bass feature ,but question is just exactly what bass is being fed to them, what crossover frequency, because with front set to large you can't set cover for subs.
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post #3684 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kickin View Post
I have a Yamaha rxa3070 with the main channels set to large as I am running bp2000,s and they sound better full range, my pair of subwoofers aka turbo sound 18" sound reinforcement speakers are fed from the subwoofer pre out in order to get bass sent to them in two channel music listening I have to enable extra bass feature ,but question is just exactly what bass is being fed to them, what crossover frequency, because with front set to large you can't set cover for subs.
1. Suggest you give the SMALL/80Hz setting another go for awhile with the BP2000s. Dedicated sub(s) can generally do a better job of lower frequency production than will subs built in to speakers.
2. Bass from any speakers set to SMALL below their crossover is passed to the sub as well as the LFE (ie. 0.1 in DD/DTS 5.1/7.1).
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post #3685 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 10:53 AM
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within the newer Yamaha AVRs the "Extra Bass" function has changed compared to the older ones.
now Extra Bass works without a subwoofer as well.
if you have Main speakers set to large, one or two subwoofers and enable "Extra-Bass", the bass (cross over approximately 80Hz) of the front speakers is send to the subwoofer(s) as well (same as before), BUT:
a high pass filter kicks in, crossover 50Hz!!!
so with Extra Bass you get an extra "kick" between 50 and 80Hz but below 50Hz you have less bass than without it.

edit: sorry, this is wrong for front = large (i never used this setting), please see my measurements post

Last edited by Mickey Mouse; 07-30-2018 at 01:15 PM.
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post #3686 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
within the newer Yamaha AVRs the "Extra Bass" function has changed compared to the older ones.
now Extra Bass works without a subwoofer as well.
if you have Main speakers set to large, one or two subwoofers and enable "Extra-Bass", the bass (cross over approximately 80Hz) of the front speakers is send to the subwoofer(s) as well (same as before), BUT:
a high pass filter kicks in, crossover 50Hz!!!
so with Extra Bass you get an extra "kick" between 50 and 80Hz but below 50Hz you have less bass than without it.
I don't think I understand why enabling extra-bass would result in less bass if all it does is direct the bass between 50Hz and 80Hz from the front speakers to the subwoofer(s) as well.


Can you explain please?

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #3687 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 11:16 AM
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I recently purchased the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070 AV Receiver and I don't know where to start to learn how to set it up. Other than the manual that came with it, are there any other books, articles, or online classes that can teach me the very basics and then build my system up as I become more proficient with the AVR. My wife said that I am over my head. I don't think I am. I just want something more organized to learn how to use it. The manual is not like a novel that you can go from chapter to chapter to learn how to use it. I have been reading this forum for quite some time and there are references to things that are greek to me. Do they make a "Book for Dummies" that are set up for someone like me. I grew up in an era that the first thing we did when we bought something was to throw away the User's Manual. If I did this, I would never figure out how to set it up.
Any help or references that are out there that would help and give the definitions to the many words and references.

Thanks a bunch.
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post #3688 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
within the newer Yamaha AVRs the "Extra Bass" function has changed compared to the older ones.
now Extra Bass works without a subwoofer as well.
if you have Main speakers set to large, one or two subwoofers and enable "Extra-Bass", the bass (cross over approximately 80Hz) of the front speakers is send to the subwoofer(s) as well (same as before), BUT:
a high pass filter kicks in, crossover 50Hz!!!
so with Extra Bass you get an extra "kick" between 50 and 80Hz but below 50Hz you have less bass than without it.
I wish they would go back to the older version that allowed LFE output choices of Subwoofer, Main Speakers, or Both Subwoofer&Mains. If you select Both, you can still make adjustments and tame down any excessive bass when doing this, but the other way there's just going to be a lack of low frequencies from the mains, and nothing you can do to correct that. If you set DT powered mains to small instead of large, it's a total waste as the builtin low frequency drivers will output virtually zilch. At least this has been my experience with my Z11 and DT BP7000SC's.

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Originally Posted by jdhelaman View Post
I recently purchased the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070 AV Receiver and I don't know where to start to learn how to set it up. Other than the manual that came with it, are there any other books, articles, or online classes that can teach me the very basics and then build my system up as I become more proficient with the AVR. My wife said that I am over my head. I don't think I am. I just want something more organized to learn how to use it. The manual is not like a novel that you can go from chapter to chapter to learn how to use it. I have been reading this forum for quite some time and there are references to things that are greek to me. Do they make a "Book for Dummies" that are set up for someone like me. I grew up in an era that the first thing we did when we bought something was to throw away the User's Manual. If I did this, I would never figure out how to set it up.

Any help or references that are out there that would help and give the definitions to the many words and references.



Thanks a bunch.


You should be able to download the manual from their website. The manual may be on the disc that it comes with as well.


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post #3690 of 5024 Old 07-30-2018, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhelaman View Post
I recently purchased the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070 AV Receiver and I don't know where to start to learn how to set it up. Other than the manual that came with it, are there any other books, articles, or online classes that can teach me the very basics and then build my system up as I become more proficient with the AVR. My wife said that I am over my head. I don't think I am. I just want something more organized to learn how to use it. The manual is not like a novel that you can go from chapter to chapter to learn how to use it. I have been reading this forum for quite some time and there are references to things that are greek to me. Do they make a "Book for Dummies" that are set up for someone like me. I grew up in an era that the first thing we did when we bought something was to throw away the User's Manual. If I did this, I would never figure out how to set it up.
Any help or references that are out there that would help and give the definitions to the many words and references.

Thanks a bunch.
Is something like this what you are looking for? While not specifically about your AVR, it does define a lot of the terms and covers most of the basics of home theater setup.

Setting Up Your Home Theater Audio 101



For another great, in-depth article that is well worth the read, see @mthomas47 's Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences. Despite the title, it covers much more than just bass a subwoofers.
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