*Official* Marantz 2017 NR1508/1608, SR5012/6012/7012 owner's thread - Page 139 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4141 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 01:33 AM
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I'd also like to point out that my "extended" graphic showing content at 10 Hz compared to 20Hz needs to be about, *gulp*, 25 dB louder in order to be deemed "the same level" to the ear at threshold level, because this is where we know human hearing plummets, might actually be much worse. Notice how on the other end of the hearing range the people who made the ISO chart use a dotted line showing their interpolated limited data suggests at 17kHz and above it suddenly spikes upward, for example. It might be just like that in the lows too.

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post #4142 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 03:40 AM
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Tactile response is the reason for sub-20Hz sound, not necessarily hearing it (pressure change, punch you in the gut action, etc.) Why else have a 16Hz 32' organ stop if it's not considered useful? A lot of money for 'nothing'.

But then some people on earth would argue until the end of time because they can't be wrong no matter what and will keep posting the same crap endlessly until everyone either admits defeat or shuts up. That's when I discovered a little feature I recommend on here called ignore. Sadly, quoting isn't ignored....
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post #4143 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
There's god awfully loud (~108dBSPL on your curve) content at 20 Hz at that exact same moment yet you are so sure it is the 97dBSPL at 10Hz content which you are keying on? Interesting.

According to my enhanced via interpolation ISO226:2003 graph along with its threshold for human hearing graph shown as the bottom curve, it looks like under ideal laboratory conditions, if everyone holds their breath and there is no other simultaneous content to mask it, that maybe, just maybe, some keen eared listeners might be able to just barely hear that 97dBSPL 10Hz content. If it were in complete isolation. Add 10 dB louder simultaneous content an octave higher, like in your movie scene, and masking takes over.


Source of original graphic of the 2003 International Standards Organization without my added extension to 10Hz, shown in green above: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/ISO226LoudnessCurves.gif
Hmm, maybe they, ISO, didn't think to measure what happens below 20Hz themselves because those frequencies were unknown to science way back in the olden times of 2003? [joke]


---


Another thing people who claim "I can hear and appreciate 10Hz content in my movies played at reference level without adding additional EQ to artificially boost its level there" need to prove is that the difference they hear during a blind test isn't simply the fact that the double in size subwoofer cone excursion they are experiencing, along with its added distortion of the meaningful 20Hz content, along with the added taxation they are needlessly placing on their sub's amp [Hmm. . . clipping?]aren't what they are actually hearing as the "difference".

What are you on about? I said nothing about 10 Hz being as audible as 20 Hz.

You ask me to read your graph, yet you can't read mine? My subs are high-passed at 17 Hz, so you are arguing that I can't hear sound half an octave below my high pass.

I said nothing about "hearing" below 20 Hz, it's about "feeling". When there is thunder, one feels it. One feels the cannons, as well as hears them, in Master and Commander. There are plenty of movies with intended sub 20 Hz content. I can go on and on. BTW, I listened to your YouTube video with my back to the screen, and told my son when the sound stopped. The sound cut off below 12 Hz, just as my graph shows.

THD is below 4%, and 50 dB quieter than the sweep. My amp isn't even breaking a sweat during that sweep. 2nd Harmonics are also about 50 dB down, so tell me again how they mask the fundamental?

You also ignore dynamic range. Dialog is not as loud as a cannon shot, for instance, so when it is heard, it is not compressed or otherwise distorted, and is played well above the dialog level.
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post #4144 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 11:29 AM
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Arguing with the people who think the term "infrasonic" is a myth is endless. For them to admit that their bank of 10 refrigerator-sized subwoofers, put in place in order to reproduce 10Hz and below at extremely loud levels serves no purpose if one limits one's exposure to reference level playback levels only [and doesn't cheat by pegging the EQ up at 10Hz and below] is something they rarely concede.

Another issue is that hardly any of them [none that I know of] buy special, infrasonic capable measurement mics and instead they really on typical ones such as these:
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Some mics many people use for REW:
ECM-8000 according to marketers:

ECM8000 as measured. 85 of them overlapped:

UMIK-1

. . . These curves show the raw responses of the mics themselves and none of them are adequate at 10Hz or lower, in fact the Umik is "off the chart" bad.
Let's say for argument they use one of these mics, above, and their mic is, let's say, exactly 5 dB down at 10Hz. Let's also assume they have a bank of subwoofers, each the size of a refrigerator, and through a superior calibration system [much more accurate than what they own, with a proper infrasonic capable mic good down to 1Hz or lower] they have a system capable of nearly perfectly flat movie sound reproduction down to 3Hz.

Question: They now own one of the flattest ultra deep bass reproduction systems out there however their calibration mic is only, lets say, "consumer grade". What will their REW response graph show? Answer: It will show their room response is 5dB down at 10 Hz, even though it actually isn't, because their consumer grade mic is flawed and 5dB less sensitive at 10Hz than it is supposed to be [see the manufacturer's response graph above].

So what do they end up doing? Ignorant their measurement system is compromised, they jack up the 10Hz and below EQ so their inaccurate mic will show a flat response at 10Hz and below, yet in truth, if measured with a superior quality mic designed for infrasonic accuracy, such as a pricey B&K Type 4193, they now have a non-flat, 10Hz jacked up response possibly now reaching human hearing threshold with a reference level reproduction playback level, so through their "cheating" system they'll say "10Hz and lower reproduction makes a difference I can detect, even if I limit myself to reference reproduction level playback, and I appreciate it".

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post #4145 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
There are plenty of movies with intended sub 20 Hz content.
Which commercial movie theater in the US shows a measured capability of much lower than 20Hz reproduction? Name one.
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post #4146 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
There are plenty of movies with intended sub 20 Hz content.
Name one where there isn't simultaneously loud content in the non-controversially important 20-30Hz range.

Here's for example the 10Hz content in Edge of Tomorrow I measured electrically [in the digital domain through my DAW], but notice at the exact same time we get this deepest, loudest 10Hz exposure [100% synthetic, computer generated, BTW, i.e. it is an effect which never existed in air and they never recorded it with any mic] there's also loud content at 30Hz:


So what people who experience this with a 10Hz capable system have to prove to me is they aren't keying off the 30 Hz content nor any distortions/ sympathetic vibrations.
[I'd also bet money the person who inserted this 10Hz note didn't hear squat in their mixing room's system other than how the sound of the 30Hz sound was distorted by the doubly large cone excursions their woofs were undergoing through straining to play the 10Hz note.]

When I play my Youtube frequency sweep with my modest SVS sub I hear the bass plummet but at about that same point my dishware starts dancing around frantically to the point I'm scared it could break. Even just a remote sitting on a coffee table could similarly start dancing but this doesn't prove "I can hear 10Hz", it proves my playback environment is causing unintentional sympathetic vibrations.
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post #4147 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 12:42 PM
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BTW, I listened to your YouTube video with my back to the screen, and told my son when the sound stopped. The sound cut off below 12 Hz, just as my graph shows.
Why did you turn your back to the screen? There is no visual indication of what frequency is being played, only verbal.

Since your system, assuming your mic is accurate there, seems to play 12Hz content with a ~10 dB boost compared to how it does 50Hz, you aren't using a flat response playback and therefore your threshold levels can't be directly compared to the threshold curve at the bottom of ISO226:2003, for example:


This is why in my opening statement I was careful to denote [in boldened text below] I was discussing systems without boosted deep bass:
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Under blind conditions using actual movie content, at reference level, equalized for accurate, flat room response below 20Hz, I'd like to see that.
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post #4148 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 02:08 PM
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What are you on about? I said nothing about 10 Hz being as audible as 20 Hz.

You ask me to read your graph, yet you can't read mine? My subs are high-passed at 17 Hz, so you are arguing that I can't hear sound half an octave below my high pass.

I said nothing about "hearing" below 20 Hz, it's about "feeling". When there is thunder, one feels it. One feels the cannons, as well as hears them, in Master and Commander. There are plenty of movies with intended sub 20 Hz content. I can go on and on. BTW, I listened to your YouTube video with my back to the screen, and told my son when the sound stopped. The sound cut off below 12 Hz, just as my graph shows.

THD is below 4%, and 50 dB quieter than the sweep. My amp isn't even breaking a sweat during that sweep. 2nd Harmonics are also about 50 dB down, so tell me again how they mask the fundamental?

You also ignore dynamic range. Dialog is not as loud as a cannon shot, for instance, so when it is heard, it is not compressed or otherwise distorted, and is played well above the dialog level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Name one where there isn't simultaneously loud content in the non-controversially important 20-30Hz range.

Here's for example the 10Hz content in Edge of Tomorrow I measured electrically [in the digital domain through my DAW], but notice at the exact same time we get this deepest, loudest 10Hz exposure [100% synthetic, computer generated, BTW, i.e. it is an effect which never existed in air and they never recorded it with any mic] there's also loud content at 30Hz:


So what people who experience this with a 10Hz capable system have to prove to me is they aren't keying off the 30 Hz content nor any distortions/ sympathetic vibrations.
[I'd also bet money the person who inserted this 10Hz note didn't hear squat in their mixing room's system other than how the sound of the 30Hz sound was distorted by the doubly large cone excursions their woofs were undergoing through straining to play the 10Hz note.]

When I play my Youtube frequency sweep with my modest SVS sub I hear the bass plummet but at about that same point my dishware starts dancing around frantically to the point I'm scared it could break. Even just a remote sitting on a coffee table could similarly start dancing but this doesn't prove "I can hear 10Hz", it proves my playback environment is causing unintentional sympathetic vibrations.
Please take your discussion to it's own thread, to PM or to an existing thread. We are veering off topic in this owner's thread, but it's a good discussion for another thread.
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post #4149 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 06:54 PM
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Please take your discussion to it's own thread, to PM or to an existing thread. We are veering off topic in this owner's thread, but it's a good discussion for another thread.
Agreed! This has pretty near zero correlation with the Marantz SRx012 and related AV Receivers. Yes, they might be able to do it, but hardly an exclusive capability...
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post #4150 of 5306 Old 04-19-2019, 09:45 PM
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Please take your discussion to it's own thread, to PM or to an existing thread. We are veering off topic in this owner's thread, but it's a good discussion for another thread.
Yes, you are entirely correct. I apologize for my part in this. Suffice it to say that the engineers at Marantz deemed it worth the time and effort to update the sub 20 Hz capability, so I'm good with that.
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post #4151 of 5306 Old 04-20-2019, 04:28 AM
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Marantz 7012 AVR to a pair of Marantz 7025 - Dolby Atmos System

Hi All -

Semi confused on the hookup of the two Marantz 7025 AMPs plus some terminology to my Marantz 7012 AVR. I currently run a 7.2.2 and will be adding another set of front Atmos speakers. I just acquired the amps to hopefully infuse some power to the system.

Termonolgy - Balanced vs unbalanced receiver to amp connections. My old system with some accomplished amps and Sony receiver was a piece of cake..

Looking for some suggestions

Samsung 82" Q6 Series QLED |Marantz SR7012 | (2) Marantz MM7025 2 channel AMP | Sony UBP-X700 Utra Blu-Ray | RSL (5) CG23 (2) RSL Speedwoofer wireless (2) RSL CG3 (2) RSL C34E| Lutron Caseta dimmers w/ Hub | Panamax M5300-M | Logitech Harmony Elite Controller |

TRICORN all Black Home theatre 14.6 x 15.2 with 8 Trayed ceiling ....
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post #4152 of 5306 Old 04-20-2019, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlzkaasen View Post
Hi All -

Semi confused on the hookup of the two Marantz 7025 AMPs plus some terminology to my Marantz 7012 AVR. I currently run a 7.2.2 and will be adding another set of front Atmos speakers. I just acquired the amps to hopefully infuse some power to the system.

Termonolgy - Balanced vs unbalanced receiver to amp connections. My old system with some accomplished amps and Sony receiver was a piece of cake..

Looking for some suggestions
The 7012 doesn't use balanced connections so just use the unbalanced inputs (RCA style) on channel 1 (channel 2 is only unbalanced; it could be used instead too). The only way to use the balanced connections with the 7012 us a balanced to RCA adapter (no real point).

There are RCA pre-outs on the back of the 7012 for all channels. To use .4 you'll probably want to amp assign so the mains are powered externally since they are more likely than the other channels to need more power (and I believe the 7012 only allows the choice to power the extra channels externally either with rear height/top or front mains). You can use the second amp with any set you like, but the AVR isn't as smart as the 8500 to let you fully power down another set of channels, but it will still lower the overall load).
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post #4153 of 5306 Old 04-20-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
The 7012 doesn't use balanced connections so just use the unbalanced inputs (RCA style) on channel 1 (channel 2 is only unbalanced; it could be used instead too). The only way to use the balanced connections with the 7012 us a balanced to RCA adapter (no real point).

There are RCA pre-outs on the back of the 7012 for all channels. To use .4 you'll probably want to amp assign so the mains are powered externally since they are more likely than the other channels to need more power (and I believe the 7012 only allows the choice to power the extra channels externally either with rear height/top or front mains). You can use the second amp with any set you like, but the AVR isn't as smart as the 8500 to let you fully power down another set of channels, but it will still lower the overall load).
Actually, neither is the X8500H, rather it simply shunts the signal to the amps while they remain hot.
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post #4154 of 5306 Old 04-20-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlzkaasen View Post
Hi All -

Semi confused on the hookup of the two Marantz 7025 AMPs plus some terminology to my Marantz 7012 AVR. I currently run a 7.2.2 and will be adding another set of front Atmos speakers. I just acquired the amps to hopefully infuse some power to the system.

Termonolgy - Balanced vs unbalanced receiver to amp connections. My old system with some accomplished amps and Sony receiver was a piece of cake..

Looking for some suggestions
The 7025 is more powerful than the SR7012, so you're best served using it to power your Front L/R speakers. The second 7025 is not likely required, but if you want to keep it in the setup, use it to power the Center speaker as the L/C/R speakers will draw the most power. The SR7012 can then power the remaining speakers in the 7.2.4 setup.

Assign Mode: 11.1
Floor
- Layout
: 5ch & SB
Height
– Height Sp
: 4ch
- Layout: Top Front + Top Rear (or Front Height + Rear Height; whichever you prefer using although FH+RH would allow you to use Auro 3D/Auromatic as well)
- Pre-out: Front

Note that the only pre-out that needs to be identified are the 2 speakers that are being externally powered to expand the AVR from 9CH --> 11CH. Beyond that, you can externally power however many more speakers you prefer without having to identify them to the AVR as the pre-outs are always hot.
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post #4155 of 5306 Old 04-20-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The 7025 is more powerful than the SR7012, so you're best served using it to power your Front L/R speakers. The second 7025 is not likely required, but if you want to keep it in the setup, use it to power the Center speaker as the L/C/R speakers will draw the most power. The SR7012 can then power the remaining speakers in the 7.2.4 setup.
Dialog isn't typically all that power hungry, IMO. I suppose some effects use the center, but they usually use the L/R channels far more. What I'd do (and have done already) is use the second amp channels for a dialog lift effect in combination with an active mixer. This requires an external amplifier to work so if one is going to go ahead and use a second amp. why not add a feature while they're at it? (That assumes of course they're not using an audio transparent screen with speakers behind the screen, in which case it isn't needed or useful, but otherwise it's nice).

Dialog Lift Effect (without Center Height):
Pre-out for L/R front to active mixer.
Y-Adapter on Center pre-out and send both to the same active mixer
Pre-out for front height to the same active mixer.
Active Mixer out to the 7025 amp.

The mixer controls would be set in combination with the 7012 speaker levels to give the correct front height level. The L/R and C mixer volume controls are then used to set the "height" of the dialog and/or front channel sound effects to raise them to screen level (typically this would be mid-way up the screen to one's ears, but if more separation is desired, one can set it to be a bit lower (say 25%-35% above the bottom of the screen). Personally, I find the difference to be huge for realism (voices and front effects come from where they are on the screen instead of below it). Without a center height speaker (if used, one would send the center pre-out to an amp (and mixer if separate volume adjustments are needed; with same power it wouldn't likely), the effect does pull slightly for off-center seats, but due to the lower center speaker, it doesn't pull anywhere near as much as stereo does on its own (sitting near the wall, centered dialog sounds maybe 20% left of absolute center and from that vantage angle, it doesn't seem to even matter, IMO. It only reduces the closer one sits to the center and is exactly mid-screen at the MLP.

Thus, here, I use 5-channels on my 7012 and 6-channels on my old Yamaha (being used solely as a 6-channel amplifier; I send it FH + RH + Matrix Front Wides and have a separate 65W Class D amp for Matrixed Rear Wides and the Onkyo processors I have have their own 50W amps for Top Middle connected to them as extracted Pro Logic). Yes, that's 17 speakers (plus the sub) all running from a SR7012 (11.1.6).
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post #4156 of 5306 Old 04-20-2019, 10:17 PM
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Hi,

I have the 7012 but find that the volume too low although its up to 80db.
For blu ray its ok but for streaming services like netflix, the volume's not loud enough.

Any idea? Thanks.
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post #4157 of 5306 Old 04-20-2019, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
For those of you with a sub (or subs) capable of going <20Hz, a recent update to the MultEQ Editor app has now removed the 20Hz roll-off resulting in much more pronounced lower bass response.
Where/how would I see this? I’ve made a copy of the last Audyssey run I did and all the default curves look the same to me (i.e. the roll-off is still there).
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post #4158 of 5306 Old 04-21-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kenkkl View Post
Hi,

I have the 7012 but find that the volume too low although its up to 80db.
For blu ray its ok but for streaming services like netflix, the volume's not loud enough.

Any idea? Thanks.
Turn up the volume?

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post #4159 of 5306 Old 04-21-2019, 01:06 PM
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Where/how would I see this? I’ve made a copy of the last Audyssey run I did and all the default curves look the same to me (i.e. the roll-off is still there).
Either reload the Audyssey EQ to the AVR or run Audyssey again using the app.
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post #4160 of 5306 Old 04-21-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kenkkl View Post
Hi,

I have the 7012 but find that the volume too low although its up to 80db.
For blu ray its ok but for streaming services like netflix, the volume's not loud enough.

Any idea? Thanks.
Generally you should never raise the volume above 80 (to ensure there is still sufficient headroom available; note this is NOT dB though).

If you have run Audyssey then 80 with any source should be quite loud (especially considering the vast majority likely never go below say 65/70 otherwise it would be too loud).
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post #4161 of 5306 Old 04-21-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kenkkl View Post
Hi, I have the 7012 but find that the volume too low although its up to 80db.
Do the letters "dB" actually show on the display screen? If they do that's unfortunate because, as was mentioned above, they are not dBSPL. Instead of using this arbitrary scale I would suggest you go into the menu and switch to the scale which takes you from a low of about -80dB to a high of about +18dB. Once you do this and calibrate with Audyessy then when you say "I'm at volume level -2dB while listening to my disc player" all of us will be able to replicate the situation ourselves and we'll know exactly what you mean.


The current scale you are using is more akin to the alphabet, A-Z, and you are telling us you are at "Q".
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post #4162 of 5306 Old 04-21-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Generally you should never raise the volume above 80 (to ensure there is still sufficient headroom available; note this is NOT dB though).

If you have run Audyssey then 80 with any source should be quite loud (especially considering the vast majority likely never go below say 65/70 otherwise it would be too loud).
80 is the same as ZERO on the dB rated scale. 98dB is the max (+18 on dB) scale so it doesn't really matter which scale he uses as you can still figure the predicted average level if it's Audyssey calibrated knowing that.

The problem (and he's quite correct, IMO) is that many streaming devices/services (e.g. AppleTV 4K) oddly have MUCH lower average output levels than Blu-Rays. I'm running 9-channels (not counting) sub of external amplification in a mere 12x24' room and most Blu-Rays I'm at -10dB to -6dB from reference (Audyssey calibrated). With an AppleTV 4K I'm usually at -6 to 0dB. I've even had to go above 0 once to +2 it was so low. PSB speakers aren't super efficient like Klipsch, but they're not exactly awful either (most are rated 88-93dB rated from bookshelf to towers). Compare that to an iTunes song (even on the same device) and it now needs to be set to like -15 to -20 because "Mastered for iTunes" are COMPRESSED AS HELL (not a good thing even though Apple touts that as a "feature").

Most CDs I have need -15 to -6 (highly variable average levels as they had no standard). Of course, some of us may simply listen at louder levels than others and/or have a different idea what 'loud' is. The better the speaker, the less compressed it is in terms of air movement and the louder you can play it without getting 'ear fatigue' (this is why REALLY loud levels at a real cinema are tolerable while most home systems have to turn it down as it bothers your ears when a tiny speaker is trying to move mass columns of air. The size of the room doesn't matter, IMO. People routinely listen to headphones at levels that are damaging their hearing (>90dB for long periods of time) but they'll listen at 75dB with their speakers in their home theater. With my Carver speakers, I just ordered a larger amp for the ribbons as I was hitting the protection circuit on the Yamaha (170W into 4 Ohms actively bi-amped) (The Carver TFM-35x powering my 10" woofers on them was not having an issue). So I ordered as 2nd TFM-35x, which should increase my gain just over 3dB (and if it was a result of electrolytics caps starting to go bad, even more). That was at about 98dB A-weighted (I wouldn't exactly call it a 'peak' as it was sustained for some time, but rather it was the loudest part of a song that was otherwise in the 85dB range throughout most of it as that song actually had a little bit of dynamic range....not much mind you, but 14dB worth at least not counting bass). Thus, the Caver amp should get the ribbons to at least 101dB if not higher in the higher frequencies and by higher I don't necessarily mean really high as the 48" ribbons cover from 250Hz to 20kHz in one driver; originally they were 125Hz-20kHz, but there was a frequency notch/dip and the active crossover goes above it to eliminate the issue as the 10" woofers are perfectly capable of handling those frequencies instead). But the point is, I wasn't stressing my ears at that level. I could have cranked it higher easily as the Carvers are non-fatiguing and can move huge columns of air with 48" drivers on a 6' tall frame if given enough power (they're rated to like 1500W RMS with the passive crossover at which point they can reach 120dB @ 1 meter supposedly; this will bring them to almost half that bi-amped).

Now as long as you know a given CD or whatever has a lower average level, you can crank up the pre-amp level higher if need be to get the level you need (Marantz goes all the way to +18). The problem that can happen is if you forget to turn it down again afterwards, bad things can possibly happen if you play something much louder (like say blowing a tweeter if you clip big time, even momentarily). This is probably why Marantz places optional limits on how far you can turn up the volume (your kids can blow up your system really fast the same way a driver new to manual transmissions can glaze your clutch real fast.... )

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
80 is the same as ZERO on the dB rated scale. 98dB is the max (+18 on dB) scale so it doesn't really matter which scale he uses as you can still figure the predicted average level if it's Audyssey calibrated knowing that.

The problem (and he's quite correct, IMO) is that many streaming devices/services (e.g. AppleTV 4K) oddly have MUCH lower average output levels than Blu-Rays. I'm running 9-channels (not counting) sub of external amplification in a mere 12x24' room and most Blu-Rays I'm at -10dB to -6dB from reference (Audyssey calibrated). With an AppleTV 4K I'm usually at -6 to 0dB.

Thank you for explaining...



Yes, my scale is set to 80db as reference which is equivalent to 0db. Marantz offers 2 types of scale and I chose the 80db instead of 0 db for reference volume. I'll now refer it to as 0db for everyone's sake as I see it is more common.



I had an experienced where I sat on a remote and the volume max out "almost" damaging my hearing permanently, so now I limit the volume to 0db and I didn't want to remove this. On Apple TV the volume is lower and even at 0db it is sometimes barely audible.



In case anyone wants to know, I've bump up the source level for digital to +5db, so now I am hovering at -10 to -5 db on Apple TV. I'm not sure if this degrades sound quality? But it helps.
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post #4164 of 5306 Old 04-21-2019, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenkkl View Post
Thank you for explaining...



Yes, my scale is set to 80db as reference which is equivalent to 0db. Marantz offers 2 types of scale and I chose the 80db instead of 0 db for reference volume. I'll now refer it to as 0db for everyone's sake as I see it is more common.



I had an experienced where I sat on a remote and the volume max out "almost" damaging my hearing permanently, so now I limit the volume to 0db and I didn't want to remove this. On Apple TV the volume is lower and even at 0db it is sometimes barely audible.



In case anyone wants to know, I've bump up the source level for digital to +5db, so now I am hovering at -10 to -5 db on Apple TV. I'm not sure if this degrades sound quality? But it helps.
Again, it's not 80dB rather it's simply the number 80 on a scale of 1 - 99.
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post #4165 of 5306 Old 04-21-2019, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenkkl View Post
I had an experienced where I sat on a remote and the volume max out "almost" damaging my hearing permanently, so now I limit the volume to 0db and I didn't want to remove this. On Apple TV the volume is lower and even at 0db it is sometimes barely audible.

In case anyone wants to know, I've bump up the source level for digital to +5db, so now I am hovering at -10 to -5 db on Apple TV. I'm not sure if this degrades sound quality? But it helps.
Well, I just watched Raiders of the Lost Ark at reference level (i.e. 0dB) and it wasn't what I'd call 'too loud' here. It actually sounded pretty good at that level (and it had the THX run up at the beginning, which was nice).

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)
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post #4166 of 5306 Old 04-22-2019, 05:15 AM
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I have a question on the 4K setting on the Marantz SR 7012. I switched from Standard to Enhanced and I get oddnthings happening with my Sony X700 UHD BluRay player going through SR7012 to my new BenQ HT3550. The projector searches and sometimes finds the player and may play startup, but the the display stops. I noticed this on 4K BumbleBee, but not on 4K John Wick 2. My apple 4K tv and Xfinity box seem fine with this setting. When I switch to Standard setting on SR7012, all is good on yhe Sony player.

Thoughts? What am I missing on Standard if I am feeding 4k and Dolby Atmos?

Thanks!

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post #4167 of 5306 Old 04-22-2019, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Either reload the Audyssey EQ to the AVR or run Audyssey again using the app.
Just as an interesting follow-up to this...I have two SR7012 systems, one with dual 18" PSA ported subs and one with dual 12" SVS sealed subs. The PSA system showed the subwoofer curve flat all the way out to 20Hz whereas the SVS system still showed the roll-off. I suspect (but can't yet verify since I haven't re-run Audyssey on the SVS system) that the app still offers the rolled-off-below-20Hz-curve if it knows that your subs aren't capable of flat response to 20Hz.
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post #4168 of 5306 Old 04-22-2019, 07:26 AM
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Still learning the app as much as i can so can you tell me how to check that for my system?


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post #4169 of 5306 Old 04-22-2019, 10:31 AM
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Just as an interesting follow-up to this...I have two SR7012 systems, one with dual 18" PSA ported subs and one with dual 12" SVS sealed subs.
I have no interest in the above/below 20Hz debate, but wish to mention how envious I am of your sub setups.
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post #4170 of 5306 Old 04-23-2019, 03:50 AM
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First understand, that prior to doing a microprocessor reset, if you have access to the GENERAL - SAVE & LOAD menu (p. 261 Owner's Manual), you can backup the config file to a USB thumb drive, such that once the AVR is returned to factory default settings, you can then LOAD the saved file.

In some cases, when a single reset did not work, doing several in a row worked. Try doing 3-4 "Network Resets" in a row. If still no joy, do 3-4 "Microprocessor resets" in a row. If yet still no joy, power off the unit, unplug the power cord and leave it set over night and do the resets again the next day. If after all of that, it still is not functioning normally, call Marantz to submit the unit for warranty repair to either the closest authorized repair facility or to the factory repair facility, United Radio, Syracuse, NY.
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately none of the steps worked, nor do I have access to the "SAVE & LOAD" menu. I tried up to 5 or 6 microprocessor resets, to no avail. I'm afraid I'll have to reach out to the reseller and claim my warranty. It is what it is.
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