Marantz receiver plus LG tv: HDMI ARC without HDMI-CEC - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-21-2017, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Marantz receiver plus LG tv: HDMI ARC without HDMI-CEC

I have a Marantz SR7005 receiver, and I just bought an LG OLED65B7P tv. All of my non-4K devices (Roku, Xbox One, etc) go into the receiver HDMI inputs, and the receiver HDMI output goes to the TV. Pretty typical setup. However, since my receiver is not 4k capable, my 4k device (just a PS4 Pro at this time) goes directly into a different input on the tv, bypassing the receiver. I then use ARC to get the PS4 sound back to the receiver (along with the TV's built in smart apps). This works great.

However, I've run into a problem. From what I can tell, when I enable ARC on the TV, it also enables the full HDMI-CEC control ("Simplink"?). I can't seem to separate the two. Also, to enable ARC on the receiver, it simply has an "HDMI Control" option that I enable. That's it. So to use ARC, I have to enable full HDMI-CEC on both devices. The problem I'm having is that once that is all turned on, the TV is not only sending audio to the receiver, but also full control signals, including input switching, and it is setting my receiver input to "TV" no matter what I do. So if I want to use the Roku or the Xbox, for example, I need to use different inputs on the receiver. The TV won't allow that, though, and keeps switching the receiver back to the "TV" input. Even if I then manual change the receiver's input, the tv immediately switches it back to "TV" using the HDMI-CEC controls. Quite frustrating.

Is there a way on the tv to only pass audio back to the receiver, without the controls? Or is there a way on this receiver to only accept an audio signal without the other controls? I've been digging for a bit, but I can't seem to find an answer.
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-21-2017, 01:51 PM
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Yup. Connect an optical cable from the TV --> AVR instead and then you don't have to enable HDMI-CEC.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-21-2017, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Yup. Connect an optical cable from the TV --> AVR instead and then you don't have to enable HDMI-CEC.
Sure, but then I'm limited to low quality audio. :-)
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-21-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jreiter View Post
Sure, but then I'm limited to low quality audio. :-)
ARC and OPT carry the exact same quality audio. A new ARC will soon support lossless audio but I doubt your receiver supports it. The more expensive HDMI splitters capable of generating there own EDID (or passing the EDID from only one connected source) would give you full lossless audio to the receiver and 4K to the TV.

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post #5 of 23 Old 06-21-2017, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jreiter View Post
Sure, but then I'm limited to low quality audio. :-)
Unless you are trying to pass DD+ (Atmos) audio from Netflix (which must go over HDMI), the PCM 2.0 or DD 5.1 audio is the same quality whether going over HDMI or optical.
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-21-2017, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh? Thanks for the info. This is my first time using ARC, so I didn't realize it was not passing the full HDMI audio quality. Thanks for the heads up! That definitely alters my approach. I'm not fond of the idea of fishing an optical cable through my already cramped conduit in the wall, but that might be the best way to go.

Either that, or get a 4k HDR capable receiver... Ugh... :-)
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-11-2017, 04:35 PM
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I have the exact same issue with my 2017 lg oled and my Denon AVR. The issue is really the damm LG TV.

For me it also randomly selects other devices on my hdmi chain connected to the AVR and not the device that initially caused the set to turn on! As far as I can tell this happens when the TV scans for hdmi devices so they can be accessed from the TV. If is very frustrating.

The TV really wants to be the hub and then only connect to the AVR. But this sucks too because then TV then can't display the audio volume and the AVR not being in the video path can display the volume.

I really wish the the LG would allow ARC without other CEC control.

Eventually this will be moot for me when I can get all my 4K streaming from non TV apps, but it is annoying now because I'd much rather have DD+ support.

My older Sony first gen LCD 4K worked fine with CEC and did not switch inputs on the AVR. The Sony also could display the audio volume from the AVR, which I liked because it is not visually clunky like the Denon volume bar.
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-12-2017, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsonnens View Post
I have the exact same issue with my 2017 lg oled and my Denon AVR. The issue is really the damm LG TV.

For me it also randomly selects other devices on my hdmi chain connected to the AVR and not the device that initially caused the set to turn on! As far as I can tell this happens when the TV scans for hdmi devices so they can be accessed from the TV. If is very frustrating.

The TV really wants to be the hub and then only connect to the AVR. But this sucks too because then TV then can't display the audio volume and the AVR not being in the video path can display the volume.

I really wish the the LG would allow ARC without other CEC control.

Eventually this will be moot for me when I can get all my 4K streaming from non TV apps, but it is annoying now because I'd much rather have DD+ support.

My older Sony first gen LCD 4K worked fine with CEC and did not switch inputs on the AVR. The Sony also could display the audio volume from the AVR, which I liked because it is not visually clunky like the Denon volume bar.
I have an LG B7 oled tv and a Marantz SR7005 receiver. No end of hassle with HDMI CEC. Both the tv and the receiver do not allow you to separately enable/disable CEC and ARC. They both lump them together into a single setting. (Called "Simplink" on the tv, and "hdmi control" on the receiver.)

I ended up purchasing a couple of Lindy HDMI CEC filter adapters:
https://www.lindy-usa.com/hdmi-non-c...-mf-41232.html
They are very simple and just remove pin 13 from the connector, which is the pin dedicated to CEC data.

I had to put one on my Roku 3 (which is plugged into the receiver) as it kept telling the receiver to switch to the Roku input for no good reason. That worked great, and the Roku can no longer control the receiver. I also put one between my tv and my receiver, so the tv would stop telling the receiver to switch to the tv input. Unfortunately, filtering out CEC also made ARC stop working, so I had to remove that adapter. All of my 1080p devices are plugged into my receiver, but my 4k devices are plugged directly into the tv. So, I need ARC.

I'm not sure if ARC relies on CEC, or if one of the devices (likely the tv) sees that it can't do CEC, so disables the Simplink feature altogether, which kills ARC. Frustrating either way. It's enough to make me want to upgrade my SR7005 receiver to something that will handle 4k, so I can plug all of my devices back into the receiver. (Although my SR7005 is otherwise perfectly great.) I guess the benefit there is that I wouldn't have to rely on ARC anymore, which only sends lower quality Dolby Digital or DTS audio to the receiver. Having my 4k devices plugged straight into the receiver would at least get my HD audio back.

Or, a cheaper option would be to get an HDMI switcher box, and have *all* of my devices plug into the switcher, which plugs into the tv. Then the receiver would no longer be the video hub, and would just be receiving ARC from the tv and that's it. As long as the hdmi switch has IR support, my Harmony remote can control it, so my wife wouldn't care. The downside being that I'd be using ARC for everything and wouldn't get any HD audio at all.

Last edited by jreiter; 07-12-2017 at 05:41 PM.
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post #9 of 23 Old 01-29-2018, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jreiter View Post
I ended up purchasing a couple of Lindy HDMI CEC filter adapters:
https://www.lindy-usa.com/hdmi-non-c...-mf-41232.html
They are very simple and just remove pin 13 from the connector, which is the pin dedicated to CEC data.
Did anyone tried if that's working on/with LG OLED? This is the very first Korean brand (LG OLED55C7v) that we bought in our life and giving me exactly the same issue. It's not the receiver, it's LG's CEC implementation. We have been using Panasonic for our entire life with Pioneer AVR and I never faced this issue. ARC certainly doesn't work without CEC enabled and I also suspect it's not gonna work if CEC is filtered out. In spite of the amazing picture quality, I started to regrate the decision of choosing LG over Panasonic on this occasion. I have a case open with LG for a week now and they promised to get back to me within three days but I really doubt it.

-San
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post #10 of 23 Old 01-29-2018, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mac_User View Post
Did anyone tried if that's working on/with LG OLED? This is the very first Korean brand (LG OLED55C7v) that we bought in our life and giving me exactly the same issue. It's not the receiver, it's LG's CEC implementation. We have been using Panasonic for our entire life with Pioneer AVR and I never faced this issue. ARC certainly doesn't work without CEC enabled and I also suspect it's not gonna work if CEC is filtered out. In spite of the amazing picture quality, I started to regrate the decision of choosing LG over Panasonic on this occasion. I have a case open with LG for a week now and they promised to get back to me within three days but I really doubt it.

-San
I did. I have an LG B7 OLED. Indeed, with the CEC blocker installed, ARC also fails. So on the LG TVs, at least, ARC requires CEC. It's a very frustrating experience. I got so fed up with CEC (which is an absolutely terrible feature now that I've had to deal with it for months now), that I've purchased the latest Roku with 4k and HDR support. This means I can stop using LG's built-in smart TV features completely, thus I can now fully disable ARC and CEC and all of the annoying issues that come along with it. With ARC/CEC disabled, my receiver no longer magically changes inputs because some idiotic device in my system tells it to, the TV can no longer turn on the receiver for no reason, and things just work as expected with my Harmony remote. So much better.

Last edited by jreiter; 01-29-2018 at 08:57 PM.
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post #11 of 23 Old 01-30-2018, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jreiter View Post
I did. I have an LG B7 OLED. Indeed, with the CEC blocker installed, ARC also fails. So on the LG TVs, at least, ARC requires CEC.
That was my last hope with stupid LG. A beautiful display with crappy s/w - I never regret that much my decision in my entire life before. Every review just talks about the picture quality but not about the crappy s/w they are running. I may eventually follow your way to get a 4k Roku.
thanks for confirming!!
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post #12 of 23 Old 02-14-2018, 12:30 AM
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I'm having the same issues with my Sony receiver (STR-DA1050) and a Samsung 82" (UN82MU8000). ARC is part of CEC, so it's not crappy TV software, it's simply that disabling CEC disables ALL of CEC including ARC. I guess the solution is to bite the bullet and upgrade my receiver.

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post #13 of 23 Old 06-29-2018, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
I'm having the same issues with my Sony receiver (STR-DA1050) and a Samsung 82" (UN82MU8000). ARC is part of CEC, so it's not crappy TV software, it's simply that disabling CEC disables ALL of CEC including ARC. I guess the solution is to bite the bullet and upgrade my receiver.
I am not sure if upgrading the receiver will make a difference. I have an LG OLED C8 and I upgraded to the Marantz SR5012 $K receiver. I have them connected using ARC and my receiver defaults to the media input every time I turn it on using the TV remote. I have to use the receiver remote to switch to the cable/sat input to get the TV picture. If I disconnect the Roku from the receiver then I get a blank screen that says MARANTZ?

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post #14 of 23 Old 06-29-2018, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mac_User View Post
That was my last hope with stupid LG. A beautiful display with crappy s/w - I never regret that much my decision in my entire life before. Every review just talks about the picture quality but not about the crappy s/w they are running. I may eventually follow your way to get a 4k Roku.
thanks for confirming!!
I have LG B7 also. CEC must be turned on for the TV but I have it disabled on the AVR. Stream TV apps with ARC audio just fine, no problems at all. Using Denon AVR X3300.

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post #15 of 23 Old 10-16-2018, 09:37 AM
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I'm going through all of the same problems everyone else is with a LG C8 TV and a Denon AVR-1612 receiver (HDMI 1.4) with ARC and CEC.

I'm considering running an optical cable from the TV to the receiver so I can turn CEC off. My Roku Ultra really should be plugged direct into the TV so it can send 4K HDR content. I believe the optical cable can send the sound back to the receiver in this configuration. My Harmony remote can handle all the setting changes.

Alternatively if I just give up and let the TV be the hub by plugging all devices into it and ARC sound back to the receiver will that solve the CEC fighting? Because the Roku Ultra is always on, it appears to be a bad actor CEC device, but maybe the LG TV could manage it ???

Alternatively would a new receiver such as Yamaha RX-V385 solve the problem since it could pass 4K signals and I could plug everything HDMI into it and then HDMi to the TV? I would still need to ARC or optical cable sound back to the receiver for use when using the TV's streaming apps (TV can do Dolby Vision and ROKU cannot).
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post #16 of 23 Old 10-17-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
I have LG B7 also. CEC must be turned on for the TV but I have it disabled on the AVR. Stream TV apps with ARC audio just fine, no problems at all. Using Denon AVR X3300.
Same thing I did with my Pioneer receiver. I disabled CEC control. Now everything works fine now.

Nice TV, but I absolutely hate LG’s implementation of CEC. It kept switching to “TV”, no matter what input I chose on the receiver.
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post #17 of 23 Old 10-18-2018, 04:22 PM
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^^I wouldn't know about that. I have a Harmony remote and it switches to HDMI2 on the LG when I chose an activity. Only switches to TV when I use the LG Smart Apps.

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post #18 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
I have LG B7 also. CEC must be turned on for the TV but I have it disabled on the AVR. Stream TV apps with ARC audio just fine, no problems at all. Using Denon AVR X3300.
I have an LG C7 and can't get TV apps ARC audio to my Marantz 1608 AVR to work. Unsure how to disable CEC on Marantz.
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post #19 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 05:56 PM
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press setup on Marantz remote
Select Video
Select HDMI Setup
Select HDMI Control
Choose Enter button on remote
Use left or right arrows to select Off
Hit Enter on remote again
Arrow down to ARC
Hit enter on remote
Arrow left or right to select On
Hit Enter on remote

go back to Setup Menu
Select Inputs
Input Assign

Look at the inputs displayed on screen
TV Audio should have an X in the HDMI column

hit Setup button on remote to turn off menu

when you want to use Smart Apps on TV make sure your Marantz is set to TV Audio input.

Also make sure your Marantz HDMI ARC out is connected to HDMI 2 on LG OLED

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post #20 of 23 Old 06-18-2019, 02:33 PM
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I'm going to revive this thread because I want perspective owners to understand that not only is this problem not fixed in LGs 2019 TV lineup but in fact they have made things worse.

2019 TVs like the LG C9/E9 OLEDs have HDMI 2.1 and support the new HDMI eARC feature that is also supported on Denon/Marantz/Yamaha/Pioneer receivers going back in some cases two years.

eARC is specifically designed to cure these CEC headaches from incompetent manufacturers by formally separating CEC and audio. With eARC you can send your HD audio sources hooked up to the TV over HDMI back to the AVR and NOT have idiotic CEC control turned on.

However, LG did not do it that way. LG treated eARC just like legacy ARC and forces HDMI CEC on when eARC is selected on their fancy new high end televisions. Disabling CEC or using an adapter to disable it will break eARC just like it breaks ARC.

LG engineers are incompetent. Don't make the mistake I did (bought 77C9), buy a Sony 2018 or 2019 OLED as their eARC implementation actually works the way it is supposed to.

Someone made a very valid point which is that reviewers never go into this stuff. They will spend 10 mins going on and on about the sound quality of a TV when 90% of us enthusiasts would be horrified to use the built in TV speaker but they won't spend 30 seconds talking about a manufacturer's half baked delivery of these critical integration features.
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post #21 of 23 Old 06-27-2019, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
press setup on Marantz remote
Select Video
Select HDMI Setup
Select HDMI Control
Choose Enter button on remote
Use left or right arrows to select Off
Hit Enter on remote again
Arrow down to ARC
Hit enter on remote
Arrow left or right to select On
Hit Enter on remote

go back to Setup Menu
Select Inputs
Input Assign

Look at the inputs displayed on screen
TV Audio should have an X in the HDMI column

hit Setup button on remote to turn off menu

when you want to use Smart Apps on TV make sure your Marantz is set to TV Audio input.

Also make sure your Marantz HDMI ARC out is connected to HDMI 2 on LG OLED
Thank you so much for posting this, it worked for me! You are
a good example of how even Giant fans can do the right thing (sometimes).
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post #22 of 23 Old 06-27-2019, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I'm going to revive this thread because I want perspective owners to understand that not only is this problem not fixed in LGs 2019 TV lineup but in fact they have made things worse.

2019 TVs like the LG C9/E9 OLEDs have HDMI 2.1 and support the new HDMI eARC feature that is also supported on Denon/Marantz/Yamaha/Pioneer receivers going back in some cases two years.

eARC is specifically designed to cure these CEC headaches from incompetent manufacturers by formally separating CEC and audio. With eARC you can send your HD audio sources hooked up to the TV over HDMI back to the AVR and NOT have idiotic CEC control turned on.

However, LG did not do it that way. LG treated eARC just like legacy ARC and forces HDMI CEC on when eARC is selected on their fancy new high end televisions. Disabling CEC or using an adapter to disable it will break eARC just like it breaks ARC.

LG engineers are incompetent. Don't make the mistake I did (bought 77C9), buy a Sony 2018 or 2019 OLED as their eARC implementation actually works the way it is supposed to.

Someone made a very valid point which is that reviewers never go into this stuff. They will spend 10 mins going on and on about the sound quality of a TV when 90% of us enthusiasts would be horrified to use the built in TV speaker but they won't spend 30 seconds talking about a manufacturer's half baked delivery of these critical integration features.

Here is a link to more complete information on the LG C9 sets and any issues:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ware-more.html

As noted in the link there is also a general LG C9 thread. It would likely more productive to discuss LG OLED TV's on threads related to those products.

Do note that in the link above, some of the issues with eARC in Denon/Marantz products (some 2017 products) are credited to Denon/Marantz.
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post #23 of 23 Old 06-27-2019, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdawg1961 View Post
Thank you so much for posting this, it worked for me! You are
a good example of how even Giant fans can do the right thing (sometimes).
I might be able to do the right thing on occasion but my Giants haven't for 3 seasons now. I'm just hoping they can trade as many veterans as possible by July 31 starting with Bumgarner.

Glad the ARC settings worked for you, I can't even remember how long ago I typed those instructions. Oh, December 2018.

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