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post #5071 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 05:29 AM
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Hello, is there already a solution for the non existing test tone for the sub channel in dirac? i only get a sweep and not a pink noise.
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post #5072 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delija View Post
^
There is no much sense discussing about that without measurements.
There is not much point discussing any aspect of in-room audio without measurements, I agree. But absent measurements we can speculate and perhaps proceed by trial and error, which is all we can do. Unfortunately not everyone has the capability of measuring their room and/or properly interpreting the results, so what should we do in those cases -just give up?.

However, I am sure that this does not apply to Molon, and once his new unit arrives he will be able to provide us with a full set of REW and Dirac graphs which will, hopefully, explain what is going on. Meanwhile, simply moving the listening position around the room while playing bass-heavy content is a reasonable way to determine if MLP is sitting in a null.

There has to be a reason for his 'thin' bass. I do not believe that Dirac Live is causing it as such, or many others would be reporting similar problems and they are not (certainly not in the 'real' Dirac Live thread which has been running for years). However, something is clearly going on within DL if switching DL off restores the bass. It may be a faulty implementation or user error, or who knows what, but fundamentally it cannot be an issue with DL as such. Given that the 758v3 has not exactly been a standard-bearer for Quality Control, it is even possible that the unit itself had a fault. In that case, the issue will just disappear when he installs his new unit.

There must be an explanation and measurements will certainly throw some light on it (assuming they are performed properly of course). It is an interesting problem and one which, I am sure, we will collectively be able to help resolve.
I have no nulls and lost bass impact.

I would like to see if applying Dirac's impulse response adjustments to the main speakers only and not the subs restores my bass impact, but we're not given that option.

By the way, can you point me to the "real Dirac Live thread"? I have searched several times over the last year but concluded that one doesn't yet exist.

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post #5073 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I have no nulls and lost bass impact.

I would like to see if applying Dirac's impulse response adjustments to the main speakers only and not the subs restores my bass impact, but we're not given that option.

By the way, can you point me to the "real Dirac Live thread"? I have searched several times over the last year but concluded that one doesn't yet exist.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-live-box.html
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post #5074 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:14 AM
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I think that Dirac needs to allow the user to restrict impulse corrections to a certain range, just as we can with frequency response. I would like to apply it to my speakers but not my subs. That is what I want to see in version 2.
Given that Dirac 2 is supposed to be modular (modules releasing annually), I'd put it in for a request and perhaps you'll see it (for a fee, I'd assume) in future modules.

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post #5075 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I have no nulls and lost bass impact.

I would like to see if applying Dirac's impulse response adjustments to the main speakers only and not the subs restores my bass impact, but we're not given that option.
Of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of people using Dirac Live (in the other thread) nobody has had this issue and nobody has felt any need to futz with the impulse response measurements/correction. This, to me anyway, points to a problem with the 758v3 rather than with Dirac itself.

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By the way, can you point me to the "real Dirac Live thread"? I have searched several times over the last year but concluded that one doesn't yet exist.
Sure:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-live-box.html

This thread has been going for 4 years. Ostensibly it's a thread about the miniDSP DDRC-88A, but since the only purpose of that unit is to implement Dirac Live, much of the thread is about Dirac itself. There are some very knowledgeable contributors there.
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post #5076 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of people using Dirac Live (in the other thread) nobody has had this issue and nobody has felt any need to futz with the impulse response measurements/correction. This, to me anyway, points to a problem with the 758v3 rather than with Dirac itself.

Always so quick to point fingers at the NAD aren't ya?


There's nothing wrong with Dirac on the T758v3.

It's either their particular unit (unlikely), their measurements when running Dirac (possible), or their expectations of Dirac (most likely)
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post #5077 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryda77 View Post
Hello, is there already a solution for the non existing test tone for the sub channel in dirac? i only get a sweep and not a pink noise.
I’m still waiting for a response from NAD regarding this very issue. I’ll post soon as they reply.

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post #5078 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 09:05 AM
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Always so quick to point fingers at the NAD aren't ya?
I don't think so. It is a fine unit, so long as it works as described, but in this case, if we eliminate Dirac itself, which seems reasonable since the issue has not once been reported in the 4 year old Dirac thread, all that is left is the unit itself -- with the caveats below.

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There's nothing wrong with Dirac on the T758v3.
That isn't what Molon reports. I have known this member for a long time and he knows what he is doing and I have complete confidence in his reports. So I know that if he says his bass is 'thin', it is thin. He says when he switches Dirac out, his bass is no longer thin. If it isn't Dirac, then it is the 758v3 (with the caveats below).

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It's either their particular unit (unlikely),
But a clear prime suspect nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
their measurements when running Dirac (possible),
Possible for a novice user, but Molon has been using Dirac Live long before the 758v3 came along.

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or their expectations of Dirac (most likely)
Well, nobody expects Dirac to make their bass 'thin' so I can't see that as even a possible runner, let alone most likely.
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post #5079 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryda77 View Post
Hello, is there already a solution for the non existing test tone for the sub channel in dirac? i only get a sweep and not a pink noise.
I’m still waiting for a response from NAD regarding this very issue. I’ll post soon as they reply.
Ok, great. I also submitted a ticket regarding the problem.
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post #5080 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I have no nulls and lost bass impact.

I would like to see if applying Dirac's impulse response adjustments to the main speakers only and not the subs restores my bass impact, but we're not given that option.

By the way, can you point me to the "real Dirac Live thread"? I have searched several times over the last year but concluded that one doesn't yet exist.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-live-box.html
That's the thread for another piece of hardware that also runs Dirac, like the NAD. It's not a dedicated Dirac Live thread. It's only a matter of time before someone starts one.

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post #5081 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I have no nulls and lost bass impact.

I would like to see if applying Dirac's impulse response adjustments to the main speakers only and not the subs restores my bass impact, but we're not given that option.
Of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of people using Dirac Live (in the other thread) nobody has had this issue and nobody has felt any need to futz with the impulse response measurements/correction. This, to me anyway, points to a problem with the 758v3 rather than with Dirac itself.
Possible, but my point still stands - give us control of it, just like frequency response. That's the only way I'll know.

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post #5082 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
or their expectations of Dirac (most likely)
Least likely, when expectations don't factor into this at all - in my case, just comparing to my previous setup with Audyssey XT32.

I'm not ready to comdemn the T758 v3 just yet, but I won't have time to fiddle for a while. To be continued...

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post #5083 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 01:06 PM
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Some food for thought concerning T758 V3 and "thin" sounding bass...


Many AVRs use 4th order low pass and 2nd order high pass crossovers which give a slight bump just below the XO and a little more support from the mains below the XO which can could make the bass sound more full. This NAD per an earlier post from Markus uses 4th order low and high pass which sum flat at the XO.



From Markus document on the subject, the XO should be set 1 octave higher from where the mains start to taper off. Makes sense since the XO will cause the mains to drop off 24db 1 octave below the setting. Having tried that the bass was still slightly "thin" sounding. So I tried basing the crossover on the speaker manufacturer's spec vs REW or Dirac measurement to eliminate effect of room gain from consideration. At that point everything sounded as it should. YMMV.


Of course this would not explain why not using dirac would have the desired effect and measurements will be the only way to know what's going on.
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post #5084 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 01:27 PM
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Some food for thought concerning T758 V3 and "thin" sounding bass...


Many AVRs use 4th order low pass and 2nd order high pass crossovers which give a slight bump just below the XO and a little more support from the mains below the XO which can could make the bass sound more full. This NAD per an earlier post from Markus uses 4th order low and high pass which sum flat at the XO.



From Markus document on the subject, the XO should be set 1 octave higher from where the mains start to taper off. Makes sense since the XO will cause the mains to drop off 24db 1 octave below the setting. Having tried that the bass was still slightly "thin" sounding. So I tried basing the crossover on the speaker manufacturer's spec vs REW or Dirac measurement to eliminate effect of room gain from consideration. At that point everything sounded as it should. YMMV.


Of course this would not explain why not using dirac would have the desired effect and measurements will be the only way to know what's going on.
That could explain issues around the crossover - but my observations are mostly well below the crossover. Specifically, I'm not feeling the bass like I used to, or the floor rumble, even at the same or higher SPL than I used before. It's most obvious from 15-60Hz.

My mains go into the lower 50s and I am crossing them at 80 as that gets me the smoothest XO right now.

Also, my curve overall is great - I'm getting more midbass than with Audyssey, simply because I didn't have curve control before.

So what I'm going to do is run another set of measurements, maybe with a different grouping, and see if I get a different result. When I get time. Some other things are changing as well - and I'll reassess again after those changes are made.

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....... Given that the 758v3 has not exactly been a standard-bearer for Quality Control, it is even possible that the unit itself had a fault. In that case, the issue will just disappear when he installs his new unit.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the 758's fault considering Molon was running 2 DDRC-88As at the time.
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post #5086 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 03:20 PM
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That isn't what Molon reports. I have known this member for a long time and he knows what he is doing and I have complete confidence in his reports. So I know that if he says his bass is 'thin', it is thin. He says when he switches Dirac out, his bass is no longer thin. If it isn't Dirac, then it is the 758v3
Keith,

Sorry for the confusion, but I was bassing (get it) the thin comment from my experience with Dirac via the MiniDSP. My NAD 777v3 arrived yesterday but it is still in the box. I hope to get it online some time next week. I also ordered another UMIK-1 so I will be able to provide REW measurements. However, I plan to move the (2) dual 18" boxes near field. With two 24" in the front corners and four 18" directly behind me, thin better not be in my vocabulary in the near future.
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I just hooked my 758 up and tried running Dirac. I get all the way to where you drag and drop the project but when I drop the project into the slot it starts to load a little but then it just hangs and I have to restart the avr. Anyone have any idea what the issue could be? I’m on a Mac. Dirac full version. Ethernet adapter. Thanks.


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post #5089 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:34 PM
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I just hooked my 758 up and tried running Dirac. I get all the way to where you drag and drop the project but when I drop the project into the slot it starts to load a little but then it just hangs and I have to restart the avr. Anyone have any idea what the issue could be? I’m on a Mac. Dirac full version. Ethernet adapter. Thanks.
And all updates have completed?

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post #5090 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:36 PM
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And all updates have completed?


I believe so. BluOS is on 3.0. The T758 is on 2.07

Any other updates?


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I believe so. BluOS is on 3.0. The T758 is on 2.07

Any other updates?


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That a typo?


I think these are the latest versions:


MCU v2.08
DSP v1.10
Video v1.09
BluOS v3.0.0
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post #5092 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:40 PM
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That a typo?


I think these are the latest versions:


MCU v2.08
DSP v1.10
Video v1.09
BluOS v3.0.0


Nope. Here’s a screenshot




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Ho boy, that don't look right at all...


Contact NAD support

Last edited by richardsim7; 10-11-2018 at 06:44 PM.
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post #5094 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:46 PM
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Ho boy, that don't look right at all...


Contact NAD support


I don’t see anywhere to get more up to date firmware either.


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post #5095 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:48 PM
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I don’t see anywhere to get more up to date firmware either.


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I'm assuming "check for upgrade" doesn't show anything useful?


You can try upgrade the firmware in the BluOS part of the menu, but not sure that'll do anything
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post #5096 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 06:56 PM
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I'm assuming "check for upgrade" doesn't show anything useful?


You can try upgrade the firmware in the BluOS part of the menu, but not sure that'll do anything


Right “check for update” says nothing is available. Updating in the BluOS section looks for something on USB


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Just updated mine.

As of now:

v2.08
v1.10
v1.09
v3.0.0

@brian6751 , is your 758 a v3?

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post #5098 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Just updated mine.



As of now:



v2.08

v1.10

v1.09

v3.0.0



@brian6751 , is your 758 a v3?


Yep it’s a V3


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post #5099 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 07:05 PM
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Yeah I'd contact NAD support and see what they say. Chances are they'll tell you to get your dealer to upgrade it via serial (though if you happen to have a USB to serial cable they might send you the software to do it yourself)


Could always try a factory reset as a last resort?
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post #5100 of 9070 Old 10-11-2018, 07:21 PM
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NAD 758 v3

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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
Yeah I'd contact NAD support and see what they say. Chances are they'll tell you to get your dealer to upgrade it via serial (though if you happen to have a USB to serial cable they might send you the software to do it yourself)


Could always try a factory reset as a last resort?


Did factory reset. No change


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