NAD 758 v3 - Page 219 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6541 of 10061 Old 12-29-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CrabRangoon View Post
I’m experiencing lower master volume level after yesterday’s calibration & curious why / what to do about it (if anything).
Sound is fine but we’re tapping into top volume now whereas before we were around -20 to -30 for loud music and -10 to -20 for movies.
Now Netflix is at / near 0 for full sound home theater use. Does this matter (beyond the inability to go louder w/volume button during movies)?
First calibration used OEM mic and Dirac LE for NAD. New calibration used UMIK and Dirac Live (as well as Harman 6db curve).
If you have calibrated for a curve that mainly pulls down peaks (rather than boosting dips), which is good practice, then your overall MV level will be lower simply because the curve is running so many dB lower overall. It doesn't matter though - so long as you can achieve the SPLs you need, why care where the MV is set? True, you lose the absolute 'reference' metric of 0dB on the MV equalling 105dB (115dB for LFE) but so what? If you are hitting your required SPLs cleanly, my advice would be to not worry about where the MV is set.

Of course, there could be other reasons which will need looking at but there is no way to know from the information provided if this is the case or not.
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post #6542 of 10061 Old 12-29-2018, 05:34 PM
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As I attempted to say in a previous post, if any speaker or set of speakers has a lower output level going into the Dirac calibration, the resulting output levels of all speakers will be drawn down by the same amount. This is the primary reason for lower output levels after the calibration has finished, and is easily fixed by ensuring all speakers are at the same level going into the calibration.
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post #6543 of 10061 Old 12-29-2018, 06:45 PM
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So I got the 4K Darbee to work on my 758V3 by going into Roku settings and forcing 1080p...thanks to all who helped. I just sold my Opponent 203 so didn't get a chance to test this with that...does this mean my next BD player must have a "force 1080p" option I'm guessing?

Also, for those wondering about the amplifiers in this receiver pushing difficult speaker loads above I'd like to chime in that I'm using Monitor Audio Silver 300's full range (no sub) which are 3-day large towers with minimum impedance 3.5 Ohm (8 Ohm nominal) and it pushes them beautifully and very loud without breaking a sweat or flattening out the range (and the bass is so much better integrated than any sub I've setup I'm considering never going back to a sub).
Glad you're liking the 758 v3. I use subs because I want a complete, powerful response down to 10Hz, free of any room effects such as dips, peaks, and nulls. That can't be achieved with speakers only [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I have both setups in different houses m...dual subs and no subs (with MUCH better speakers without subs). The setup without subs wins easily for music (jazz, classical, folk, country) due to the fact that an audio engineer already figured out crossover points and and I just position them out from the wall and toed in and get fantastic stereo imaging and usable output to mid-20 Hz...the dual sub setup is nice but I’m constantly fiddling with the levels due to angry neighbors, sleeping children, wife on the phone, etc. The 2 channel setup is very nice for its simplicity...it just works. (course this is the NAD setup so it makes me wonder how much of the fantastic sound of the stereo setup is their sweet amps and Dirac &#x1f61c
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post #6544 of 10061 Old 12-29-2018, 09:44 PM
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I have both setups in different houses m...dual subs and no subs (with MUCH better speakers without subs). The setup without subs wins easily for music (jazz, classical, folk, country) due to the fact that an audio engineer already figured out crossover points and and I just position them out from the wall and toed in and get fantastic stereo imaging and usable output to mid-20 Hz...the dual sub setup is nice but I’m constantly fiddling with the levels due to angry neighbors, sleeping children, wife on the phone, etc. The 2 channel setup is very nice for its simplicity...it just works. (course this is the NAD setup so it makes me wonder how much of the fantastic sound of the stereo setup is their sweet amps and Dirac &#x1f61c
I’m stuck on the first step of Dirac calibration on my 758, selecting the microphone

I’m on macOS and the only microphone selections available are the 758 and the internal microphone. I don’t see the white USB audio at all in the list of options. I feel like I’m missing something obvious, I just can’t figure it out..
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post #6545 of 10061 Old 12-29-2018, 10:07 PM
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As I attempted to say in a previous post, if any speaker or set of speakers has a lower output level going into the Dirac calibration, the resulting output levels of all speakers will be drawn down by the same amount. This is the primary reason for lower output levels after the calibration has finished, and is easily fixed by ensuring all speakers are at the same level going into the calibration.
I wonder if this is why I have lower output levels. I have the “Atmos issue” and can’t get Atmos channels near balanced on calibration. Dirac sets the gain at like +7 to bring it up.

I should have my unit repaired in the coming weeks and will have appropriate levels on those.

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post #6546 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 07:53 AM
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Any opinions about if it as advantageous to use a USB to Ethernet dongle for this device even in absence of connectivity Problems? does it help BluOS and other functions or not necessary? Anybody bought it just because?

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post #6547 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 08:14 AM
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I wonder if this is why I have lower output levels. I have the “Atmos issue” and can’t get Atmos channels near balanced on calibration. Dirac sets the gain at like +7 to bring it up.

I should have my unit repaired in the coming weeks and will have appropriate levels on those.
Have you tried increasing the individual channel level sliders to get the overhead speakers up to the same levels? You might want to try this for the next calibration. Some people don’t care that the output levels end up lower than they are used to, and compensate by using higher master volume levels. For others, the lower levels can be bothersome. Regardless, the lower output levels do not affect the overall sound quality, so it’s a matter of preference.
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post #6548 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I wonder if this is why I have lower output levels. I have the “Atmos issue” and can’t get Atmos channels near balanced on calibration. Dirac sets the gain at like +7 to bring it up.

I should have my unit repaired in the coming weeks and will have appropriate levels on those.
Have you tried increasing the individual channel level sliders to get the overhead speakers up to the same levels? You might want to try this for the next calibration. Some people don’t care that the output levels end up lower than they are used to, and compensate by using higher master volume levels. For others, the lower levels can be bothersome. Regardless, the lower output levels do not affect the overall sound quality, so it’s a matter of preference.
I had to max it and still couldn’t get it to the -12dB center mark. The Atmos issue weakens the output of the preouts on the AM230. Consequently the AVR gain on then Atmos channels was set to +6 or higher dB and they still are too low.

Just got a response from NAD and can get it repaired very soon! I was waiting for all the AM230 bugs to be worked out before getting it repaired

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post #6549 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I had to max it and still couldn’t get it to the -12dB center mark. The Atmos issue weakens the output of the preouts on the AM230. Consequently the AVR gain on then Atmos channels was set to +6 or higher dB and they still are too low.

Just got a response from NAD and can get it repaired very soon! I was waiting for all the AM230 bugs to be worked out before getting it repaired

As markus said, the pre-outs on the AM230 v2 (so to speak) are 6dB louder, and now in line with the on-board pre-outs
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post #6550 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 09:52 AM
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Dirac setup help

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Originally Posted by Shoob View Post
I’m stuck on the first step of Dirac calibration on my 758, selecting the microphone

I’m on macOS and the only microphone selections available are the 758 and the internal microphone. I don’t see the white USB audio at all in the list of options. I feel like I’m missing something obvious, I just can’t figure it out..
First thing is update all the firmware, maybe they fixed some of the connectivity issues and I hear they made the software easier to use with less learning curve. Some people are never able to make it work through the Mac mic input (and have to go through the mic on the receiver). I did finally get my MacBook to see the mic but I had to do something weird like restart my Mac with it plugged in or restart then plug in. Then I couldn't get the test tone levels loud enough for reference without clipping...never did work through the Mac so I had to do it directly to the receiver. Also, make sure receiver and MacBook are on the same network (and one of them is not on a guest network).

Markus767 also sent me the following a while back and it helped immensely.
Follow the steps outlined on the following page and watch the video at the end:
https://nadelectronics.com/dirac-live/

Also read:
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-mic-levels/
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-avr-crossover/

Hope this helps! (let us know if it doesn't...be patient and persistent!)
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post #6551 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 10:40 AM
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I had to max it and still couldn’t get it to the -12dB center mark. The Atmos issue weakens the output of the preouts on the AM230. Consequently the AVR gain on then Atmos channels was set to +6 or higher dB and they still are too low.

Just got a response from NAD and can get it repaired very soon! I was waiting for all the AM230 bugs to be worked out before getting it repaired

As markus said, the pre-outs on the AM230 v2 (so to speak) are 6dB louder, and now in line with the on-board pre-outs
Exactly. Very excited to replace my quiet static card.
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post #6552 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 11:59 AM
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Also read:
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-mic-levels/
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-avr-crossover/

Hope this helps! (let us know if it doesn't...be patient and persistent!)
These are good help, but it just reiterates the on-screen instructions from Dirac. At least it did...I am not sure what v2 says on-screen as I haven't tried it yet.

The second link is the more helpful one.

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post #6553 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 12:50 PM
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Hi guys I have one more question: I just finally picked up my 758 yesterday (speakers come next weekend as basement isn’t ready yet).

I hear a lot of people talking about the MiniDSP 2x4 and the HD model. Should I be looking to get one of these with the NAD or does DIRAC essentially do what the MiniDSP does?

If there is any real benifit that you guys can tell me over and above the 758 and DIRAC that I should add the MiniDSP (or HD) into the chain I am open to it.

Is it useful for subcalibration? Is there any reason to go with the HD?

I am likely getting either a single PC4000 for not or Duel PC2000 if that helps...

Thanks in advance 🙂

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post #6554 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 01:02 PM
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Hi guys I have one more question: I just finally picked up my 758 yesterday (speakers come next weekend as basement isn’t ready yet).

I hear a lot of people talking about the MiniDSP 2x4 and the HD model. Should I be looking to get one of these with the NAD or does DIRAC essentially do what the MiniDSP does?

If there is any real benifit that you guys can tell me over and above the 758 and DIRAC that I should add the MiniDSP (or HD) into the chain I am open to it.

Is it useful for subcalibration? Is there any reason to go with the HD?

I am likely getting either a single PC4000 for not or Duel PC2000 if that helps...

Thanks in advance 🙂
The issue arises when you have multiple subs. Unless the subs are placed equidistant from the MLP, there is a timing alignment issue arising from different distances. The NAD has only one sub output, and can have only one sub delay setting. So, in order to properly time-align multiple subs, an external device such as a MiniDSP 2x4 is required. You would not need a MiniDSP that also has Dirac, just a 2x4 or 2x4HD that allows multiple sub connections, each with its own delay setting. The primary difference between the basic 2x4 and the 2x4HD is that the HD allows for a larger delay setting, whereas the basic 2x4 is limited to 7.5ms per channel.

If you would like to get an idea of what is involved in implementing a 2x4 to align multiple subs, take a look at the guide linked in my sig.
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post #6555 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Hi guys I have one more question: I just finally picked up my 758 yesterday (speakers come next weekend as basement isn’t ready yet).

I hear a lot of people talking about the MiniDSP 2x4 and the HD model. Should I be looking to get one of these with the NAD or does DIRAC essentially do what the MiniDSP does?

If there is any real benifit that you guys can tell me over and above the 758 and DIRAC that I should add the MiniDSP (or HD) into the chain I am open to it.

Is it useful for subcalibration? Is there any reason to go with the HD?

I am likely getting either a single PC4000 for not or Duel PC2000 if that helps...

Thanks in advance 🙂
The issue arises when you have multiple subs. Unless the subs are placed equidistant from the MLP, there is a timing alignment issue arising from different distances. The NAD has only one sub output, and can have only one sub delay setting. So, in order to properly time-align multiple subs, an external device such as a MiniDSP 2x4 is required. You would not need a MiniDSP that also has Dirac, just a 2x4 or 2x4HD that allows multiple sub connections, each with its own delay setting. The primary difference between the basic 2x4 and the 2x4HD is that the HD allows for a larger delay setting, whereas the basic 2x4 is limited to 7.5ms per channel.

If you would like to get an idea of what is involved in implementing a 2x4 to align multiple subs, take a look at the guide linked in my sig.
Thanks for your help! So, one sub I wouldn’t need this but for duels it would help if they aren’t equidistant.

Also would the basic one be ok or the HD for the timing of Duel subs in a smaller room...?

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post #6556 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 02:17 PM
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Thanks for your help! So, one sub I wouldn’t need this but for duels it would help if they aren’t equidistant.

Also would the basic one be ok or the HD for the timing of Duel subs in a smaller room...?
Whether you would need the HD or the simple 2x4 depends on your sub placements. Here is how to determine:

1. Roughly measure the distance for each sub to the MLP (aligned where your ears would be when you sit).
2. Subtract the Distance of the nearest sub from the distance of the furthest sub.
3. Convert the distance difference to milli-seconds. (Distance in inches / Speed of sound) * 1000. Where the speed of sound is 13,512 in/sec.

So 101 inches, or 8.4 feet, will equal 7.5ms. Since the simple 2x4 has a maximum delay setting of 7.5ms, it will accommodate alignment of subs with up to a 8.4 feet distance difference.
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post #6557 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 02:52 PM
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Whether you would need the HD or the simple 2x4 depends on your sub placements. Here is how to determine:

1. Roughly measure the distance for each sub to the MLP (aligned where your ears would be when you sit).
2. Subtract the Distance of the nearest sub from the distance of the furthest sub.
3. Convert the distance difference to milli-seconds. (Distance in inches / Speed of sound) * 1000. Where the speed of sound is 13,512 in/sec.

So 101 inches, or 8.4 feet, will equal 7.5ms. Since the simple 2x4 has a maximum delay setting of 7.5ms, it will accommodate alignment of subs with up to a 8.4 feet distance difference.
I have two profiles..one projector which is at the back of the room and one OLEDs which is on the side, how would i work the dual subs?
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post #6558 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Whether you would need the HD or the simple 2x4 depends on your sub placements. Here is how to determine:

1. Roughly measure the distance for each sub to the MLP (aligned where your ears would be when you sit).
2. Subtract the Distance of the nearest sub from the distance of the furthest sub.
3. Convert the distance difference to milli-seconds. (Distance in inches / Speed of sound) * 1000. Where the speed of sound is 13,512 in/sec.

So 101 inches, or 8.4 feet, will equal 7.5ms. Since the simple 2x4 has a maximum delay setting of 7.5ms, it will accommodate alignment of subs with up to a 8.4 feet distance difference.
Just for interest, Mark Seaton (of Submersive fame) told me that a difference in distance of a couple of feet or so between two subs would be inaudible, so if the OP's subs are not equidistant, but by a factor of a couple of feet, it would seem that the complexity added by the 2x4 may not be required.

My pair of Submersives are equidistant MLP so it isn't an issue for me, but my room was, in part at least, designed around speaker/sub locations and, of course, not everyone has that luxury.
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post #6559 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 03:07 PM
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I have two profiles..one projector which is at the back of the room and one OLEDs which is on the side, how would i work the dual subs?
If you mean you have two different seating locations, it can't be done. One spot can be configured to be optimal, while the other won't be.
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post #6560 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 04:20 PM
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I have two profiles..one projector which is at the back of the room and one OLEDs which is on the side, how would i work the dual subs?
If you mean you have two different seating locations, it can't be done. One spot can be configured to be optimal, while the other won't be.
So the 2x4 is really only meant to make one seat in the room optimal for Duel subs? Is there not anything that makes Duel subs optimal or relatively even throughout the whole room through multiple seating positions (think family or media room) kinda like what Dirac does with all the speakers?

Or is that what the upcoming DIRAC Sub module “may” do? If that’s the case maybe I’ll hold off on the MiniDSP altogether of the DIRAC sub would be superior anyways...
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post #6561 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 04:23 PM
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So the 2x4 is really only meant to make one seat in the room optimal for Duel subs? Is there not anything that makes Duel subs optimal or relatively even throughout the whole room through multiple seating positions (think family or media room) kinda like what Dirac does with all the speakers?

Or is that what the upcoming DIRAC Sub module “may” do? If that’s the case maybe I’ll hold off on the MiniDSP altogether of the DIRAC sub would be superior anyways...
The Multi-sub optimizer is designed to optimize response at multiple positions, and also uses the 2x4 to implement its recommended PEQ filters. You can research MSO if you would like.
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post #6562 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 05:24 PM
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If you mean you have two different seating locations, it can't be done. One spot can be configured to be optimal, while the other won't be.

Well, with a MiniDSP 2x4HD, one could use slot 1 on the MiniDSP + Slot 1 of Dirac for one position, and Slot 2 on both for the 2nd position. But the user would have to switch this themselves
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post #6563 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
Well, with a MiniDSP 2x4HD, one could use slot 1 on the MiniDSP + Slot 1 of Dirac for one position, and Slot 2 on both for the 2nd position. But the user would have to switch this themselves
I am sure you can come up with scenarios that refute what I said, but I am a proponent of keeping things simple. I would never design a viewing or listening environment that had two distinct seating arrangements.
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post #6564 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am sure you can come up with scenarios that refute what I said, but I am a proponent of keeping things simple. I would never design a viewing or listening environment that had two distinct seating arrangements.

Agreed, just putting it out there as an option
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post #6565 of 10061 Old 12-30-2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post
First thing is update all the firmware, maybe they fixed some of the connectivity issues and I hear they made the software easier to use with less learning curve. Some people are never able to make it work through the Mac mic input (and have to go through the mic on the receiver). I did finally get my MacBook to see the mic but I had to do something weird like restart my Mac with it plugged in or restart then plug in. Then I couldn't get the test tone levels loud enough for reference without clipping...never did work through the Mac so I had to do it directly to the receiver. Also, make sure receiver and MacBook are on the same network (and one of them is not on a guest network).

Markus767 also sent me the following a while back and it helped immensely.
Follow the steps outlined on the following page and watch the video at the end:

Hope this helps! (let us know if it doesn't...be patient and persistent!)
Thanks for the tips!

I’ve narrowed the problem down some. I’m using the latest Mojave, 10.14.2, with the white NAD USB mic adapter.

Both Dirac Live 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 only show the 758v3 and the internal microphone as sources, not the USB mic adapter.

I found an old version of Dirac 1 (Dirac Live for NAD 1.2.17 Build 8658) to try. I’m not sure what the last release before Dirac 2 came out is, but this is the only pre-2.0 release I could find. Lo and behold, the 1.2 Dirac shows the USB! So it seems like this might be an issue with Dirac 2?

Has anybody gotten Dirac 2 to work on MacOS with the NAD white USB mic adapter?
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post #6566 of 10061 Old 12-31-2018, 04:37 AM
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I’m about to order a sonos connect for my new 758 to bring the 5.1.4 I’ll be using into the sonos ecosystem that I have in the house.

Is there any reason why that would not be good with DIRAC? Would it pose any issues?

Sony 75Z9D, Samsung 65JS9500
Monitor Audio Gold 200(2), Gold 350, Gold 50(2), Gold CT280-IDC(4). SVS PC4000(2).
NAD 758, Anthem MCA-5
Apple TV 4K, Nvidea Shield. Mac Mini (2018). Samsung UHD BluRay and X-Box One X. 14 Sonos
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post #6567 of 10061 Old 12-31-2018, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I’m about to order a sonos connect for my new 758 to bring the 5.1.4 I’ll be using into the sonos ecosystem that I have in the house.

Is there any reason why that would not be good with DIRAC? Would it pose any issues?
The Sonos "Connect" is just a media streamer, no different than any other source item: Cd, Phono, etc.

Did you mean the Connect:Amp? If so check this:
https://en.community.sonos.com/ask-a...er-nad-6814351

Reality Based.

Last edited by Cattledog; 12-31-2018 at 05:27 AM.
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post #6568 of 10061 Old 12-31-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I’m about to order a sonos connect for my new 758 to bring the 5.1.4 I’ll be using into the sonos ecosystem that I have in the house.

Is there any reason why that would not be good with DIRAC? Would it pose any issues?
Like @Cattledog says, it is just another streamer. It has digital outputs (coax and Toslink), so it passes the digital stream to the NAD DAC’s. I have been using Sonos for several years, and I subscribe to Deezer which, like Tidal, streams music in lossless FLAC. I also use Sonos to stream music files from my NAS, which were ripped to Apple lossless format. I am primarily a music listener, and streaming lossless content through the Sonos Connect provides a very pleasing audio quality with Dirac Live. And the Sonos controller app is very nice. I think you will enjoy your purchase.
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post #6569 of 10061 Old 12-31-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am sure you can come up with scenarios that refute what I said, but I am a proponent of keeping things simple. I would never design a viewing or listening environment that had two distinct seating arrangements.

Nor me. I don't even understand it. If the LCR speakers are in the right place for the PJ, how can they also be in the right place for the TV, which, AIUI, is 90 degrees rotated?
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post #6570 of 10061 Old 12-31-2018, 12:11 PM
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I ran Dirac for the first time and for my surrounds have this result. I don't have full Dirac yet, but my right surrounds drops off dramatically at about 1K Hz. Anyone have any thoughts as to why this might be?

Thanks
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Living room: Panasonic ST-P55ST50; Pioneer elite sc-501; Front L&R B&W CMW 7.3, Center B&W CMW 7.4 (all 4 ohm); sub B&W ASW 610
Basement: Vizio P55-F1; NAD 758 v3; Front L&R KEF Q100s, Center KEF Q200c, rear surrounds KEF Q100s; Atmos KEF Q50s; sub KEF Kube 10b
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