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post #7201 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Does anyone know if we can load the Dirac full version (paid) on more then one computer/Mac? I have my wife’s laptop but it’s a work computer and I also have two macs (a mini and an iMac) and wanted to play around with them and not sure which one I will do the proper final calibration but don’t want to be tied to the wrong computer if I decide that it isn’t ideal to do the final one...

Yes you can install/use it on 2 computers simultaneously, but you can always de-activate it via your account and install on a new machine
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post #7202 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TabCam View Post
The Kii Three are a special breed of speakers. There should be almost no room interference when properly set up and use a digitally cross over. They need little correction if any at all. For movies the time coherence helps to create a nice “in movie” bubble.

2) For stereo I would use the Kii Control over the NAD 758 anyway except if you use the BlueSound streaming abilities. I do not know if you can use the Kii Threes as end node, I highly doubt it. Even if you use the NAD as a pre-amp, I would just select audio direct mode.

Btw, which measuring microphone did you use? There is a big difference between the included ‘hockey pucks’ and a professional microphone like a Umik-1. Ok, it costs more but you get a lot more sensitive microphone befitting the Kii Threes. And why not the M17v2? That way you can use the balanced out to the Kii’s.


.
Thanks for the feedback!
The M17 V2 would of course be a better alternative, but it's a matter of cost. It's 5 times the price I payed for the T758 V3 in Sweden , and since I can (and do) feed my Kiis with untreated digital signals to the kii control for all stereo listening, the only upside would be the balanced signals for the movie watching, and that simply can't motivate the added cost for me.

As you said, when I feed them digital signal directly from my CA BD752 (which also work as a streamer for digital files on my server) It's not an issue.



I used the "hockey puck" mic that came with the T758, and I will definitely invest in a better microphone as the next step in improving my set up. Umik-1 is what I have in mind.



Not sure what you mean by "end node". Today I have turned off any corrections for stereo listening from the T758 when listening to stereo (Spotify connect or vinyl records) and it works well.
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post #7203 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 02:41 PM
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Hey All,

Wanted some feedback, my setup is as follows:

NAD T758v3
B&W 683 Fronts
B&W HTM61 Center
B&W 685 Surrounds
B&W ASW610XP Sub
KEF Q50a Atmos Speakers

I am thinking about adding an amplifier to my setup and wanted to get some feedback if it is really necessary with the T758. I have heard traditionally the 683s are hard to drive, and am wondering if I am really getting the full benefit out of my setup. My caveat is that I live in an apartment in NYC, so while I do have a good amount of space, I am not blaring my volume, although I do listen at fairly loud volumes. Does anyone have any feedback or opinions on this?
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post #7204 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsurara View Post
Hey All,

Wanted some feedback, my setup is as follows:

NAD T758v3
B&W 683 Fronts
B&W HTM61 Center
B&W 685 Surrounds
B&W ASW610XP Sub
KEF Q50a Atmos Speakers

I am thinking about adding an amplifier to my setup and wanted to get some feedback if it is really necessary with the T758. I have heard traditionally the 683s are hard to drive, and am wondering if I am really getting the full benefit out of my setup. My caveat is that I live in an apartment in NYC, so while I do have a good amount of space, I am not blaring my volume, although I do listen at fairly loud volumes. Does anyone have any feedback or opinions on this?
683’s are daily efficient at 90db so unless you’re looking for ear bleeding levels I would think the 758 is providing more than enough power for you bud!
Hope this helps
Carmine.
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post #7205 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 03:09 PM
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Im running FL/FR B&W CM10s on my NAD 758 v3 without any problems. On the contrary, Dirac is taking care of my less-than-optimal room architecture and the sound projection is brilliant. Just watching TV at -35dB. I haven't even been close to maxing the amps out...
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post #7206 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post
683’s are daily efficient at 90db so unless you’re looking for ear bleeding levels I would think the 758 is providing more than enough power for you bud!
Hope this helps
Carmine.
Thank you carminepesce and m4tt0, appreciate it! Saved me some money there so I owe you both.

I am definitely not using them at ear bleeding levels... much to my neighbors delight, ha ha.
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post #7207 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsurara View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post
683’s are daily efficient at 90db so unless you’re looking for ear bleeding levels I would think the 758 is providing more than enough power for you bud!
Hope this helps
Carmine.
Thank you carminepesce and m4tt0, appreciate it! Saved me some money there so I owe you both.

I am definitely not using them at ear bleeding levels... much to my neighbors delight, ha ha.
Sorry my original post was supposed to say “very efficient” don’t know where “daily” came from lol!!! Anyway, I’m living in a fairly small apartment here in AZ & my system gets very loud without any signs of stress on the NAD. Barely even gets warm so I’d say it’ll be quite capable of driving your B&W’s to real nice levels bud!!! It’s an awesome unit & like m4 stated, Dirac is just amazing!!!
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post #7208 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 10:12 PM
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Anyone know whether the Dirac upgrade license is transferable?

I bought one during the holiday sale, but never activated it or entered it anywhere.

I have decided I won’t be buying a 758v3 at present.

So I have an unused license and am hoping I can find it a good home. But am not sure how or whether that works.
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post #7209 of 9728 Old 01-29-2019, 10:14 PM
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NAD 758 v3

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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Anyone know whether the Dirac upgrade license is transferable?



I bought one during the holiday sale, but never activated it or entered it anywhere.



I have decided I won’t be buying a 758v3 at present.



So I have an unused license and am hoping I can find it a good home. But am not sure how or whether that works.


EDIT: If it is transferable would like you to pm me.


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post #7210 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 03:26 AM
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Probably not officially, but I'd say PM each other and try figure it out
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post #7211 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsurara View Post
Hey All,

Wanted some feedback, my setup is as follows:

NAD T758v3
B&W 683 Fronts
B&W HTM61 Center
B&W 685 Surrounds
B&W ASW610XP Sub
KEF Q50a Atmos Speakers

I am thinking about adding an amplifier to my setup and wanted to get some feedback if it is really necessary with the T758. I have heard traditionally the 683s are hard to drive, and am wondering if I am really getting the full benefit out of my setup. My caveat is that I live in an apartment in NYC, so while I do have a good amount of space, I am not blaring my volume, although I do listen at fairly loud volumes. Does anyone have any feedback or opinions on this?

You DO need external amp (at least 2 channels) if you want 9.2 or 4 channels for 11.2 surround. NAD has only 7 internal amps. Plus, note that if you use external amps to drive your fronts, you can´t assign the internal amps to other channels.
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post #7212 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Steffo View Post
So I bought a T758 V3 and replaced my HK AVR460.
After following the steps of setting up and going through the Dirac room measurements twice, the result is a bit wierd.
Bass is extreemely low compared to before, but in 5.1 mode I get a pretty decent "in the movie" feeling. I might be able to tweak the bass by working with the filters, so I'll leave that open.

When running only the front speakers however, the previously fantastic stereo image (I have a pair of Kii Three as fronts) is completely ruined. Smeared, close to the left speaker, and all clarity of all frequencys are ruined. I deleated all data and redid all the measurements and filters and tried again, but the result is the same.
All speakers distances and volume levels were correct and tuned in before starting the measurements.


So two questions again:
1, Any ideas of what might be wrong? The Kii Three have their own DSP magic done to correct for positioning and room. Can it be that this is the problem? If so I must be able to exclude them from the filtering.

2, Is there any way to exclude the two front speakers from being affected by Dirac and still have them connected on the pre outs? I mean, can I remove the filters from the two front speakers before exporting the Dirac filters to the NAD 758?
I reported the same issue in stereo mode a few pages back, and I have an open request with NAD... I suggest you report the issue as well.

After detailing the precision of my measurements and describing the problem, their solution- so far- is to tell me to follow the guide and center the first measurement. Not at all helpful. So I sent them the following:

"Thank you... I have been using the guide you attached, and that is definitely not the problem.

Please re-read my first post and then carefully read my post below. ..

Bottom line, Dirac is never able to match the calculated impulse response to the measured center listening position, NO MATTER WHERE THE CENTER POSITION IS MEASURED. The "listening center" that is calculated by Dirac is always ~4" to the left of where the mic was actually located for the first position measurement (caps for emphasis... not because I'm angry 😁)

I have verified that the microphone is absolutely centered both acoustically (using omnimic impulse response and measured stereo frequency response summing) and via a laser distance measuring device with every single run. I can say with certainty that my first measuring position is not the problem.

I can perfectly center the mic as validated above, do a single position calibration (never moving the microphone through setup, calibration, and testing) and the following will happen:

With Dirac calibration turned off, the test sweeps in Omni mic (impulse and frequency response summing) show a unified arrival time, and the image is centered between the speakers. Turning on the Dirac calibration (made in the EXACT same mic position) results in the center image moving to the left, and the impulse response of the left speaker now arriving AFTER the right speaker with Dirac turned on. The frequency response no longer sums in stereo, which confirms the problem.

If I move the Omnimic microphone ~4" to the left, the impulse response is once again in sync between the left and right speakers, and the frequency response shows proper stereo summing. Listening with a 4" offset to Left creates a center image that is now straight ahead (though offset by 4 inches between the speakers).

This problem is so predictable that I used my laser measuring tool and Omni mic to deliberately position the Dirac mic the same ~4" offset to right for the first run, and got proper summing in the Real center position between the speakers.

It is predictable and repeatable whether I do this with one measured position or all 9. I've completed multiple factory resets on the receiver, removed and redownloaded Dirac on my PC, and completed nearly a dozen calibrations with new measurements... all with the exact same problem.

I am happy to provide you with photos/video and screen shots if that would be helpful."

I’ll let you know what they come back with...
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post #7213 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsurara View Post
Hey All,

Wanted some feedback, my setup is as follows:

NAD T758v3
B&W 683 Fronts
B&W HTM61 Center
B&W 685 Surrounds
B&W ASW610XP Sub
KEF Q50a Atmos Speakers

I am thinking about adding an amplifier to my setup and wanted to get some feedback if it is really necessary with the T758. I have heard traditionally the 683s are hard to drive, and am wondering if I am really getting the full benefit out of my setup. My caveat is that I live in an apartment in NYC, so while I do have a good amount of space, I am not blaring my volume, although I do listen at fairly loud volumes. Does anyone have any feedback or opinions on this?
I found a great 6 channel Rotel 976 zone amp on eBay for like $175 (a steal). I had to buy a power button cover but it puts out 60W per channel and now I only need a 5 channel to go full separates (if I felt the need)

NAD 758 v3 with Dirac 7.4.4 + Rotel 976 + Panamax M5300-PM
Paradigm Prestige 75F's + 55C; 8x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
DIY MBMs: VRK Build thread + 2x Rotel 981 (bridged)
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post #7214 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Steffo View Post
Thanks for the feedback!
The M17 V2 would of course be a better alternative, but it's a matter of cost. It's 5 times the price I payed for the T758 V3 in Sweden , and since I can (and do) feed my Kiis with untreated digital signals to the kii control for all stereo listening, the only upside would be the balanced signals for the movie watching, and that simply can't motivate the added cost for me.

As you said, when I feed them digital signal directly from my CA BD752 (which also work as a streamer for digital files on my server) It's not an issue.

I used the "hockey puck" mic that came with the T758, and I will definitely invest in a better microphone as the next step in improving my set up. Umik-1 is what I have in mind.

Not sure what you mean by "end node". Today I have turned off any corrections for stereo listening from the T758 when listening to stereo (Spotify connect or vinyl records) and it works well.
You’re welcome, glad to be of help. The “end node” is any speaker BluOS allows you to send streams to. Most will probably not have a multi-room setup but it would have been nice if you can send the data digitally to the Kii Control.

I also have a question for you, with what other speakers have you combined the Kii Threes in the HT setup? I am considering full range speakers and the Kiis are on my short list

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post #7215 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 06:32 PM
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Can you guys tell me if and how you can get to 7.1.4 with this unit? Thanks all.


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post #7216 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 06:33 PM
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Can you guys tell me if and how you can get to 7.1.4 with this unit? Thanks all.


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It has 7 on-board amplifiers, you need at least 4 channels of external amplification (using the RCA pre-outs) for 7.1.4
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post #7217 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 06:54 PM
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Well, noticed the “Atmos static” on mine a couple of days ago and dropped it off at the local authorized service center today for replacement of the am230 - just on the nick of time too since I only had a 1 year warranty on my factory refurbished unit. Excellent service with NAD and Safeandsound. I’m very impressed. Already missing the 758 as we are having to watch the evening stuff on our little tv instead of in the theater.
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post #7218 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
It has 7 on-board amplifiers, you need at least 4 channels of external amplification (using the RCA pre-outs) for 7.1.4


Thank you. So if I wanted to run the 4 Atmos off the on board amplifier only, I can run the 7.1 off of outboard amps? I’ll check out the manual as well. Thanks very much!


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post #7219 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 08:13 PM
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Thank you. So if I wanted to run the 4 Atmos off the on board amplifier only, I can run the 7.1 off of outboard amps? I’ll check out the manual as well. Thanks very much!

Unfortunately it's not that simple, you can only reassign one pair of the amps on the AVR (ch6+7) so you can only run one pair of Atmos speakers from the AVR's internal amps


What I do is use a 7 channel power amp, my LCR + Atmos are powered by that, and my 4 surrounds are powered by the AVR
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NAD 758 v3

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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
Unfortunately it's not that simple, you can only reassign one pair of the amps on the AVR (ch6+7) so you can only run one pair of Atmos speakers from the AVR's internal amps


What I do is use a 7 channel power amp, my LCR + Atmos are powered by that, and my 4 surrounds are powered by the AVR


Ok. So if I’m reading this right, I can run all of the 7.1.4 off the preamp outputs and nothing off the amp? That’s really what I’m looking to do with this, run it as a PrePro. Or, is the only way to get 7.1.4 the way you described? The manual really isn’t very helpful this way. I appreciate the help.

In a 7.1.4 12 speaker setup, regardless of how, will Dirac process all 11 speakers and one sub?

Again thank you. @richardsim7 im I appreciate your patience and explanations.


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post #7221 of 9728 Old 01-30-2019, 08:57 PM
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Ok. So if I’m reading this right, I can run all of the 7.1.4 off the preamp outputs and nothing off the amp? That’s really what I’m looking to do with this, run it as a PrePro. Or, is the only way to get 7.1.4 the way you described? The manual really isn’t very helpful this way. I appreciate the help.

In a 7.1.4 12 speaker setup, regardless of how, will Dirac process all 11 speakers and one sub?

Again thank you. @richardsim7 im I appreciate your patience and explanations.

I mean yes, all the pre-outs are active all the time, so you could use it as a pre-pro. Or you can use the AVR's internal amps for the base layer 7 channels (or base layer 5 channels + 2 atmos)


And yes, Dirac will be applied to all 12 channels no matter whether you use onboard or outboard amps
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post #7222 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TabCam View Post
You’re welcome, glad to be of help. The “end node” is any speaker BluOS allows you to send streams to. Most will probably not have a multi-room setup but it would have been nice if you can send the data digitally to the Kii Control.

I also have a question for you, with what other speakers have you combined the Kii Threes in the HT setup? I am considering full range speakers and the Kiis are on my short list

Thanks. No , the Kii Three are not compatible as end node in that sense. The Kii control needs USB, coax or optical digital signals, and the Kii Three speakers have either cat5/cat6 cable imput from the Kii Control, or normal balanced (or unbalanced) analog input via XLR. No wireless inputs.




I use the analog inputs when running 5.1 and digital when listening to CD, vinyl or basically any other 2-ch stereo (except when using the T758 as Spotify connect source.


I have a set up of 19 years old Infinity Alpha center, and surrounds. Maybe I should replace them some time, but they are still good condition and work very well in 5.1 setup. Since the Kii Three is neutral and uncolored, they seem to work very well together with other "neutral" speakers. WIth Dirac, the system came together as "one unit" in a way that even the full Infinity Alpha (before I bought the Kii I had the Alpha 50 as fronts) never came close to.


To be frank, I think that it's less important to have perfectly matched speakers (even OK with unmatched front and center) than I have been led to believe, especially when using a proper room correction like Dirac.
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post #7223 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 07:02 AM
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Bickering posts removed and infractions issued. Please lets keep this thread civil.
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOHTech View Post
Thank you. So if I wanted to run the 4 Atmos off the on board amplifier only, I can run the 7.1 off of outboard amps? I’ll check out the manual as well. Thanks very much!

Unfortunately it's not that simple, you can only reassign one pair of the amps on the AVR (ch6+7) so you can only run one pair of Atmos speakers from the AVR's internal amps


What I do is use a 7 channel power amp, my LCR + Atmos are powered by that, and my 4 surrounds are powered by the AVR
I use a 5 channel amp and plan on running one overhead pair and the LCR from that and the other pair of overheads and side surrounds from the AVR.

In a perfect world I would love to power the LCR and surrounds with the amp and use the AVR only for atmos but NAD 758 doesn’t give this ability 😞
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post #7225 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 09:54 AM
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What are the reasons for buying the T777 over the T758?
I don't need more than 3 HDMI
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post #7226 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 10:02 AM
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What are the reasons for buying the T777 over the T758?
I don't need more than 3 HDMI

Then you've run out of reasons
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post #7227 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 10:17 AM
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Bickering posts removed and infractions issued. Please lets keep this thread civil.
+1

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post #7228 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 11:32 AM
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I'm a potential buyer
I've been watching a video on Youtube on the setup of Dirac
At some point you have to match the input gain and the output volume
What happens if you don't get this part just right?
I'm more a plug and play kind of guy
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post #7229 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jake51 View Post
I'm a potential buyer
I've been watching a video on Youtube on the setup of Dirac
At some point you have to match the input gain and the output volume
What happens if you don't get this part just right?
I'm more a plug and play kind of guy

It's not as hard as it sounds, and in Dirac 2 there's a visual guide to help. It's as simple as: make sure signal hits the green part, not the red part


If you get it wrong you'll either get a message saying "signal too loud" or "signal too quiet"
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post #7230 of 9728 Old 01-31-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
I mean yes, all the pre-outs are active all the time, so you could use it as a pre-pro. Or you can use the AVR's internal amps for the base layer 7 channels (or base layer 5 channels + 2 atmos)


And yes, Dirac will be applied to all 12 channels no matter whether you use onboard or outboard amps


Thanks Richard. Call NAD and make sure you get 10% commission

I’ve asked them when and if the DTS:X is coming. Nothing in response yet. Thats a big deal, but based on someone’s post here it sounds like it’s coming soon. Not sure how they didn’t get it initially but whatev.




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